• Please be advised there is a potential issue with DD collections, which may result in an excessive amount being taken. Please read the stickied thread in Fortean Times Magazine > General Discussion, Subs etc

Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
8,133
Location
Hobbs End

Relying on wind power means Britons must get used to cutting energy use, says National Grid


Households will be paid to cut their electricity use at certain times more often in future as Britain relies on wind power as part of the push to net zero, National Grid has signalled.

Craig Dyke, head of national control at the electricity system operator, said it “strongly believes” in consumers becoming more flexible about when they use electricity as the energy system is overhauled.

It comes as households are paid to reduce electricity usage between 5pm and 6pm tonight as National Grid deploys its new scheme to help avert blackouts for the first time outside of testing.

Asked if similar schemes could become a “feature of British life” and be used regularly, Mr Dyke told the BBC.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...grid-wind-power-cut-electricity-use-discount/

maximus otter
Yes but the UK isn’t relying on wind power. At present it seems to be around mid 20s %.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,917
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Oh, the UK is relying on wind and solar.
When the wind blows.
And when the sun shines.
Which is why we're in such dire straits when we get a cold, still, cloudy day in late January.
Current demand on the National Grid is 40.3gw and we are managing to almost cover that with our own generation capabilities (38.0gw) and the percentage of our own generation coming from wind today is 14.4% (5.8gw). Solar is only giving us 1% (0.42gw).
https://grid.iamkate.com/
 

Stormkhan

Disturbingly familiar
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
5,158
I honestly don't think it's a one size fits all solution.
What about wave power? Isn't there a way of fitting wave generators between the off-shore windfarms?

I just think that if we are willing to look to cheap alternatives, we should look at distributing the demand over several different methods.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,917
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Dont they have backup generators for shortfalls?
Yes they do. Which is why the energy companies have been told to 'warm up' 3 previously moth-balled UK coal fired generators today.

That really is part of the problem with wind and solar generation - it cannot replace traditional methods as it isn't always windy and sunny, so we need a 100% duplication of all of both sorts of generation. Wind and solar can only ever contribute to the mix, until a fully capable method of storing excess power is developed. Currently our UK 'storage' capacity sits at around 2% of our supply mix.
In other words, if we had no wind or solar, and traditional methods of generating power failed, we would have enough electric to power, say, 'Luton' for a few hours at best.
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,917
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
What about wave power?
That has been looked into at various times but (perhaps unsurprisingly) waves have too much power and test rigs get destroyed.
'Wave power', per se, is different to 'tidal power' which relies on the predictable up and down of the tides daily to fill and empty 'tidal barrages', but they are large and suffer from a large amount of 'NIMBYism' and eco-opposition.
 

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
8,133
Location
Hobbs End
Oh, the UK is relying on wind and solar.
When the wind blows.
And when the sun shines.
Which is why we're in such dire straits when we get a cold, still, cloudy day in late January.
Current demand on the National Grid is 40.3gw and we are managing to almost cover that with our own generation capabilities (38.0gw) and the percentage of our own generation coming from wind today is 14.4% (5.8gw). Solar is only giving us 1% (0.42gw).
https://grid.iamkate.com/
No it isn’t. Unless you think oil/gas/nuclear/coal use is going to stop any time soon.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681

Relying on wind power means Britons must get used to cutting energy use, says National Grid


Households will be paid to cut their electricity use at certain times more often in future as Britain relies on wind power as part of the push to net zero, National Grid has signalled.

Craig Dyke, head of national control at the electricity system operator, said it “strongly believes” in consumers becoming more flexible about when they use electricity as the energy system is overhauled.

It comes as households are paid to reduce electricity usage between 5pm and 6pm tonight as National Grid deploys its new scheme to help avert blackouts for the first time outside of testing.

Asked if similar schemes could become a “feature of British life” and be used regularly, Mr Dyke told the BBC “It’s something we strongly believe in.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...grid-wind-power-cut-electricity-use-discount/

maximus otter
But like everything in life, doesn't this just effect the less well off members of society? People who can afford it will simply continue to heat their houses longer than others do, (or can afford to).

It's akin to being charged more in supermarkets for buying smaller amounts; ie a four pack of beers compared to a full case. Walk to the shops (thereby 'saving the planet') and get your four beers for a higher price than the guy who goes in his car and buys the exact same product, but more of them.
Ie being 'penalised' in some way- less heat in your home/having to pay more for your groceries etc.
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
2,240
But like everything in life, doesn't this just effect the less well off members of society? People who can afford it will simply continue to heat their houses longer than others do, (or can afford to).

It's akin to being charged more in supermarkets for buying smaller amounts; ie a four pack of beers compared to a full case. Walk to the shops (thereby 'saving the planet') and get your four beers for a higher price than the guy who goes in his car and buys the exact same product, but more of them.
Ie being 'penalised' in some way- less heat in your home/having to pay more for your groceries etc.
Pre-pay meters already charger more which is totally unfair.
 

RaM

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
3,010
Location
NW UK
It's rationing by price, if we are struggling now how are we going to go on
once gas boilers are banned heat pumps rely on electricity as well as all the
cars changing over, not looking good for those on low income.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
Pre-pay meters already charger more which is totally unfair.
There you go.

It's all very well coming up with 'brilliant ideas' to save the world, but it's always the same people who suffer for it.

''Alcohol is bad'' so prices go up, tobacco is bad.... Does that affect Mr Singen-Smythe in any way when he's down at the gentlemen's club smoking the best cigars and drinking his seventh finest malt while trying it on with the 'young filly' waitress? No.
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
It's rationing by price, if we are struggling now how are we going to go on
once gas boilers are banned heat pumps rely on electricity as well as all the
cars changing over, not looking good for those on low income.
Also, people will have to spend thousands on installation;

'Although installing a heat pump is expensive, the device is likely to pay for itself within its lifetime'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64261457
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,917
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
I read that BBC article on the heat pumps too.
What a bunch of.......
Er....I mean....what lovely people, so positive about the new technology.

Tomorrow I'm going to go out and re-invent the wheel. It'll be less useful and more expensive than current wheels, but I'm going to create a charitable foundation and lobby group to push for existing wheels to be outlawed within 10 years, thus forcing people to replace them with the new type of wheel, even though it's shit.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
55,134
Location
Eblana
I read that BBC article on the heat pumps too.
What a bunch of.......
Er....I mean....what lovely people, so positive about the new technology.

Tomorrow I'm going to go out and re-invent the wheel. It'll be less useful and more expensive than current wheels, but I'm going to create a charitable foundation and lobby group to push for existing wheels to be outlawed within 10 years, thus forcing people to replace them with the new type of wheel, even though it's shit.

Will the heat pumps be affected now that the earth's core has stopped spinning?
 

Trevp666

It was like that when I got here.........honest!!!
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
9,917
Location
Welwyn Garden City (but oddly, not an actual city)
Will the heat pumps be affected now that the earth's core has stopped spinning?
Oh absolutely - because the earths core has stopped spinning it means that the heat is not being dissipated correctly, so all those with 'heat pumps' will get massively overheated, and possibly melt.
It's a disaster waiting to happen I tell ya.
 

Tunn11

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
1,213
Location
Under the highest tree top in Kent
I suggest that if everyone has an electromagnet fitted to their cars which only works when driving West to East (or the other way about I'm not sure which way the core is meant to rotate) it will help the core to start rotating the correct way again.

The magnets should only cost £9 -£10,000 to fit and cars without them should pay double tax.

It sounds expensive but it is saving the planet.
 

MorningAngel

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
2,240
Kitkat have made themselves less environmentally friendly. Foil and paper to plastic you can’t even put in your recycling at home.
 

Attachments

  • 5194489D-ECD3-4E2F-9951-8D80FF400173.jpeg
    5194489D-ECD3-4E2F-9951-8D80FF400173.jpeg
    945.8 KB · Views: 3

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
8,133
Location
Hobbs End
Yes indeed - that's what I was saying in a roundabout way. See my next post at #1087.
So we’re agreed that the UK is not relying on wind power. Wind provides part of our electricity generation, not most. If it results in less use of fossil fuels I can’t see anything in that to complain about.

We won’t be getting rid of the present power generating stations any time soon.

Re coal, I heard the other day that the steel plant in Wales, I think it was Port Talbot, which burns coal as it achieves higher temperatures, produces 2% of the UKs total CO2 emissions on its own.
 

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
8,133
Location
Hobbs End
At the same time, KitKat will introduce wrappers made with 80% recycled plastic*. These wrappers can be recycled at more than 5,000 supermarkets across the UK - and placed in household recycling in the Republic of Ireland. 
A lot of the ‘soft plastic’ bags & packaging are like that - you’re supposed to take them to a supermarket to recycle. I always stick mine in the recycling bin but wonder what happens to it. Does it get sorted somewhere or do they just pick out the more easily recyclable items such as milk cartons etc then the rest goes to a dump?
 

Floyd1

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4,681
I read that BBC article on the heat pumps too.
What a bunch of.......
Er....I mean....what lovely people, so positive about the new technology.

Tomorrow I'm going to go out and re-invent the wheel. It'll be less useful and more expensive than current wheels, but I'm going to create a charitable foundation and lobby group to push for existing wheels to be outlawed within 10 years, thus forcing people to replace them with the new type of wheel, even though it's shit.
That's the spirit.

 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
11,534

Revealed: how US transition to electric cars threatens environmental havoc


"The US’s transition to electric vehicles could require three times as much lithium as is currently produced for the entire global market, causing needless water shortages, Indigenous land grabs, and ecosystem destruction inside and outside its borders, new research finds.

It warns that unless the US’s dependence on cars in towns and cities falls drastically, the transition to lithium battery-powered electric vehicles by 2050 will deepen global environmental and social inequalities linked to mining – and may even jeopardize the 1.5C global heating target.

But ambitious policies investing in mass transit, walkable towns and cities..."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-vehicles-lithium-consequences-research

My emphasis highlights what I see as the main thrust here...

maximus otter
 
Top