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Noises In My Lane: Audible Strangeness In Ammanford

What seems like a large jump to me is hearing some strange noises, including ordinary street sounds and other mundane things down in the cellar, not being able to easily explain them, then concluding there is an underground torture chamber and/or drug lab deep beneath the house. That is very obviously your conclusion, no matter what gloss you may want to put on it. You've imagined a huge conspiracy that is no more plausible than the subterranean torture chamber. Assuming you are not making it all up, I think it should have been pretty easy to predict the police response. You did try to rule out some obvious things, but you might have needed someone with real expertise in such matters. The supervillain lair under the house idea is a dead end. There is a long list of reasons it is implausible.
But that was not the case.

This matter has been ongoing for three and a half years.

We heard some noises and investigated them.

When I say "we" I mean myself and my wife, when you refer to me in what you state in your post I think it is important that you realise that it is not just me that decided to investigate this matter.

Perhaps you could tell me where I have actually stated that I think there is "an underground torture chamber/ or drug den deep beneath the house", my personal belief is that whatever it is, is not actually that deep under the ground.

Far from putting gloss on it, I invited others to give their opinions and ideas on the matter, many did.

On change.org over 220 people signed my petition for a full investigation after listening to the recordings.

I am not imaging a huge conspiracy but simply trying to report on noises that I and others have recorded.

I agree with you when you say this sounds implausible, but what do you make of the fact that the lease holder of the shop in front of the house was convicted for her part in 15 illicit drug factories? or the fact that the man who ran the shop next door was convicted of rape at gunpoint and attempted child molestation?

If I told you of those events would you agree that the chance of two criminals of this calibre being next door neighbours was implausible?

Yet it is documented fact.

You state that you think it should have been pretty easy to predict the police response.

Of course it was, why do you think certain reports have been faked?

Please do not consider that I am just saying this, I have proved that at least one police document was faked and have invited comments from anyone who can tell me why they consider it is not.

To date not one person has come forward with any ideas of how that document could anything else but a fake, but the reason is because it has been faked and its obvious.

Even if you assume that I have made all this up, why would my wife and other people come to the same conclusions?

You state that there is a long list of reasons why this is implausible.

I invite you to send me your list and I will reply to every point that you raise as truthfully as I can.

Implausible? Yes - but when all the reasons that it is implausible are exhausted, then what remains becomes plausible.

Best regards

Alan
 
@Alan Tait Ammanford - please could you answer the question I posed upthread as to whether these noises have been recorded from elsewhere in your district? It might help to know whether it's an external problem or an internal one.
 
Can we get back to what we think of the Alan Tait's recordings?
I posted two of the early machine noises in an earlier post, to keep these noises in context, the five hour recording is available to anyone who wants it. Any of the original 5 hour recordings are available to anyone that wants them.

Best regards

Alan
 
This is the third and last time I'm gonna say it - there aren't any 20-some thousand lines of HTML (or any other) code in the executable files underlying the Wales Online and Gloucestershire Live 'File Not Found' webpages.

Here's the proof ...

The text file attached to this post contains the text comprising the entirety of the File Not Found webpage's 'code'. The overall file content is HTML, with embedded Java scripting here and there.

This UNIX / UNICODE listing is the exact 'script' from which this 'code' is executed.

It has had visible line numbers inserted into the listing so you can see where the line boundaries are.

There are a total of 22,500 lines in the listing. As you can see for yourself, the overwhelming majority of them are empty / blank.

The few scattered 'islands' of text content represent the HTML and JavaScript code used to assemble the webpage. Some of these text 'islands' are comprised of more than one line in the listing. Some chunks actually take up only a single line in the code listing (see, e.g., line 475).

The huge expanses of empty lines mean nothing except a ton of empty space was deliberately left within the stock template file. All that empty space is 'cheap', in the sense it imparts no discernible impediment to executing the code / scripts.
And again, when open that webpage there are 22,500 lines in that file.

We seem to agree that the majority of those lines are blank, and that the other articles have around 250 lines in them.

I think it was you that agreed that this "was strange" that is my only point, it is strange.

Can we just agree to leave this subject?

Best regards

Alan
 
This is the third and last time I'm gonna say it - there aren't any 20-some thousand lines of HTML (or any other) code in the executable files underlying the Wales Online and Gloucestershire Live 'File Not Found' webpages.

Here's the proof ...

The text file attached to this post contains the text comprising the entirety of the File Not Found webpage's 'code'. The overall file content is HTML, with embedded Java scripting here and there.

This UNIX / UNICODE listing is the exact 'script' from which this 'code' is executed.

It has had visible line numbers inserted into the listing so you can see where the line boundaries are.

There are a total of 22,500 lines in the listing. As you can see for yourself, the overwhelming majority of them are empty / blank.

The few scattered 'islands' of text content represent the HTML and JavaScript code used to assemble the webpage. Some of these text 'islands' are comprised of more than one line in the listing. Some chunks actually take up only a single line in the code listing (see, e.g., line 475).

The huge expanses of empty lines mean nothing except a ton of empty space was deliberately left within the stock template file. All that empty space is 'cheap', in the sense it imparts no discernible impediment to executing the code / scripts.
Found It!
"Yes, it's strange, but it's an old school tactic for generating forms or templates that casual users aren't likely to screw up."

Best regards

Alan
 
I agree with you when you say this sounds implausible, but what do you make of the fact that the lease holder of the shop in front of the house was convicted for her part in 15 illicit drug factories? or the fact that the man who ran the shop next door was convicted of rape at gunpoint and attempted child molestation?

If I told you of those events would you agree that the chance of two criminals of this calibre being next door neighbours was implausible?
I most certainly would not. I've lived in some very sketchy neighborhoods before, and have no doubt there was criminal activity going on in numerous places near me. It is, unfortunately, very common. You seem to be putting two and two together, and getting 27.

I'm not going to fuss about this. I've not seen or heard anything that makes me think you have recordings of people being tortured or drugs being manufactured. How many people can scream for hours? What about the obvious sounds of passing motor vehicles? And so on.

What would impress me is a competent sound engineer or someone like that saying, on the record, that they were a disinterested party, that they put their own microphone down there, and got recordings of sounds they could not explain. I can think of three such people I could call for something like that, people I know. I'm sure Wales has plenty, but under the circumstances I think that ship has sailed.
 
@Alan Tait Ammanford - please could you answer the question I posed upthread as to whether these noises have been recorded from elsewhere in your district? It might help to know whether it's an external problem or an internal one.
Thanks for your post and also your interest:

10 Questions to Mr Tait: (feel free to call me Alan)

(a) Have you released ALL the recordings made in your basement - or just cherry picked the ones that seemed to confirm your suspicions?

All of the original recordings are available to anyone that wants them, they were previously released via sound cloud and on google drive.

I cancelled sound cloud simply on grounds of cost.

I did choose those extracts, they are some of the clearer ones but I did chose them because I feel they seem to confirm my suspicions, my suspicion being that criminality is taking place and that the possibility of criminal activity should be investigated.


b) Have people in nearby properties also heard strange noises from below-and, if not, why do you think this was only happening at your former property?

The nearby properties are best explained with a quick visit via google earth


Approaching the front of the house you would see a row of commercial shops and buildings.

My former house was behind Sophia nails in Ammanford, to the right of Sophia nails there is an alleyway. If you were to walk down that alleyway you would come to the house.

On the other side of the alleyway is the rear of 22 College street, to the front there is a shop and the rear is a similar design to my former house.

At the time the recordings were made, 22 College Street was an empty semi derelict building.

The police did have a look inside that building but only after asking the owners permission and both sides agreeing a date many weeks in the future.

I detail what I consider to be wrong with the police investigation in my first documentary.

The documentary was hurriedly put together and the quality is not great simply because I was learning as I went along. In total it is around 2 hours long but if you want to understand why I think the police investigation inside the house and the subsequent report that relates to it is wrong, just fast forward through the other bits.


(c) What were you doing in Bulgaria prior to returning to Britain when all this began?

Enjoying life and running a small charity in a village called Nickolaevka. I moved to Bulgaria back in 2004/2005

The purpose of the charity was to reuse educational equipment that was finished with in the UK and take it to Bulgaria.

Ammanford fundraisers Bulgaria mission | South Wales Guardian

It was really good fun, I could write a new post just about those experiences, maybe one day I will.

It was in Bulgaria that I learnt what poverty actually was and how it effects some people, unless you have seen the true effects of poverty (not just told about them) then its hard to imagine. A lot of poverty could be eradicated in people just had a small shift in their thinking.

Christine and I actually invest money (if and when we have spare money) in the form of macro loans in various Countries in the World.

Simply put the load is made to someone who really needs it, they repay the loan over a long period, and then we re-lend the funds.

On average we loose 8% of our investment every year, and yes, it is a plug for the charity (but it is coming up to Christmas)

Zidisha | Alan Tait Ammanford


A fascinating thread - shame that it's such a dark one. So, let's dive in:

1. A few years back, strange noises in a basement would have been interpreted as evidence of a haunting or some kind of paranormal manifestation. Nowadays it seems that pretty much nobody, and there are some real ghost believers on this site -is proposing this as a possibility here. Interesting!


We were contacted by many ghost hunters and the like asking if they could visit the property, in the early days I said a firm no as I was of the opinion that it might be dangerous.

As time went by I re-though my approach and allowed people in to the property subject to them knowing about the noises etc.

Several did go inside the property, two of those that did appear in my latest “documentary” which was described as “awful” in a previous post.

The ghost hunters said that they did not think that the recordings were EVP’s or ghosts but of real people.


One person, Mark Vernon, visited the property and said that the activity at the property was definitely paranormal, you will still find his video on YouTube, it consists mostly of him and a couple of friends eating chips

2. The recordings. The most compelling one is the `Why, Gareth, why` one.

However, I do feel that there is a bit of aural pareidolia going on here. It reminds me very much of the brief craze for Backward Speech Recordings that existed about fifteen years ago.

The idea was that if you played someone's speech backwards you could hear what they were really thinking and feeling.

It was very entertaining but was so obviously based around suggestion and pareidolia. What the advocates heard, and encouraged you to hear, reflected their own (usually right-wing) political biases.

So some Republican Senator being played backwards would apparently say something like `It's an honour to serve` whereas Obama played backwards would be saying something like: `I love Satan`.

With that in mind...might the line be (for example) `Wipe, Graham wipe. The paint has dried` - ?( I do agree that the woman sounds to be in distress though).



Originally the noise was released in the Gloucester live article (the one that has been archived), when people sent me there ideas I listen to the recording again through noise cancelling, over the ear headphones.

I tend to agree with the majority of people who say the last three words are “the babies died” but there have been different interpretations of the first three words.

I agree with your comment about “audio pareidolia”, its an interesting subject.

3. In any case, the construction `Why (someone's name) why` strikes me as rather old fashioned and theatrical. It is more like a line from a bad TV soap opera than something someone would actually say nowadays.

I had never considered that before, I tend to agree.

Although (in my opinion) it could be a foreign women who has learnt English.

4. I am also struck by the fact that the recordings consist of short snatches of noises - not long sequences. It seems to me that this suggests that they are examples of ephemeral carried noises from elsewhere. If something below the ground were being picked up you would expect the sounds to be continuous not coming and going all the time.

When noises were recorded, the device would record for 5 hours, save the recording and continue recording. We use to leave the battery powered recorders in the property until the battery went flat, we could expect around three days of continuous recordings.

We have hundreds of hours of recordings, I posted extracts simply as an examples of some of the noises recorded, if I posted the full five hour recordings as an introduction I doubt many people would listen all the way through.

5. If there is an `underground facility` beneath that house then the practical implications involved are mind-boggling. Just stop to think about it for a moment. If the bunker has been there a long time - then there would be mention of it in the records in a local reference library for sure.

It is documented that over two and a half miles of road were laid inside the nearest coal mine, by local historian, Mr Terry Norman

Ammanford Colliery and Betws Colliery (ic24.net)

In addition , there is a bus station opposite the house that in years gone by had two underground toilets.

Around the corner is Margaret Street, it was the site of a WW2 shelter during the war

If it has been recently created - then it would have to have been dug out of the ground. How would anyone do that in a built up area without being noticed?

I believe that a tunnel was constructed fairly recently, we documented this in our first documentary.

To the other side of 22 College Street, is John Francis estate agents.

They state (in a letter) that the owners of 22 College Street carried out work at their property, when they did the walls shook, a very loud noise was heard and on one occasion the plaster fell from the wall.

I heard those noises, they were extremely loud.

I have been on building sites and in my opinion, some form of demolition hammer was being used over an extended period.

By extended period I mean many months, on one occasion the noise was very loud, I went out to see where it was coming from, the ground underneath my feet in the alleyway was literally shaking.

The damage that was caused that day is detailed in a surveyors report together with many pictures in the first documentary.

I have many more photos if anyone wants them.

There would also have to be an entry point to the bunker where people could enter and leave without detection. It would possibly have to have catering facilities of some kind there. At the very least it would need lighting. All of this would be very hard to arrange in a suburban area without people knowing about it!

I have been contacted by someone who says that they were an ex-miner, they stated that there was an air shaft from the mine very close to my house.

I have searched local records but I can find no mention of it.

6. Have children and adults been reported missing in the locality recently? If there are children and adults enslaved (or whatever) down there then somebody will have noticed their absence. Have there been any reports of this?

I researched this at the time, then I started wondering about it, could it be the case that the people heard were illegally brought into the UK?

I could find no reports locally that were relevant.

7. Drug production, enslavement and systematic child abuse seems like an odd mix of crimes. I am not aware that these normally go together. iI seems to me that any serious criminal would not want to complicate things by committing multiple crimes at one time.

Agreed, I have often wondered about that, various people have put forward different reasons for the noises, my position is that the noises and other events are unusual and should be fully investigated.

Personally I think that when a policeman fakes a document, the very next question that should follow, is why the document was faked and on whose authority?

It is documented that I sent a single text message to one of the owners of the house next door (I did), but why did it warrant two officers being sent to my house immediately?

After that the two officers came back, sat me in the back of a police car for around 15 minutes, they told me I had to attend a “voluntary” interview or I would be arrested, I attended the voluntary interview and no charges were made.

I made a complaint and was given most of the paperwork that related to the incident.

In those documents that were heavily redacted, it shows that there was no complainant.

The officers concerned would have 100% got away with their actions if I had not discovered how to un-redact the document.

I still have all the paperwork, anyone that wants a copy is welcome to it

8. The OP's website is an enviably successful one. It is telling a lot of people what they want to hear - viz that there are foreign criminals beneath our very feet producing drugs and (inexplicably) torturing babies while they're about it. In times of economic uncertainty Simple and Scary wins every time.

I respectfully disagree, the website is only successful if it results in a proper investigation in to what happened, we have been investigating this matter for over three years and sold our house to be able to continue our investigation.

There is nothing for sale on our website, nothing that requires money, this is about something other than money.

9. All that said, I do think that the police should investigate this matter. They should do so if only to put people's mind at rest. And there is an outside chance that there is something bad going on - although on a smaller scale than the Tait's believe.(This begs the question of what exactly the police are supposed to do, however!)


Please look at the material I have provided and feel free to ask any questions that you have, I try to reply to everybody

Apologies, my reply was a bit long



Thanks for posting



Best regards



Alan
 
I believe Mr Tait has sold the property - so no further investigations are possible.
The property has been sold, but further investigations are possible.

I still have all the recordings, pictures and documents that relate to this matter, anyone that wants copies
is welcome to them.

Best regards

Alan
 
I most certainly would not. I've lived in some very sketchy neighborhoods before, and have no doubt there was criminal activity going on in numerous places near me. It is, unfortunately, very common. You seem to be putting two and two together, and getting 27.

I'm not going to fuss about this. I've not seen or heard anything that makes me think you have recordings of people being tortured or drugs being manufactured. How many people can scream for hours? What about the obvious sounds of passing motor vehicles? And so on.

What would impress me is a competent sound engineer or someone like that saying, on the record, that they were a disinterested party, that they put their own microphone down there, and got recordings of sounds they could not explain. I can think of three such people I could call for something like that, people I know. I'm sure Wales has plenty, but under the circumstances I think that ship has sailed.

Each to their own, but I think I am many miles away from 2 + 2 = 27.

Many people have said the same, scratch the surface a bit more, ask some more questions and you will get a better over view of what actually happened. Anyway, you asked for a sound engineers report so I have attached one for you.

Best regards

Alan
 

Attachments

  • Simon Bolton 01 07 2019.pdf
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My Relatives spend a lot of time in Bulgaria; its a fun and friendly country, but indeed one with a lot of poverty.

Anyway, was your recording devices magnetic tape or digital devices?
 
Can you just confirm that I have replied to you?

I don't like missing anyone:)

Best regards

Alan
Thank you, yes, but you haven't said whether anyone has attempted to get any recordings from any places in the rough vicinity of the house. Any noises that are audible in your basement ought, given your suspicions as to the origins of the noises. be audible from other buildings for quite a wide radius.
 
Each to their own, but I think I am many miles away from 2 + 2 = 27.

Many people have said the same, scratch the surface a bit more, ask some more questions and you will get a better over view of what actually happened. Anyway, you asked for a sound engineers report so I have attached one for you.

Best regards

Alan
Well that's partly there. Simon seems even more certain of his detailed divinations than you are of an underground torture chamber. It seems he has not visited the property, let alone made his own recordings. Is that right? I'm curious as to why he thinks the noises that don't fit with your theory are recordings being played by someone for some reason, but apparently the voices are not. I don't follow. I do know a bit about acoustics and recording technology, and this doesn't add up for me. At any rate, he has apparently only listened to your recordings.

For the record, I am not saying you made this all up, but honestly if I heard your recordings without any context at all, as in never having heard of you or your house, I'd say they sounded like mashups of many ordinary sounds, the likes of which could be heard or recorded on one or more public streets in a good sized town. I do not hear anything extraordinary or compelling.

If, as I have been assuming, you heard strange sounds in your kitchen after owning the place for some years, and all of the recordings you have published came from the space below, then that is a remarkable occurrence and investigation is in order, or at least it was. I would not expect the police to start digging after hearing your complaint, and writing their response off as part of a cover up is not warranted in my opinion. It would have been better if they had gone down there and listened, or got someone to record things themselves on their behalf, but it's easy to imagine them figuring it would be a waste of time and resources.

Voices do not travel through soil well at all. Really no sound does unless it is of a very low frequency. I assume you looked for signs of passages through which the sounds could travel. I've still not seen any information on the steel door that was mentioned a few days ago. Getting a recording of a voice to come through with sufficient clarity for someone to make observations about the room in which they originated is not going to happen with masonry or any significant amount of dirt in between.
 
My Relatives spend a lot of time in Bulgaria; its a fun and friendly country, but indeed one with a lot of poverty.

Anyway, was your recording devices magnetic tape or digital devices?
Bulgaria can be a fun and friendly Country.

They were digital devices
 
Thank you, yes, but you haven't said whether anyone has attempted to get any recordings from any places in the rough vicinity of the house. Any noises that are audible in your basement ought, given your suspicions as to the origins of the noises. be audible from other buildings for quite a wide radius.
I made a recording in the rear garden, in the alleyway and in the two drainage systems in the alleyway

When the recordings were compared, the noises were loudest in the shaft in the basement, as if the source of the noise was directly underneath

Best regards

Alan
 
Well that's partly there. Simon seems even more certain of his detailed divinations than you are of an underground torture chamber. It seems he has not visited the property, let alone made his own recordings. Is that right? I'm curious as to why he thinks the noises that don't fit with your theory are recordings being played by someone for some reason, but apparently the voices are not. I don't follow. I do know a bit about acoustics and recording technology, and this doesn't add up for me. At any rate, he has apparently only listened to your recordings.

For the record, I am not saying you made this all up, but honestly if I heard your recordings without any context at all, as in never having heard of you or your house, I'd say they sounded like mashups of many ordinary sounds, the likes of which could be heard or recorded on one or more public streets in a good sized town. I do not hear anything extraordinary or compelling.

If, as I have been assuming, you heard strange sounds in your kitchen after owning the place for some years, and all of the recordings you have published came from the space below, then that is a remarkable occurrence and investigation is in order, or at least it was. I would not expect the police to start digging after hearing your complaint, and writing their response off as part of a cover up is not warranted in my opinion. It would have been better if they had gone down there and listened, or got someone to record things themselves on their behalf, but it's easy to imagine them figuring it would be a waste of time and resources.

Voices do not travel through soil well at all. Really no sound does unless it is of a very low frequency. I assume you looked for signs of passages through which the sounds could travel. I've still not seen any information on the steel door that was mentioned a few days ago. Getting a recording of a voice to come through with sufficient clarity for someone to make observations about the room in which they originated is not going to happen with masonry or any significant amount of dirt in between.

Simons report was sent to me via email, it was unsolicited but what he said seemed to loosely fit in with an experiment that I had carried out prior to his email arriving. In my experiment I placed three microphones across one of the walls of the basement and shielded them as much as I could so that would record the noise from the wall and not from behind the recorder.

When I plated the recordings back and compared them, I could hear somebody walking about on the first recorder but not on the second one. On a closer examination, whoever it was could be first heard on recorder 1 and then later on recorder 2.

The only thing I thought at the time was that whoever it was firstly walked close to recorder 1, went somewhere and when he returned he was in a different area as he went past recorder 2.

To my mind when Simons email arrived is seemed to be plausible.

I tried to research if what he was saying was actually correct, but could not come up with a definitive answer.

Simons version does differ from mine to a degree, but would you not expect that to be the case? I did not, and still do not, understand the bit where he talks about some of the noises being recordings that are being played back.

If I presumed that he was a sound engineer and what he said about the two rooms was accurate, then it would follow that he knows what he is talking about and the bit about some of the noises that heard are actually recordings being played back would be true.

But I could not get his report verified as factual, when I wrote to him I did not get a reply. I did notice the secure email address he sent the email from though.

Voices do not travel well through soil is agreed, but could through an open tunnel.

This could account for some of the noises, a lot of noises that were recorded were only of short duration, I thought that maybe a door or a trapdoor had been opened and the sound recorded before the door closed.

I have some clear recordings of what sounds like an old creaky door opening, in some of them you can hear chains and padlocks being unlocked.

Sound can travel in free air (obviously) but can also travel in gas, this is one possibility that might explain some of the distortions.

I do have recordings that have clearer voices in them, I will post them tomorrow and get back to you.

I am unsure what the steel door refers too?

I did see it mentioned but presumed the writer was talking about the rear door to my basement which we sealed.

That door was covered with wood though, not steel. If you can provide more details re the steel door I will reply to them.

I posted a link to a video that I say proves that a policeman faked a document. That one video together with the bit in my first documentary regarding the investigation suggests that something is amiss.

Best regards

Alan
 
Thank you Alan for your detailed response!

I must admit, I was starting to chalk you down as some kind of monomanic curtain twitcher who had returned to the UK somewhat disorientated after a period abroad. But you have gone up a lot in my estimation. You are taking your time to respond to all our enquiries and have so far been respectful of differing opinions. Also your background seems quite admirable.

But I am still a long way away from being convinced of your explanation for the phenomenon you describe.

I do agree that there is enough here to warrant further investigation - if not by the police, then by people with the technology and know-how to really get to the bottom of it, figuratively and literally.

So I hope that you will stay with us Alan.

There are some clever and knowledgeable people on here (I don't count myself as one of them) Perhaps someone will be able to suggest an alternative explanation for this mystery (which is what we should all want) or if not that, some pointers as to how someone could proceed with further investigations.

I hope you will not let our instinctive scepticism to turn you against us.

You need to understand that this scepticism is borne of weary experience. We have had people come on here and: claim to have a close up recent shot of the Loch Ness Monster (but never provide it),or to have personally known the family involved in the Enfield poltergeist case, or to be in regular contact with extraterrestrials from Zeta Reticuli...and so on. We have given all these people time and space that they would not have got elsewhere and all have slunk off in a huff when they realised that we were less than enthralled by them. And those that didn't turn out to be timewasting frauds turned out to be literally mentally ill.

So that's our background to this. So bear with us.
 
In keeping with the above I am going to suggest al alternative explanation for the phenomena that you describe.

Feel free to shoot it down in flames.

So the sound engineer who listened to the tapes seemed convinced that the speaking and screaming sequences where separate from the vehicle noises. He explained this- weirdly - as being due to the vehicle noises being recordings.

I have listened to quite a lot, but by no means all - I have a life- of the five hour recording you have on your website. Much of it (indeed the vast majority if it) seems to consist of the very muffled passing of cars and bikes on a fairly busy road.

I would be almost willing to stake my genitals on those sounds being just that: the sounds of a nearby street that had somehow carried into your basement. I have no idea of the technicalities of how this would happen but...Occam's razor suggests that it is just this that is happening. The idea that there is some sort of subterranean drive-way with that amount of traffic...well, sorry but it's just ludicrous, and I'm even surprised that someone of your intelligence could even countenance it.

But the voices are different, I grant you - and the sound engineer seemed to think so too. So let's imagine that, instead of an `underground facility`, being down there, there is instead a cavity, a small room or two, which is left over from one of the underground toilets, mineshafts or bomb shelters that you mention.

The locals know about it and know how to get down into it. It is therefore used for different purposes at different times. Sometimes post-pub drunks carry take outs down there to carry on with their revelry (which is what some of the dialogues sound like to me), sometimes people go down there to have sex, maybe couples sometimes wander down there to carry on with their rows out of earshot, and...sometimes foolhardy groups of children sneak down there and scare themselves silly by chasing each other around in the dark.

The flushing and machine noises are (as I suggested) the local sewage workers/water board/whatever flushing out the system (as I suggested earlier). The presence of some local ex-cons is just an indication that it's a fairly rough area. They have, presumably done their time and need not be feared any more of the countless other people-with-pasts that surround us daily without our knowing it.

Owzaboutthathen?
 
The 'underground road' is not, as one might imagine, a tarmac-ed, white lined, floodlit car tunnel like the A3 under Hindhead. In mining terminology a 'road' is just a slightly larger mine tunnel which is used to gain access to the current coal face from the shaft. As the face gets further and further away from the shaft the 'road' extends, until in Ammanford's case it was a mile or so long and contained a narrow gauge railway to transport the miners - it is a rough hewn, badly lit, narrow mining tunnel, at great depth. The mine is I believe abandoned and sealed. There would be no way of getting down to it except via a very deep vertical shaft capped at the top. No one is driving cars and motorbikes through it.
 
One doesn't even have to postulate any 'underground facility' for the above activities. Look at Google Earth and Streetview. Immediately adjoining the premises are a chip shop, then a take away Pizza, then a take away Chinese. Directly opposite is a bus station with several waiting bays / garage / depot with an automatic barrier. Down the side of the premises is a narrow initially covered alleyway to access the rear doors and the gardens - which were overgrown and derelict. At the end of the garden is a public tennis court in a large public park. People will be waiting for buses, getting takeaways and yobs will be larking around. Anyone exiting any of these facilities who want to conduct private business would naturally turn into the alleyway to get off the street - to have a row, smoke drugs, have a drunken argument, generally hang out. The park is presumably easily accessible after dark for the bored local teenagers to congregate in and lark about. There may even have been a way through from the alley into the park? It appears there was a door from the cellar into the garden - even 'boarded up' this would let through more noise than a wall. The police thought 'Oh God, here comes the local nutter again' and fudged a bit of paperwork - so the police do such things - who knew? The whole thing is a chimera.
 
Each to their own, but I think I am many miles away from 2 + 2 = 27.

Many people have said the same, scratch the surface a bit more, ask some more questions and you will get a better over view of what actually happened. Anyway, you asked for a sound engineers report so I have attached one for you.

Best regards

Alan
Well, except for the fact that the sound engineer, Simon Bolton (see above) was adamant that the voices came from within an enclosed space - enough so that he felt he could identify the dimensions of the rooms.

I know nothing about sounds and sound recording - so I think it makes sense to listen to those who do have some expertise in this field - even if their conclusions seem awkward.

Also, there is the question of why two mature, sane and functioning people, who have experienced life in different places, would be so spooked by street noises so as to move out of a property and live in a camper van.
 
Well, the initial covered portion of the alley, under the houses, is a very confined space, and then it is a narrow canyon.

No one is proof against monomania in the right circumstances.
 
Well, the initial covered portion of the alley, under the houses, is a very confined space, and then it is a narrow canyon.

No one is proof against monomania in the right circumstances.
Hmmm....I don't know. I just don't know.

Where's Alan when you need him?

I'd like to ask him if his wife and himself were aware of the ex-cons in their local area (and the nature of their convictions) prior to hearing the noises (whatever they may be). Could it have been this that set their minds down the path of thinking about drug factories and child abuse?
 
Why they abandoned the house and took to the van is I think because not unnaturally they got their neighbour's backs up, especially the Nail Bar and the adjoining vacant premises. There is some indication there was a campaign of harassment against them (possibly by of criminal elements) - eg his Rolls Royce getting scratched.
 
. The mine is I believe abandoned and sealed. There would be no way of getting down to it except via a very deep vertical shaft capped at the top. No one is driving cars and motorbikes through it.
Is it this one? http://tonygostling.blogspot.com/2008/09/ammanford-no-1-colliery-top-works-or.html
2.JPG
 
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The 'underground road' is not, as one might imagine, a tarmac-ed, white lined, floodlit car tunnel like the A3 under Hindhead. In mining terminology a 'road' is just a slightly larger mine tunnel which is used to gain access to the current coal face from the shaft. As the face gets further and further away from the shaft the 'road' extends, until in Ammanford's case it was a mile or so long and contained a narrow gauge railway to transport the miners - it is a rough hewn, badly lit, narrow mining tunnel, at great depth. The mine is I believe abandoned and sealed. There would be no way of getting down to it except via a very deep vertical shaft capped at the top. No one is driving cars and motorbikes through it.

Lets have a look at a video that is on YouTube that shows the men inside the mine.

I think it is perhaps better to stick with evidence and facts, if any exists


Best regards

Alan
 
This is another

View attachment 49164

Have a look inside the mine it is actually quite big
Underground at Betws Mine - YouTube



Best regards

Alan
Thank you Alan for your detailed response!

I must admit, I was starting to chalk you down as some kind of monomanic curtain twitcher who had returned to the UK somewhat disorientated after a period abroad. But you have gone up a lot in my estimation. You are taking your time to respond to all our enquiries and have so far been respectful of differing opinions. Also your background seems quite admirable.

But I am still a long way away from being convinced of your explanation for the phenomenon you describe.

I do agree that there is enough here to warrant further investigation - if not by the police, then by people with the technology and know-how to really get to the bottom of it, figuratively and literally.

So I hope that you will stay with us Alan.

There are some clever and knowledgeable people on here (I don't count myself as one of them) Perhaps someone will be able to suggest an alternative explanation for this mystery (which is what we should all want) or if not that, some pointers as to how someone could proceed with further investigations.

I hope you will not let our instinctive scepticism to turn you against us.

You need to understand that this scepticism is borne of weary experience. We have had people come on here and: claim to have a close up recent shot of the Loch Ness Monster (but never provide it),or to have personally known the family involved in the Enfield poltergeist case, or to be in regular contact with extraterrestrials from Zeta Reticuli...and so on. We have given all these people time and space that they would not have got elsewhere and all have slunk off in a huff when they realised that we were less than enthralled by them. And those that didn't turn out to be timewasting frauds turned out to be literally mentally ill.

So that's our background to this. So bear with us.
Thanks for the introduction.

I guess it raises the question, am I a time wasting fraud or mentally ill?

But yes, I get where your coming from and its good of you to explain.

Over the last three and a half years I have been asked many questions, if I was on the other side of this I guess I would not believe it either, but I was just the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I will try to reply to all questions where I can

Best regards

Alan
 
Why they abandoned the house and took to the van is I think because not unnaturally they got their neighbour's backs up, especially the Nail Bar and the adjoining vacant premises. There is some indication there was a campaign of harassment against them (possibly by of criminal elements) - eg his Rolls Royce getting scratched.
And then again we could stick with facts.

I am not sure if this is meant to be a joke, or maybe sarcasm, but I thought I would reply.

I have never owned a Rolls Royce, would you care to qualify your comments?

Best regards

Alan
 
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