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Noises In My Lane: Audible Strangeness In Ammanford

Wolstan Dixie said:
I am confused as to whether Alan thinks the mine(s) have any relevance? If so, then it is obviously essential to obtain plans of them to see exactly where they are. All mines on closure have to deposit plans, which should be obtainable. Coal mining essentially collapses the area behind the face as the face progresses, resulting in subsidence at the surface - for this reason my belief is that they avoid built up areas, and even individual buildings - it seems unlikely they operated under Ammanford itself.
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To be honest, whether it's mines or not, I would still want to see evidence from other locations.
 
catseye said:
And this is why I think someone should try making recordings in some buildings in the surrounding area. Because I suspect there are tunnels either under the area or nearby and they are acting to funnel sound from various locations. If the same noises can be heard (or recorded) elsewhere, then this may well be the case. Simply recording in one location only doesn't give us any way to triangulate.
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Agreed it would be useful.

I suspect that there are other tunnels too.

However, would if follow that if the sounds are only recordable in the basement of my former house, that the source of the noises is either directly under that spot or deep enough not to be heard elsewhere?

We did not record in just one location, most occasions we used four recorders.

I agree with the idea of triangulation, but triangulation does not have to occur on a level field.

As an example, triangulation can be used to calculate depth.

I conducted many experiments before coming to the conclusion that the noises were coming from underneath the basement floor of my former house.

Here are some of the points I used:

The front of the house on both the ground and first floor of the house
The rear of the house in the basement, on the ground floor and on the first floor.
In the very front of the alleyway (the recorder was in the communications box just as you go into the lane)

The rear garden (pointing towards the house).
Out of open windows (pointing towards the bus station at the front and the park at the rear)
In both drains (there are two separate drains in the alleyway)

On the steel lintels inside the property
On all the old exposed lead or other pipes.
Attached to the incoming water pipe.

In the shafts of the two chimneys that service the property
In the loft area (front, middle and rear)
In the old building at the rear of the property

For anyone that is still with me here are some very approx. measurements.

The house is around 4 meters wide and 18 meters long
The old building to the rear is around 4 meters wide and 8 meters long
The rear garden of the property is around 4 meters wide and 6 meters long

The loft area runs from the front of the house to the rear of the house (it is a long loft with three access points)
The ceiling heights are around 2,5 meters.
The loft is about 1.8 meters high but sloped to either side

From these measurements (and please remember I used exact ones) triangulation is possible,
for instance:

The distance from the front of the loft, the point directly below and the far of the garden

There are of course many more calculation that can be made, I made many calculations and tests before coming
to the conclusion that the noises were coming from below. I even attempted triangulation using parabolic shields
on the recorders.

There are a few things that I noticed that I consider odd and I thought I would share them with everyone and see if
they have any ideas:

The first is the orientation of two of the steel lintels that have been used to strengthen the house.

We found three of these that span the width of the house,

The top one has been installed incorrectly, and lies on its side.

The second one is fine but unusually there is a third lintel in the basement

It sits on the floor of the basement nearest the back wall of the nail bar and has been encased in concrete,
lintels are normally seen above windows and doors, or to strengthen for loads.

But this one sits at floor level in the basement.

Secondly the rear garden, it is odd because even though it is land locked and as such has no obvious value
other that as a rear garden, it was previously sold and did not form part of my former property when I bought it.

Apologies if this post is a bit long.

If this does interest anyone let me know and I will dig out the old plans for the house

Best regards

Alan
 
Kondoru said:
Yes, didnt think of that.

If you want to locate the source of the sounds, you will need recordings from several different locations.

two at least
Click to expand...
Agreed it would be useful.

I suspect that there are other tunnels too.

However, would if follow that if the sounds are only recordable in the basement of my former house, that the source of the noises is either directly under that spot or deep enough not to be heard elsewhere?

We did not record in just one location, most occasions we used four recorders.

I agree with the idea of triangulation, but triangulation does not have to occur on a level field.

As an example, triangulation can be used to calculate depth.

I conducted many experiments before coming to the conclusion that the noises were coming from underneath the basement floor of my former house.

Here are some of the points I used:

The front of the house on both the ground and first floor of the house
The rear of the house in the basement, on the ground floor and on the first floor.
In the very front of the alleyway (the recorder was in the communications box just as you go into the lane)

The rear garden (pointing towards the house).
Out of open windows (pointing towards the bus station at the front and the park at the rear)
In both drains (there are two separate drains in the alleyway)

On the steel lintels inside the property
On all the old exposed lead or other pipes.
Attached to the incoming water pipe.

In the shafts of the two chimneys that service the property
In the loft area (front, middle and rear)
In the old building at the rear of the property

For anyone that is still with me here are some very approx. measurements.

The house is around 4 meters wide and 18 meters long
The old building to the rear is around 4 meters wide and 8 meters long
The rear garden of the property is around 4 meters wide and 6 meters long

The loft area runs from the front of the house to the rear of the house (it is a long loft with three access points)
The ceiling heights are around 2,5 meters.
The loft is about 1.8 meters high but sloped to either side

From these measurements (and please remember I used exact ones) triangulation is possible,
for instance:

The distance from the front of the loft, the point directly below and the far of the garden

There are of course many more calculation that can be made, I made many calculations and tests before coming
to the conclusion that the noises were coming from below. I even attempted triangulation using parabolic shields
on the recorders.

There are a few things that I noticed that I consider odd and I thought I would share them with everyone and see if
they have any ideas:

The first is the orientation of two of the steel lintels that have been used to strengthen the house.

We found three of these that span the width of the house,

The top one has been installed incorrectly, and lies on its side.

The second one is fine but unusually there is a third lintel in the basement

It sits on the floor of the basement nearest the back wall of the nail bar and has been encased in concrete,
lintels are normally seen above windows and doors, or to strengthen for loads.

But this one sits at floor level in the basement.

Secondly the rear garden, it is odd because even though it is land locked and as such has no obvious value
other that as a rear garden, it was previously sold and did not form part of my former property when I bought it.

Apologies if this post is a bit long.

If this does interest anyone let me know and I will dig out the old plans for the house

Best regards

Alan
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
I am confused as to whether Alan thinks the mine(s) have any relevance? If so, then it is obviously essential to obtain plans of them to see exactly where they are. All mines on closure have to deposit plans, which should be obtainable. Coal mining essentially collapses the area behind the face as the face progresses, resulting in subsidence at the surface - for this reason my belief is that they avoid built up areas, and even individual buildings - it seems unlikely they operated under Ammanford itself.
Click to expand...

Good point. I do not know if the mines have any relevance or part to play in this matter.

There are plans available but a lot are quite inaccurate.

The old mines, the underground toilets and the old air shelters have just been suggestions along the way.

There are different types of mining.

Coal mining can, but does not always, cause subsidence.

As the miner dug the seam out, pit props were used to support the roof of the mine.

If it collapsed the area behind it as the face progressed, how would the miner get out?

In our investigation, we found four wooden poles about the size of pit props, two were leaning against the
side of the property next doors, and two were leaning against a church wall were we once theorised a tunnel
entrance was.

Best regards

Alan
 
Is it possible that the property (and perhaps also the adjoining property) had a sub-basement that was no longer accessible?
Maybe the adjoining property had access and had knocked through the boundary wall to make a larger sub-basement?
Maybe it was used for storage and accommodation?
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
Err - let's be realistic - how are you going to persuade other people to dig 1.5 metre holes in their basements and drop microphones down them for 3 days?
Click to expand...

If people believe the story, or even think that it might be true or have some merit, then they are likely to want to help.

If you bear in mind the seriousness of the noises recorded and what they might well represent, wouldn't you want to help out?

They do not need to dig holes either, just placing recorders might be enough.

Let me explain the two shafts in more detail so you have a better context.

When I first thought the noises were coming from the basement I looked in the basement and could see a black dust in several places in the back wall, and what looked like small holes.

I could not get to the area though as there was a lot of stock that was destined for the charity in the way, there was loads of it, we had bought loads of stuff very cheaply from a local shop that had closed down.

It took awhile but all the stock was put in black plastic sacks and strewn all over the house so we could get at that wall and the basement floor.

When I was able to get to the wall, I noticed there were actually three places were dust had appeared.

In two of them there was quite a bit of dust and a gap had appeared as if the wall had moved.

I carefully removed any loose bricks in the wall and then I started to remove what was behind them.

It took ages, at one point I was using an old fork and a spoon, a fork to loosen the material and a spoon to remove it.

There seemed to be some form of shaft behind the wall, I dug out as much as I could.

I then got a hoover and cut the nozzle off it.

I poked the hose into the holes and turned it on, I had to empty it often but eventually I was able to get the full
length of the hose into the cavity behind the wall in both holes.

I was wondering how deep it was so I measured the hose, if memory serves me correctly, it was 1.6 meters long,

Of course the cavity or shaft might be deeper than that.

Best regards

Alan
 
Mythopoeika said:
Is it possible that the property (and perhaps also the adjoining property) had a sub-basement that was no longer accessible?
Maybe the adjoining property had access and had knocked through the boundary wall to make a larger sub-basement?
Maybe it was used for storage and accommodation?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is possible. If you read my previous post it would also be a possible reason that there is a lintel lying on the floor in the basement of my former house, I have always thought that it might actually be there because it is supporting something.

Many people that have visited the house have spoken of noises that seem initially to be coming from inside the house, even though they are the only ones there.

A common one was the sound of someone walking up stairs, usually heard late at night. I have heard this myself and I was convinced that someone was actually inside the house, but no one was.

Best regards

Alan
 
Alan Tait Ammanford said:
Yes, it is possible. If you read my previous post it would also be a possible reason that there is a lintel lying on the floor in the basement of my former house, I have always thought that it might actually be there because it is supporting something.

Many people that have visited the house have spoken of noises that seem initially to be coming from inside the house, even though they are the only ones there.

A common one was the sound of someone walking up stairs, usually heard late at night. I have heard this myself and I was convinced that someone was actually inside the house, but no one was.

Best regards

Alan
Click to expand...
Well it seems to me like you're over-complicating the whole issue then. There isn't any tunnels or criminals, it's simply GHOSTS!
 
XEPER_ said:
Well it seems to me like you're over-complicating the whole issue then. There isn't any tunnels or criminals, it's simply GHOSTS!
Click to expand...

And I guess that's why your a fictional author, would you agree with me that a Police officer faking a document to cover up the activities of Ghosts, would be a tad unusual?

Best regards

Alan
 
I've only just listened to those noises and yep, they're pretty disturbing. If they were genuinely recorded in a basement I think I'd be expecting some kind of police investigation too. It does NOT sound like kids playing at a swimming pool, or messing about.
 
Alan Tait Ammanford said:
And I guess that's why your a fictional author, would you agree with me that a Police officer faking a document to cover up the activities of Ghosts, would be a tad unusual?

Best regards

Alan
Click to expand...
Well, yes, and I was actually joking. But seriously, if you heard footsteps and thought someone was in the house and there wasn't....What explanation do you have for it, other than supernatural?
 
XEPER_ said:
Well, yes, and I was actually joking. But seriously, if you heard footsteps and thought someone was in the house and there wasn't....What explanation do you have for it, other than supernatural?
Click to expand...

And I got that you were joking, there have been quite a few messages between us now.

I am sure Criminality has taken place, although I would prefer to be wrong on this one.

There are many parts of this story that at first seem implausible until you scratch the surface a bit.

I am putting together another video with some new information that will prove criminality did take place.

I looked at your website, I like the graphics on the covers.

My point would be this, you are in to that side of things and are more likely to be pre-disposed to
believe in the super natural (feel free to contradict me if I am way off here).

But in everything that I and others have discovered that we can prove, or that we know, is true, there is
a second series if incidents that have not yet been explained.

Many people have heard someone running in the loft even though it is only high enough for a child to run in.

Two of us have searched that loft, there is nowhere that someone could hide, and there was no one there.

I know not many people watch my <awful> documentaries but that bit is briefly mentioned by one of the speakers.

Someone seems to walk up and down stairs from somewhere below the building.

Then there is the sound of the motorcycle, some of the bike sounds do sound like they are bikes in a tunnel because of
the echo, but some of the ones I have are far too loud.

The louder ones sound (literally) like the motorbike is in
my kitchen, when it revs I would need to have been standing next to it for it to be so loud.

There are other oddities too that are yet unexplained.

Some of it is definitely criminality but some of it is still unexplained.

Best regards

Alan
 
XEPER_ said:
I've only just listened to those noises and yep, they're pretty disturbing. If they were genuinely recorded in a basement I think I'd be expecting some kind of police investigation too. It does NOT sound like kids playing at a swimming pool, or messing about.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but if you take into account the policeman faked that document (there are others too) perhaps it could be the case that the matter is being covered up?

And bear in mind it was not just me that recorded those noises, nine people who recorded noises in that house talk about them in the documentary, they were genuinely recorded in that basement, we have some that are worse than those too.

I looked at some of your old posts briefly and saw the ones about magick.

One of Aleister Crowley's book was mentioned in the following article.

Kidwelly is not that far from Ammanford, others have noted that both have Castles that are
rumoured to have tunnels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-12677043

Best regards

Alan
 
Alan - you mention plans of your house - I haven't previously brought this up because I assumed such didn't exist. If you have plans showing your house and the nail bar - basement, ground, first and attic, that would be incredibly useful, as I am still unclear as to the exact layout -eg does the basement extend under the nail bar; were your holes in which you put the microphones vertical or horizontal. Can you find some way of posing them please?
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
Alan - you mention plans of your house - I haven't previously brought this up because I assumed such didn't exist. If you have plans showing your house and the nail bar - basement, ground, first and attic, that would be incredibly useful, as I am still unclear as to the exact layout -eg does the basement extend under the nail bar; were your holes in which you put the microphones vertical or horizontal. Can you find some way of posing them please?
Click to expand...
And from the front

1639426068436.png
 
Well - received OK, but I shall have to study them, they are clearly quite old, and not too clear in places. Eg they seem to show a ground floor passage across the back of the nail bar, linking in to the main passage at right angles?
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
Well - received OK, but I shall have to study them, they are clearly quite old, and not too clear in places. Eg they seem to show a ground floor passage across the back of the nail bar, linking in to the main passage at right angles?
Click to expand...

They are old and to be fair, they were not very well drawn.

The title deed was also badly written, I had to write to the land registry to get parts of altered.

I will have a look tomorrow and see if I have any clearer copies.

I think perhaps I need to do a few drawings to explain them better

Best regards

Alan
 
XEPER_ said:
I've only just listened to those noises and yep, they're pretty disturbing. If they were genuinely recorded in a basement I think I'd be expecting some kind of police investigation too. It does NOT sound like kids playing at a swimming pool, or messing about.

And he is not the only one that has that opinion.

Here is an extract from a podcast that appeared in as a guest in 2019, the host has the same opinion.

The extract is under 2 minutes long, the full interview is available if anyone wants it:


If you listen to the noises recorded and form the same opinion, what would, or could, you do about them?

In the early days I though this matter would be resolved very quickly, I reported everything to the police, then
I started to realise that everything was not as it seemed.

When I first reported the matter the police did nothing, it was only later after many weeks had passed that in
frustration I reported it to Avon and Somerset police among others.

Then an investigation of sorts took place, the police made an appointment to view inside the house next door
that appointment was around 16 weeks after my first report.

The police say they did not find anything, but what was covered up was would have been obvious, in an effort
to point this out, I made our first documentary.

In the documentary the investigating officer misses out a lot of the evidence that was available to him, he forgot
to mention for instance the large green safe that sits behind the front door of the property next door, or the
letters from John Francis that say exactly the same as I was saying.

There was so much damage to one of the side walls that I was able to push a cable tie all the way into the wall,
(there are picture's of this in the documentary.

That documentary is at

Of course when you take all of this into consideration together with the fact that the police started faking documents
like the one seen here
you started wondering what's going on.

The view that the recordings could be of child abuse, trafficking, a paedophile group or people being killed, has appeared
in many comments on our social media.

Personally I try to avoid the speculation, although it can be hard given what would appear to be evidence, and hold out
for a proper investigation into this matter.

Of all the theories put forward, I think that the most believable would be some form of extreme "breaking house".

Back to what people actually did when the penny started to drop, most complained, some shared the noises with their friends,
a small number of people decided to go to the house in an effort to record noises for themselves.

Nine of them describe what they discovered in our latest documentary


Feel free to ask any questions or put me to any test

Something is wrong here

Best regards

Alan
 
Alan Tait Ammanford said:
XEPER_ said:
I've only just listened to those noises and yep, they're pretty disturbing. If they were genuinely recorded in a basement I think I'd be expecting some kind of police investigation too. It does NOT sound like kids playing at a swimming pool, or messing about.

And he is not the only one that has that opinion.

Here is an extract from a podcast that appeared in as a guest in 2019, the host has the same opinion.

The extract is under 2 minutes long, the full interview is available if anyone wants it:

Click to expand...
Well, that's some different noises from the ones I heard before, in your compilation of clips that lasts about a minute and a half on the website. I have to say, that clip you've posted there DOES sound like kids playing to me, certainly in the first half of it.
But the ones in the clip that starts with the lady saying about the "baby's/babies died" (is it plural?! Terrifying to think) really did sound disturbing to me.
 
And for anyone that is interested in this matter, Christine has kept a series of diaries from 2018 to date,
she is busy typing them into a word document, when she has finished typing them up they will be available
to anyone that wants them

1639474303677.jpeg


The Diary has seen better days, its a bit worn

Best Regards

Alan
 
XEPER_ said:
Well, that's some different noises from the ones I heard before, in your compilation of clips that lasts about a minute and a half on the website. I have to say, that clip you've posted there DOES sound like kids playing to me, certainly in the first half of it.
But the ones in the clip that starts with the lady saying about the "baby's/babies died" (is it plural?! Terrifying to think) really did sound disturbing to me.
Click to expand...

Personally I think it could be either, but on the balance of probabilities given the other noises recorded and the time of the recordings, it it more likely to be disturbing than not.

One person suggested that the underground facility was quite large.

The other thing to take into consideration is the proximity from the nearest school or park.

In many ways it is better if people just disagree on what some of the noises are, and focus on how they could be recorded at that location.

The noise of the gunshot with screaming between the shots is one that disturbs me.

The investigating officer said that the recording with the baby/babies died in it is the voice of a child, that decided that the matter did not merit further investigation.

The officer also made to reference to the first words that can be heard.

Other recordings also have references to baby/babies, when you consider that the noises were recorded in a non residential area and the time of night, it is worrying.

This is why we have put so much effort into this and believe that it does merit a full investigation.

I have just found the old plans to the house, I will see if I can scan them and get them up later

Best regards

Alan PS I posted this so that the clarification that you made about the recordings is easier for people to follow
 
Just ignoring for a second WHAT might be producing these noises.

Surely any level of noise that can be heard from inside the house, would come under noise pollution laws? If your life was regularly being disturbed by extraneous noise (whatever the origin), then doesn't it come under the local Council's Noise department? Especially if it's anything to do with 'noisy neighbours'? Has the local council given you a 'noise diary' to fill in (times, noises etc)? Or a meter to record the level of the noise?

In my experience, the police will push any incidences of unsociable hours noise onto the council to solve, they won't get involved.
 
catseye said:
Just ignoring for a second WHAT might be producing these noises.

Surely any level of noise that can be heard from inside the house, would come under noise pollution laws? If your life was regularly being disturbed by extraneous noise (whatever the origin), then doesn't it come under the local Council's Noise department? Especially if it's anything to do with 'noisy neighbours'? Has the local council given you a 'noise diary' to fill in (times, noises etc)? Or a meter to record the level of the noise?

In my experience, the police will push any incidences of unsociable hours noise onto the council to solve, they won't get involved.
Click to expand...

The noises can not be heard inside the house with the human ear, nor was our life being regularly disturbed by "extraneous noise".

These noises were only discovered when the recorders were used, bar the noises we heard on the first night and recorded on the phone.

The noises of the motorbikes and screaming was only hear after the recordings were listened to.

Best regards

Alan
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
Well - received OK, but I shall have to study them, they are clearly quite old, and not too clear in places. Eg they seem to show a ground floor passage across the back of the nail bar, linking in to the main passage at right angles?
Click to expand...

Christine manages to find the original office copies of the plan as supplied to us by the Land registry.

I have made the plans available via our website.

I have tried to show the layout on the ground floor so it is easier to understand, please let me know
how you get on with these documents, I would be grateful for any ideas of how they can be improved so
that everyone can easily understand the layout of the building

Best regards

Alan
 
That's very useful - thanks.

So the alleyway terminates at the steps down to the basement door? It does not go through to the garden? Or can you get through the 'derelict building'?

Does the alleyway branch behind Sophia Nails still extend further left to the outside behind no 18?

And you don't extend over the alley at the front - that belongs to 22?

Sorry to be a pain, but could you indicate exactly where you dug the holes, and if they were vertical or horizontal please?
 
Wolstan Dixie said:
That's very useful - thanks.

So the alleyway terminates at the steps down to the basement door? It does not go through to the garden? Or can you get through the 'derelict building'?

Does the alleyway branch behind Sophia Nails still extend further left to the outside behind no 18?

And you don't extend over the alley at the front - that belongs to 22?

Sorry to be a pain, but could you indicate exactly where you dug the holes, and if they were vertical or horizontal please?
Click to expand...

The more you ask questions the easier it is for me to let everyone know the layout, far from being a pain your input is appreciated and useful. It helps me put extra bits on the website and saves people asking for them.

At the rear of the alleyway is a flight of stairs, they bend around the back of the house.

When you get to the bottom, there is a boarded up floor to the left, this used to be an entrance to the basement.

To the right there is another alleyway, it leads to the garden (but it was owned by someone else).

As you walked along that alleyway it opens up to the right hand side and provides access to the disused building.

The branch that goes in the direction of number 18 was blocked up, but when we first bought he property,
the shop owners tried to say that the basements that were under our house were actually their property and
also wanted the wall the blocked that part of the alleyway knocked down.

When we put the property up for sale, someone demolished that wall before it was sold.

The window that sits above the alleyway is that of a room that belongs to 22 College Street, that part of the
property is known as a "flying freehold".

Opposite the branch in the alleyway that goes towards number 18, is an old wooden doorway that led into
number 22.

The recorders were horizontal to the wall.

In the first photos I shared with you, you can see two black arrows that I have drawn on the plan.

That is where the recorders were.

Somewhere I have photos of the recorders we used and pictures inside the basement.

I also have a short video that shows the lane, I will try and find them out.

Can I ask where you are located? I am not asking your street address etc but just an idea of the area you are in (and if you don't want to answer that one its fine)

If I missed anything just remind me:)

Best regards

Alan
 
London - I am an architect so the plans interest me.

So to be clear - the holes were not dug downwards through the cellar floor? So the recordings were not made UNDER the cellar floor, but rather horizontally towards Sophia Nails basement?
 
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