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Novichok In Salisbury: Secret Agents & Nerve Agents In Britain

Xbergmann

Interesting take on the passport numbers, but I only see the passport number of Shirokov... where are the screen grabs of the other two passports ?

they flew here and there and here and there... thats not evidence of wrong doing, people fly to amsterdam and paris often.. not evidence

They same two are also hacker experts ? trained killers etc ? there is no evidence they are the same two that tried to get into Holland ? thats hearsay..

Bellingcat investigations ? using their own plants in other things that have happened and they have been exposed before..

Finally

all that above you posted is interesting still..

why is it not available anywhere other than Bellingcat ?

I am not saying these two Russians didnt do this, they might have done

but the evidence is circumstantial so far..
 
Can I see the scans of these passport numbers of the two please... every piece of evidence so far is related only to those ?
take those two ( unproven, unseen ) numbers away and all the surmising falls into the abyss
 
Jonfairway said:
People take things at face value. don't investigate the details... they follow what the Media regurgitates hook line and sinker..
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I think you are underestimating people to a considerable degree. Personally I don't know anyone who takes media regurtitation at face value. I certainly don't take the schoolboy like protestations of the 2 interviewed Russians as anything other than a bad joke.
 
Jonfairway said:
Yes .. at the time I thought and posted here I seem to remember that I thought he had been murdered by some security office, be it Russian or other... was not taken seriously at the time, cause the media said it was a sex accident gone wrong... people beleive what the media say... 4 years later an ex spy turned to save his own bacon says it was Russians who did it, and with great detail I might add... then the old reasons the media provided are all forgotten and the new media push is taken on ?

that is what I am getting at !

People take things at face value. don't investigate the details... they follow what the Media regurgitates hook line and sinker..
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Well it's hard to investigate the details in cases like this where 'national security' is involved & the details reported are probably heavily censored. There must be a lot of detail which is kept back for 'classified' reasons.
 
Just to say "circumstantial evidence" doesn't mean "unconvincing evidence". It's still evidence, and can convict.
 
hunck said:
Well it's hard to investigate the details in cases like this where 'national security' is involved & the details reported are probably heavily censored. There must be a lot of detail which is kept back for 'classified' reasons.
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Hit the nail on the head there hunck. I'm amazed that anyone has this kind of access to individual Russian passports.
 
It's the story that keeps on giving, isn't it? :)


uair01 said:
The Kremlin assassins who attempted to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal with the Novichok nerve agent allegedly enjoyed a drug-fuelled night with a prostitute just hours before the Salisbury attack.
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Mm-hmm. Sure they did.

Or, the uk media realises we humble British public aren't buying the story and hating these two Russians enough, so they'll make up this story just so we'll have even more reason to dislike them.



Cavynaut said:
"The symptoms of Novichok poisoning and certain types of narcotic abuse are very similar"

Interesting.
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Very interesting... weren't Charlie and Dawn drug users?



blessmycottonsocks said:
The latest reports suggest that tests on the couple taken ill yesterday are still ongoing. Furthermore, the woman dining at the adjacent table claims the police told her the couple were Russian.
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Am I the only one who finds it strange that the police would tell this other woman that the couple were Russian? Why would they disclose that to her at all, it is of no relevance to her?

Unless of course this is being reported just to further the story.



Jonfairway said:
Can I see the scans of these passport numbers of the two please... every piece of evidence so far is related only to those ?
take those two ( unproven, unseen ) numbers away and all the surmising falls into the abyss
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At this point I'd even consider whether the photos of the passports are real... are we just taking them at face value that they are? Not being super-conspiratorial, just nothing would really surprise me in this.


There's certainly an agenda, as far as the British government is concerned, along with the media, in what they want us to think about this. As for the real truth? Who the heck knows. I don't.

:boh:
 
XEPER_ said:
What about the story I saw on Twitter earlier about the British Gas building in Edinburgh being evactuated with people being hospitalised as a result of a "chemical" thing? Anything to do with this?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-scottish-gas-hq-chemical-13287490
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Hmm... just had a look at the BBC news site but nothing much there about it, details are pretty sketchy. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-45612048

I'm inclined to think it's more likely to be a gas leak, though? It's quite a distance from Salisbury so I don't see how it would be related, unless I'm missing something.
 
XEPER_ said:
A gas leak at the British Gas headquarters? Seems a bit strange, but how is that a chemical incident?
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I was just going by what it said in the link you posted:

And one woman at the scene said: "There are lots of fire engines, police cars and ambulances.

“The area that building is on is known for having lots of pipes underground.

“There are also gas holding tanks in the area.

“It was contamination and clean-up issues that scuppered a proposed housing development some years ago.

“All the gas for most of Edinburgh used to be held in the area, so there are a huge number of underground pipes.”
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The description of how the people were feeling also could point to it being a gas leak:

One source told the Scottish Sun: “People were feeling ill all day in the office. Many with headaches.
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Gas is a chemical so technically speaking they'd be right to call it a chemical incident :) But I agree, it is an unusual way to refer to it, if it is 'just' a gas leak. Time will tell.
 
GNC said:
Just to say "circumstantial evidence" doesn't mean "unconvincing evidence". It's still evidence, and can convict.
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I think it's right to point out that the often implied worthlessness of circumstantial evidence is misleading. The value of circumstantial evidence is based on the reasonable inference that can be made from it, and how supported that inference is by other direct and indirect (circumstantial) evidence.

It’s my understanding that a fingerprint at the scene of a break-in is circumstantial, that semen on the sheets of a murder victim is circumstantial, a blood soaked hammer in a running man's hand, is circumstantial - none of which facts are 'worthless' as evidence. The value of the evidence is based on its quality and on its place within a larger body of data, not simply on its classification as circumstantial.

That said, it does seem to me that the circumstantial evidence in this case is poor – this is not to say that an inference cannot be proposed, just that it needs more meat, and of a better quality, for that inference to shift convincingly from the region of possibility into that of likelihood.

Incidentally - I can't remember who suggested it - but I don’t believe that anyone here has fallen for anything ‘hook, line and sinker’. Allowing, amongst other possibilities, the possibility that the official version might just be something like the correct one, is actually keeping an open mind – automatically discounting the official version simply because it’s the official version is not.
 
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Spookdaddy said:
Incidentally - I can't remember who suggested it - but I don’t believe that anyone here has fallen for anything ‘hook, line and sinker’. Allowing, amongst other possibilities, the possibility that the official version might just be something like the correct one, is actually keeping an open mind – automatically discounting the official version simply because it’s the official version is not.
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Absolutely correct- unfortunately it has become almost de rigueur amongst the conspiracy theorists to automatically discount official versions of events.
 
PeteS said:
Absolutely correct- unfortunately it has become almost de rigueur amongst the conspiracy theorists to automatically discount official versions of events.
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And de rigeur from others to automatically discount unofficial theories and hypothetical versions of events.


Two sides of the same coin.

Said it before on this thread - if you think you've got it figured out, you're wrong.


See also - life.
 
Coastaljames said:
And de rigeur from others to automatically discount unofficial theories and hypothetical versions of events.


Two sides of the same coin.

Said it before on this thread - if you think you've got it figured out, you're wrong.


See also - life.
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Correct also. But there will be one solution that is the right one.
 
PeteS said:
Correct also. But there will be one solution that is the right one.
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Life's often not like that.


And, I'd add this - if it genuinely is espionage/intelligence/spycraft activity - as at least the British government tell us it is then the likelihood of us being told everything either by them, or by the Russians, is precisely nil.
 
hunck said:
Well it's hard to investigate the details in cases like this where 'national security' is involved & the details reported are probably heavily censored. There must be a lot of detail which is kept back for 'classified' reasons.
Click to expand...


same as usual... who was it said " You can't handle the truth" ...
 
Spookdaddy said:
I think it's right to point out that the often implied worthlessness of circumstantial evidence is misleading. The value of circumstantial evidence is based on the reasonable inference that can be made from it, and how supported that inference is by other direct and indirect (circumstantial) evidence.

It’s my understanding that a fingerprint at the scene of a break-in is circumstantial, that semen on the sheets of a murder victim is circumstantial, a blood soaked hammer in a running man's hand, is circumstantial - none of which facts are 'worthless' as evidence. The value of the evidence is based on its quality and on its place within a larger body of data, not simply on its classification as circumstantial.

That said, it does seem to me that the circumstantial evidence in this case is poor – this is not to say that an inference cannot be proposed, just that it needs more meat, and of a better quality, for that inference to shift convincingly from the region of possibility into that of likelihood.

Incidentally - I can't remember who suggested it - but I don’t believe that anyone here has fallen for anything ‘hook, line and sinker’. Allowing, amongst other possibilities, the possibility that the official version might just be something like the correct one, is actually keeping an open mind – automatically discounting the official version simply because it’s the official version is not.
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but we don't have any of those types of circumstantial evidence ? .. we have Bellincat's behind the scenes secret tell all .. some Russians waking near to a house on the right day and some what look like doctored CCTV ?
 
PeteS said:
I think you are underestimating people to a considerable degree. Personally I don't know anyone who takes media regurtitation at face value. I certainly don't take the schoolboy like protestations of the 2 interviewed Russians as anything other than a bad joke.
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Under estimating any evidence ?
Before there is a media witch hunt should'nt there be some proper evidence ?
put yourself in the two Russians shoes...

In everybody's eyes in the west now they are Guilty..
and yet no real hard evidence has been released..

this is guilt by social media
twitter conviction
hanging by instagram
 
Coastaljames said:
And, I'd add this - if it genuinely is espionage/intelligence/spycraft activity - as at least the British government tell us it is then the likelihood of us being told everything either by them, or by the Russians, is precisely nil.
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And if it isn't the Russians offing an old spy... what's the next logical probability?
 
Jonfairway said:
Under estimating any evidence ?
Before there is a media witch hunt should'nt there be some proper evidence ?
put yourself in the two Russians shoes...

In everybody's eyes in the west now they are Guilty..
and yet no real hard evidence has been released..

this is guilt by social media
twitter conviction
hanging by instagram
Click to expand...
What evidence do you have that "in everybody's eyes in the west now they are Guilty"?
 
ok
so around 12 noon the couple handled the sprayed door handle
and then spent aprox 4 hours going to pub, driving going to restaurant etc etc before being see in a poor state
the copper who attended , and took a smaller dose ( we expect ) fell ill very soon.

isn't much more likely they were poisoned in the restaurant ?

if they got a good belt of the stuff off the door handle they wouldn't have got 4 hours in

the time line is all wrong
 
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