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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

ramonmercado

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A interesting letter to the editor in the Weekly Worker issue 1418 - 10 November 2022.

Paul Demarty - apart from repeatedly telling us how young the Just Stop Oil protestors were, as if these were toddlers let loose in the kitchen - actually avoids the elephant in the vacuous room of their logic (‘Art attack’, October 20).

Let me begin by saying that supporting the ‘right to protest’ doesn’t mean I have to follow the instructions, impositions or imperatives of the person protesting. I support ‘the right’ of religious freedom, but that doesn’t mean I have to pray to whatever magic pixie someone believes in, or respect a view they have that I hold to be nonsense.

I for many decades now have been a vegan - I do not believe in the exploitation or death of animals, which means I do not exploit or cause the death of animals. I was unable to have the Covid vaccine for that reason and, despite now being in a vulnerable capacity, I risked my old life for the sake of that principle. That doesn’t mean I prevent non-vegans from eating at their choice of café or meal from the menu. I didn’t stop drinking milk because some fool had glued themselves to the milkman’s float and I couldn’t get any. I decided that the ethics and principles of veganism were right, so I chose to stop using dairy products.

Now let’s look at the behaviour of the Just Stop Oil protestors. Do they in fact not use oil? Do they refuse to use any product made using oil? No, in fact they use oil every single day of their lives and make no effort whatsoever not to. Their plastic bibs, banners, trainers, mobile phones, electronic devices, and the cars and public transport they use are all made or run using oil. The renewables they advocate all operate using oil (and incidentally coal) to make the steel. Many of them drive to the protest, park their own cars then blockade everyone else’s. This is an odd ‘principle’, is it not? It would be like me not actually becoming a vegan, tucking into a full meaty and eggy English breakfast before sticking myself to McDonald’s entrance to stop everyone else eating animals.

Whether I respect a protest, and feel myself obliged to sit there and follow someone else’s agenda for the day rather than my own, will frankly be determined by how logical and productive the protest is. Just Stop Oil is neither. It’s classic ‘Do as I say and not as I do’.

David Douglass
South Shields
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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Meh....'Just Stop Oil'....it's just another bandwagon for 'that sort' to jump on. Years past it was CND, or Greenpeace, and in years to come it'll be some other similar cause but with a different name 'Earth Savers' or something,... whatever.
These people are more often than not what I call 'serial protesters' and just go from one protest to another, changing the banner they hold, because they have nothing better to do. It's always the same couple of dozen people that get into the news reports, you recognise most of them from previous reports, and that's what they thrive on, it's their version of 'celebrity'.
In the box marked 'profession' they write 'Environmental Activist' and that's what they do, while taking whatever money they can get from either benefits, mummy and daddy, or some 'philanthropic donator', and hypocritically doing the exact opposite of whatever they campaign against, using severe mental gymnastics to justify their actions.
At least they are out in the open where we can see them though.
 

kesavaross

Abominable Snowman
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Messages
659
Location
Brighton, UK
A interesting letter to the editor in the Weekly Worker issue 1418 - 10 November 2022.

Paul Demarty - apart from repeatedly telling us how young the Just Stop Oil protestors were, as if these were toddlers let loose in the kitchen - actually avoids the elephant in the vacuous room of their logic (‘Art attack’, October 20).

Let me begin by saying that supporting the ‘right to protest’ doesn’t mean I have to follow the instructions, impositions or imperatives of the person protesting. I support ‘the right’ of religious freedom, but that doesn’t mean I have to pray to whatever magic pixie someone believes in, or respect a view they have that I hold to be nonsense.

I for many decades now have been a vegan - I do not believe in the exploitation or death of animals, which means I do not exploit or cause the death of animals. I was unable to have the Covid vaccine for that reason and, despite now being in a vulnerable capacity, I risked my old life for the sake of that principle. That doesn’t mean I prevent non-vegans from eating at their choice of café or meal from the menu. I didn’t stop drinking milk because some fool had glued themselves to the milkman’s float and I couldn’t get any. I decided that the ethics and principles of veganism were right, so I chose to stop using dairy products.

Now let’s look at the behaviour of the Just Stop Oil protestors. Do they in fact not use oil? Do they refuse to use any product made using oil? No, in fact they use oil every single day of their lives and make no effort whatsoever not to. Their plastic bibs, banners, trainers, mobile phones, electronic devices, and the cars and public transport they use are all made or run using oil. The renewables they advocate all operate using oil (and incidentally coal) to make the steel. Many of them drive to the protest, park their own cars then blockade everyone else’s. This is an odd ‘principle’, is it not? It would be like me not actually becoming a vegan, tucking into a full meaty and eggy English breakfast before sticking myself to McDonald’s entrance to stop everyone else eating animals.

Whether I respect a protest, and feel myself obliged to sit there and follow someone else’s agenda for the day rather than my own, will frankly be determined by how logical and productive the protest is. Just Stop Oil is neither. It’s classic ‘Do as I say and not as I do’.

David Douglass
South Shields
Quote from the home page of the Just Stop Oil website:

That the UK government makes a statement that it will immediately halt all future licensing and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.

https://juststopoil.org

The gentleman who sent in the above letter didn't do his homework.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
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I'd like to see these protesters doing a protest in the middle of winter after having divested themselves of mobile phones and clothing of artificial (i.e. oil-based) origin. No hot food or drinks, or superglue either. Let's see how hardy they are. :twisted:
 

ramonmercado

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Quote from the home page of the Just Stop Oil website:

That the UK government makes a statement that it will immediately halt all future licensing and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.

https://juststopoil.org

The gentleman who sent in the above letter didn't do his homework.

But the reality is that in practice Stop Oil ignore such high minded ideals. Everything David Douglass wrote is true.
 

Kondoru

Antediluvian
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Messages
9,658
You cant live without oil.

These folk are simple to the point of being completely stupid.

Id trust a toddlers word more on environmental responsibility, they at least vale being warm in winter.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
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"The TaxPayers’ Alliance has uncovered yet more wasteful spending from local councils. According to their investigation, across the country local authorities splashed a grand total of £2,689,959 on luxury limos and top-end cars between 2019 and 2022 – primarily to ferry their mayors to ribbon-cutting ceremonies and photoshoots. It’s worth remembering some of these are the same councils that have declared a climate emergency, and insist they’re strapped for cash…

The TPA also point out that, despite many councils declaring a climate emergency, only a third of the 162 councils with cars were using green vehicles. Staffordshire council declared a climate emergency in July 2019 and then spent £39,315 on a Jaguar XJ. As always, nice work if you can get it."

https://order-order.com/2022/11/29/...ns-on-limos-and-luxury-cars-for-local-mayors/

maximus otter
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
My local council recently contracted a new company to do all of it's housing maintenance. They heralded this by announcing the delivery of 62 new electric vans for their fleet of vehicles (replacing their existing fleet).
I asked (via their facebook post) how this was in any way economically sound, or 'greener', than keeping the already, mostly very new, fleet of existing vans on the road until they came up for replacement at the normal end of their usefulness?
Of course, no reply was forthcoming.
 

Cochise

Priest of the cult of the Dog with the Broken Paw
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Messages
8,011
I'd rather cyclists have too many lights and hi-vis than none.
It tends to make them safe.
As long as they don't dazzle other road users. There is, as with pretty much everything, a sweet spot. I admit I don't drive much at night these days because of many excessively bright lights on all classes of road vehicles.

The other extreme is those who walk to (or worse back from) the local pubs along A roads with no pavement (sidewalk) dressed in dark clothes.
 

kesavaross

Abominable Snowman
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As a commuter cyclist in these dark nights, I will unashamedly admit to looking like Blackpool on wheels because, you know, I'd rather not be dead.
I'm all for cyclists having good lights front and rear but not ones so dazzling that when driving along country roads I have to stop because I can see anything else.
 

hunck

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"The TaxPayers’ Alliance has uncovered yet more wasteful spending from local councils. According to their investigation, across the country local authorities splashed a grand total of £2,689,959 on luxury limos and top-end cars between 2019 and 2022 – primarily to ferry their mayors to ribbon-cutting ceremonies and photoshoots. It’s worth remembering some of these are the same councils that have declared a climate emergency, and insist they’re strapped for cash…

The TPA also point out that, despite many councils declaring a climate emergency, only a third of the 162 councils with cars were using green vehicles. Staffordshire council declared a climate emergency in July 2019 and then spent £39,315 on a Jaguar XJ. As always, nice work if you can get it."

https://order-order.com/2022/11/29/...ns-on-limos-and-luxury-cars-for-local-mayors/

maximus otter
He’s ignoring me so won’t see this. He doesn’t like to hear contrary opinions.

Order-order is a right-wing political blog.

The Taxpayers Alliance is a right-wing lobbying organisation operating out of the same address in Tufton St where numerous others similarly aligned are based.

Look ‘em up to get an idea where they’re coming from. They both have agendas. Funding for the TPA is obscure to say the least.

If we’re talking about wasting money, just think about the billions, not millions, spunked on PPE contracts approved on the ‘Red Route’ scheme with no competition, many of which provided equipment which turned out to be faulty/out of date/useless & now written off. Baroness Mone & family anyone?

We’re apparently still spending £770,000 every day in storage fees for some of these [according to the daily mail & others]. Other sources put the figure at £500,000 daily. That’s £3.5 million every week or £182 million a year. That’s some quality wasting for you, in an entirely different league.

Do we hear anything on this from him? No.
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
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This thread needs to remain more narrowly focused on 'environmental hypocrisy' as outlined at the start of the thread.

'Groups I don't like being non-green' is not it.

This is a thread in CONSPIRACY.

It is also not a thread to debate the politics/tactics of environmental protestors.

That is here:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/eco-green-climate-zealots-their-protests.70015/

1) No more Guido Fawkes stories.
2) No more whatabouttery.
3) Do not make points against other members; argue against their claims.

Thread is on close watch.
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
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As long as they don't dazzle other road users. There is, as with pretty much everything, a sweet spot. I admit I don't drive much at night these days because of many excessively bright lights on all classes of road vehicles.

The other extreme is those who walk to (or worse back from) the local pubs along A roads with no pavement (sidewalk) dressed in dark clothes.
Even with pavements. I saw some white trainers waiting to cross the road last night. Thank goodness something was visible.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
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I expect that the BTR 100% reflective cycling clothing is made from some massively eco-unfriendly materials and process, but I'd probably rather be wearing that than be squished. For under £40 it's likely to be one of your best investments if you plan on not being run over in the dark.
 

Kondoru

Antediluvian
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I too would like to say that seeing cyclists is a good idea.

Having seen so many who are NOT visible.

(Talked to my dodgy green friend yesterday; she told me that ALL of our electricity needs can be met by renewables...I kid you not.

Yes, maybe a hundred years ago?)
 

Mythopoeika

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(Talked to my dodgy green friend yesterday; she told me that ALL of our electricity needs can be met by renewables...I kid you not.

Yes, maybe a hundred years ago?)
ALL? No need for heavy industry, then.
 

hunck

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This thread needs to remain more narrowly focused on 'environmental hypocrisy' as outlined at the start of the thread.

'Groups I don't like being non-green' is not it.

This is a thread in CONSPIRACY.

It is also not a thread to debate the politics/tactics of environmental protestors.

That is here:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/eco-green-climate-zealots-their-protests.70015/

1) No more Guido Fawkes stories.
2) No more whatabouttery.
3) Do not make points against other members; argue against their claims.

Thread is on close watch.
Apologies for my post - I knew it was crossing a line & I don’t normally make these sorts but it had to be said as a public service. No more Guido Fawkes will be a blessing - mission accomplished.

Bowing out.
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
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Messages
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"As a result of the ongoing energy crisis throughout Europe, Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of electric cars for non-essential purposes.

Owners of Teslas, Volts, and other electric cars in Switzerland may soon find themselves taking the bus, with the country reportedly considering a partial ban on using EVs as part of a host of measures aimed at saving electricity."

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...ns-on-electric-car-use-amid-energy-shortages/

*straight face, straight face, straight face...*

maximus otter
 

ramonmercado

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"As a result of the ongoing energy crisis throughout Europe, Switzerland is considering a ban on the use of electric cars for non-essential purposes.

Owners of Teslas, Volts, and other electric cars in Switzerland may soon find themselves taking the bus, with the country reportedly considering a partial ban on using EVs as part of a host of measures aimed at saving electricity."

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/20...ns-on-electric-car-use-amid-energy-shortages/

*straight face, straight face, straight face...*

maximus otter

Anyone who has a problem with ssharing/citing Breitbart as a source could always use the Daily Mail instead:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-BAN-electric-cars-roads-power-shortages.html
 

kesavaross

Abominable Snowman
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Switzerland has actually come up with a brilliant idea that satisfies the eco zealots and the problem of power shortage. There's nothing more environmentally friendly than producing less electricity and not driving the electric car.

It'll also mean less car accidents and the electric car will last much longer before the batteries need replacing.

Brilliance. Just sheer brilliance.
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
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Messages
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Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Switzerland has actually come up with a brilliant idea that satisfies the eco zealots and the problem of power shortage. There's nothing more environmentally friendly than producing less electricity and not driving the electric car.

It'll also mean less car accidents and the electric car will last much longer before the batteries need replacing.

Brilliance. Just sheer brilliance.
Also, the car will look good in the driveway. It won't need cleaning as much.
 
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