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Noah's Ark: The Vessel (Feasibility; Resting Place; Remains)

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Anonymous

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I was just reading the God's Archaeologist article in the most recent F.T.

I seem to remember a t.v. program on cable last year (probably the discovert channel, but i'm not sure) that featured not only the Ron Wyatt "ark" but another possible ark sighting. I believe it was in a glacier on the ararat mountains? There may have been a photograph. Ring any bells?
 
yeah it does ring a bell m8 ive got it in an old mag but i dont think it was an ft one, it said they saw the outline from a helicopter i think and they decided on digging where they saw the shape and they did and they found the remnnants of a log boat about the size of a transit van, i'll have a look to see if i have still got the mag if i have then i post it in here:D


cas:)
 
http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal10050102.html
Link is long dead. Here's the text of the MIA webpage, salvaged from the Wayback Machine.
Noah's Ark Found?
October 5, 2001 7:50 CDT

News of the discovery of Noah's Ark has been reported in the past, but it's not like anyone could actually go over there and check out the evidence. After all, how often do YOU get to snowbound summits on Mount Ararat in Western Turkey? Recently, that all changed-- with the release of photographs of the site by Italian scholar Angelo Palego.

The pictures were part of a news conference in which Palego presented the results of his latest expedition to Turkey, which concluded in September. He is so passionate about the study of and search for Noah's Ark that the 66 year old Biblical Scholar and Jehovah's Witness left his job as an engineer in 1984 and devoted himself to the pursuit of finding it full time.

The location of the Ark was projected using information from the Bible. Noah says in the Book of Genesis that when he looked out the only window on the Ark he could see two mountains, explained Palego.

"Within a radius of 300 kilometers, these two mountains could only have been the Greater and Lesser Ararat, which are 11 miles distant from each other." Palego declared at the news conference. "Therefore, Noah must have stopped at a point of the Greater Ararat from which he could see the summit, as well as the vein of the smaller mountain. Through mathematical calculations, it was possible to pin down the exact location on an enormous platform (the size of 16 football stadiums) at an elevation of 4,800 meters on Greater Ararat."

An expedition was mounted and in the location they had specified using their research, the members of his group came upon the remains of the Ark, clearly visible under a dense layer of ice.

Source: ANSA News Agency (Paris)
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...and on the same site's bbs...

http://www.cosmiverse.com/discus/messages/8/3671.html?1002693830
Link is dead. No archived version found.
 
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I also remember on a Danish programme just a few months ago you saw a group of Danes that went to look at the Ark that had just been found. They had TV-filmings of them walking around next to this stone structure that had the proper measurements. And a guy commented on some rust he could see on the stone, talking about how he had beaten enough rust off old cars to know it when he sees it. It had to be the nails Noah used. Rust in stones? Maybe someone would care to explain to this guy where iron comes from.
 
Wasn't there an issue of FT about 3-4 years ago with the Ark as a cover picture and the predictable headline "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?
 
Back in the day when I was a Church going Catholic I had an atheist friend who used to (when it was "that time of the month") pick arguments about religion and God, she was quite determined that the Bible was a load of crap and could prove it because there are dinosaur bones, but no one's ever found Noah's Ark (wouldn't it have rotted after a while?)
 
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LobeliaOverhill said:
Back in the day when I was a Church going Catholic I had an atheist friend who used to (when it was "that time of the month") pick arguments about religion and God, she was quite determined that the Bible was a load of crap and could prove it because there are dinosaur bones, but no one's ever found Noah's Ark (wouldn't it have rotted after a while?)
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There is more than one thread devoted to Noah's Ark (Flooded Kingdoms is a good one): traditionally it was reputed to have ended up atop Mt Ararat (modern Turkish / Armenian (?) borderlands) - I made an observation elsewhere about the ark and it's remains, to wit: if the entire planet was covered in water (and let's take it as read that it was) then the all-encompassing ocean would have been subject to tidal surges, there would still have been prevailing winds, etc, so why would the Ark have stayed where it was presumably built, i.e. in the Middle East? OK, so the Bible says Ararat, but then the Bible says lots of other dubious things (probably lost a bit in translation, from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English..). The Ark could well be in the Himalayas, the Andes, even under a glacier in the Antarctic for all we know. Or, and how's this for a wild speculation, up in the mountainous bits of Central Africa, from whence it's theorised the proto-female "Eve" came all those years ago?

Nobody's looking there for Ark relics, I'll bet...
 
Red Dalek: The big report and cover story was in FT120.

Noah's Arc in Kazakhstan?

01/28/2004 12:39

A rather unusual construction site is located in Southern Kazakhstan region, by the foothills of the mountain Kazigurt, along the Chimkent-Tashkent freeway.

A monument of the Noah's Arc is being erected there. According to the local legend, the Biblical prophet has moored to this particular place, aside from the Mount Ararat.

While not denying the official version of the Great Flood, local authorities decided to use the legend in a rather practical way.

I have been told the legend of the Mount Kazigurt by Chimkentsky journalists during my recent trip to the Kazakh-Uzbek border.

Mount Kazigurt is 1776 meters high. It is situated in Northern spurs of the entire complex of Talassky Alatau. Local residents have always considered the Mount sacred. According to the legend, Nukh-Baygambara (as Kazakhs call Noah) has moored to this particular region a long time ago.

Kazakh historians and archaeologists have never taken the legend seriously. Numerous poets however have been constantly attempting to explore the truth hidden in it. Authorities of the Southern Kazakhstan decided to focus their attention at the practical aspect of the myth.

"Taking into account the actual ethnographic value of this material, regional authorities decided to not only satisfy interest of the aksakals but to derive certain practical benefits as well," commented press secretary of the regional administration Kenes Ismailov.

24 million tenge [local currency] (more than 165,000 USD) have been allotted from the regional budget for construction of a tourist complex "Kazigurt." A multileveled observation site is being constructed along a narrow freeway Chimkent-Tashkent, right at the foothills of the Mount Kazigurt. Its peak will be crowned with the Noah"s Arc. One can observe the mountain and witness a magnificent view of endless Kazakh steppes from here. The observation facility will also include several restaurants and souvenir shops.

Authorities expect that Kazigurt's surroundings to appear quite attractive to numerous tourists worldwide. However, nobody is trying to disprove the initial story regarding the Biblical prophet's travels.

"An attempt to provide scientific evidence in order to prove existence of the Bible or the Talmud appears to be rather absurd. Nobody here is trying to prove or disprove anything. It isn't our main goal to make everyone aware of the fact that Noah did in fact moor to the mount Kazigurt. Besides, we don't even know the exact date of the Great Flood," states Kenes Ismailov.

Journalist Marat Absementov recalls the first time he heard the legend of the mount Kazigurt. It happened 20 years ago. "I heard how two men, an Armenian and a Kazakh, arguing about the exact location of the Arc's mooring. The Kazakh was from Kazigurt. They turned to me with a plea to be their judge to announce the final verdict. So I said to the Armenian, 'Have you ever seen airplanes flying above Ararat?' 'Yes,' answered he. 'No airplanes fly near Kazugurt,' I said in return. Pilots observe some sort of magnetic anomaly in that region, which causes all controls in their airplanes to malfunction."

Perhaps, there is some truth to the words of the locals regarding some supernatural powers of the mountain.

To see the pictures for the report go to
http://www.newsteam.ru/reports/index.html?4,7,1
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http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/11902_Noah.html
 
Noah's Ark: The Annual Search

Expedition Will Seek to Find Noah's Ark
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - An expedition is being planned for this summer to the upper reaches of Turkey's Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

A joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up Turkey's tallest mountain, at 17,820 feet, from July 15 to August 15, subject to the approval of the Turkish government, said Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock_The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu, Hawaii.

The goal: to enter what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long that was exposed in part by last summer's heat wave in Europe.

"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said. Explorers have long searched for an ark on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, where the biblical account of the Great Flood places it.

In 1957, Turkish air force pilots spotted a boat-shaped formation in Agri province. The government did not pursue the sighting, however. The entire area, including Mount Ararat, was off limits to foreigners because of Soviet complaints that explorers were U.S. spies.

That ban was lifted in 1982, and since then teams of explorers have visited the area but have been unable to substantiate any claim of an ark. McGivern and Ahmet Ali Arslan, a Turkish mountain climber who grew up in a town near Mount Ararat, say satellite photos have helped them pinpoint a more exact location. Arslan will be leading the expedition.

The biblical account in the Book of Genesis says that after the great deluge, the ark came to rest on the mountain with Noah's family and a cargo of male and female pairs of every kind of animal.

Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.


Story
 
Re: Noah's Ark: The Annual Search

Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Expedition Will Seek to Find Noah's Ark
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON -

A joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up Turkey's tallest mountain, at 17,820 feet, from July 15 to August 15, subject to the approval of the Turkish government, said Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock_The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu, Hawaii.


"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said.
Story
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Besides "Shamrock {my emphasis}_The Trinity Corporation, Daniel P. McGivern, has, among other titles to his credit: President Christian Coalition of Hawai'i (Pat Robertson's outfit), President, Pro-Life Hawai'i and President, McGivern Mass Marketing. He has filed briefs againts same-sex marriage, unsucessfully petioned the Hawai'i School Board to teach creationism and picketed Kevin Smith's film Dogma .

Question: Since he is obviously a True Believer Without Any Doubts, Ever, why does he seem so desperate for physical proof of those beliefs?
 
Another report:

The Ark they saw? Team mounts hunt

By ALISON GENDAR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Explorers hope to uncover clues this summer to one of the oldest biblical mysteries, the location of Noah's Ark.

A joint U.S.-Turkish team believes it has satellite photos of the frozen remains of the Ark buried in the ice and snow of Mount Ararat, Turkey's tallest mountain.

"I do hope to bring people to faith in God, but this is a nonreligious, scientific expedition to prove that Noah's Ark really exists on the top of that mountain," said Daniel McGivern, president of Shamrock - The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu.

Biblical accounts of the Great Flood said Noah's Ark - packed with two of every living creature - came to rest on Mount Ararat.

The first pictures of the site, taken by the U.S. Air Force in 1949, revealed what seemed to be a boat-shaped structure covered by ice.

In 1997, the government released several of these images, but experts deemed them inconclusive. But the 2003 heat wave - the hottest European summer since 1500 - melted massive amounts of snow on Mount Ararat and provided the chance to take clearer pictures.

Trinity Corporation commissioned the latest round of satellite photos. The photos show what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long.

"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said.

Farouk El-Baz, who heads the prestigious Center for Remote Sensing at Boston University, is not so sure. While he has not seen the latest photos, he reviewed reams of earlier shots and concluded the boat outlines were shadows caused by rock ledges.

Originally published on April 27, 2004
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http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/187919p-162536c.html
 
While I'm not a believer, I hope they find it. Why? Because it would be damned inconvenient.
 
Anyone heard about this? Found it, of all places, on Jack Van Impe the televangelist's site:

Will there be a spectacular news release on August 15th?
Fox News

Daniel McGiveron is leading a group of 10 explorers to the highest mountain in turkey, 17820 feet, because of the heat wave that inundated Europe. It melted the ice and they believe they can see the top of Noah's ark and they will be going up there July 15th-August 15th and then they will show the pictures. Two years ago, the CIA with special cameras took pictures through the ice. It is 45 feet high or 4 ½ stories, 75 feet wide and 450 feet long. They believe they are going to show it and that would prove the story of genesis 6, 7. Jesus backed it in Matthew 24:37. Peter backed it in II Peter 2:5 and the Word of God will be proven to be true.

It is going to be a great day. I hope we can announce it on August 15th.
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You heard it here first, folks.:rolleyes:
 
I can remember reading in a Sunday newspaper when I was a kid or a teenager, so it would be some time in the 60s-70s, about a boat-shaped outline being spotted on Ararat. This would probably been in the Sunday People, 'cause that was the paper my parents always took on a Sunday.

Can't remember any details, though.
 
They've found tons of vaguely boat-shaped "shapes" on Mt Ararat... the only interesting account I heard was someone who came upon the towering remains of the Ark, but they couldn't find out where when they went back!

First of all, the "Noah's Arc" myth is unbelievable in the extreme, there is no evidence that it took place. I think its safe to say that it didn't.

Jesus christ, people are stupid.
 
Anyway, why would the Ark be on Mount Ararat specifically?

Mt. Ararat (known locally as Agri Dagi) is very likely the wrong place to look. Genesis says only that the Ark landed on the mountains of Ararat, where Ararat is not a single mountain but a region [2 Kings 19:37, Isa 37:38, Jer. 51:27]. That region, known in Assyrian records as Urartu, is, roughly, bounded on the west by the Euphrates River, on the south by the western Taurus Mountains (northern Iraq), somewhat east of Lake Urmia, and north to include the plain of the Araxes River. "The mountains of Ararat" implies not a single peak, but a mountainous region within this area, such as the Qardu region (northern Kurdistan) west of Lake Urmia. Early reports of the ark place it on several different mountains, including some in the Qardu region. Mt. Ararat is not mentioned as a landing site until the 11th or 12th century.
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http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH501.html
 
Re: Re: well what ever

Fitz said:
you don't seriously consider the Bible proof of anything do you?

-Fitz
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I know the question wasn't addressed to me, but if someone answers "yes" would you consider that an answer or an invitation to bait then on the subject?

I'll bite: yes. If nothing else it's proof of the continuing power, meaning and guidance that millions world wide value in their lives.

Given that ANY religious beliefs has the same amouints of validity and questionability, please recognize that by slamming Christianity you also, by association (because precisely the same arguements apply) slam every other religion in the world.

Can we get back to the subject of the archeological searches for the ark now?

I thought that Mt. Ararat had been ruled out as a possible final resting place for the ark because of the number of searches that had been done there? No?
 
To my knowledge there has never been a major exploration of the top of Mt. Ararat, and I believe the Straight Dope has an entry discounting the supposed anomaly on top.

Apart from that though, I don't "bait" people, thanks. I was asking because I don't understand why people seem to think that the Bible is proof of anything. And I didn't state whether I was Christian or not, so you shouldn't assume one way or the other, especially when accusing me of Christianity bashing before I have said a word on the subject.

For the record, I was brought up Christian, and now consider myself agnostic. And I have no major problem with Christianity, just the usual problem I have with any religion, as you stated. But, having said that, even with respect to people's chosen religion, the Bible is not proof. The fact that the book exists, and claims that certain events happened doesn't mean that they did. I'm also not saying that these events DIDN'T happen, only that you can't use the Bible as proof.

If that were the case I could say that the Iliad is proof that centaurs used to roam the Earth.

-Fitz
 
Given that ANY religious beliefs has the same amouints of validity and questionability, please recognize that by slamming Christianity you also, by association (because precisely the same arguements apply) slam every other religion in the world.
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I know, one stone, sooo many birds. :D

I don't think ANY document, without substantial correlation, is proof of anything... its hardly evidence, really. The bible, especially the OT, is completely useless as a historical or scientific document. Nothing to back it up but itself. I'm not saying anything specific about the religion, I'm just saying, the bible is an old book with lots of wacked out crap in it; taking it as scientific or historical fact *WITHOUT CORRELATING EVIDENCE* is ludicrous.

Back on topic... I *thought* I remembered something about Mt. Ararat not being specifically one certain mountain; thanks for that info Prospect.
 
Let there be more stuff!!!

By: NICK REDFERN
By: Stone Forest Editor

In a previous issue of Phenomena Magazine, I wrote an article on the so-called Ararat Anomaly, the name given by the CIA to a strange, boat-like structure that can be seen near the summit of Mt. Ararat, Turkey and that the CIA was reportedly highly interested in and particularly in the period from the late 1950s to the mid 1970s. Since then, several "whistleblowers" have contacted us to relate their own tales of official involvement and interest in the controversy surrounding the Ararat Anomaly. But first some necessary background data.
It was on June 17, 1949 that a U.S. Air Force Europe (USAFE) plane taking part in a classified mission that included securing aerial imagery of the 16,945-foot-high Mt. Ararat, Turkey, inadvertently stumbled across what might very well have been the remains of the mighty Ark of Noah as described in the Bible. As the aircraft reached a height of around fifteen thousand feet and a distance of approximately one mile from the frozen mountain, its cameras captured two extraordinary images of a large structure - perhaps five hundred feet in length - that protruded from an ice cap located at the southwest edge of Ararat's west-facing plateau.

The crew quickly swung the aircraft around and headed to the north of the mountain and continued to take photographs. Astonishingly, these revealed (from a distance of two miles) the existence of yet another, large, unidentified structure on the western plateau and three symmetrical, but badly damaged, protrusions that pointed skyward out of what looked like a wing-style section of the structure. Needless to say the photographs were carefully and quietly processed and duly classified. And thus was born the legend of the Ararat Anomaly - as it is unofficially known throughout the U.S. intelligence community and within the CIA in particular.

Over the course of the last few decades, a tantalizing body of documentation on the subject has surfaced from the vaults of the CIA and a whole host of claims and counter-claims have surfaced concerning the Anomaly: sources tell of Indiana Jones-style U.S. Government-funded expeditions to Turkey to try and locate the remains of the Ark of Noah. Others maintain that remnants of the Anomaly have been found and spirited away to classified military and governmental installations and institutions in the USA. And there is talk of intimidation by Men-in-Black style characters warning those with knowledge of the Anomaly to remain silent. So much for the legend, but what of the new revelations?

No less than three sources that served during the Second World War with the Army Air Force's then Technical Data Laboratory (later re-named the Foreign Technology Division)have informed us that in 1943 they all viewed aerial imagery of the Anomaly that had aparently been secured by British military pilots in the summer of 1941. According to all three, the images showed an object that was definitely boat-like in appearance partly protruding from an area near the icy cap of Mt. Ararat. All concur that the object was vast - although severely damaged in several places and completely covered in ice in other areas - and appeared man-made.

The pictures reputedly were of great interest to people within the Technical Data Laboratory and copies were forwarded in 1944 to people connected to the Office of Strategic Services, a wartime agency that in part ultimately led to the creation of the CIA in 1947. Precisely why the OSS, the TDL and the CIA have had this seemingly endless interest in the Ararat Anomaly and the Ark of Noah remains unclear. However, we have filed Freedom of Information Act requests with the relevant agencies in an attempt to secure what might be invaluable material evidence in the search for the truth about Noah's Ark. We'll keep you informed how things progress.
Source < can be found here ..Ruff

[Emp edit: Fixing big link]
 
Over the course of the last few decades, a tantalizing body of documentation on the subject has surfaced from the vaults of the CIA and a whole host of claims and counter-claims have surfaced concerning the Anomaly
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Such as? Come on Mr Redfern, surely you could have given us an example of this CIA documentation.

Except, of course, it probably doesn't exist....
 
Re: Re: Re: well what ever

Fallen Angel said:
I'll bite: yes. If nothing else it's proof of the continuing power, meaning and guidance that millions world wide value in their lives.

Given that ANY religious beliefs has the same amouints of validity and questionability, please recognize that by slamming Christianity you also, by association (because precisely the same arguements apply) slam every other religion in the world.

Can we get back to the subject of the archeological searches for the ark now?
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Fallen - I wouldn't say it's a matter of slamming Christianity. If someone uses the argument "it's true because it's in the bible", it's as well for them to recgonise that this line of reasoning is intellectually worthless, because it's faith, not evidence that makes them believe Biblical accounts to be factual.

Anyway, I recall reading about a source dating to between 1000BCE - 1CE which featured an account of people continuing to visit the remains of the Ark and take bitumen from it. Anyone have a link to this or can fill me in?
 
Fitz said:
Apart from that though, I don't "bait" people, thanks. I was asking because I don't understand why people seem to think that the Bible is proof of anything. And I didn't state whether I was Christian or not, so you shouldn't assume one way or the other, especially when accusing me of Christianity bashing before I have said a word on the subject.

For the record, I was brought up Christian, and now consider myself agnostic. And I have no major problem with Christianity, just the usual problem I have with any religion, as you stated. But, having said that, even with respect to people's chosen religion, the Bible is not proof. The fact that the book exists, and claims that certain events happened doesn't mean that they did. I'm also not saying that these events DIDN'T happen, only that you can't use the Bible as proof.

If that were the case I could say that the Iliad is proof that centaurs used to roam the Earth.

-Fitz
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I know you didn't slam Christianity. And I didn't accuse you of baiting me or anyone else or of slamming Christianity. But I sort of feinted in that direction and it pissed you off, didn't it? Well when you feinted in the direction of slamming Christianity (without actually doing so) it hit me the same way.

Just making a point.
 
You intended to piss me off, and did. I intended to piss nobody off, but simply asked a question. If you saw it as a leading question, then you are paranoid.

-Fitz
 
you don't seriously consider the Bible proof of anything do you?
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Looks like a leading question to me.
Or one designed to provoke people.

Or let's be generous and assume that it was just badly worded.

Not christian & not paranoid
 
Ok, on a re-reading of the thread I guess I have to admit to myself that I was, indeed, baiting that original person, Ruffready or whoever it was, without realizing it at the time. Upon honest reflection of what response I wanted to get from my question I have to admit I was hoping for something.

So, for that I apologize. But, I still stand behind everything I said. I think the notion of people believing things unconditionally just because "it's in the Bible" is very scary, because there's a lot of dodgy material in there that can, and has been, used toward nefarious ends.

-self psychoanalizing Fitz
 
Shut up you... its INFALLIBLE.

I mean, just look at how poor Judas died! Got hanged, and then fell of a cliff! Poor sod.
 
Fitz said:
Ok, on a re-reading of the thread I guess I have to admit to myself that I was, indeed, baiting that original person, Ruffready or whoever it was, without realizing it at the time. Upon honest reflection of what response I wanted to get from my question I have to admit I was hoping for something.
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Don't worry Fitz, I'm sure that Ruff was being ironic.

As far as I'm concerned, there are no "no go" areas in the quest for truth and enlightenment. If someone says something that I disagree with, or that I find offensive (unlikely), I will either engage them in polite debate, put them on my "ignore" list or report them to a Moderator.
 
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