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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

RaM said:
You would think tide power makes more sense,
heights and times are well understood.
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You would think that not scrapping what works, made more sense.

Pointlessly leaping off a cliff, in the hope that someone will develop working wings before you hit the bottom, is not a survival strategy.

maximus otter
 
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I was thinking more instead of sun and wind, they seem hell bent
on getting rid of what works.
 
Mythopoeika said:
High upfront cost and a LOT of maintenance.
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Tidal lagoon need to be carefully planned to avoid large semi-static areas of water - for example, when there isn't enough time to drain them before the tide comes back in. The costs of building a double lagoon system to avoid this kind of thing are high...as one example.

That said there is no free lunch for any power generation.

It's worth reading these though:

https://tethys.pnnl.gov/project-sites/la-rance-tidal-barrage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station

It does suggest that the 'new' ecosystem stabilises after a period. Interesting that the power factor (the ratio of the 'nameplate' generating capacity to the actual generated power) is some 23-24%, not far off wind's 30%, but both some way behind typical nuclear at 70% or more.

(PV is more like 3%)
 
Omg this is scary.

A2A04D8A-24EE-4510-85A4-02F0F06B81A2.jpeg
 
May have a long time to wait though, we were told about 35 years ago our house would be under water in 30 years not seen any difference upto yet.
 

What makes up the price of a litre of petrol?​

https://moneyweek.com/economy/uk-economy/budget/604621/what-makes-up-the-price-of-a-litre-of-petrol

Fuel duty​

Fuel duty, which is now set at 52.95p a litre, represents roughly 29% of a litre of petrol.

• Wholesale costs​

The cost of wholesale petrol to the supplier is the second biggest component – accounting for roughly 45% – and is based on the price of raw materials including crude oil and refining costs. Petrol prices move in line with oil prices which can be very volatile.

• VAT​

VAT represents about 20% of the price of a litre of petrol. As the price of fuel goes up, the amount of VAT you pay goes up, too.

While reports suggested Sunak was considering a cut to VAT, he left it unchanged.

• Retailer Profit​

The amount retailers receive from the sale of every litre is rather low, at around 2%, says the RAC.

• Delivery and distribution​

The cost of distributing and transporting the fuel is done by the wholesaler and represents 2% of the total cost.

• Biofuel content​

The RAC also mentions E10 fuels- which is a biofuel made up of 90% regular unleaded and 10% ethanol. The RAC says this makes up for 7% of the cost of one litre of petrol.
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Summary: retailer takes aobut 2%
Wholesale cost: 45%

Over 50% is taxes duties and levies.
 
I recon tax on a tax as in vat on fuel tax should be outlawed.
 

Germany to fire up coal stations as Russia squeezes gas supply​


Germany must reduce natural gas consumption and increase the burning of coal in order to help fill gas storage facilities for next winter, German Economy Minister Robert Habeck announced Sunday as the country moves away from reduced Russian gas supplies.

"The situation is serious," Habeck said in a statement. "We are therefore continuing to strengthen precautions and taking additional measures to reduce gas consumption. This means that gas consumption must fall further, but more gas must be put into the storage facilities, otherwise things will really get tight in winter."

Germany is heavily reliant on Moscow's gas to power its homes and heavy industry, but has managed to whittle Moscow's share of its imports down to 35% from 55% before the start of the war in Ukraine.

Despite Germany's plans to exit coal-fueled energy production, Habeck, who is a Green Party politician in the center-left ruling coalition, announced a return to "coal-fired power plants for a transitional period" in order to reduce gas consumption for electricity production.

"We are setting up a gas substitute reserve on call. "That's bitter, but it's almost necessary in this situation to reduce gas consumption," Habeck said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/19/energy/germany-russia-gas-supplies-winter-intl/index.html

Export your pollution to a foreign quasi-dictatorship in order to burnish your "green" credentials, then hurriedly revert to what actually works when the obvious happens and you need to keep your country running reliably...

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:

Germany to fire up coal stations as Russia squeezes gas supply​


Germany must reduce natural gas consumption and increase the burning of coal in order to help fill gas storage facilities for next winter, German Economy Minister Robert Habeck announced Sunday as the country moves away from reduced Russian gas supplies.

"The situation is serious," Habeck said in a statement. "We are therefore continuing to strengthen precautions and taking additional measures to reduce gas consumption. This means that gas consumption must fall further, but more gas must be put into the storage facilities, otherwise things will really get tight in winter."

Germany is heavily reliant on Moscow's gas to power its homes and heavy industry, but has managed to whittle Moscow's share of its imports down to 35% from 55% before the start of the war in Ukraine.

Despite Germany's plans to exit coal-fueled energy production, Habeck, who is a Green Party politician in the center-left ruling coalition, announced a return to "coal-fired power plants for a transitional period" in order to reduce gas consumption for electricity production.

"We are setting up a gas substitute reserve on call. "That's bitter, but it's almost necessary in this situation to reduce gas consumption," Habeck said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/19/energy/germany-russia-gas-supplies-winter-intl/index.html

Export your pollution to a foreign quasi-dictatorship in order to burnish your "green" credentials, then hurriedly revert to what actually works when the obvious happens and you need to keep your country running reliably...

maximus otter
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I really can't see how gas and definitely oil will ever be replaced. Take a look around your house. No oil? you would have nothing as everything is either made from oil or uses oil to make it. You would have no plastic for a start (which sounds a good thing until you realise how much plastic you do need).
 
Floyd1 said:
I really can't see how gas and definitely oil will ever be replaced. Take a look around your house. No oil? you would have nothing as everything is either made from oil or uses oil to make it. You would have no plastic for a start (which sounds a good thing until you realise how much plastic you do need).
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There are some plastics that aren't made from oil (e.g. PLA), but their usefulness is somewhat limited.
It's not just plastics that we'd have a problem with if there was no oil. Fertiliser, animal feed, oil for lubrication purposes, bitumen/tar...
 
maximus otter said:

Germany to fire up coal stations as Russia squeezes gas supply​


Germany must reduce natural gas consumption and increase the burning of coal in order to help fill gas storage facilities for next winter, German Economy Minister Robert Habeck announced Sunday as the country moves away from reduced Russian gas supplies.

"The situation is serious," Habeck said in a statement. "We are therefore continuing to strengthen precautions and taking additional measures to reduce gas consumption. This means that gas consumption must fall further, but more gas must be put into the storage facilities, otherwise things will really get tight in winter."

Germany is heavily reliant on Moscow's gas to power its homes and heavy industry, but has managed to whittle Moscow's share of its imports down to 35% from 55% before the start of the war in Ukraine.

Despite Germany's plans to exit coal-fueled energy production, Habeck, who is a Green Party politician in the center-left ruling coalition, announced a return to "coal-fired power plants for a transitional period" in order to reduce gas consumption for electricity production.

"We are setting up a gas substitute reserve on call. "That's bitter, but it's almost necessary in this situation to reduce gas consumption," Habeck said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/19/energy/germany-russia-gas-supplies-winter-intl/index.html

Export your pollution to a foreign quasi-dictatorship in order to burnish your "green" credentials, then hurriedly revert to what actually works when the obvious happens and you need to keep your country running reliably...

maximus otter
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Germany had nuclear power stations, but foolishly closed them down after the Fukushima disaster.
 
Oil was first drilled out of the ground deliberately in 1859.
Before that it was limited to whatever was found naturally seeping from the earth or stumbled upon by accident whilst looking for something else (eg coal mining).
Beyond the need for coal as a fossil fuel for fires, smelting etc there wasn't much call for refined oil products, except for things like lubricants, lamp oils, large boilers etc.
Only when the Internal Combustion Engine came onto the scene did things really get going.
So we've only taken a little over a hundred and fifty years from poking holes in the ground to blocking them up.
 
Trevp666 said:
Oil was first drilled out of the ground deliberately in 1859.
Before that it was limited to whatever was found naturally seeping from the earth or stumbled upon by accident whilst looking for something else (eg coal mining).
Beyond the need for coal as a fossil fuel for fires, smelting etc there wasn't much call for refined oil products, except for things like lubricants, lamp oils, large boilers etc.
Only when the Internal Combustion Engine came onto the scene did things really get going.
So we've only taken a little over a hundred and fifty years from poking holes in the ground to blocking them up.
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There's still a bitumen deposit here in the UK, which was mined for bitumen that could be used for caulking ships.
I've been near it - went by in a narrowboat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_Tunnel
It's not oil as such, but it could be refined down to oil.
 
Trevp666 said:
Oil was first drilled out of the ground deliberately in 1859.
Before that it was limited to whatever was found naturally seeping from the earth or stumbled upon by accident whilst looking for something else (eg coal mining).
Beyond the need for coal as a fossil fuel for fires, smelting etc there wasn't much call for refined oil products, except for things like lubricants, lamp oils, large boilers etc.
Only when the Internal Combustion Engine came onto the scene did things really get going.
So we've only taken a little over a hundred and fifty years from poking holes in the ground to blocking them up.
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Well if we still want roads, we're going to have to keep using asphalt (which is a solid form of petroleum).
 
Bitumen is just the binder in asphalt. Other products are likely available.
That we can use oil for plastics and other things, is just extra reason to not be burning it up.
 
Just to clear up the nomenclature for 'Bitumen', there are two types but they are essentially the same thing.
See this from Britannica.

bitumen; dense, highly viscous, petroleum-based hydrocarbon that is found in deposits such as oil sands and pitch lakes (natural bitumen) or is obtained as a residue of the distillation of crude oil (refined bitumen). In some areas, particularly in the United States, bitumen is often called asphalt, though that name is almost universally used for the road-paving material made from a mixture of gravel, sand, and other fillers in a bituminous binder. Bitumen is also frequently called tar or pitch—though, properly speaking, tar is a by-product of the carbonization of coal and pitch is actually obtained from the distillation of coal tar.

https://www.britannica.com/science/bitumen
 
Trevp666 said:
Glastonbury Festival 2022: '£80' fee to use electric charging points at Worthy Farm.

"(...) the diesel generator which powers the electric charging points..."

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/glastonbury-festival-2022-80-fee-7255089
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From that very article:

As for the rumoured £80/hour charging cost, Bristol Live was informed that this was enforced earlier this week, but after receiving feedback from punters, Glastonbury organisers slashed the cost down to £50 for the whole weekend. The original price was apparently put in place as a ‘deterrent’.
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According to an AA worker, the diesel generator which powers the electric charging points is present on the farm all year round, and is switched on as and when it is required. This system is thought to be better for the environment than installing a Tesla Supercharger, for instance.
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So it was for electric car charging as a deterrent against people rocking up in their electric cars without taking the trouble to charge beforehand. That sort of charging would clearly need a power source. How else would you expect it to be done in a remote location without some sort of generator?

Most of the electricity for the multiple stages comes from generators as well.

You can read about their actual energy policy here.
 
Well let's be totally transparent here. The best way of ensuring that the Glastonbury Festival does not impact the environment in any way whatsoever, with no 1600+ tonnes of rubbish to remove, several thousand discarded tents and sleeping bags to deal with, all the 'waste products' that spill off into the surrounding land, and to be completely 'carbon neutral' etc etc, would be to have no Glastonbury Festival at all.
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