Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

Mythopoeika

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Diesel car suits me better than electric, says PM’s climate spokesperson


Allegra Stratton, the prime minister’s former press secretary, revealed she drove a “third-hand” diesel Volkswagen Golf.

The reason for this, Stratton explained, was that she needed to visit elderly relatives “200, 250 miles away”, and that having to stop the vehicle to charge it would slow the journey down, particularly with two young children who might otherwise remain asleep for the duration of the ride.

“I don’t fancy it just yet,” said Stratton, who lives in north London, because of the length of time it took to make trips to visit her father in south Scotland, her mother in Gloucestershire, her grandmother in north Wales, and her in-laws in the Lake District.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-than-electric-says-pms-climate-spokesperson

maximus otter
Just being honest. [Shrugs]
 

MorningAngel

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Diesel car suits me better than electric, says PM’s climate spokesperson


Allegra Stratton, the prime minister’s former press secretary, revealed she drove a “third-hand” diesel Volkswagen Golf.

The reason for this, Stratton explained, was that she needed to visit elderly relatives “200, 250 miles away”, and that having to stop the vehicle to charge it would slow the journey down, particularly with two young children who might otherwise remain asleep for the duration of the ride.

“I don’t fancy it just yet,” said Stratton, who lives in north London, because of the length of time it took to make trips to visit her father in south Scotland, her mother in Gloucestershire, her grandmother in north Wales, and her in-laws in the Lake District.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...r-than-electric-says-pms-climate-spokesperson

maximus otter
Petrol would be a bit better surely and have the same advantages.

By the way I’ve seen the new E10 petrol they are introducing can rot your car if you don’t drive it often as they want us to do, which is very helpful.
 

Trevp666

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Surely it's going to be irrelevant if the sea levels rise and we all need boats instead of cars.
Or when all the OPEC countries get together and decide to stop producing petro-chemicals.
Or once the governments force everyone to buy new electric cars only resulting in demand for fossil fuels decreasing.

30 years from now the only I.C.E. cars on the roads will all be 'classic cars' and the owners will have to get their fuels from a specialist supplier.
 

Mythopoeika

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Surely it's going to be irrelevant if the sea levels rise and we all need boats instead of cars.
Or when all the OPEC countries get together and decide to stop producing petro-chemicals.
Or once the governments force everyone to buy new electric cars only resulting in demand for fossil fuels decreasing.

30 years from now the only I.C.E. cars on the roads will all be 'classic cars' and the owners will have to get their fuels from a specialist supplier.
I predict that 10 years from now, we'll still be having this debate and the world won't have come to an end.
 

Nosmo King

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Surely it's going to be irrelevant if the sea levels rise and we all need boats instead of cars.
Or when all the OPEC countries get together and decide to stop producing petro-chemicals.
Or once the governments force everyone to buy new electric cars only resulting in demand for fossil fuels decreasing.

30 years from now the only I.C.E. cars on the roads will all be 'classic cars' and the owners will have to get their fuels from a specialist supplier.
The demand for energy will increase massively if everyone converted to electric vehicles, there is nowhere near enough sustainable energy being produced to meet the need now, let alone if everyone goes electric, the environmental campaigners don't want nuclear power stations built, so all we will be left with are coal and gas fired power stations to fill the gap.
 

Trevp666

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I just think it will lead to a societal shift with an increasing gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.
We will end up with a richer group of people that can afford to own (and charge) electric cars, with everyone else either having to use public transport or live within smaller communities.
 

Mythopoeika

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I just think it will lead to a societal shift with an increasing gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.
We will end up with a richer group of people that can afford to own (and charge) electric cars, with everyone else either having to use public transport or live within smaller communities.
A bit like it was before the 1950s. Hmmm.
 

Mythopoeika

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There are bits of south Lincolnshire that only remain above water because of continuous pumping.
Indeed. I've driven past quite a few of those pumping stations, drainage ditches and sluice gates.
A big chunk of England is reclaimed land.

Where I lived in Peterborough was right on the edge of the land border with the water that used to be the inland sea. So it would have been beachfront property in an earlier time.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Indeed. I've driven past quite a few of those pumping stations, drainage ditches and sluice gates.
A big chunk of England is reclaimed land.

Where I lived in Peterborough was right on the edge of the land border with the water that used to be the inland sea. So it would have been beachfront property in an earlier time.
Yup, when the pumps eventually go down, my dad's in prime coastal territory as he lives on the first hill (loose use of the term in my husband's opinion!) facing onto the Fens.
 

Mythopoeika

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Yes, eventually the price will come down... a little bit.
Looking into the future, they are just for wealthy people (because the price won't ever fall to a lower level than ICE cars). Also, there's the huge problem of mining/refining all the exotic minerals. Then there's all the charging and power infrastructure to build.
Hydrogen is the way forward.
 

Trevp666

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Unfortunately for Hydrogen, although being clean to use as a fuel and 'power-dense', it is also notoriously difficult to store - being the smallest element on the periodic table, it will pass through anything used as a containment vessel eventually, so it has to bound to some other element for long term storage.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Yes, eventually the price will come down... a little bit.
Looking into the future, they are just for wealthy people (because the price won't ever fall to a lower level than ICE cars). Also, there's the huge problem of mining/refining all the exotic minerals. Then there's all the charging and power infrastructure to build.
Hydrogen is the way forward.

I agree with some form of cheaper batteries, whatever happens, E cars will still end up cheaper.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/352747/electric-cars-are-cheaper-own-petrol-cars
 

Floyd1

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Light bulbs really pee me off. Here in the UK they made us go over to so cold long life light bulbs which were supposed to be better for the planet. They aren't long life they don't last any longer than the old bulbs in my experience and they cost five times as much. Also the stuff in them is awful to get rid of. I can't help but think we've been Edison screwed by the bulb manufacturers. Oh yes and as light bulbs they are pants as they take ages to light up.

And don't get me started on cars that have their lights permanently on even in bright daylight. Pound shops sell garden lights that come on when it's dark. Are you seriously telling me they can't do that with thousands of pounds of car?

Sorry if any of this is spelt wrong or doesn't make sense, I had to get it off my chest before work.
Yes! Light bulbs (along with loo rolls) are the biggest flippin' con ever! Absolute rubbish. ''Lasts 15 years'' ? My a**e. I'm lucky if they last more than a year these days. They could do if they wanted them to though. Back in the 30s, the two main lightbulb manufacturers, Osram and Phillips I think it was, got together and said ''look, we know we can make bulbs last virtually for ever, but that's no good for our sales''. They even brought in fines for bulbs that lasted too long.
 

Mythopoeika

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I thought this is what you anti-e-car/scooter/bike change, anti-climate change, anti-anything change, etc, guys aspired to? :D
You're very 'misguided' in your thinking.
I'm not anti-anything in that list above. If individuals want to ride an e-car/scooter/bike, fine. Just don't force that ideology onto the rest of us.
I'm not anti-climate change. Of course it's changing - it's been changing for about 4 billion years.
 

Mythopoeika

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Unfortunately for Hydrogen, although being clean to use as a fuel and 'power-dense', it is also notoriously difficult to store - being the smallest element on the periodic table, it will pass through anything used as a containment vessel eventually, so it has to bound to some other element for long term storage.
I'd have agreed with you until recently, but I heard a while back that new methods of storage had been found. Now it's possible!

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161201163604.htm
 

Trevp666

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new methods of storage

From that article;
Using complex mathematical equations and computer simulations, Mendoza-Cortes designed porous materials of transition metals -- compounds involving cobalt, iron or nickel -- that cause hydrogen to bond with it.

Which is my point - hydrogen is almost impossible to store unless you bond it to something else, thus making the molecules larger so they don't just ooze through whatever material you are trying to store it in.
 

Naughty_Felid

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You're very 'misguided' in your thinking.
I'm not anti-anything in that list above. If individuals want to ride an e-car/scooter/bike, fine. Just don't force that ideology onto the rest of us.
I'm not anti-climate change. Of course it's changing - it's been changing for about 4 billion years.

So how are we "forcing' ideology onto you?

Yes, and mankind has had zero impact on the climate?
 

Trevp666

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I'm not really sure which thread this would be more appropriate in, but this seems like a good fit.

In the UK during August the skies were so grey, and the wind so lacking, that Wind and Solar power generation didn't add enough to the mix, and the cost of gas has increased so much, that a 'mothballed' coal-fired power station was brought into use.

UK fires up coal power plant as gas prices soar

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238
 

Mythopoeika

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I'm not really sure which thread this would be more appropriate in, but this seems like a good fit.

In the UK during August the skies were so grey, and the wind so lacking, that Wind and Solar power generation didn't add enough to the mix, and the cost of gas has increased so much, that a 'mothballed' coal-fired power station was brought into use.

UK fires up coal power plant as gas prices soar

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58469238
Yep... we can't just suddenly stop using fossil fuels.
 

Trevp666

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we can't just suddenly stop using fossil fuels.
Well actually we could just suddenly stop using fossil fuels but there would be a price to pay.
An immediate cessation of international travel for all but the most wealthy, and even then be prepared for it take much longer to get to your destination.
A return to power cuts similar to those we endured in the 1970s.
Only being able to eat the products which are produced locally, or pay a lot more for things that have to be transported from far afield.
etc etc etc.

Our whole society is now based on the use of fossil fuels, and to some extent nuclear, and/or new and emerging technologies.
Going all the way back to when humans discovered how to make fire, and that oil seeped out of the ground, and that stuff like peat was combustible, we have been (in some form) using fossil fuels for a lot longer than just the past few decades.
We use a hell of a lot more of it now of course, but then there a hell of a lot more of us to use it.
 

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I can’t see the oil industry and the entire global supply chain keeping going just to provide some petrol for some rich git’s Bentley.

Much of the cutbacks you mention would mean mass unemployment in manufacturing, hospitality, catering, agriculture etc. This in itself would probably cause poverty and ultimately civil unrest across the globe.
 

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Energy Prices in Europe Hit Records After Wind Stops Blowing


im-399209


Natural gas and electricity markets were already surging in Europe when a fresh catalyst emerged: The wind in the stormy North Sea stopped blowing.


The sudden slowdown in wind-driven electricity production off the coast of the U.K. in recent weeks whipsawed through regional energy markets. Gas and coal-fired electricity plants were called in to make up the shortfall from wind.

Natural-gas prices, already boosted by the pandemic recovery and a lack of fuel in storage caverns and tanks, hit all-time highs. Thermal coal, long shunned for its carbon emissions, has emerged from a long price slump as utilities are forced to turn on backup power sources.

The episode underscored the precarious state the region’s energy markets face heading into the long European winter. The electricity price shock was most acute in the U.K., which has leaned on wind farms...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/energy...-records-after-wind-stops-blowing-11631528258

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