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Nowadays What Are Libraries For?

Ermintruder

Ermintruder

The greatest risk is to risk nothing at all...
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
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One of the many yet-to-be-commenced topics that I've had, precariously-perched within the 100+ Chrome browser tabs that I've had open for years on this thrashed smart-phone, is that of libraries.

Specifically, libraries now.

I love them, but nowadays maybe in the same way as I do museums. They cannot ever return to what they once were (unless the next substantial asteroid hits us, at which point their applied relevance as repositories of redemptive direction and applied inspiration might return.

What exactly are they, now? Are they large telephone boxes, in a world of mobile phones? Shrines of inspiration? Civic habit undertaken via gestalt moral blackmail?

I utterly adore them, but am totally-conflicted as to their actual purpose in the present day. They remind me of the classic old-school department stores in cities of the western world, miles of gleaming escalators and clothes-racks, around which we all must wander with slack-jawed purposelessness (we're certainly not there to buy anything FGS....)

So go ahead and counter my reluctant sacrilege. But you'd better make it good...

(nb I wouldn't be without them, and nor would kindergarten kids or street-sleepers. But what are they actually meant to be used for, now?)

(Mods- apologies: perhaps this deserves a seperate thread)
 
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Ermintruder said:
I love them, but nowadays maybe in the same way as I do museums. They cannot ever return to what they once were (unless the next substantial asteroid hits us, at which point their applied relevance as repositories of redemptive direction and applied inspiration might return.
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Have you seen the fillumThe Day After Tomorrow?
If not, don't!
 
escargot said:
priginal Rollerball
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One of my favourite films. Hugely underestimated, cinematic scifi at its classic best. I used to have the soundtrack on compact cassette, Bach's "Toccatta & Fugue" blasting out of my little tape-player later in the evening than it should've been. And the proper movie poster 'n all.

(ps you pwnwd me)
EDIT just looked it up. Nineteen-75, good grief. Set in 2018, wow, we're passed that here, already.

And meantime, back then http://www.uk-charts.top-source.info/top-100-1975.shtml the other soundtracks to our lives
2019-06-30 01.17.06.png
 
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Analogue Boy said:
Nowadays, a lot of libraries find themselves as drop in centres for pamphlets and information. Don’t think tourist centre ‘What’s the best Museum near here’ but ‘Where the actual fuck can I find a local doctor or dentist to sign up to?.
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Even before the Internet began undermining them, some local libraries had established something of a more interactive quick-reference motif for their services. It wasn't unusual for large city libraries to host a Q&A service allowing patrons / visitors to submit requests for information or answers to specific questions. In effect, it represented a help desk whose focus had shifted from how to use the library yourself toward how can you conveniently get whatever info you sought without having to wrestle with library stacks. I suppose it could be seen as a variation of the drive-thru window at a fast food restaurant.

This sort of theme has proliferated as libraries have sought ways of remaining relevant or attractive resources.

They've commonly positioned themselves in a sort of symbiotic (as opposed to competitive) relationship with the Internet by providing public access terminals or PC's.

My late brother finally bought a computer in the early 2000's. I encouraged him to go online, buying him a modem and setting up a sub-account within my own email provider so he could have email without having to pay for the service. He never used any of it ... From then until his death a dozen years later he doggedly preferred to drive 2 miles to a local library and perform his online activities using their public access PC's. The only clue I ever received as to why he did this was a vague allusion to doing his online research in the same place where he could readily use hardcopy resources as well.
 
I've got a computer but no printer, so if I need to print a letter or a form I go to my local library, use the computer there and pay 15p to have whatever I want printed.
I also still borrow books -those old fashioned papery things -to read on the bus etc.

Quite a few of us OAP's still do it.:)
 
Recycled1 said:
I've got a computer but no printer, so if I need to print a letter or a form I go to my local library, use the computer there and pay 15p to have whatever I want printed.
I also still borrow books -those old fashioned papery things -to read on the bus etc.

Quite a few of us OAP's still do it.:)
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A black and white laser is now very cheap (I bought one for £90). The toner never goes off, so you don't have the same issues as with an inkjet.
 
I have always been a huge fan of libraries. So much so that my first job after I left school was in the public library service.

However in recent years I must admit to being very disappointed with the state of the service. Our county library service has decided to expire membership every 3 years, which seems batty as the membership card can't be reused. The selection of books is abysmal, gone are the days of tatty paperbacks which may sound like a good thing but having worked in the service I know that books got that way from heavy usage. We used to do a lot of interbranch transfers but now every branch seems to have the same two dozen books in each category. So the local copy of a book will likely have only been borrowed a handful of times before it is retired.

The book selection is pretty poor. Having a gander round the shelves a couple of years ago I saw a lot of the "Fifty Shades" series and imitators. In the age of Amazon and other online sources of cheap books, it seems incredible to me that each library has been stocked up with a selection from the best sellers list when local charity shops have innumerable copies of the same.

I would think that a sensible direction for the public library to start evolving would be to stock more unusual, out of print and less well known titles. This would increase access to books which are presently hard to find and increase the relevance of the public library.
 
I did consider becoming a librarian myself, many moons ago when I was young. Glad I didn't, now - because the whole service has really declined and suffered many cutbacks.
The only time I've been in my local library was to vote in the recent EU elections. Out of curiosity, I browsed the shelves to see what they had in my fields of interest. There wasn't much of any note at all, so I didn't feel motivated to join the library. I like to have my own books anyway.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I did consider becoming a librarian myself, many moons ago when I was young. Glad I didn't, now - because the whole service has really declined and suffered many cutbacks.
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Yes, I am glad I didn't try to make a career there. I was quite the socialist when I was younger, and very public service oriented, now I am a wicked capitalist working as a systems programmer.

Mythopoeika said:
I like to have my own books anyway.
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Likewise but there's only so many books that fit in a house!
 
I can actually answer this, being both a library fan and a long-term member of my local makerspace.

Many libraries (at least in the States) are starting to add features that many makerspaces have. Laser cutters, 3D printers, that sort of thing. I'm on the fence about this, as I feel like those machines in particular are finicky and require significant knowledge to use properly, but I like how libraries are spreading out and finding new ways to stay relevant.

For those not in-the-know: Makerspaces are a global phenomenon. Think of most of them like a co-op, you pay a monthly fee to have access to tools and machinery (and knowledge!) that you wouldn't be able to afford on your own (or if you live in an apartment, couldn't possible fit into your home).

I joined my local makerspace many years ago almost when they first formed. Back then, it was largely electronics and robotics and I wondered where an artist would fit in. Once I started understanding a couple of the machines (a CNC router and, later, a laser cutter), I thought, "Okay, I've been given the tools...how do I 'art' with these?"

So I do have some knowledge of both and I'm eager to see where libraries go with the idea of being part makerspace. Unfortunately, I don't think many of them realize all of the upkeep that goes into a makerspace, so I'm concerned that many could be doing this half-heartedly, given limited functionality and turning off new members if they can't keep up with the technology.

I suppose time will tell.
 
I am near the end of a career in librarianship, though I'm still fairly young, at 50. started out working in a museum exhibit and design company in the art department, and switched careers early, mostly for pay and benefits. Ihaf spent most of my childhood hanging around in the Knight Library at the University of Oregon, ad a crazy punk in hippyland. I hear similar things from patrons over here, too. There are reasons for most disappointing things in libraries. Here in the US, public libraries are a vital part of society, empowering individuals across classes, especially in dark times; many double as community centers.
 
Fahrenheit 451 said:
I think that the repeated message that many craft can be controlled by the mind, together with our own experience of the use of drones, suggest this as a very plausible possibility.

Very advanced machines, controlled from afar and present to perform certain tasks or monitoring. Advanced AI is very likely - even to the point that some of the occupants seem to lack a life force or soul. This was picked up by the remote viewers in the Betty and Barney Hill case.
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MercuryCrest said:
I can actually answer this, being both a library fan and a long-term member of my local makerspace.

Many libraries (at least in the States) are starting to add features that many makerspaces have. Laser cutters, 3D printers, that sort of thing. I'm on the fence about this, as I feel like those machines in particular are finicky and require significant knowledge to use properly, but I like how libraries are spreading out and finding new ways to stay relevant.

For those not in-the-know: Makerspaces are a global phenomenon. Think of most of them like a co-op, you pay a monthly fee to have access to tools and machinery (and knowledge!) that you wouldn't be able to afford on your own (or if you live in an apartment, couldn't possible fit into your home).

I joined my local makerspace many years ago almost when they first formed. Back then, it was largely electronics and robotics and I wondered where an artist would fit in. Once I started understanding a couple of the machines (a CNC router and, later, a laser cutter), I thought, "Okay, I've been given the tools...how do I 'art' with these?"

So I do have some knowledge of both and I'm eager to see where libraries go with the idea of being part makerspace. Unfortunately, I don't think many of them realize all of the upkeep that goes into a makerspace, so I'm concerned that many could be doing this half-heartedly, given limited functionality and turning off new members if they can't keep up with the technology.

I suppose time will tell.
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Yep. I used to run two 3D printers at my library, too.
 
What 3D printers did you run, if I may ask? I've found that, thus far, Prusa 3's are the only FDM's worth running nowadays.

EDIT: We had a Makerbot Replicator, but as soon as they sold out to Stratasys, it was impossible to get replacement parts and when we did get them, they were of lower quality than expected. I suspect this is a case of an established company buying out a rival, then running that brand-name into the ground.
 
When I got my first job I used to love going into the local library at lunchtimes; it was fairly big and had loads of books on all different sorts of subjects and there was never a shortage of something to interest me.

Then over the years we kinda stopped going to libraries though, so I hadn't visited one for several years until a couple of years ago when I had occasion to find somewhere to sit and wait for a while, so I chose to go into the nearby library (a different one from the one I once frequented).

To say I was disappointed would be an understatement: rather than being able to find an interesting book to read to pass the time, I instead found myself confronted with two sections; 1) children's section, and 2) the rest of the library - which might as well have been called "fiction section" - because that's all it had.

No factual books, nothing to pique my interest or cause me to learn something new. Just rows of fiction books. Oh, and a few computers, of course. What a shame.
 
As my mother became increasingly bed-ridden, I plundered the Talking Books section of my local library. I wasn't charged as a Carer but the difficulty was finding something that would appeal to both of us as we ate our Tea. Thank goodness for Terry Pratchett's Discworld and Douglas Adams. The next problem were the Library opening times, they were during working hours when working people (like me) were at Work and schoolkids were at School. Library was only open half day on Saturday when all the adults and the schoolkids tried to return books and take out new ones - pandemonium. Presumably it was the retired, the unemployed and those seeking shelter and warmth who used the facilities during the rest of the week. Then the County Council wanted to close the libraries because they were under-used.
I have now moved to within striking distance of the County Reference Library - open every first and third Saturday of the month only. Obscurity, tranquility, and as much Local History as I can digest.
 
Our library (Bradford Met') has just circulated a questionaire concerning the use of the library system and it's future direction.

My local branch (Keighley) is reduced in content. Much of the older stuff has gone. Which always struck me as a bit odd as I consider libraries to be repositories of loder information.

It's also getting harder to get hold of books they don't have in stock. Once one could get the more unusual books via the British Lending Library. But that seems to have stopped.

They do have meetings there. There was a meeting of over fifties advertised. An invite for a cup of tea and a bun. I considered attending this one, but it may cause marital conflict; Better not.

INT21.
 
Bad Bungle said:
The next problem were the Library opening times, they were during working hours when working people (like me) were at Work and schoolkids were at School. Library was only open half day on Saturday when all the adults and the schoolkids tried to return books and take out new ones - pandemonium. Presumably it was the retired, the unemployed and those seeking shelter and warmth who used the facilities during the rest of the week. Then the County Council wanted to close the libraries because they were under-used.
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Donning my skeptic beret I often wonder if things like libraries (and banks) are purposely made 'un-useful' precisely so the council can close them down under the guise of 'under-usage'. Restrict the opening times, restrict the book choice, watch the numbers dwindle, and hey presto.
 
I agree that cutting budgets and staff starts to make it look like the council see closing them as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It makes me really mad. I think they are still havens for people of all ages who want to stuff their heads with factual information and imaginary worlds. Dangerous stuff eh. Perhaps that's why our delightful government has allowed it, encouraged it, to happen. You can't have uppity working class people educating themselves for free. They might want to change things.

Before the library job I had at one time, I worked in some snobby establishment where a customer, when he heard I was leaving, implied that it was like Waterstones for poor people. No, mate. It's not just about borrowing books for free because you can't afford you own bloody library at home. It's about the freedom of being able to wander about among books about things you've never heard of before, expanding your mind, picking and trying things out - for nothing! That's civilisation isn't it. How marvellous.

It depresses me massively that they reduce the stock and put in money-making cafes, and last I heard the local manager (who looked like he'd never read a book in his life) wanted to just employ security guards not people there to know about books (cheaper innit). And so much is online these days which isn't really the best way for learning how to discriminate between reliable and crappy sources - you know where you are with an actual book, much better. But while people can wander the stacks, and small children read voraciously in corners, and homeless people snooze gently in the warm - then that's what public libraries are for, and long may it continue. I think there's still a great deal of public support for them. I hope so. I just hope this country can cling onto its dregs of civilisation and one day we'll return to some sort of better situation (disappears into ranting) - if libraries go, you can guarantee we will never get them back (in this selfish capitalist day and age, who would even suggest such a thing as a free education).

(sorry, no fortean thoughts at all on the subject - I guess that's what you're after?)
 
Liverpool Central Library is a glorious place just to wander in and look at. I don't use them myself but i would imagine their purpose remains what it ever was. In non fiction the information gleaned online is generally stuff taken from books...the books themselves, the original and complete source, is always going to be worth consulting directly for the student or the researcher. And in fiction - or indeed anything worth reading for pleasure - a physical book is probably still far preferred to e-readers by most people, so a resource for a free temporary copy of said book will always have a market. Unless of course the act of reading books at all declines sufficiently. I don't know if it has or not.

They are also of course places in which to write as much as to read...quiet calm oases for the student of anything to do their work

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gattino said:
Liverpool Central Library is a glorious place just to wander in and look at. I don't use them myself but i would imagine their purpose remains what it ever was. In non fiction the information gleaned online is generally stuff taken from books...the books themselves, the original and complete source, is always going to be worth consulting directly for the student or the researcher. And in fiction - or indeed anything worth reading for pleasure - a physical book is probably still far preferred to e-readers by most people, so a resource for a free temporary copy of said book will always have a market. Unless of course the act of reading books at all declines sufficiently. I don't know if it has or not.View attachment 18487View attachment 18488
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Wow... I would love to spend a day there! :joyf:

Personally I think the reading of books has declined. Most of the people I know nowadays don't even own any books, and seem to either read stuff online or on those kindle things. I don't know for certain though, but it's certainly the impression I get.

And it's sad; reading something online cannot compare to the physical experience of holding a book and turning its pages (or smelling a book - oh how I miss that!) and apart from anything else, if an EMP or somesuch were to wipe out all our electronics, books would be all we had left to retain our knowledge.
 
Bad Bungle said:
. The next problem were the Library opening times, they were during working hours when working people (like me) were at Work and schoolkids were at School. Library was only open half day on Saturday when all the adults and the schoolkids tried to return books and take out new ones - pandemonium..
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Our library was always open until 7 PM on weekdays. So no problems there.
I joined when I was seven year old, and have been a member ever since.

INT21.
 
Eponastill said:
...our delightful government...uppity working class people...some snobby establishment...Waterstones for poor people......homeless people snooze gently in the warm...this selfish capitalist day and age...
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Thank goodness we have a ban on politics, eh?

“The proportion of adults visiting public libraries in England has fallen by almost a third over the last decade...

The Department of Culture, Media and Sport has measured the public’s usage of libraries in England since 2005. In the 12 months to March 2016, it reported that just 33.4% of adults had used a public library, compared with 48.2% of adults in 2005/2006, when the survey began. This marks a drop of 30.7% over the decade...

The report reveals that although declines have been seen across all demographic groups over the last decade, the largest declines are for the “urban prosperity” group, down from 57.3% to 37.8%, and the “wealthy achievers” group, down from 50.9% to 33.5%.”

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ll-dramatically-over-last-decade-figures-show

Just to remind us all, here’s the graph depicting our “savage austerity”:

public-sector-expenditure-united-kingdom-uk-real-terms.jpg

maximus otter
 
Duh.... libraries are for books. Lots and lots of lovely books. We have eleven library books in our house now. I get an itchy withdrawal feeling if we don't go to the library once a month.
Of course they have lots of other services and events, but we're in it for the books.
 
Politics aside, as that's a whole other can of worms, the decline in usage is probably a self fulfilling prophecy insofar as some libraries (in the UK at least) seem to be scrambling to service the lowest common denominator with, as Zebs and others have noted, an excess of fiction and a limited selection at that.

Here in Gloucester our county reference library used to in Gloucester City Centre, above the city branch of the general library, but it was moved to a suburb, admittedly an inner suburb inside the outer ring road but a suburb nonetheless. In its new location it is a fair walk from a bus stop, has very little parking and the car parking is expensive. I don't know if visitor numbers have dropped but I would think it likely.

At the same time the city general library has been reduced to a shadow of its former self. Less stock, more generic. With two bookstores in spitting distance from it. I used always to check if a book I was thinking of buying was available in the library - I would often end up buying a copy anyway but I got to try before I bought via the library. At the same time I would often find a different book that was useful or interesting. The last time I visited that city centre branch, which I walk past almost every day, was years ago in which visit I was so disappointed by the "selection" that I have not bothered to go in again (I still visit my local branch).

In short it is hardly surprising if there's been a decline in usage but that doesn't mean that people don't miss having a good library service.
 
And. of course, modern youth gets it's info from other sources. And it will be more up to date.

The written word can't keep up with modern technological advancement. Sad but true.

But I still prefer reference books to using the web. Much easier to search through.

INT21.
 
Our local library keeps a stock of local authority recycling bags that can be picked up if you run out at home. It’s about the only time we go in there.
 
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