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Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

"can be recycled at more than 5,000 supermarkets across the UK"
What that means is that people in the UK will just bung them in the 'general waste' bin at home, along with most everything else, except for the bottles, plastics and cans that go in the clattering 'recycling' bin.

hunck said:
Does it get sorted somewhere
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Only partly. Most UK waste sorting facilities will use magnets to draw out the ferrous content, and systems to wash out the biodegradable matter (foodstuffs), and some have more advanced systems that can remove thin plastics and paper with an air-blow system, but mostly it just gets piled up and driven over with big tractors with spiked wheels to compact it.

(a typical UK landfill site, followed by a disappointing map of current UK landfill sites)

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hunck said:
So we’re agreed that the UK is not relying on wind power. Wind provides part of our electricity generation, not most. If it results in less use of fossil fuels I can’t see anything in that to complain about.

We won’t be getting rid of the present power generating stations any time soon.

Re coal, I heard the other day that the steel plant in Wales, I think it was Port Talbot, which burns coal as it achieves higher temperatures, produces 2% of the UKs total CO2 emissions on its own.
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Yes correct - we are not relying on wind power.
It's a handy addition and, as you say, nothing to complain about per se, but it will never provide the levels of extra generation that it's hoped it will. Indeed certainly not in any way that will allow us to remove other forms of generation.

And the steel plant - IMO it is better that we produce the steel here with the higher levels of environmental protection that we enforce here, than have it produced in some other country hundreds of miles away with lesser standards and then shipped here. The steel will still be needed either way.
 
RE: kitkat wrappers.
It's not done for recycling purposes. As hunck says, it's costs; you have the cost of one-stage wrapping with a single piece of plastic balanced against the two-stage wrapping with foil then paper.
 
Trevp666 said:
"can be recycled at more than 5,000 supermarkets across the UK"
What that means is that people in the UK will just bung them in the 'general waste' bin at home, along with most everything else, except for the bottles, plastics and cans that go in the clattering 'recycling' bin.


Only partly. Most UK waste sorting facilities will use magnets to draw out the ferrous content, and systems to wash out the biodegradable matter (foodstuffs), and some have more advanced systems that can remove thin plastics and paper with an air-blow system, but mostly it just gets piled up and driven over with big tractors with spiked wheels to compact it.

(a typical UK landfill site, followed by a disappointing map of current UK landfill sites)

View attachment 62764
View attachment 62765
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We’re not short of landfill sites by the looks of it..
 
Tunn11 said:
I suggest that if everyone has an electromagnet fitted to their cars which only works when driving West to East (or the other way about I'm not sure which way the core is meant to rotate) it will help the core to start rotating the correct way again.

The magnets should only cost £9 -£10,000 to fit and cars without them should pay double tax.

It sounds expensive but it is saving the planet.
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Further reading:

Earth's inner core may have stopped spinning as part of seven-decade cycle, say scientists
The spinning core at the centre of Earth may have recently stopped rotating, relative to the surface, as part of a seven-decade cycle, scientists have said.
A study said the inner core, which is the size of Pluto, could have stopped spinning around 2009.
This could be possible because the inner core is mostly a solid ball of iron floating in a liquid outer core, so its rotation is not necessarily tied to that of the rest of the planet.
Scientists also said the inner core may have started to spin in the opposite direction instead.
https://news.sky.com/story/earths-i...of-seven-decade-cycle-say-scientists-12795002
 
The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists has move the Doomsday Clock to 90 seconds until midnight.

Basically, their article says the earth and its inhabitants are in danger.
 
Going back to talking about the people who can least afford things paying more. This is what is so wrong about the extended ultra low emission zone that’s going to cover Greater London.

If you have an old car and can’t afford a new one you’ll have to pay £12.50. I live right by the border and I worked in a London borough during covid. If it was now and my car was only slightly older I’d have to pay £12.50 just to go to work.

There’s a Facebook group up in arms about it and they’ve put up articles that says outer London’s air is generally ok, it’s inner London that is the problem. Like where they’ve had the charge for ages. So is it for the environment or to screw money out of people who can’t afford it?
 
MorningAngel said:
Going back to talking about the people who can least afford things paying more. This is what is so wrong about the extended ultra low emission zone that’s going to cover Greater London.

If you have an old car and can’t afford a new one you’ll have to pay £12.50. I live right by the border and I worked in a London borough during covid. If it was now and my car was only slightly older I’d have to pay £12.50 just to go to work.

There’s a Facebook group up in arms about it and they’ve put up articles that says outer London’s air is generally ok, it’s inner London that is the problem. Like where they’ve had the charge for ages. So is it for the environment or to screw money out of people who can’t afford it?
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I'm also close to the border. It is also a great way to get people who don't live in London to pay money into London's coffers. I think some boroughs have refused to fit the cameras that will be used to find transgressors as it's likely to impact local economies.
They'd need a lot in some places as there are a lot of small roads that would allow access, if not to shops and High Streets certainly to some areas.
There's a lot more to it but we'd be entering forbidden political territory, it will certainly impact more on those least able to afford it.
 
It's purely for generating revenue.
Those that support it whine "Oh but it's for better air quality" but try telling that to people living on the outer edge of the zone that are in a little village on (EG) the North Downs and have to pay £12.50 to turn right out of their driveway and go down an empty country lane, instead of turning left down the same empty country lane.
 
If you don't want people to use cars then you need better public transport. I used to drive the twenty odd miles to work and twenty odd back each day and often had to pay for parking as well. The public transport option was: walk four miles to the station, take a train to central London, take a train back to outer London, walk about a mile to work - Reverse all this to come home - and it would cost more!
 
RaM said:
They seem hell bent on forcing the less well off off the roads but winge and wail
when car output falls, the price of motoring as now passed or getting to the
tipping point of what it's worth, the age of the motor car has passed and they
are a distressed buy to many,

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-25/car-production-sinks-to-lowest-level-since-1950s
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It's not just car output that will be impacted.
Imagine how much more difficult it will be for people to get to work. This will make things difficult for many employers based in London.
What many companies will do is to move out of London.
This will have a major effect on commercial properties initially, followed by the housing market.
Business in London will grind to a halt and there will be bankruptcies.
 
Mythopoeika said:
It's not just car output that will be impacted.

Business in London will grind to a halt and there will be bankruptcies.
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Amusingly (though not for the firm concerned, obvs), the ULEZ has been the final straw for a company supplying headed notepaper to - er - many MPs…

Langford Printers has closed down:

https://order-order.com/2023/01/23/mps-personally-hit-by-ulez-expansion/

Whether rubbing their noses in this real-life instance of the hardship caused by ULEZ will intrude into the bubble occupied by our lords and masters is another question.

:rolleyes:

maximus otter
 
Tunn11 said:
More on extension of ULEZ zone in Greater London here: A lot of concerns from some of the areas affected based on timescales and effects on the less well off. Some authorities mounting a legal challenge and refusing enforcement cameras where they are able.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64373344
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It's a stupid scheme that achieves nothing for the environment, but rakes in money and makes everybody miserable.
Londoners need to resist it more strongly.
 
Mythopoeika said:
It's a stupid scheme that achieves nothing for the environment, but rakes in money and makes everybody miserable.
Londoners need to resist it more strongly.
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Outer London doesn’t have the same public transport infrastructure that central London does. The Elizabeth Line doesn’t even make it as far as us (even though it goes out to Reading the other side but don’t get me started).
 
MorningAngel said:
Outer London doesn’t have the same public transport infrastructure that central London does.
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Very few tube lines go 'south of the river' generally, because over the decades when the majority of the tube network was first built it was discovered that the composition of the ground changes as you head south-east, becoming much more sandy/gravelly and unstable, which prevented the prevailing tunnel-building techniques of the time from being adequate for construction of same.
A lot of urban-sprawl development came later, and then it was found that people were oddly resistant to having their properties compulsorily purchased and knocked down to make way for new train lines etc.
Which is why places like Croydon ended up with modern tram services, years after perfectly serviceable tram lines and trolleybus routes were ripped up.
 
RaM said:
They seem hell bent on forcing the less well off off the roads but winge and wail
when car output falls, the price of motoring as now passed or getting to the
tipping point of what it's worth, the age of the motor car has passed and they
are a distressed buy to many,

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-25/car-production-sinks-to-lowest-level-since-1950s
Click to expand...
Tunn11 said:
If you don't want people to use cars then you need better public transport. I used to drive the twenty odd miles to work and twenty odd back each day and often had to pay for parking as well. The public transport option was: walk four miles to the station, take a train to central London, take a train back to outer London, walk about a mile to work - Reverse all this to come home - and it would cost more!
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Because they don't really want us to stop using our cars just as they don't really want us to stop drinking alcohol/fizzy drinks/smoking/eating fast, processed-food/flying around the world.... It all makes Billions for them. Stop it and the taxes would just have to come from somewhere else instead.
 
Trevp666 said:
Very few tube lines go 'south of the river' generally, because over the decades when the majority of the tube network was first built it was discovered that the composition of the ground changes as you head south-east, becoming much more sandy/gravelly and unstable, which prevented the prevailing tunnel-building techniques of the time from being adequate for construction of same.
A lot of urban-sprawl development came later, and then it was found that people were oddly resistant to having their properties compulsorily purchased and knocked down to make way for new train lines etc.
Which is why places like Croydon ended up with modern tram services, years after perfectly serviceable tram lines and trolleybus routes were ripped up.
Click to expand...
I think it’s ironic that trams were scrapped and then decades later they thought actually they were pretty good.

We were supposed to have the Elizabeth line but it cost too much in the first phase.
 
These were all over the car park at work. Save energy but not the planet apparently.
 

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Dozens of giant turbines at Scots windfarms powered by diesel generators

Dozens of giant turbines on Scotland’s windfarms have been powered by diesel generators, the Sunday Mail can reveal. Scottish Power admitted 71 of its windmills were hooked up to the fossil fuel supply after a fault developed on the grid.

The firm said it was forced to act in order to keep the turbines warm during very cold weather in December. But a whistleblower has [said that] the incident is among a number of environmental and health and safety failings.

Sixty turbines at Arecleoch Wind farm and 11 at Glenn App near Cairnrayn in South Ayrshire were affacted and connected to six huge diesel generators.

But the whistleblower revealed how they had to bring in generators after the issue was discovered.

The worker said: “During December 60 turbines at Arecleoch and 11 at Glenn App were de-energised due to a cabling fault originating at Mark Hill wind farm. In order to get these turbines re-energised diesel generators were running for upwards of six hours a day.”

[He added]: “Turbines are regularly offline due to faults where they are taking energy from the grid rather than producing it, and also left operating on half power for long periods due to parts which haven’t been replaced.

"Dirty hydraulic oil is also regularly being sprayed out across the Scottish countryside due to cracks in mechanisms. Safety standards have not improved since a worker was killed in 2017 at Kilgallioch wind farm.”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Dozens of giant turbines at Scots windfarms powered by diesel generators



The firm said it was forced to act in order to keep the turbines warm during very cold weather in December. But a whistleblower has [said that] the incident is among a number of environmental and health and safety failings.



maximus otter
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Gosh! Cold weather in Scotland in December, who'd a thought it. Pity there wasn't an amber warning. Never mind if they keep powering them with fossil fuel Scotland will warm up enough for them to work on wind power.
 
maximus otter said:
Dozens of giant turbines at Scots windfarms powered by diesel generators

Dozens of giant turbines on Scotland’s windfarms have been powered by diesel generators, the Sunday Mail can reveal. Scottish Power admitted 71 of its windmills were hooked up to the fossil fuel supply after a fault developed on the grid.

The firm said it was forced to act in order to keep the turbines warm during very cold weather in December. But a whistleblower has [said that] the incident is among a number of environmental and health and safety failings.

Sixty turbines at Arecleoch Wind farm and 11 at Glenn App near Cairnrayn in South Ayrshire were affacted and connected to six huge diesel generators.

But the whistleblower revealed how they had to bring in generators after the issue was discovered.

The worker said: “During December 60 turbines at Arecleoch and 11 at Glenn App were de-energised due to a cabling fault originating at Mark Hill wind farm. In order to get these turbines re-energised diesel generators were running for upwards of six hours a day.”

[He added]: “Turbines are regularly offline due to faults where they are taking energy from the grid rather than producing it, and also left operating on half power for long periods due to parts which haven’t been replaced.

"Dirty hydraulic oil is also regularly being sprayed out across the Scottish countryside due to cracks in mechanisms. Safety standards have not improved since a worker was killed in 2017 at Kilgallioch wind farm.”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

maximus otter
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They don't give a hoot about the environment.
 
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