• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.
always good to have a powerful enemy if you want rich powerful businesses to remain powerful and rich !
 
no news on Gareth Williams for 5 years ( when it was ruled a sex game gone wrong ) and suddenly they have all the information, even down to how it was done, what chemicals poisons etc etc... none of this in the original inquiry !!
and all available to link to the current blame Russia for every woe in the world.. and the Majority of people fall for it every time... mind you.... its probably safer to just accept the Media's slant on stuff !!!
 
least we forget the details

"
Memory sticks found among MI6 officer Gareth Williams's possessions in his office were examined by the Secret Intelligence Service but never handed over to detectives investigating his murder, it emerged on Tuesday.

Detectives only discovered on Monday, as his inquest drew to a close, that nine assorted memory sticks were in his locker at MI6's Vauxhall Cross offices, where he worked. The SIS also examined "electronic media" found without telling police."

2012

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/may/01/gareth-williams-mi6-kept-spy-possessions

6 years later and a mole tells Mi6 all about it !!!
after they took all the evidence and wouldn't let the police have it
 
So let me get this straight in my head

Boris Karpichkov.. double agent was the mole who said williams was poisoned by Russia KGB and also the first person to say the Russians poisoned the Skripals.. nice , and that they poisoned him too.. but he got better..
 
"
KGB defector Boris Karpichkov said Brit spy Gareth Williams was murdered because he found out about a Russian mole at GCHQ where he worked and that his case is connected to the Skripals'.

And now police are probing links between Sergei and Yulia Skripals' poisoning in Salisbury and the death of codebreaker Williams.

The 31-year-old was found dead inside a locked red holdall in his bath in Pimlico, London, in 2010.

His death was previously dismissed as a bungled sex game.

"

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/la...CHQ-Boris-KarpichkovSergei-and-Yulia-Skripals
 
None of us knows exactly what happened. What you choose to believe is of course entirely up to you.
Well, at least, we know that the British government made a number of inaccurate assertions, sometimes despite that they lacked the evidence required to sustain their accusations.

Remember that a few pages back you were trying to convince us that Russia had nothing to do with the Litvinenko polonium assassination despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And which by the way, was under Putin's watch & almost beyond any doubt state sanctioned - the main perpetrator is now an MP - it's hard to conclude from that it was anything other than state sanctioned, which would seem to contradict your statement:
I have trouble to see how I could have tried to convince you of something that I am myself not convinced of, all what I was trying to say was that there were now reasons to doubts. Reasons which are still present, as there has been no official German denial. You may have a convincing scenario built on long investigations based on apparently reliable evidence, but even only one incompatible detail can lead to the whole house of cards to collapse. And if the statement by the German prosecutor is true, then this is the kind of situation we meet.

So you think the Skripal perpetrators are from the "British Deep State". They would have to be either state sanctioned or rogue operators acting on their own. Which do you reckon it is?
I don't know. Both are plausible, but it depends also on what you mean by state sanctionned, which might be understood as sanctionned by the elected, visible government ; or by rogue. As the Deep State is by its nature deeply ingrained in the structure of the state, defining its foreign policy and acting as the de facto true government, and at the same time rogue, tending permanently to impose its will on the legitimate, elected government (while being more representative of the state structure than the latter). If by state sanctionned you mean that it was done at the request of Theresa May's government, I don't know. But I doubt it. In the end, it doesn't really make a difference, as the elites who comprise of the Deep State are more at the heart of the government than May, who is only a stooge. Her days will pass, but the elites will still be there.

How do you know about this "planned false flag chemical attack by the British Deep State"? Do you have military intelligence connections? Perhaps you can let us know. I might have more faith in your analysis if you do.
Do we need military intelligence connections to make some suppositions based on the available facts ? Or to state that indeed, since a few years, the British state has pushed towards confrontation with Russia.

And the Pussy Riot man 'probably poisoned' - perhaps the British Deep State people popped over to Russia & did the deed [for some reason] but didn't succeed again.
I don't know much about this one ; but if there is any truth to it, then, whoever are the culprits, British or Russians, then it is the same question that has to be asked : why are they always failing ?
 
Last edited:
"How do you know about this "planned false flag chemical attack by the British Deep State"? Do you have military intelligence connections? Perhaps you can let us know. I might have more faith in your analysis if you do."

those sort of comments always make me laugh :) Perhaps you would ask next for the real perps to meet you for a drink and a natter at your local ?

To repeat what I said several pages back, short of a confession from the perpetrators I don't think there's anything which can't be scoffed at. I'm not sure even a full confession would stop speculation..

Analis made a statement. I just asked him how he knew, in a jokey way. It turns out he doesn't know, it's his theory. Fair enough, just don't present it as 'a fact'.
 
Hunck

In what way does Russia benefit from this ?
If they did indeed state sanction it ?

Plenty of other more direct ways to get everybody's back up than this..

The obvious answer is to get revenge on an ex Russian Intelligence colonel who'd turned double agent. Is this so very unlikely? It's not as if they don't have previous..

I don't think getting people's back up comes into it as a motive.
 
The obvious answer is to get revenge on an ex Russian Intelligence colonel who'd turned double agent.

It's not remotely unlikely.


But...I think he'd be dead. And using a military grade highly-deadly, unstable and traceable nerve agent, would, to me, seem unlikely.
 
I really think it's not as easy to kill someone as you think it is.
 
I really think it's not as easy to kill someone as you think it is.

It really is.

And if you have one of the best-funded, best-connected, totally ruthless and immoral assassination machines in the world, it's even easier.
 
I said "one of" purposely mate :)

Ah, OK, but you seem to be swallowing their wicked propaganda about how scary and effective they are hook, line and sinker. What if they're a bunch of clowns with ideas way above their station and a would-be murderous streak to back up their self-image?
 
Ah, OK, but you seem to be swallowing their wicked propaganda about how scary and effective they are hook, line and sinker. What if they're a bunch of clowns with ideas way above their station and a would-be murderous streak to back up their self-image?

Not swallowing anything mate. I just know how easy it is to kill someone.

But yes - the Russian Foreign Intelligence Services may be totally, totally, totally inept I guess...I mean it's possible I suppose...

Also...I think I already stated on this thread - I don't know, really, who Skripal is...none of us do. I can't trust anything that British government say, nor the Russian government. I know absolutely nothing about this event...if an event it even was...

Nobody here does.
 
always the usual suspect
just like this was an impossible suicide then russia did it !!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomwarren/secrets-of-the-spy-in-the-bag

You've got to admit the spy in the bag is as weird as it gets. It goes without saying we only 'know' the details reported, but to me it's more believable that he was murdered than he stuffed himself in the bag as some sort of sexual act & couldn't get out. Central heating turned up to speed up decomposition..

If you read it in a story you'd find it hard to believe.
 
If you read it in a story you'd find it hard to believe.

And that of course is the problem with which we are sometimes faced. Actual reality is sometimes virtually impossible to believe.
I am still of the view that simply because the Salisbury incident/Russian connection looks like a fiasco, it does not mean that how it has been presented to us is not the correct solution.
As an aside on the subject of total cick ups by Governments, a friend of mine has mutual mundane common interests with someone who works with an "agency". He has said on more than one occasion that apparent total fiascos are much more common than you would think.
 
Here is some further input which will no doubt enrage certain of our "full-time" forum posters...

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...eratives-prior-european-operations-disclosed/



Skripal Suspects Confirmed as GRU Operatives: Prior European Operations Disclosed
September 20, 2018

By Bellingcat Investigation Team


In the previous part of a joint investigation, Bellingcat and The Insider – Russia established that:

  • Alexander Petrov – a fake cover persona for a yet unidentified Russian individual – is not a civilian but linked to one of Russia’s security services. This assessment was based on an exhaustive analysis of “Petrov” passport dossier as obtained from the Russian central passport database.
  • Petrov and Boshirov made last-minute travel plans to fly to the United Kingdom, which – coupled with the double-booking of return flights on two consecutive dates – makes the “tourism” explanation implausible.
  • Petrov and Boshirov travelled on international passports that differed by 3 consecutive digits, making it implausible that they were civilians who obtained their passports through the regular, entropic passport application process available to Russian citizens.
Since the publication of the first part of this investigation, other media have followed suit with obtaining access to, and disclosing the passport file of “Ruslan Boshirov” – the second suspect in the Skripals poisoning. The leaked passport file extracts similarly displayed characteristics atypical of a civilian person’ passport. Bellingcat can confirm the authenticity of the leaked passport file of “Boshirov”, and that it contains all three markings that helped identify “Petrov” as a security-service asset: “Top Secret” annotations, a blank biographical page referring to a secret attached letter, a “do not provide information” stamp, and issuing authority unit 777001, exclusively used for state VIPs and intelligence officers. In addition, “Boshirov” also has no recorded history prior to the issuance of his domestic ID passport in 2010 (2009 in “Petrov”’s case)

ss.jpg



GRU Officers

Bellingcat and the Insider can confirm definitively that both “Alexander Petrov” and “Ruslan Boshirov” are active GRU officers. This conclusion is based both on objective data and on discussions with confidential Russian sources familiar with the identity of at least one of the two persons.

A Numbers Game

As we wrote in the first part of this investigation. “Alexander Petrov”’s passport file contained a stamp with the marking “Do not provide data”, followed by a cryptic number. The same stamp – and the same number – appeared in “Boshirov”’s dossier.

Following the publication of part 1, Novaya Gazeta hypothesized that the number sequence may be a telephone number that belongs – based on comparing number pattern – to the Russian Ministry of Defense. In addition, at least two reporters were able to call that number and speak to someone confirming this is a Ministry of Defense line.

Bellingcat and the Insider have obtained documents proving that the number on the suspects’ stamps indeed is identical to a telephone number that belongs to the Ministry of Defense, and is located at Khoroshevskoe Chausse – where the Headquarters of the GRU is based.

In a centralized database called “Unified State Telephone Directory of the Moscow Region”, dated 2012, the telephone number from the dossier stamps – 1957966, preceded by the Moscow prefix 495 – is found to belong to a telephone exchange with “zone of operation: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation”

tel.png


Additionally, many listed telephone numbers in the Moscow telephone database that start with 1957*** have addresses located at Khoroshevskoe Chausse, such as the Ministry of Defense-owned magazine “Foreign Military Review”. The only military unit at or near Khoroshevskoe Chausse is the headquarters of the GRU.

ssmalltel.png

However, it’s two other numbers that provide the most corroborative link between the two Skripal suspects and the GRU. It’s their international passport numbers.

As discussed in the previous installment, the two suspects’ international-travel passports were not recorded in their passport files – which is atypical for the Russian passport dossier system. This suggests the passports were issued by a special agency that does not report to the centralized registrar of government-issued ID’s, commonly known in Russia as the “FMS database”. Such a “disconnect” would be logical if this agency issues covert international passports under cover identities.

A “special issuing agency” would explain also the proximity of the passport numbers between the two suspects – only 3 intervening digits (as one would assume that Russian, internationally active secret-service agents are a finite, relatively small number).

Bellingcat and the Insider have previously investigated and reported on a different GRU officer who also traveled under a cover persona and passport. This was the case of Col. Eduard Shishmakov, a former Russian Military Attaché in Warsaw expelled by Poland in 2014 for espionage. Col. Shishmakov, using an undercover (albeit not very creative) persona and passport in the name of Eduard Shirokov, travelled to Serbia in October 2016 to supervise – as alleged by the Montenegro special prosecutor – a failed coup against the pro-Western government in Podgorica. In a previous report, the Insider identified that Col. Shirokov wired funds to a co-conspirator in Serbia via Western Union, using the address of the GRU headquarters as the “Sender” address.

Bellingcat compared the passport number on Col. Shishmakov’s cover-identity passport, with the numbers of the (cover-identity) passports of “Petrov” and “Boshirov”. The numbers were from the same batch, with only 26 intervening passport numbers between “Petrov”’s (654341297), and “Shirokov”’s (654341323) number. “Shirokov”’s passport was issued in August 2016, implying that Petrov’s and Boshirov’s passports were issued by the same special authority earlier that year. Indeed, as we will see in their international itinerary below, they start travelling in early April 2016, suggesting that only 26 passports were issued by this special authority between April and August 2016.

eduard.png

There can be little doubt that both Shishmakov/Shirokov, and “Petrov”/”Boshirov” acquired their cover passports under the same, restricted procedure – and in the same batch of sequence numbers – available to secret service officers. As Shishmakov’s link to GRU has been established incontrovertibly before, it is unlikely that “Petrov” and “Boshirov” are assets of a different Russian intelligence service, especially in light of the MoD telephone numbers marked on their passport dossiers.



GRU TOURS

Bellingcat and the Insider have obtained “Petrov”‘s and “Boshirov”s border crossing data for a number of countries in Europe and Asia, for the period of validity of their international passports (mid-2016 through today). Their globe-trotting, unpredictably meandering itinerary is at times reminiscent of characters out of Mission Impossible, yet a focus on the countries of Western Europe is clearly visible.

bosh2-1.png



The two operatives’ international globe-hopping on their newly issued passport start on April 8th 2016, when “Petrov” (or Petrov and Boshirov, as our investigation tracked only Petrov’s passport data) drives to Minsk, the capital of Belarus, to fly out from there to Amsterdam. He arrives in the Netherlands two days after the hotly disputed referendum on Ukraine’s EU accession, and flies back to Moscow 10 days later.

The second trip Petrov takes up is perplexing. On July 11th 2016, he crosses the border from Russia into Kazakhstan by bus, and reports to Kazakh border authorities “Beijing” as his final destination. It is uncertain as to how he planned to reach the capital of China, given the more than 5000 km between the border-crossing point and Beijing. It is possible that he gave that destination as a decoy, or that he planned to ride to Astana and then take a plane to China. Whatever his plans were, we lose track of him for the next 15 days, when he shows up again on a flight back to Moscow – from Israel’s capital Tel-Aviv.

Two months later, Petrov takes a trip to Amsterdam, and from there flies to London – this appears to be his – or their – first trip to the United Kingdom, where less than two years later they will be suspected of smearing Novichok on the door handle of a former colleague. It is not certain how much time he spent in the UK, but the total Netherlands-UK trip lasted just under a week

Petrov’s next trip is again to Amsterdam – two months after returning from London. This time he stays in Europe 12 days, and returns to Moscow on a flight from Paris at the end of November.

Petrov’s next trip is on February 28th 2017, and it is – once again – to the United Kingdom. He stays there for 6 days, and returns, sinisterly, on March 4th – the same day they will poison Sergey Skripal and his daughter a year later.

Between September 2017 and February 2018, Petrov makes five trips to France and Switzerland, usually landing in Paris and returning from Geneva. The last trip is the longest – he spends two weeks in Europe, between January 23 and February 6th, and flies into – and back from – Geneva.

The next trip is their last to Europe – on March 2nd 2018 they both land at Gatwick, having purchased their tickets the previous evening – on the day before Sergey Skripal’s daughter would arrive in London.

Netherlands Arrests?

A source in a Western European law-enforcement agency informed Bellingcat that Petrov and Boshirov were arrested on the territory of the Netherlands. No information was provided as to the time and context of such arrests. European media have previously reported arrests and deportation of two unidentified Russian spies on Dutch soil; leaked police information linked the arrests with attempts by the two to smuggle hacking equipment to Switzerland, with the goal to infiltrate the Spiez laboratory. The Spiez lab worked on investigating the chemical attacks in Syria, and later on determining the poisoning agent in the Skripal case.

Even though the media outlets that broke this story reported that the incident took place in the spring of 2018, they acknowledged that the exact time was unknown. Bellingcat and the Insider will continue to investigate whether the hypothetical arrest of “Petrov” and “Boshirov” on Dutch soil did take place as reported, and if so, whether such arrest was linked to the reported arrests of two spies in the Netherlands.
 
Here is some further input which will no doubt enrage certain of our "full-time" forum posters...

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...eratives-prior-european-operations-disclosed/


Skripal Suspects Confirmed as GRU Operatives: Prior European Operations Disclosed
September 20, 2018

By Bellingcat Investigation Team


In the previous part of a joint investigation, Bellingcat and The Insider – Russia established that:

  • Alexander Petrov – a fake cover persona for a yet unidentified Russian individual – is not a civilian but linked to one of Russia’s security services. This assessment was based on an exhaustive analysis of “Petrov” passport dossier as obtained from the Russian central passport database.
  • Petrov and Boshirov made last-minute travel plans to fly to the United Kingdom, which – coupled with the double-booking of return flights on two consecutive dates – makes the “tourism” explanation implausible.
  • Petrov and Boshirov travelled on international passports that differed by 3 consecutive digits, making it implausible that they were civilians who obtained their passports through the regular, entropic passport application process available to Russian citizens.
Since the publication of the first part of this investigation, other media have followed suit with obtaining access to, and disclosing the passport file of “Ruslan Boshirov” – the second suspect in the Skripals poisoning. The leaked passport file extracts similarly displayed characteristics atypical of a civilian person’ passport. Bellingcat can confirm the authenticity of the leaked passport file of “Boshirov”, and that it contains all three markings that helped identify “Petrov” as a security-service asset: “Top Secret” annotations, a blank biographical page referring to a secret attached letter, a “do not provide information” stamp, and issuing authority unit 777001, exclusively used for state VIPs and intelligence officers. In addition, “Boshirov” also has no recorded history prior to the issuance of his domestic ID passport in 2010 (2009 in “Petrov”’s case)

ss.jpg



GRU Officers

Bellingcat and the Insider can confirm definitively that both “Alexander Petrov” and “Ruslan Boshirov” are active GRU officers. This conclusion is based both on objective data and on discussions with confidential Russian sources familiar with the identity of at least one of the two persons.

A Numbers Game

As we wrote in the first part of this investigation. “Alexander Petrov”’s passport file contained a stamp with the marking “Do not provide data”, followed by a cryptic number. The same stamp – and the same number – appeared in “Boshirov”’s dossier.

Following the publication of part 1, Novaya Gazeta hypothesized that the number sequence may be a telephone number that belongs – based on comparing number pattern – to the Russian Ministry of Defense. In addition, at least two reporters were able to call that number and speak to someone confirming this is a Ministry of Defense line.

Bellingcat and the Insider have obtained documents proving that the number on the suspects’ stamps indeed is identical to a telephone number that belongs to the Ministry of Defense, and is located at Khoroshevskoe Chausse – where the Headquarters of the GRU is based.

In a centralized database called “Unified State Telephone Directory of the Moscow Region”, dated 2012, the telephone number from the dossier stamps – 1957966, preceded by the Moscow prefix 495 – is found to belong to a telephone exchange with “zone of operation: Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation”

tel.png


Additionally, many listed telephone numbers in the Moscow telephone database that start with 1957*** have addresses located at Khoroshevskoe Chausse, such as the Ministry of Defense-owned magazine “Foreign Military Review”. The only military unit at or near Khoroshevskoe Chausse is the headquarters of the GRU.

ssmalltel.png

However, it’s two other numbers that provide the most corroborative link between the two Skripal suspects and the GRU. It’s their international passport numbers.

As discussed in the previous installment, the two suspects’ international-travel passports were not recorded in their passport files – which is atypical for the Russian passport dossier system. This suggests the passports were issued by a special agency that does not report to the centralized registrar of government-issued ID’s, commonly known in Russia as the “FMS database”. Such a “disconnect” would be logical if this agency issues covert international passports under cover identities.

A “special issuing agency” would explain also the proximity of the passport numbers between the two suspects – only 3 intervening digits (as one would assume that Russian, internationally active secret-service agents are a finite, relatively small number).

Bellingcat and the Insider have previously investigated and reported on a different GRU officer who also traveled under a cover persona and passport. This was the case of Col. Eduard Shishmakov, a former Russian Military Attaché in Warsaw expelled by Poland in 2014 for espionage. Col. Shishmakov, using an undercover (albeit not very creative) persona and passport in the name of Eduard Shirokov, travelled to Serbia in October 2016 to supervise – as alleged by the Montenegro special prosecutor – a failed coup against the pro-Western government in Podgorica. In a previous report, the Insider identified that Col. Shirokov wired funds to a co-conspirator in Serbia via Western Union, using the address of the GRU headquarters as the “Sender” address.

Bellingcat compared the passport number on Col. Shishmakov’s cover-identity passport, with the numbers of the (cover-identity) passports of “Petrov” and “Boshirov”. The numbers were from the same batch, with only 26 intervening passport numbers between “Petrov”’s (654341297), and “Shirokov”’s (654341323) number. “Shirokov”’s passport was issued in August 2016, implying that Petrov’s and Boshirov’s passports were issued by the same special authority earlier that year. Indeed, as we will see in their international itinerary below, they start travelling in early April 2016, suggesting that only 26 passports were issued by this special authority between April and August 2016.

eduard.png

There can be little doubt that both Shishmakov/Shirokov, and “Petrov”/”Boshirov” acquired their cover passports under the same, restricted procedure – and in the same batch of sequence numbers – available to secret service officers. As Shishmakov’s link to GRU has been established incontrovertibly before, it is unlikely that “Petrov” and “Boshirov” are assets of a different Russian intelligence service, especially in light of the MoD telephone numbers marked on their passport dossiers.



GRU TOURS

Bellingcat and the Insider have obtained “Petrov”‘s and “Boshirov”s border crossing data for a number of countries in Europe and Asia, for the period of validity of their international passports (mid-2016 through today). Their globe-trotting, unpredictably meandering itinerary is at times reminiscent of characters out of Mission Impossible, yet a focus on the countries of Western Europe is clearly visible.

bosh2-1.png



The two operatives’ international globe-hopping on their newly issued passport start on April 8th 2016, when “Petrov” (or Petrov and Boshirov, as our investigation tracked only Petrov’s passport data) drives to Minsk, the capital of Belarus, to fly out from there to Amsterdam. He arrives in the Netherlands two days after the hotly disputed referendum on Ukraine’s EU accession, and flies back to Moscow 10 days later.

The second trip Petrov takes up is perplexing. On July 11th 2016, he crosses the border from Russia into Kazakhstan by bus, and reports to Kazakh border authorities “Beijing” as his final destination. It is uncertain as to how he planned to reach the capital of China, given the more than 5000 km between the border-crossing point and Beijing. It is possible that he gave that destination as a decoy, or that he planned to ride to Astana and then take a plane to China. Whatever his plans were, we lose track of him for the next 15 days, when he shows up again on a flight back to Moscow – from Israel’s capital Tel-Aviv.

Two months later, Petrov takes a trip to Amsterdam, and from there flies to London – this appears to be his – or their – first trip to the United Kingdom, where less than two years later they will be suspected of smearing Novichok on the door handle of a former colleague. It is not certain how much time he spent in the UK, but the total Netherlands-UK trip lasted just under a week

Petrov’s next trip is again to Amsterdam – two months after returning from London. This time he stays in Europe 12 days, and returns to Moscow on a flight from Paris at the end of November.

Petrov’s next trip is on February 28th 2017, and it is – once again – to the United Kingdom. He stays there for 6 days, and returns, sinisterly, on March 4th – the same day they will poison Sergey Skripal and his daughter a year later.

Between September 2017 and February 2018, Petrov makes five trips to France and Switzerland, usually landing in Paris and returning from Geneva. The last trip is the longest – he spends two weeks in Europe, between January 23 and February 6th, and flies into – and back from – Geneva.

The next trip is their last to Europe – on March 2nd 2018 they both land at Gatwick, having purchased their tickets the previous evening – on the day before Sergey Skripal’s daughter would arrive in London.

Netherlands Arrests?

A source in a Western European law-enforcement agency informed Bellingcat that Petrov and Boshirov were arrested on the territory of the Netherlands. No information was provided as to the time and context of such arrests. European media have previously reported arrests and deportation of two unidentified Russian spies on Dutch soil; leaked police information linked the arrests with attempts by the two to smuggle hacking equipment to Switzerland, with the goal to infiltrate the Spiez laboratory. The Spiez lab worked on investigating the chemical attacks in Syria, and later on determining the poisoning agent in the Skripal case.

Even though the media outlets that broke this story reported that the incident took place in the spring of 2018, they acknowledged that the exact time was unknown. Bellingcat and the Insider will continue to investigate whether the hypothetical arrest of “Petrov” and “Boshirov” on Dutch soil did take place as reported, and if so, whether such arrest was linked to the reported arrests of two spies in the Netherlands.

Pah!
You can prove anything with facts!
 
You've got to admit the spy in the bag is as weird as it gets. It goes without saying we only 'know' the details reported, but to me it's more believable that he was murdered than he stuffed himself in the bag as some sort of sexual act & couldn't get out. Central heating turned up to speed up decomposition..

Yes .. at the time I thought and posted here I seem to remember that I thought he had been murdered by some security office, be it Russian or other... was not taken seriously at the time, cause the media said it was a sex accident gone wrong... people beleive what the media say... 4 years later an ex spy turned to save his own bacon says it was Russians who did it, and with great detail I might add... then the old reasons the media provided are all forgotten and the new media push is taken on ?

that is what I am getting at !

People take things at face value. don't investigate the details... they follow what the Media regurgitates hook line and sinker..
 
Yes .. at the time I thought and posted here I seem to remember that I thought he had been murdered by some security office, be it Russian or other... was not taken seriously at the time, cause the media said it was a sex accident gone wrong... people beleive what the media say... 4 years later an ex spy turned to save his own bacon says it was Russians who did it, and with great detail I might add... then the old reasons the media provided are all forgotten and the new media push is taken on ?

that is what I am getting at !

People take things at face value. don't investigate the details... they follow what the Media regurgitates hook line and sinker..

Specially for you, Techers! -

meat packer.jpg
 
Back
Top