Not As Environmentally Friendly As Promised

Trevp666

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I include 'electric vehicles' in with 'private motorist' TBH.
 

Kondoru

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This year for some reason both me and my Dad (Regular petrolheads both of us) have for some reason driven far less.

And we seem to be happy enough.

(Its a shame the local authority wont put on more buses though)
 

MorningAngel

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This year for some reason both me and my Dad (Regular petrolheads both of us) have for some reason driven far less.

And we seem to be happy enough.

(Its a shame the local authority wont put on more buses though)
Unfortunately I’ve had to drive more. I don’t like driving and usually walk to work but I’ve been sent to a different branch that I need to drive to.
 

Naughty_Felid

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Yes I both cycle and drive.
And I didn't mention road-tax. I refer to all the associated costs of owning a private vehicle.
The cycling is free of any kind of charge and I use a ATB cycle so mainly use off-road lanes. The only money I pay for cycling was the initial purchase cost of equipment.
Were it not for the government building the roads and cycle lanes in the first place they would not be there for me to use, and the money had to come from somewhere.
My point was not to 'knock' cycling and cyclists, being one myself, but to point out the irony of the increase in pollution (and greater cost) etc for me to use the roads as a car driver too, roads that are being decreased in size leading to traffic jams etc as per the title of this thread.

My sub-question in reaction to your comment though is this.......once all the private motorists have been forced off the roads, and other forms of transport are electrified, where is the revenue going to be generated from to maintain the roads and cycle paths?
It will no longer come from Vehicle Excise Duty, or Fuel Duty, or MOT payments, or vehicle sale tax, or the VAT on all the other purchases (insurance, servicing, repairs, tyres, cleaning, etc etc) that a private motorist has to make.
The assertion that us cyclists pay the same amount as drivers do in taxes to support the transport infrastructure is totally incorrect once those additional costs are factored in.
I would hate to see how maintaining the transport infrastructure could be funded to the same level if private vehicle ownership was replaced by cycling alone.
Great that you are a cyclist, good to see the term ATB still being used. You should come over the cycling thread and post more, post pics etc.

Nobody is saying cycling should replace private vehicle ownership - dunno where you got that from. What us cyclists are saying is that making it safer to cycle will have a knock-on effect on health and congestion.

Stu has pretty much covered it. Traffic jams are caused by volume. Reduce the need to use one person in a car journeys you'll reduce traffic jams. Also, you are removing potential car drivers if you build good cycle lines which again reduces congestion. I don't know of any research that suggests actively discouraging cycling in cities decreases congestion. Still, it's been a while since I read up on this.

As a cyclist, you'll know that cycling in traffic the pollution, danger, road rage is pretty evident - you can feel it when driving as well. That's the whole point of reducing single person car journeys. Make the whole experience of travel much more pleasant.

The knock-on effect is increasing Pedestrianization of urban areas. With the death of the high street, it seems like the answer to make cities nice places to go. Make it safer, less polluted then people will visit. That's why the pedestrian advocates and cycling advocates, work hand in hand.

It's years since I looked into the actual figures but memory suggests the various auto taxes don't cover anywhere near the cost of maintaining the road infrastructure.

Essentially vehicular use is going to change. We have to change with it and I'm sure as Stu has said we won't be cycling around in a Walking Dead landscape.

Awaits the "we should be taxing cyclists" post.
 

Trevp666

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We should be taxing cyclists.
 

Mythopoeika

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Yes I both cycle and drive.
And I didn't mention road-tax. I refer to all the associated costs of owning a private vehicle.
The cycling is free of any kind of charge and I use a ATB cycle so mainly use off-road lanes. The only money I pay for cycling was the initial purchase cost of equipment.
Were it not for the government building the roads and cycle lanes in the first place they would not be there for me to use, and the money had to come from somewhere.
My point was not to 'knock' cycling and cyclists, being one myself, but to point out the irony of the increase in pollution (and greater cost) etc for me to use the roads as a car driver too, roads that are being decreased in size leading to traffic jams etc as per the title of this thread.

My sub-question in reaction to your comment though is this.......once all the private motorists have been forced off the roads, and other forms of transport are electrified, where is the revenue going to be generated from to maintain the roads and cycle paths?
It will no longer come from Vehicle Excise Duty, or Fuel Duty, or MOT payments, or vehicle sale tax, or the VAT on all the other purchases (insurance, servicing, repairs, tyres, cleaning, etc etc) that a private motorist has to make.
The assertion that us cyclists pay the same amount as drivers do in taxes to support the transport infrastructure is totally incorrect once those additional costs are factored in.
I would hate to see how maintaining the transport infrastructure could be funded to the same level if private vehicle ownership was replaced by cycling alone.
If all the cars are forced off the road... guess who will have to pay a road tax? Cyclists!
 

Trevp666

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hunck

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I wonder how long it will be until a report is released to show that the miles and miles of expanded size cycle lanes in major UK towns (which are not being used, and reduced the amount of available road space for the vehicles that contribute towards the upkeep of same) have contributed to an increase in CO2 levels and particulates as the existing traffic has been slowed considerably.
Eyes down, look in for another cycling/cars bitchfest.

If you have any figures I'm prepared to listen. Air quality in towns is a major issue. Maybe it's too early to tell. Existing air quality in some towns is not good.
 

gordonrutter

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Eyes down, look in for another cycling/cars bitchfest.

If you have any figures I'm prepared to listen. Air quality in towns is a major issue. Maybe it's too early to tell. Existing air quality in some towns is not good.
People are welcome to engage in polite debates as much as they like (and are encouraged to do so), but if things degenerate into a slanging match / bitchfest then rest assured the appropriate actions will be taken by the mods.
 

Naughty_Felid

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People are welcome to engage in polite debates as much as they like (and are encouraged to do so), but if things degenerate into a slanging match / bitchfest then rest assured the appropriate actions will be taken by the mods.
I love Myth he knows that.
 

Kondoru

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If the cars are off the roads, we wont need to spend out so much on infrastructure, will we?
 

bugmum

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I used to cycle to work once or twice a week, before I had a small child to taxi to school in the middle of town. Since then my bike has been sold - my elder son recognised it outside Plymouth Uni at one point.
I quite enjoyed the cycling, but it was hard work. There are some bloody big hills round here, especially when you're a displaced Fen girl and the years are creeping onwards. No amount of cycle infrastructure can help with that.
 

Mythopoeika

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If the cars are off the roads, we wont need to spend out so much on infrastructure, will we?
The roads will still need a certain amount of maintenance because of the ravages of the weather. Frost shattering of tarmac, erosion and flooding - it all needs to be fixed afterwards.
 

MorningAngel

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The roads will still need a certain amount of maintenance because of the ravages of the weather. Frost shattering of tarmac, erosion and flooding - it all needs to be fixed afterwards.
The roads were I drive to work are awful and that’s in a car. They would be pretty dangerous for two wheels.
 

Krepostnoi

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I used to cycle to work once or twice a week, before I had a small child to taxi to school in the middle of town. Since then my bike has been sold - my elder son recognised it outside Plymouth Uni at one point.
I quite enjoyed the cycling, but it was hard work. There are some bloody big hills round here, especially when you're a displaced Fen girl and the years are creeping onwards. No amount of cycle infrastructure can help with that.
E-bikes. I had one back when we still lived in the Calder Valley, and it opened up the lateral routes to me, not just the canal towpath that ran longitudinally. Mind you, it weighed a ton when the juice ran out: the battery pack contained 3 big lead-acid affairs that between them managed about 20 miles on the flat. Newer models with lithium batteries should be much lighter, and get you much further. I believe Madame Snail and her consort ride such conveyances.
 

bugmum

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E-bikes. I had one back when we still lived in the Calder Valley, and it opened up the lateral routes to me, not just the canal towpath that ran longitudinally. Mind you, it weighed a ton when the juice ran out: the battery pack contained 3 big lead-acid affairs that between them managed about 20 miles on the flat. Newer models with lithium batteries should be much lighter, and get you much further. I believe Madame Snail and her consort ride such conveyances.
My husband had a battery-powered bike back in the mid-90s, and apart from the din it made, he used to enjoy whizzing past people on it. Then he decided he needed to power himself, possibly coinciding with the battery dying, and went back to pedal power for the next ten years or so.

If we had moved into the country earlier this year, we were going to treat ourselves to a couple of powered mountain bikes. However, we didn't, so we're getting wood flooring instead. :-D. I've seen a couple of people on campus on powered mountain bikes, and boy, do those things move!
 

MorningAngel

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“An electric vehicle will burn for much longer than an internal combustion vehicle. They give off potentially explosive and toxic fumes. They can reignite hours, days or weeks after the incident," says Prof Christensen.

That’s something to look forward to. They’re pushing for electric cars but the electricity has to come from somewhere, they’ll have to be loads of my charging places, the batteries are hell I dispose of (but it’s so environmentally friendly) and now they burn for ages if they’ve been in an accident.

The explosive problem of 'zombie' batteries https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54634802
 

EnolaGaia

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“An electric vehicle will burn for much longer than an internal combustion vehicle. They give off potentially explosive and toxic fumes. They can reignite hours, days or weeks after the incident," says Prof Christensen. ...
Coincidentally ...
GM recalling nearly 69K Bolt electric cars due to fire risk

General Motors is recalling nearly 69,000 Chevrolet Bolt electric cars worldwide because the batteries have caught fire in five of them.

The company said Friday that it doesn’t know yet what’s causing the fires, but engineers are working to figure it out. Two people have suffered smoke inhalation due to the fires and a house was set ablaze. ...
FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/fires-ed941b046a881d0a75664109ddef9613
 

maximus otter

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Trevp666

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The clue is in the article though.
The Treasury is concerned about 'the switch to electric cars'.
No mention of the massively polluting Trucks and Buses, Cruise Ships, Cargo Vessels, Aeroplanes, Taxis, Construction Vehicles, Farm machinery, etc etc etc.
Just cars. You know, the ones that pay a massive amount of 'fuel duty', the ones that pay a purchase tax on their new vehicles, the ones that pay a Vehicle Excise Duty every year.
Plus, once all our electricity needs are produced solely by 'sustainable' means like Wind and Solar (hahahahahaha dont make me laugh, like that's ever going to be possible here in the UK, but we'll just pretend for the purposes of this post) surely that will be cheaper than traditional power generation as there is no need for costly fuels.

Yet again it's another opportunity to hammer the private motorist, even once everyone is driving around in environmentally friendly cars.
 

Analogue Boy

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The clue is in the article though.
The Treasury is concerned about 'the switch to electric cars'.
No mention of the massively polluting Trucks and Buses, Cruise Ships, Cargo Vessels, Aeroplanes, Taxis, Construction Vehicles, Farm machinery, etc etc etc.
Just cars. You know, the ones that pay a massive amount of 'fuel duty', the ones that pay a purchase tax on their new vehicles, the ones that pay a Vehicle Excise Duty every year.
Plus, once all our electricity needs are produced solely by 'sustainable' means like Wind and Solar (hahahahahaha dont make me laugh, like that's ever going to be possible here in the UK, but we'll just pretend for the purposes of this post) surely that will be cheaper than traditional power generation as there is no need for costly fuels.

Yet again it's another opportunity to hammer the private motorist, even once everyone is driving around in environmentally friendly cars.
Or working from home.... and getting taxed for that as well.
 

Mythopoeika

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O

Or working from home.... and getting taxed for that as well.
Eventually, the government will force us all to wear masks that meter our breathing and will then tax us on our air consumption.
 

Mythopoeika

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Why do you think Boris would do that?
I wasn't actually being serious, but with all the tax the government needs off us, I wouldn't discount it totally.
 
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