Noah's Ark: The Vessel (Feasibility; Resting Place; Remains)

[Peripart]

I hope the Ark they build is true to the biblical depiction. A wooden boat designed to contain 2 of every creature on Earth.

Two of every creature? Where did you get that idea?

And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

It's mostly sevens (or possibly fourteens, depending on how you read it). It was a big old boat!

 

[Mythopoeika]

Ahh, OK - it's been a long time since I read that ol' book. I dimly recalled it being 2 of every kind...

 

[rynner2]

That Telegraph link doesn't work, by the way.

The link's not that old - the change to the new MB must have corrupted it. Luckily I pasted most of the text anyway in my 2014 post... You can read it upthread.

And the link from that post does work, after a fashion - try this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10594317/Channel-4-to-build-Babylonian-Ark.html

 

[Peripart]

Ahh, OK - it's been a long time since I read that ol' book. I dimly recalled it being 2 of every kind...

Me too, but I watch QI!

 

[Schwadevivre]

It was a big old boat!

But the Bible literalists claim that there were not the same number of species - only "kinds." So you would have one pair of small cat kind and another of big cat kind and so on. These kinds then diverged into their modern forms but this was not "Macro-evolution" (which is Darwinism and evil) just "Micro-evolution" (which is biblical and good). Oh, and the inbreeding problem is solved by the old kinds (and humans) having massive numbers of genes. Not forgetting that all the beasts (except the humans, ravens and the doves) fell into some sort of hibernation which meant there was no need to feed them or clear away urine or faeces.

Then, at the end, because the ice shell from which all the water from above came was melted there could be the first rainbow.

 

[ramonmercado]

The missing Scotsman and the deadly hunt for Noah’s Ark
Explorers and evangelical Christians are still searching for the mythical ship in Turkey
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 02:00 Updated: Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 09:40

Its Turkish name translates as “mountain of pain” and, according to legend, somewhere around Mount Ararat’s summit, buried under ice thousands of years old, is Noah’s Ark.

Since antiquity, explorers and evangelical Christians from around the world have descended on this mountain in eastern Turkey in a quest for answers to one of history’s biggest myths: is Noah’s Ark here? Does it really exist?

The Book of Genesis says that the ship came to rest on Ararat mountain after seven months and 17 days of a torrential flood ordered by God as punishment for man’s faults.

Modern expeditions to Ararat began in the mid-1800s when locals would tell passing travelling expeditions and merchants of the ark’s presence on the mountain.

A century later, a wave of wealthy American evangelicals and missionaries began flying out to the isolated mountain to try to find the ultimate proof that God created the Earth.

By the early 1980s, the New York Times noted ark-hunting around Mount Ararat had become a local cottage industry.

The potential for a historic discovery drew believers from all walks of life.

Donald Mackenzie was an average Scotsman from Lewis in the Outer Hebrides where he worked on building sites, got drunk at weekends and fought local bullies.

He wandered aimlessly through his 20s and 30s, but when a fight left him in hospital, he paused.

His brother Derick persuaded him to turn to God, and he began reading the Bible. Soon enough Mackenzie became infatuated with Noah’s Ark.

Again and again Mackenzie travelled out to Mount Ararat, spending weeks in a local town, taking tours up the mountain, often alone, and even chiding foreign trekkers for not going to Mass and for drinking on Sundays.

He would try to convince local Kurdish villagers to convert to the word of the Bible and to give up Ramadan fasting.

Early-season blizzard
Six years ago this month the born-again Christian went up Ararat to check out a gorge he suspected could offer some clues buried among the ice.

Just months before, a team from Hong Kong claimed it had found a fragment of the ark. Mackenzie, having spent years searching across the mountain, had to go see for himself.

He was soon caught in an early-season blizzard.

“Again, the weather has turned against us; it’s a case of returning, no choice,” he said in one of the last recordings of him alive.

“Apparently there is much more bad weather forecast so I’m going to head down today.”

A sewing kit, a pocket telescope and a business card with an Isle of Lewis address were later found at an abandoned campsite above 13,000 feet. Donald Mackenzie was never seen again.

Did he freeze to death in a blizzard or fall into a crevasse and die of his injuries? Was he attacked by wolves? Or was he kidnapped and murdered by Islamist extremists? ...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...-and-the-deadly-hunt-for-noah-s-ark-1.2812234

 

[Comfortably Numb]

'Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them'.

'Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth'.

That's either plausible and factual, or it ain't... :bish:

 

[Dropship]

[re Noah's Ark]....That's either plausible and factual, or it ain't... :bish:

Yeah no ship could have been big enough to hold every full-size species on earth and the food/water they'd require, but it's quite possible if we don't think full-size, and think "tiny DNA samples" instead, and regard the Ark as a "DNA repository craft".
DNA is not a new idea, for example Adam's rib furnished the DNA to make Eve...

 

[Shady]

I believe Noah's Ark is the Earth

Sorry loads of edits to get this right

 

[Dropship]

I believe Noah's Ark is the Earth

Hey I was going to say something like that but you beat me to it (sniffle)..
The film 'Silent Running' touched on the idea with the 'Valley Forge' ship (below), which housed Earth flora and fauna in its domes for safekeeping-

 

[INT21]

Good film, 'Silent Running'.

One of my collection.

 

[XBergMann]

On the subject of Noah's Ark this lecture by Irving Finkel, chief curator at the British Museum is both educational and very funny at the same time.

Mr Finkel and his team set out to build their own Ark to the Bible's design and here he details his findings and the end result.

 

[Mythopoeika]

I remember this. Think - 'giant coracle'.
Finkel is a very entertaining speaker.

 

[Mikefule]

The problem with Noah's Ark as a theory is that Noah had to take 2 teredo worms. It did not end well.

 

[maximus otter]

Noah’s Ark hunters claims they’ve FOUND boat in Turkish mountains as 3D scans detect ‘shape matching Bible description’​

Biblical archaeologists used ground penetrating radar to study the boat-like formation on Mount Tendürek which has long been rumoured to be the location of the legendary vessel from the Book of Genesis.

US and Turkish investigators have boasted the initial scans are promising and suggest a manmade object heading beneath the mountain - and they remain hopeful it may be the Ark.

Creationists have long claimed that Noah's legendary ship is real and was buried beneath the rocky spot, known as the Durupınar, in the east of Turkey.

Geologists on the other hand claim the mountainous lump, which was discovered half a century ago, in eastern Turkey is simply an unusual rock formation.

But the team led by long-time ark hunter Andrew Jones believe they have images of what resembles Noah’s Ark.

The ground-penetrating radar (GPR) surveys were conducted at the site by the Oregon-based Topa 3D.

The project - Noah's Ark Scans - claim they have discovered "parallel line and right angles below the surface" which are "something you would not expect to see in a natural, geologic formation".

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3725022/noahs-ark-buried-turkish-mountains-experts-3d-scans-prove/

maximus otter

 

[Cochise]

Noah’s Ark hunters claims they’ve FOUND boat in Turkish mountains as 3D scans detect ‘shape matching Bible description’​

Biblical archaeologists used ground penetrating radar to study the boat-like formation on Mount Tendürek which has long been rumoured to be the location of the legendary vessel from the Book of Genesis.

US and Turkish investigators have boasted the initial scans are promising and suggest a manmade object heading beneath the mountain - and they remain hopeful it may be the Ark.

Creationists have long claimed that Noah's legendary ship is real and was buried beneath the rocky spot, known as the Durupınar, in the east of Turkey.

Geologists on the other hand claim the mountainous lump, which was discovered half a century ago, in eastern Turkey is simply an unusual rock formation.

But the team led by long-time ark hunter Andrew Jones believe they have images of what resembles Noah’s Ark.

The ground-penetrating radar (GPR) surveys were conducted at the site by the Oregon-based Topa 3D.

The project - Noah's Ark Scans - claim they have discovered "parallel line and right angles below the surface" which are "something you would not expect to see in a natural, geologic formation".

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3725022/noahs-ark-buried-turkish-mountains-experts-3d-scans-prove/

maximus otter

There are of course flood legends in many religions. And there is no reason why there shouldn't be an ancient boat. But it is trying to prove the literal truth of the Bible which pushes the creationists into the absurd. It simply could not have happened as written. And I say this as a practicing Christian.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Noah’s Ark hunters claims they’ve FOUND boat in Turkish mountains as 3D scans detect ‘shape matching Bible description’​

Biblical archaeologists used ground penetrating radar to study the boat-like formation on Mount Tendürek which has long been rumoured to be the location of the legendary vessel from the Book of Genesis.

US and Turkish investigators have boasted the initial scans are promising and suggest a manmade object heading beneath the mountain - and they remain hopeful it may be the Ark.

Creationists have long claimed that Noah's legendary ship is real and was buried beneath the rocky spot, known as the Durupınar, in the east of Turkey.

Geologists on the other hand claim the mountainous lump, which was discovered half a century ago, in eastern Turkey is simply an unusual rock formation.

But the team led by long-time ark hunter Andrew Jones believe they have images of what resembles Noah’s Ark.

The ground-penetrating radar (GPR) surveys were conducted at the site by the Oregon-based Topa 3D.

The project - Noah's Ark Scans - claim they have discovered "parallel line and right angles below the surface" which are "something you would not expect to see in a natural, geologic formation".

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3725022/noahs-ark-buried-turkish-mountains-experts-3d-scans-prove/

maximus otter

I thought this had been found years ago? I definitely remember seeing similar stuff.

 

[Lb8535]

Noah’s Ark hunters claims they’ve FOUND boat in Turkish mountains as 3D scans detect ‘shape matching Bible description’​

Biblical archaeologists used ground penetrating radar to study the boat-like formation on Mount Tendürek which has long been rumoured to be the location of the legendary vessel from the Book of Genesis.

US and Turkish investigators have boasted the initial scans are promising and suggest a manmade object heading beneath the mountain - and they remain hopeful it may be the Ark.

Creationists have long claimed that Noah's legendary ship is real and was buried beneath the rocky spot, known as the Durupınar, in the east of Turkey.

Geologists on the other hand claim the mountainous lump, which was discovered half a century ago, in eastern Turkey is simply an unusual rock formation.

But the team led by long-time ark hunter Andrew Jones believe they have images of what resembles Noah’s Ark.

The ground-penetrating radar (GPR) surveys were conducted at the site by the Oregon-based Topa 3D.

The project - Noah's Ark Scans - claim they have discovered "parallel line and right angles below the surface" which are "something you would not expect to see in a natural, geologic formation".

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3725022/noahs-ark-buried-turkish-mountains-experts-3d-scans-prove/

maximus otter

I assume that part of the belief not mentioned here is that the visual and structural remains are themselves supernatural. Wood would be very long gone, not around long enough even to form a limestone cast around it. When archaeologists find something wooden they find chemically identifiable remains in the soil, or contents, or it was buried in very specific kinds of soils that contained preservatives or the soil was wet and just right to preserve a cast. However, nothing exists anything near that old. Edit Although I guess given the topic the claim will be that God just preserved it - but hid it pending the invention of gpr.

 

[Sid]

I assume that part of the belief not mentioned here is that the visual and structural remains are themselves supernatural. Wood would be very long gone, not around long enough even to form a limestone cast around it. When archaeologists find something wooden they find chemically identifiable remains in the soil, or contents, or it was buried in very specific kinds of soils that contained preservatives or the soil was wet and just right to preserve a cast. However, nothing exists anything near that old. Edit Although I guess given the topic the claim will be that God just preserved it - but hid it pending the invention of gpr.

Possibility that the 'Ark' never was as is generally believed to be a huge boat.
As the depictions of pyramids on this webpage shows quite clearly. . .
https://earth-chronicles.com/histori/noahs-ark-was-shaped-like-a-pyramid.html
"Interesting thought, hmm?"

 

[EnolaGaia]

The ground-penetrating radar (GPR) surveys were conducted at the site by the Oregon-based Topa 3D.
The project - Noah's Ark Scans - claim they have discovered "parallel line and right angles below the surface" which are "something you would not expect to see in a natural, geologic formation". ...

Isn't this simply a replay of David Fasold's GPR scans and claims from the 1980s - the claims he would abandon and refute in the 1990s before his death?

 

[Nosmo King]

I'm pretty sure the story of 'Noah' in the old testament and the Torah are taken from the story of 'Gilgamesh' so if anything it would be Gilgameshs boat

 

[AgProv]

Back in the day when I was a Church going Catholic I had an atheist friend who used to (when it was "that time of the month") pick arguments about religion and God, she was quite determined that the Bible was a load of crap and could prove it because there are dinosaur bones, but no one's ever found Noah's Ark (wouldn't it have rotted after a while?)

If two (or seven) of every animal species was on board, these would by implication have included species like termites, wasps, death's head beetles, ship's worm, borer worm, woodworm.... as well as higher animals like beavers and gophers. I can see the termite population in Ararat would have exploded inside a few months of coming to earth, for instance - an abundant food resource close to hand, or perhaps to mandible. (Also, Noah's family built homes close by where the Ark came to rest. Out of what, exactly? It'd have taken a while for new trees to grow for wood.(And this opens new questions... was there a seedbank on board the Ark?) I suspect with no further need for it, they would not have left all that handy wood alone. They'd have sought to recycle it, preferably before the beetles and the termites and things got to it. Also, any nails and things are not cheap or easy to come by and it would have taken a while for mining, metallurgy or smithing to evolve again. They'd have dismantled the Ark to get those useful bits of low-tech back.

There'd have been nothing left within the first couple of decades.

 

[AgProv]

In Ned Flanders Ark the animals went in one by one not only cutting out hanky panky but also saving space.
Agreed if ever there was an Ark the last place you'd look for it would be 15000ft up a mountain

I get it: the sensible thing for Noah to do with limited space might have been to take a single pregnant example of each!

 

[AgProv]

I'm pretty sure the story of 'Noah' in the old testament and the Torah are taken from the story of 'Gilgamesh' so if anything it would be Gilgameshs boat

Or Deucalion's.

 

[AgProv]

Noah’s Ark hunters claims they’ve FOUND boat in Turkish mountains as 3D scans detect ‘shape matching Bible description’​

Biblical archaeologists used ground penetrating radar to study the boat-like formation on Mount Tendürek which has long been rumoured to be the location of the legendary vessel from the Book of Genesis.

If that reminds me of anything at all, it's a Celtic hill fort viewed from above. This would have been within the eastern range of the Celtic tribes in antiquity, for one thing. And aerial photography so often picks up the "shadows" of things which are practically invisible on the ground. Those organically curved walls and ditches following contour lines suggest something more immediately explicable in terms of regular archaeology and ancient history. (There are enough Celtic remains in the British Isles and France that look like this from the air)

 

[Vardoger]

The Gilgamesh epic is older and refer to the mountain of Nisir/Pir Omar Gudrun. If anything, that's where they should look.