Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,661
Reaction score
2,770
Points
164
Older cars won't tolerate the new formulation. It has several percent more ethanol in it, just to keep greenies happy.
The problem with ethanol is that it needs to be created somehow.
Looking through the popular brands most are good from the early 2000s (Volvo 1976!!!) and you don’t see many older cars on the road. There are some exceptions to certain editions in some makes. But I’m surprised how many would be ok.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
6,630
Reaction score
18,703
Points
299
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
All vehicles that use petrol will run on the E10, but the problem is that the plastics and metals used in the construction of most engines from more than about 10 years ago are subject to increased deterioration from exposure to the higher ethanol content.
The recommendation is that if you know you have put any E10 petrol in your older car that you should, as soon as possible, fill up with a tankful of an E5 petrol (which will still be available, AFAIK in the 'super' flavour) in order to dilute the ethanol content somewhat.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
6,630
Reaction score
18,703
Points
299
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
What about the E10 unicorns though? They'd be quite environmentally friendly wouldn't they? Plus they do rainbow coloured farts.
 

Lobeydosser

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
264
Reaction score
650
Points
114
Here's the problem...
Suppose you drive off and the car comes to a stop after running out of power, miles away from a charging point.
Do that in a petrol vehicle, and all you need to do is walk off and get a canister of petrol, then bring it back to the car.
An electric vehicle will require a tow or some other support vehicle for a quick charge.
Bit late, but I can actually answer that - one of the Nissan leafs at work was left with something turned on and it drained flat over a long weekend. Nothing could be done with it by the leasing company nor breakdown services.
In an amusing turn of events I was asked if I could either jump start it or "tow" start it with my landrover TD5 Defender (something I have done for several vehicles in the past including on one occasion a bus).
I said I thought that was probably not a good idea and this was confirmed by the "breakdown" man who came out to investigate.
It was taken away to have all it's batteries replaced (so we were told).
It never came back and was replaced by a new vehicle.
 

Lobeydosser

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
264
Reaction score
650
Points
114
The other problem with ethanol, as with bio diesel and mixes thereof is that newer vehicles have had fuel systems designed such that the seals and pumps either melt in it or alternatively sieze through lack of lubrication (or even both at the same time for bonus points). Also the embedded computer systems don't cope well with it as no one was motivated to make them sufficiently reprogramable or even do something sensible like have those be modular replaceable parts in the first place.
Many "properly" old engines will run it fairly fine, or indeed run on mixes with\of heating oil, chip fat, paint thinner, jet fuel, paraffin, shoe polish, moonshine etc and could be adjusted to allow for different mixes.
 
Last edited:

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
47,165
Reaction score
42,868
Points
334
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Bit late, but I can actually answer that - one of the Nissan leafs at work was left with something turned on and it drained flat over a long weekend. Nothing could be done with it by the leasing company nor breakdown services.
In an amusing turn of events I was asked if I could either jump start it or "tow" start it with my landrover TD5 Defender (something I have done for several vehicles in the past including on one occasion a bus).
I said I thought that was probably not a good idea and this was confirmed by the "breakdown" man who came out to investigate.
It was taken away to have all it's batteries replaced (so we were told).
It never came back and was replaced by a new vehicle.
Wow, a complete failure. Even more dramatic than I'd thought.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
6,630
Reaction score
18,703
Points
299
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Many "properly" old engines will run it fairly fine, or indeed run on mixes with\of heating oil, chip fat, paint thinner, jet fuel, paraffin, shoe polish, moonshine etc and could be adjusted to allow for different mixes.
IIRC we have Tanks which run on whatever fuel you happen to put in them (I'm not sure if that's all tanks or just our Challengers).
So that's diesel or petrol, ethanol, kerosene, chip fat, single malt whisky etc etc
 

Lobeydosser

Ephemeral Spectre
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
264
Reaction score
650
Points
114
IIRC we have Tanks which run on whatever fuel you happen to put in them (I'm not sure if that's all tanks or just our Challengers).
So that's diesel or petrol, ethanol, kerosene, chip fat, single malt whisky etc etc
Yes - though they actually run them on 100% Diesel.
This is why the Chieftan's engine gave such problems back in the day. All of Nato got together and said let's have a multi fuel tank - then quietly forgot about it as it was too expensive and went with regular engines instead - so Leopords and the like all ran on Diesel.
Poor old British Leyland though stuck at it and produced the L60.
See a more in depth explanation at https://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-Chieftain-tanks-engine-so-bad
They are fun to drive though, for my 50th birthday I went and had a day driving one of these - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV432
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,661
Reaction score
2,770
Points
164
2FC1717A-D012-4F7A-99FE-5B33B96A45E0.jpeg

Sorry if I’ve put this up before.
 

RaM

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
4,978
Points
164
Location
NW UK
Did you see the Guy Martin thing trying to beat the EV standing quarter mile record?
as part of the show he drove a lecky car up to John O Groats and back, he was getting
about just under 200 miles on a charge but on some chargers was paying £40 a charge,
My little Diesel will do 200 miles on £12 worth sod that.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
9,571
Reaction score
22,219
Points
334
People flatulate on about a Prius being able to do 52mpg. My little Japanese (petrol) shopping buggy can do that and more. And it’ll take me to the in-laws’ in Scotland, in an afternoon, for £40. And l can “charge” it anywhere.

Ban petrol car sales in 2030? We might as well turn Britain’s lights off, pull down the shutters, lock the door and hand the keys to the Chinese.

“[In 2020] China’s coal power capacity grew by a net 28.8 gigawatts. China built coal plants at such a frantic pace, to provide cheap power for its swelling industrial capacity, that some of its coal plants might never repay their construction and maintenance costs…”

https://www.breitbart.com/national-...er-in-2020-as-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/

- So make sure to turn your telly off Standby, and wash out your bean tins before putting them into the blue bin. The blue bin, mind, or you’ll get a snot-o-gram from the Council!

maximus otter
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
6,630
Reaction score
18,703
Points
299
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Did you see the Guy Martin thing trying to beat the EV standing quarter mile record?
as part of the show he drove a lecky car up to John O Groats and back, he was getting
about just under 200 miles on a charge but on some chargers was paying £40 a charge,
My little Diesel will do 200 miles on £12 worth sod that.
Yes. That was a good program.
They ramped up the battery pack and the way the motor uses the power etc etc, did all the tricks with aero and spraying glue on the track etc, only to watch Jay Leno beat the existing record on the day before, using a tesla.
Then Guy did his run in the Voltswagen but couldn't crack under (IIRC) 10.6 seconds.

Now I don't think I was the only person to spot that where he went wrong was using a leccy motor that only powered the rear wheels, as opposed to the tesla which puts drive to all 4 wheels.
A lot of the extra power guy had available to him was being lost through wheelspin at the back.

And on to the charging and range he had on the long trip to JoG.
That was a brand new car leant to him by the manufacturers so you can be sure that it was proper sorted, and under ideal conditions too, in the summertime, leaving early in the morning so he didn't have to contend with busy roads.
If he was trying to do the same journey in (lets say) an 8 year old Nissan Leaf that had 90,000 miles on the clock, in winter, leaving from London at 8.30am, I wouldn't expect his charge to get him further than Luton before having to stop to juice up.
Also I have seen the state of a lot of public recharge stations and TBH unless you're sticking to well frequented, well maintained stations, with multiple charge points, you're going to run into issues, similar to what Guy did, with poor charge rates, or ones that just don't work.
Plus not all cars use the same 'plugs'.

As Guy said - if you expect to only be driving around town without having to do any long runs then yes, buy an electric car, but if you've got long runs to do, don't buy one.....yet!

Indeed, the technology will improve over time (it already has over the past 10 years) and more, and better quality, charging stations will be created.
If the battery technology can be improved so that charge times are shorter and range is increased then we will really see them being adopted more quickly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RaM

RaM

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
2,476
Reaction score
4,978
Points
164
Location
NW UK
I really like the idea of a lecky car but they make no sense at all in my situation,
now if I won the lottery I'd have one and look on it as a challenge I just think
it's a money making game they are already flying the kite on how much extra
it will cost to heat your house when they ban gas heating, they have us all saving
power but still want to make the same profit so charge more and more for less.
The greens would have us back in the stone age, living in a cave, "something else I
strangely find attractive "but they wont want you to dig a new cave wile they due
to "there work being much to important" jet to a fresh country every 2 weeks
to attend conferences.
Do as I say not as I do.
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,562
Reaction score
14,678
Points
283
People flatulate on about a Prius being able to do 52mpg. My little Japanese (petrol) shopping buggy can do that and more. And it’ll take me to the in-laws’ in Scotland, in an afternoon, for £40. And l can “charge” it anywhere.

Ban petrol car sales in 2030? We might as well turn Britain’s lights off, pull down the shutters, lock the door and hand the keys to the Chinese.

“[In 2020] China’s coal power capacity grew by a net 28.8 gigawatts. China built coal plants at such a frantic pace, to provide cheap power for its swelling industrial capacity, that some of its coal plants might never repay their construction and maintenance costs…”

https://www.breitbart.com/national-...er-in-2020-as-the-rest-of-the-world-combined/

- So make sure to turn your telly off Standby, and wash out your bean tins before putting them into the blue bin. The blue bin, mind, or you’ll get a snot-o-gram from the Council!

maximus otter
I saw a section of a news report that stated that China wont meet its coal usage peak for another 5 years.
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,661
Reaction score
2,770
Points
164
Never mind going electric, where will we park? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56748346

Interesting article. They want to concentrate on more walking, cycling and public transport. But sometimes that isn’t feasible. What about the people not fit enough for walking or cycling and often public transport?

Also I walk to work most days but when I have a shift that ends at 10pm there’s no way I’m walking home. And an awful lot of jobs involving retail and hospitality have late finishes.

I do wonder though in a post Covid world if people will be traveling to work less (more working from home) and meetings less and they have discovered they can be done remotely. But people will still want a car for shopping (try lugging a weekly shop home on the bus or distribute it around a bike) and days out.
 

Analogue Boy

Bar 6
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
12,483
Reaction score
14,216
Points
314
Our company were sounding us out on a cycle to work scheme. I didn’t think it was a safe idea in a rural area with no cycle lanes, no pavements, deep ditches hidden at the side of the road and motorists who use country roads as if it’s the Nurburgring. It’s not exactly reassuring to keep passing bouquets, photos and mementoes at the scenes of past crashes either.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
9,571
Reaction score
22,219
Points
334
Sure, I don't mind waiting around for half an hour each day at a charging station.
Sure, I don't mind shelling out an absolute f***ing fortune for a car.
Sure, I don't mind doing without plastics (a side-consequence of killing the oil industry).
What stuff are these luvvies smoking, again?

"One of Extinction Rebellion’s (XR) founders has admitted that she drives a diesel car...

Dr Gail Bradbrook said that she drove the environmentally damaging vehicle because she cannot afford an electric one..."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/23/extinction-rebellion-founder-admits-drives-diesel-car/

maximus otter
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,562
Reaction score
14,678
Points
283
How green is your cotton tote bag?

Organic cotton tote bags, used as an alternative for single-use plastic bags, need to be used 20,000 times to offset the total environmental impact of their production. The New York Times reports that this equates to daily use of the item for 54 years, meaning the bags are not as environmentally friendly as previously thought. Read more » LinkedIn News
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
47,165
Reaction score
42,868
Points
334
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
6,930
Reaction score
11,284
Points
299
Location
Hobbs End
She should walk everywhere, knit her own clothes & stop using the internet.
 

Naughty_Felid

kneesy earsy nosey
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
9,221
Reaction score
13,117
Points
299
She should walk everywhere, knit her own clothes & stop using the internet.

and live in a hole, not use electricity, or eat food she has not foraged for herself.

Next up Andrew Neal's fashion tips!
 

Naughty_Felid

kneesy earsy nosey
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
9,221
Reaction score
13,117
Points
299
In other news Whoarr! Holiday snaps of Felicity Kendall! Beefy Ian Botham made trade envoy! Interview with TV star Reg Varney!

And our letters to editor Mary Whitehouse: "Have you seen the price of corned beef?" "My plumber speaks with a funny accent should I make him a cup of tea?" "Mary, do you think Layland will ever make a better car than the Princess?"
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
9,571
Reaction score
22,219
Points
334

Diesel car suits me better than electric, says PM’s climate spokesperson


Allegra Stratton, the prime minister’s former press secretary, revealed she drove a “third-hand” diesel Volkswagen Golf.

The reason for this, Stratton explained, was that she needed to visit elderly relatives “200, 250 miles away”, and that having to stop the vehicle to charge it would slow the journey down, particularly with two young children who might otherwise remain asleep for the duration of the ride.

“I don’t fancy it just yet,” said Stratton, who lives in north London, because of the length of time it took to make trips to visit her father in south Scotland, her mother in Gloucestershire, her grandmother in north Wales, and her in-laws in the Lake District.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-than-electric-says-pms-climate-spokesperson

maximus otter
 
Top