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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

Analogue Boy said:
How do you deal with flow control when cars will need at least an hour for a charge?
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As far as I can gather, the plan is for all cars to be charged at home, most likely overnight, thus avoiding the need for places en route for charging except for on longer journeys, whence there would be chargers located en masse at motorway service areas, the idea being that people wouldn't mind taking half an hour out of their trip to get 80% charge.
I think I saw an article (referring to this being the case in the long term) on the BBC website titled something like "The death of petrol stations".
Also an article about "Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think".
(The BBC do seem to be trying to push it onto the agenda more and more, but that is probably more due to the kind of people that work in New Broadcasting House)
As I mentioned upthread though, there are many other forms of transport that will require an ongoing access to liquid fuels of one sort or another though.

Aha ... here you go;
Why it's the end of the road for petrol stations
Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think
 
Trevp666 said:
As far as I can gather, the plan is for all cars to be charged at home, most likely overnight, thus avoiding the need for places en route for charging except for on longer journeys, whence there would be chargers located en masse at motorway service areas, the idea being that people wouldn't mind taking half an hour out of their trip to get 80% charge.
I think I saw an article (referring to this being the case in the long term) on the BBC website titled something like "The death of petrol stations".
Also an article about "Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think".
(The BBC do seem to be trying to push it onto the agenda more and more, but that is probably more due to the kind of people that work in New Broadcasting House)
As I mentioned upthread though, there are many other forms of transport that will require an ongoing access to liquid fuels of one sort or another though.

Aha ... here you go;
Why it's the end of the road for petrol stations
Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think
Click to expand...
Sure, I don't mind waiting around for half an hour each day at a charging station.
Sure, I don't mind shelling out an absolute f***ing fortune for a car.
Sure, I don't mind doing without plastics (a side-consequence of killing the oil industry).
What stuff are these luvvies smoking, again?
 
Mythopoeika said:
What stuff are these luvvies smoking, again?
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Without a hint of Irony, probably cannabis, which we used to grow in this country as Hemp for making ropes mainly, but also nowadays Hemp seed and 'Flax' are apparently 'health foods', and the fibres from Hemp plants are used in 'new age' products as a strengthening fibre similar in use to 'glass fibre'.
So their circular argument would be that their smoking weed is a sustainable product industry I expect.
 
Trevp666 said:
Without a hint of Irony, probably cannabis, which we used to grow in this country as Hemp for making ropes mainly, but also nowadays Hemp seed and 'Flax' are apparently 'health foods', and the fibres from Hemp plants are used in 'new age' products as a strengthening fibre similar in use to 'glass fibre'.
So their circular argument would be that their smoking weed is a sustainable product industry I expect.
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What on Earth will they do when they can't get hold of that awful stuff mixed with oil ('squidgy black')? I mean, there won't be any oil to smuggle it in with. Ha ha!
 
The 'squidgy black' was only squidgy because it was created by people rubbing the sticky buds between their hands to extract all the er, 'goodness', and then scraping that off.

Er....I mean....probably....
 
Trevp666 said:
As far as I can gather, the plan is for all cars to be charged at home, most likely overnight, thus avoiding the need for places en route for charging except for on longer journeys, whence there would be chargers located en masse at motorway service areas, the idea being that people wouldn't mind taking half an hour out of their trip to get 80% charge.
I think I saw an article (referring to this being the case in the long term) on the BBC website titled something like "The death of petrol stations".
Also an article about "Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think".
(The BBC do seem to be trying to push it onto the agenda more and more, but that is probably more due to the kind of people that work in New Broadcasting House)
As I mentioned upthread though, there are many other forms of transport that will require an ongoing access to liquid fuels of one sort or another though.

Aha ... here you go;
Why it's the end of the road for petrol stations
Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think
Click to expand...
One thing i not sure about, with regard to electric cars, do the electrics in the vehicle, lights, radio etc run direct from the batteries or is thete some sort of dynamo to keep the charge topped up for that purpose? because you would seriously reduce your range if you are travelling at night, listening to the radio with the aircon on
 
Souleater said:
One thing i not sure about, with regard to electric cars, do the electrics in the vehicle, lights, radio etc run direct from the batteries or is thete some sort of dynamo to keep the charge topped up for that purpose? because you would seriously reduce your range if you are travelling at night, listening to the radio with the aircon on
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I believe that EVs have a regular 12V battery as well. How the charge in it is maintained I don't know, but I would guess some kind of dynamo. I seem to remember reading something on the Honda website about their EVs that explained about how the batteries worked.
 
You'd have to speak to an expert on EVs to find out stuff like that.
I expect that different manufacturers have differing approaches.
And a 'dynamo' is an ancient technology and I doubt there would be much use for one on a modern vehicle.
Most recharging of the battery pack while on the move in a purely electric vehicle is carried out through 'regenerative braking'.
Hybrids will use a combination of a small internal combustion engine plus a medium size battery pack working in harmony to provide the best sort of motive power for the situation, so a purely electric drive around town at low speeds, with the I.C.E kicking in when needed.
I can't imagine there would be much call for an 'old style' of 12v lead-acid battery on either of those when there is already a much better bank of lithium-ion batteries available on the vehicle, except maybe for the I.C.E to start from, and even then I expect the Li-Ion pack would be able to provide enough punch for that.
And I do believe that all of the electrical items on a purely electric car do indeed take their power from the on-board power-cells, so yes, using anything electrical would drain the power faster and reduce your range.
I can't imagine what sort of range you would get if it was a cold and rainy winter night and you have to drive 300 miles somewhere, lights on, wipers, heater, and possibly the radio too.
I expect that people will start describing long journeys including how many stops they had to make on the way.
"Yeah, we came up the M5, along the M4, onto the M25 then the M1 to get here.11 hours for a 5 stop journey...not too bad...."
 
Here's the problem...
Suppose you drive off and the car comes to a stop after running out of power, miles away from a charging point.
Do that in a petrol vehicle, and all you need to do is walk off and get a canister of petrol, then bring it back to the car.
An electric vehicle will require a tow or some other support vehicle for a quick charge.
 
Indeed. I have seen leccy cars on the A1 doing 5mph in the slow lane. Proper dangerous. But then I guess "Blame the owners" for they must get a ton of warnings about range.
But then again, those would be the same people that would run out of petrol when they have perfectly functional fuel gauge I guess, and I have a word for those people - idiots.
Anyhoo.....I guess just park up and walk to a nearby shop and buy a big box of AAAs?
(Oh and you can't tow a leccy car that has run out of juice - you need to call a rescue service with a portable generator)
 
Trevp666 said:
Indeed. I have seen leccy cars on the A1 doing 5mph in the slow lane. Proper dangerous. But then I guess "Blame the owners" for they must get a ton of warnings about range.
But then again, those would be the same people that would run out of petrol when they have perfectly functional fuel gauge I guess, and I have a word for those people - idiots.
Anyhoo.....I guess just park up and walk to a nearby shop and buy a big box of AAAs?
(Oh and you can't tow a leccy car that has run out of juice - you need to call a rescue service with a portable generator)
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Or get a reeeeaaallly long charging lead you can unfurl all the way to the nearest charge point :hahazebs:
 
Maybe we'll see councils installing overhead wires similar to how trolleybuses used to work.
Then we could equip electric cars with a thing on their roof to pick-up the leccy?
But of course then the problem would be that you could only drive round in circles.
"Keep your foot on the pedal!"
1623513860502.png
 
How is it going to be possible for all cars to be charged at home? There’s a lot of two car families that can’t get parked in the same street. A woman up the hill is constantly annoying people around here by parking outside their house and leaving her car there for two weeks at a time. Some folks live in flats or tower blocks. What are they supposed to do? As I’ve said before, what changes will need to be made when everyone in the country gets home from work and plugs in their cars into the grid at the same time? How many power stations will need to be built? Who is planning the building of these power stations. Will they go in the green belt? What fuel will these power stations use? Where will it come from? Will it be green? Will it be a guaranteed continuous on-demand supply? Who will pay for all the infrastructure? Will the price of electricity have to go up to cover the loss of fuel duty and if so, is that fair on people who aren’t running a car? Will people replace a whole electric car when the battery dwindles? How will they perform in the middle of a freezing winter? What happens when you reach one of these mass charging points and there’s none vacant?

As you can see, I have a few questions but most of the push towards electric cars I see is based on a magic word of ‘green’ and how it’s all part of our rosy future. Try telling that to those poor kids currently digging the raw materials out of the ground with their bare hands.

I’m a long way from being convinced.
 
Mr. Banooka said:
I could be wrong, but I believe that EVs have a regular 12V battery as well. How the charge in it is maintained I don't know, but I would guess some kind of dynamo. I seem to remember reading something on the Honda website about their EVs that explained about how the batteries worked.
Click to expand...
I can't see any sense in using a dynamo or alternator to charge the battery, because that dynamo/alternator would be driven either directly by the electric motor or some other moving part driven by the primary battery. As a generator, like any mechanical device, is less than 100% efficient, it would be using more power (from the main batteries) than it generated (for the battery to power the lights). (This is why perpetual motion machines don't work.)

For a vehicle, the amount of power used by modern LED lights is negligible compared to the power need to accelerate the weight of the vehicle and occupants, and keep it moving.
 
Analogue Boy said:
How is it going to be possible...etc
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Indeed. What you're failing to recognise here is that the people who advocate all of this stuff live in a fantasy world in which everyone has as much parking space as they need, right outside their house, nobody lives in flats, everyone is wealthy enough to afford a brand new electric car, and the matter of generating the electricity is 'somebody elses problem'.
 
Mikefule said:
I can't see any sense in using a dynamo or alternator to charge the battery, because that dynamo/alternator would be driven either directly by the electric motor or some other moving part driven by the primary battery. As a generator, like any mechanical device, is less than 100% efficient, it would be using more power (from the main batteries) than it generated (for the battery to power the lights). (This is why perpetual motion machines don't work.)

For a vehicle, the amount of power used by modern LED lights is negligible compared to the power need to accelerate the weight of the vehicle and occupants, and keep it moving.
Click to expand...

Here we go - it seems that a DC to DC converter is used to charge the 12V battery from the traction battery.

https://greentransportation.info/ev-charging/range-confidence/chap8-tech/charge-12v-battery.html
 
Trevp666 said:
Indeed. What you're failing to recognise here is that the people who advocate all of this stuff live in a fantasy world in which everyone has as much parking space as they need, right outside their house, nobody lives in flats, everyone is wealthy enough to afford a brand new electric car, and the matter of generating the electricity is 'somebody elses problem'.
Click to expand...
I actually have a ton more questions but hey. Basics first.
 
I can see the "flicker" of those "Curly" CFL bulbs. They give me a head ache. I prefer the LED bulbs.

My wife and I wintered in our RV in Montana shortly before I retired from the Air Force and the heat from those incandescent bulbs helped keep the underside of our toy hauler warm (I had boxed it in with insulating foam board.
 

California Walking a ‘Tight Rope’ as Hydropower Supply Fades​


The catastrophic drought that’s gripping the U.S. West is claiming a new victim: the hydropower dams that much of the region depends on for electricity supplies.

iu


Low water levels in key reservoirs mean that hydropower supplies are declining. One of the hardest hit areas is California, where output has tumbled to the lowest in more than five years. Nationally, the U.S. Energy Information Administration predicts electricity generation from conventional hydro sources will drop about 11% this year from 2020.

That’s at a time when electric grids across the West are already forecast to be stretched this summer as heat waves send power demand surging. With less hydropower, the challenge of meeting peak demand may get even tougher, especially in California. Over the past three years, the state has depended on hydro for almost 13% of its electric power.

https://news.yahoo.com/california-walking-tight-rope-hydropower-110000393.html

maximus otter
 
Analogue Boy said:
How is it going to be possible for all cars to be charged at home? There’s a lot of two car families that can’t get parked in the same street. A woman up the hill is constantly annoying people around here by parking outside their house and leaving her car there for two weeks at a time. Some folks live in flats or tower blocks. What are they supposed to do? As I’ve said before, what changes will need to be made when everyone in the country gets home from work and plugs in their cars into the grid at the same time? How many power stations will need to be built? Who is planning the building of these power stations. Will they go in the green belt? What fuel will these power stations use? Where will it come from? Will it be green? Will it be a guaranteed continuous on-demand supply? Who will pay for all the infrastructure? Will the price of electricity have to go up to cover the loss of fuel duty and if so, is that fair on people who aren’t running a car? Will people replace a whole electric car when the battery dwindles? How will they perform in the middle of a freezing winter? What happens when you reach one of these mass charging points and there’s none vacant?

As you can see, I have a few questions but most of the push towards electric cars I see is based on a magic word of ‘green’ and how it’s all part of our rosy future. Try telling that to those poor kids currently digging the raw materials out of the ground with their bare hands.

I’m a long way from being convinced.
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And there’s all the new builds being built with inadequate parking because they can squeeze some more expensive flats in. New builds should have car charging spaces built with them, if they are insisting on this as they are.
 
MorningAngel said:
This is interesting I’ve never even heard of E5 and now they are getting E10. It sounds better than all going over to electric cars. But reading on there are some down sides and not all cars can take it.

E10 petrol: What is it and can my car run it? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57585105
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Older cars won't tolerate the new formulation. It has several percent more ethanol in it, just to keep greenies happy.
The problem with ethanol is that it needs to be created somehow.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Older cars won't tolerate the new formulation. It has several percent more ethanol in it, just to keep greenies happy.
The problem with ethanol is that it needs to be created somehow.
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I did check my car and Nissan’s are ok from 2000. But I’m not sure about other makes, mine’s older than 2010.

That’s the trouble with any fuel the creation. I don’t believe they’ll be able to serve all these new electric cars with only green electricity.
 
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