Nissan Leaf Electric Car

[Ermintruder]

but more the explosion thing.

Exactly. I'm so concerned about the risk from this, I would go as far as to say that speeds of battery-powered vehicles will have to be limited to sub-50mph and/or compulsory direction control provided by automated means only so as to maintain safe deconfliction from other vehicles and obstacles.

I am being 100% serious.

In a carbon-fuels car, although the fuel tank is aft of the engine-bay firewall, it is NOT running the entire width/length underpan of the vehicle. This is the standard morphology of all electric vehicles.

Think of sitting upon a giant jam sandwich of plastic binary explosive.

High-energy kinetic impacts from any direction (front:rear, or lateral) could result in distortion of battery arrays, such that internal short-circuits could occur (causing localised mini-explosions in cells, followed sub-seconds later by the entire battery substrate igniting and exploding).

To prevent this, there either has to be mandatory directional/detectional auto-control, or genuine sub-compartment impact protection (via exaggerated crumple absorbtion zones &/or multiaxial strengthening members provided during design process and manufacture).

I sadly believe this is one of tomorrow's ticking timebombs. Give me a lovely, safe inert diesel engine any day.

Diesel is perfect for multi-vehicle impact crashes and non-explosive/non-autoignited consequences. In a diesel vehicle roll/tumble/crumple/crush incident, all you have to worry about is the kinetics and mechnical impact/blunt force trauma/compression. You will NOT burn to death.

In a high-speed electrical vehicle impact, you will OFTEN have a fire under any medium/high speed impact instances, followed by explosion.

Unless there is lots of: directional speed/direction control and/or sensing (up to aerospace standards of compliance); additional structural content added, significantly-reducing range and consequent viability.

To say otherwise is to ignore physics, chemistry and common-sense.

 

[mikfez]

....On the plus side there's no VED....

We can be absolutely certain that will not last long.

INT21.

Absolutely and how long will the £4,500 government incentive last?
Will the number of chargers keep pace with the number of cars? I doubt it.

 

[Coal]

Exactly. I'm so concerned about the risk from this, I would go as far as to say that speeds of battery-powered vehicles will have to be limited to sub-50mph and/or compulsory direction control provided by automated means only so as to maintain safe deconfliction from other vehicles and obstacles.

I am being 100% serious.

In a carbon-fuels car, although the fuel tank is aft of the engine-bay firewall, it is NOT running the entire width/length underpan of the vehicle. This is the standard morphology of all electric vehicles.

Think of sitting upon a giant jam sandwich of plastic binary explosive.

High-energy kinetic impacts from any direction (front:rear, or lateral) could result in distortion of battery arrays, such that internal short-circuits could occur (causing localised mini-explosions in cells, followed sub-seconds later by the entire battery substrate igniting and exploding).

To prevent this, there either has to be mandatory directional/detectional auto-control, or genuine sub-compartment impact protection (via exaggerated crumple absorbtion zones &/or multiaxial strengthening members provided during design process and manufacture).

I sadly believe this is one of tomorrow's ticking timebombs. Give me a lovely, safe inert diesel engine any day.

Diesel is perfect for multi-vehicle impact crashes and non-explosive/non-autoignited consequences. In a diesel vehicle roll/tumble/crumple/crush incident, all you have to worry about is the kinetics and mechnical impact/blunt force trauma/compression. You will NOT burn to death.

In a high-speed electrical vehicle impact, you will OFTEN have a fire under any medium/high speed impact instances, followed by explosion.

Unless there is lots of: directional speed/direction control and/or sensing (up to aerospace standards of compliance); additional structural content added, significantly-reducing range and consequent viability.

To say otherwise is to ignore physics, chemistry and common-sense.

What @Ermintruder says. It turns out that :BS: doesn't work on physics however hard you try.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Exactly. I'm so concerned about the risk from this, I would go as far as to say that speeds of battery-powered vehicles will have to be limited to sub-50mph and/or compulsory direction control provided by automated means only so as to maintain safe deconfliction from other vehicles and obstacles.

I am being 100% serious.

In a carbon-fuels car, although the fuel tank is aft of the engine-bay firewall, it is NOT running the entire width/length underpan of the vehicle. This is the standard morphology of all electric vehicles.

Think of sitting upon a giant jam sandwich of plastic binary explosive.

High-energy kinetic impacts from any direction (front:rear, or lateral) could result in distortion of battery arrays, such that internal short-circuits could occur (causing localised mini-explosions in cells, followed sub-seconds later by the entire battery substrate igniting and exploding).

To prevent this, there either has to be mandatory directional/detectional auto-control, or genuine sub-compartment impact protection (via exaggerated crumple absorbtion zones &/or multiaxial strengthening members provided during design process and manufacture).

I sadly believe this is one of tomorrow's ticking timebombs. Give me a lovely, safe inert diesel engine any day.

Diesel is perfect for multi-vehicle impact crashes and non-explosive/non-autoignited consequences. In a diesel vehicle roll/tumble/crumple/crush incident, all you have to worry about is the kinetics and mechnical impact/blunt force trauma/compression. You will NOT burn to death.

In a high-speed electrical vehicle impact, you will OFTEN have a fire under any medium/high speed impact instances, followed by explosion.

Unless there is lots of: directional speed/direction control and/or sensing (up to aerospace standards of compliance); additional structural content added, significantly-reducing range and consequent viability.

To say otherwise is to ignore physics, chemistry and common-sense.

Yep. Diesel is probably the safest fuel. One of the reasons why I bought one.

 

[RaM]

We have a Diesel it has averaged 69 mpg over the 9 years we have had it
about £800 in fuel each year £20 road tax rarely do trips of less than 20 miles
If we had to replace the battery after say 10 years on the lecy it would not be
much cheaper to run plus we would have to buy the car. For us it does not make
sense but if you live in town and change your car regularly it may do, the
Prius seems to be very popular with local taxi firms so hybred must work for them.

 

[Coal]

We have a Diesel it has averaged 69 mpg over the 9 years we have had it

I've got a oldish diesel BMW 1-Series, 160,000 miles. Heathrow and back (for eldest Coalette) @ 56mpg. Averages 50mpg around the place.

 

[INT21]

RaM,

..£20 road tax..

What car do you have ?

My 1500cc Citroen Saxo Diesel has just gone up from £145 to £150 per year.

INT21

 

[Mythopoeika]

I normally pay about £35 a year for my Citroen Nemo 1.4 litre diesel.
I have a feeling that's about to go up.

 

[RaM]

RaM,

..£20 road tax..

What car do you have ?

My 1500cc Citroen Saxo Diesel has just gone up from £145 to £150 per year.

INT21

It's a Clio DCi 1.5 80 it's always been £20 due to it's low c02 this did
not change after the last budget.

 

[INT21]

I have recently been watching some of the videos posted on YouTube by 'Electric Vehicle Man'.

They are very instructive and appear to give an unbiased critique of electric cars. He runs a Leaf himself, and his accounts of the problems when doing long trips is quite instructive. and he's a Yorkshire lad, so no bull.

I would strongly recommend people look him up.

What stands out most is that it is not the car that is the problem, it is the charging infrastructure. Even silly things like people parking their non electric cars in the charging bays thereby preventing cars from being charged. And arriving low on battery to find the charger doesn't work.

And one thing I gave much thought to is that it is alright having a few charge points in service stations etc, but the charge usually takes about half an hour.
Come the day when the majority of cars are electric, and assuming the same number of cars pull into the stations for refueling, maybe one per minute, then people are going to have to do a lot of waiting before they can even hook up to the charger.

But I could get away with it if I had a BMW E. This has a small motor that charges the battery if it goes right down.
No, it is not a hybrid as the motor does not drive the transmission. But it will allow you to carry on at a top speed of about 55 mph. Possibly enough to allow you to get home to your own charger.

The question is, would I want to run a Nissan Leaf ?

Yes I would. My usage would easily allow for it. And I can park in my driveway off the street for charging.

Sadly, I can't afford one.

Ermintruder,

Re your comments in post#121 above. If you watch some of the videos your fears will be allayed.

INT21

 

[oldrover]

This thread just caught my eye as a friend of mine has just bought one of these. By trade he constructs rally-cars, but has always got by with a battered old Citroen, he's the frugal type. However, he told me that the numbers just made too much sense not to buy one. I'll be interested to see how it works out for him, well I hope.

 

[INT21]

Oldrover,

It would be interesting to get your friends perspective on this.

Two questions for him next time you met.

1, Did he buy a new or used Leaf ?

2, does he have a leased battery or an outright sale battery ?

From what I can gather, this is the key factor in Leaf ownership.

It seems the batteries are good for about 7 - 8 years before the capacity declines to around 80%. At this point you can still use the car, but the range is obviously less.
The problem with the leased battery is that you have a monthly payment regardless of usage. And there is no way to purchase the battery.

It is a major item to consider.

I assume your friend is aware of it.

The perceived problems with the heater does not appear to be in reality a fact. Particularly with the Generation Two Leaf that has a different heater system.

For some one like myself, who only drives around 50 mile per week on average, it would make sense to own one.



INT21

 

[Roland Deschain]

I understand the new leaf is in some ways inferior to the old. While battery capacity is greater you can only have one fast charge per day compared to multiple fast charges on the old. This makes them less unuseable for long distance use and some customers have returned them.

Also the car companies are already swerving the cost of recycling the batteries by flogging them off (de-rated on capacity) repackaged to people with solar panels or windmills. It's these poor buggers who will eventually get hit with disposal costs.

Gotta love these companies ethics!

 

[INT21]

It is possible that eventually the batteries will find their way back for re-processing.

This already happens with lead-acid batteries.

Must be quite profitable as the Bast***s who broke into my shed last years took all my lead acid batteries, that I was using for different electrolyte experiments, along with the tools.

INT21