Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

Tunn11

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Whoops! Mis-typed 100 for 1000!

Thanks for the link Gloucestrian, interesting. I admit I’ve just changed over as and when bulbs have blown and not always used the more expensive types, probably false economy although sometimes driven by availability.

Looking at the Philips 5.5 w = 40w 470 lumen in the drawer I notice that it has two hieroglyphics (writing is falling out of favour on a lot of things now) which seem to relate to the life of the bulb one, under a clock image says 15 years 15,000 hours: one under the energy rating colour chart states 6kWh/1000h but neither actually state this as a guarantee!

In general they do seem to last longer than the old filament bulbs and the technology seems to be getting better, I’ve no idea how their environmental impact over all differs from filament types. Is the manufacture/disposal better or worse in terms of pollutants, etc?
 

Gloucestrian

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The filament ones are pretty low impact environmentally, just glass and metal so not really too worrisome for the environment. The low value of the materials make recycling cost ineffective though they are largely recyclable. The compact fluorescent (CFL hereafter) contain mercury, necessitating their careful disposal and recycling. Personally I think CFL are awful - poor performance, bad for the environment.

The LED light bulbs are quite recyclable, they are worthwhile in recycling as they contain small amounts of rare earth minerals which are all recoverable (gold, etc). Unlike CFLs they don't contain anything worrisome, nothing toxic to the environment so if a few end up in landfill it isn't that bad for the environment but obviously it is preferable that they are recycled. Overall the LED light bulbs are effectively neutral in terms of pollutants - there's plastics in the mix but these are none that are particularly harmful if disposed of correctly (including landfill) but if recycled most of the components are recyclable and the recovered materials can go back into new light bulbs. The energy usage is much lower than both filament bulbs and CFLs and the lifespan is higher so on that side of things they are very worthwhile. Unfortunately as with any complex electronic there will be occasional bulbs that slip through QA and end up disappointing the customer, these are few and far between (or should be).

People were used to 10p light bulbs providing 90% of the performance of an 80p light bulb but you have to treat these modern light bulbs as an electronics purchase where it really is worth doing a bit of research before buying. In the same way that no manufacturer will offer a 10 year guarantee on a laptop but you'd be pretty disappointed if it didn't last 10 years, modern light bulbs are a moderately complex electronic device that under normal circumstances should exceed the design lifespan. We all hear of someone buying a laptop that is uneconomic to repair after a year but how frequently do such things occur? Not very often in my experience.

Edit: remove link to stats because it was paywalled. I'll try to restore with a non-paywall version later.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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They just don't make them like they used to though.
The drive towards consumerism meant that everything gets made with only a limited lifespan nowadays, so that the manufacturers get repeat sales. They don't want to make their goods too shoddy or people wouldn't buy them at all, so they make them just acceptably durable.
Back in the day . . . . . . . .
<wobbly lines>
...<wobbly lines>
......<wobbly lines>

"The Centennial Light is the world's longest-lasting light bulb, burning since 1901, and almost never switched off. It is at 4550 East Avenue, Livermore, California, and maintained by the Livermore-Pleasanton Fire Department."

1641911282237.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
 

Gloucestrian

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The Centennial light is very dim, Trev.

One of the things I like about the LED bulbs is that they are bucking that trend, the lifespan is much higher than the old filament bulbs. But don't let evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) get in the way of a good moan. I too channel Victor Meldrew disturbingly often. :)
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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The Centennial light is very dim, Trev.
You want the moon on a stick! lol.
Remember this was in 1901, from a design some 10+ years old. Apparently it would have been much brighter in it's original condition but the passage of time has dimmed it (like my brain).
I'm sure that it was much brighter than a candle, and safer than a gas lamp.
 

Floyd1

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They just don't make them like they used to though.
The drive towards consumerism meant that everything gets made with only a limited lifespan nowadays, so that the manufacturers get repeat sales. They don't want to make their goods too shoddy or people wouldn't buy them at all, so they make them just acceptably durable.
Back in the day . . . . . . . .
<wobbly lines>
...<wobbly lines>
......<wobbly lines>

"The Centennial Light is the world's longest-lasting light bulb, burning since 1901, and almost never switched off. It is at 4550 East Avenue, Livermore, California, and maintained by the Livermore-Pleasanton Fire Department."

View attachment 50574
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
Osram and Phillips used to make them only last so long and they were fined if they lasted longer than the agreed time. I've bought quite expensive led ones that didn't last 6 weeks, but the last lot are still going so hopefully it was just a bad batch first time. We've still got one or two filament ones knocking about.
 

MorningAngel

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Osram and Phillips used to make them only last so long and they were fined if they lasted longer than the agreed time. I've bought quite expensive led ones that didn't last 6 weeks, but the last lot are still going so hopefully it was just a bad batch first time. We've still got one or two filament ones knocking about.
I do like the modern bulbs that look like the really old ones. I’ve had one of them for a while. Let’s hope it behaves.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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Where was it that some bloke decided to get on the roof of a train in London somewhere to have a protest about something (probably climate change) during 'rush hour' and the commuters did the typically British thing - dragged him off the roof and gave him 'a good hiding'.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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I found footage.
Canning Town tube station in 2019.
2 clowns get a little bit of a roughing up.
(age restricted video so you will have to follow the link to youtube)
 

Mythopoeika

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I’m seriously concerned about how dangerous the batteries of electric cars are if they catch on fire.

There is speculation that the fire on this car carrying ship was started by a battery. Even if it wasn’t it going to take a hell of a lot of putting out.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cargo-ship-fire-electric-batteries-b2018606.html
I know someone who tests cars for a living. He has to drive them all day, all makes and types of vehicles.
I told him years ago that electric cars were going to be a hazard, and he didn't believe me. He was a bit starry-eyed about them back then.
Recently, he told me that the guys at work had shown him footage of an overnight test that went wrong. They have a blast chamber where they can run a car for safety testing. He said that one of the batteries in an electric car went up in flames and the others exploded, one by one.
So now he agrees that they are an accident waiting to happen.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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When cars are scrapped they have to go through a process to 'decontaminate' them of all their fluids and dodgy stuff including stuff like the gas from the aircon, and the water in the washer bottle, all of the hydraulic fluids, oils, coolant, etc etc etc.
They are now starting to get electric vehicles that are 'end-of-life' and the battery packs are quite an issue as they are difficult to remove and hard to keep safe and recycle.
 

ramonmercado

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Who would have thought that mops could be so deadly?

Cleanliness may be next to godliness, but a new study suggests it could have an unexpected downside:

A few minutes of mopping indoors with a fresh-scented cleaning product can generate as many airborne particles as vehicles on a busy city street. The finding suggests custodians and professional cleaners may be at risk of health effects from frequent exposure to these suspended tiny particles, known as aerosols.

“I was absolutely amazed that mopping produced potentially harmful aerosols at similar rates to those generated by traffic on a busy street,” says Nicola Carslaw of the University of York who investigates indoor air pollution but was not involved with the study. “The people who should be paying particular attention to this paper are NIOSH, the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health,” adds Glenn Morrison, an environmental scientist at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, who was also not involved. “There is a lot of particle formation during these cleaning events, even under conditions that we would consider very normal.”

The air in homes, schools, and offices can sometimes be dirtier than the air outdoors, even in cities with pollution problems...

https://www.science.org/content/article/mopping-can-create-air-pollution-rivals-city-streets
 

ramonmercado

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An interesting take on Western conservation. Scandavian teens are much more likely to get access to the MSM than Hernandez though.

‘Fresh Banana Leaves’ shows how Western conservation has harmed Indigenous people​

Environmental scientist Jessica Hernandez talks with Science News about her new book​


In Fresh Banana Leaves, Jessica Hernandez describes how Indigenous communities in Mexico care for milpas, agricultural fields in which multiple types of plants are grown together because they can support one another. In this milpa in Central America, bent corn stalks support newer crops. In the background stands nonnative banana trees.



Fresh Banana Leaves
Jessica Hernandez
North Atlantic Books, $17.95


During the civil war in El Salvador that began in the 1970s, an injured Victor Hernandez hid from falling bombs beneath the fronds of a banana tree. The child soldier, a member of the Maya Ch’orti’ group indigenous to the region, made a crutch from a branch of the tree and limped toward Guatemala, toward freedom. “I strongly believe that it was this banana tree that saved my life,” he told his daughter, Jessica Hernandez, who shares the story in Fresh Banana Leaves: Healing Indigenous Landscapes Through Indigenous Science. “It is ironic because banana trees are not native to El Salvador,” he said.

Jessica Hernandez, an environmental scientist, draws parallels between her father’s story and that of the banana tree. The banana tree’s journey from Southeast Asia via colonial European ships forced the resilient plant to adapt to its new home in the Americas. Similarly, her father adjusted to being displaced, eventually settling in the United States, often experiencing less-than-warm welcomes along the way.
Hernandez uses her father’s stories and other first-person accounts to frame a complex discussion on the interplay between colonialism, the displacement of Indigenous peoples, land degradation, and differences between how Western researchers and Indigenous people approach conservation. Western restoration can often focus on rooting out invasive species, Hernandez points out. But such a narrow focus, she contends, fails to understand that Indigenous people — the lands’ original stewards — are integral parts of imperiled landscapes.

Some researchers are now taking a community-based approach to conservation, in which Indigenous people participate in project planning instead of serving as study subjects. But this still doesn’t go far enough, Hernandez argues: In such studies, non-Indigenous people often end up speaking for Indigenous communities.

Science News spoke with Hernandez about what she sees as conservation’s failures, Indigenous displacement and the connection between the two. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

SN: How do you use the term “Indigenous”?

Hernandez:
Somebody who still has their ancestral practices, their cultural traditions, their kinships with their people, whether they’re displaced or not, and are native to that region, or to that place that they can call home.

SN: You write about how ecocolonialism — when non-Indigenous “settlers” govern Indigenous lands without consulting Indigenous people — can exacerbate climate change and result in Indigenous displacement and ecological grief. What is ecological grief?

Hernandez:
When I talk about ecological grief, I’m talking about the longing that many [displaced] Indigenous peoples have to return to their lands. Another way to look at that is the relationships that we [Indigenous people] have with nature — especially with our plants, animals and nonliving relatives. When the impacts of climate change destroy them, there’s a mourning that we all undergo as Indigenous peoples.

A lot of settlers have lost their relationships with nature. They view nature as commodities without understanding that some of these natural resources mean something else to many people, aside from economic value. ...

https://www.sciencenews.org/article...nservation-west-harm-fresh-banana-leaves-book
 

Analogue Boy

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In light of recent events, there have been calls for the UK to become self sufficient in energy supply. Nuclear would take a while to set up but there is this…

New North Sea gas field goes into production, boosting UK energy security​

A new gas field found under the North Sea off East Anglia has this week produced its ‘first gas’ – and more such developments are on the way, according to IOG, an independent offshore exploration and production company.

https://worldoil.com/news/2022/3/14...d,offshore exploration and production company
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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"...has this week produced its ‘first gas’ "

I did something similar this morning but I blame the Steak and Chips I had for dinner yesterday.
 

Tunn11

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Anyone noticed the British TV ads telling you to run your dishwasher every day to save water? It says that running the dishwasher uses less water than running a tap. Maybe and they’ve obviously not heard of putting the water in a bowl. However there is a written text which says “Excludes pre wash”.

We don’t use a dishwasher (well there’s me) so I don’t know but this all sounds a bit suspect to me as I thought the pre wash used quite a lot of water. Also what are relative problems of muck and washing up liquid versus muck and dishwasher salts/cleaners, etc. with regard to pollution once the stuff goes down the drain?

Suspicious of our water companies as they don’t do a lot to stop leaks but are always telling us to save water.

Well, to be fair, it’s not as if it falls out of the sky is it? Oh……:thought:
 

Analogue Boy

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Anyone noticed the British TV ads telling you to run your dishwasher every day to save water? It says that running the dishwasher uses less water than running a tap. Maybe and they’ve obviously not heard of putting the water in a bowl. However there is a written text which says “Excludes pre wash”.

We don’t use a dishwasher (well there’s me) so I don’t know but this all sounds a bit suspect to me as I thought the pre wash used quite a lot of water. Also what are relative problems of muck and washing up liquid versus muck and dishwasher salts/cleaners, etc. with regard to pollution once the stuff goes down the drain?

Suspicious of our water companies as they don’t do a lot to stop leaks but are always telling us to save water.

Well, to be fair, it’s not as if it falls out of the sky is it? Oh……:thought:
What about the electricity and wear and tear on machine parts?
 

Floyd1

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I never use a bowl. I wash and rinse under the tap and that also soaks the items in the sink ready to be brought up and washed. Washing in bowls is pretty disgusting when you think about it, plus you either have to rinse them anyway or end up tasting washing liquid in your tea. Failing that, do Trev's method.
 

hunck

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I never use a bowl. I wash and rinse under the tap and that also soaks the items in the sink ready to be brought up and washed. Washing in bowls is pretty disgusting when you think about it, plus you either have to rinse them anyway or end up tasting washing liquid in your tea.
I’m with you - rinse in slow hot water flow. The amount of hot water used is minimal.
 

Tunn11

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I never use a bowl. I wash and rinse under the tap and that also soaks the items in the sink ready to be brought up and washed. Washing in bowls is pretty disgusting when you think about it, plus you either have to rinse them anyway or end up tasting washing liquid in your tea. Failing that, do Trev's method.
Washing up liquid in tea, Mmmmmm! frothy.
 

Giant R

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Washing up liquid in tea, Mmmmmm! frothy.
I'm a real tea addict and quite used to like it when I had a day of small jobs to do as, invariably, I would get offered a cup of tea in each house. I never refused even if the house was a bit lacking in hygene. A friend I worked with though went to a house like that and gratefully accepted a cup of tea. When he was taking the last couple of gulps he felt something in his mouth which turned out to be a scrap of meat:omg: He concluded that the customer must have swilled the cup around in the dirty washing up bowl and the meat got caught in the bottom of the cup...
 

Floyd1

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I'm a real tea addict and quite used to like it when I had a day of small jobs to do as, invariably, I would get offered a cup of tea in each house. I never refused even if the house was a bit lacking in hygene. A friend I worked with though went to a house like that and gratefully accepted a cup of tea. When he was taking the last couple of gulps he felt something in his mouth which turned out to be a scrap of meat:omg: He concluded that the customer must have swilled the cup around in the dirty washing up bowl and the meat got caught in the bottom of the cup...
I just threw-up a bit.
 
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