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Nowadays What Are Libraries For?

Trevp666 said:
There is also OITL which is 'Only in this library', whereby the books etc are arranged according to something other than the usual systems. Such as by colour. Or size.
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Actually we do have one of those here too. But it has some messed up origins. We have a map librarian who made her own system for the maps. Most were government maps. After that had been in place for 20 years or so, we got an aggressive government librarian who insisted that the maps be done according to the G-Doc system. The map librarian didn't like the G-Doc librarian and refused to give in or change. Both had their student assistants sent to steal new maps from the other one to put in their system. We now have a map system that consists of:

- the homegrown system maps
- G-Doc maps
- items that have records in both the homegrown system and G-Docs
- Items that were stolen from the other person that have no records anywhere because they got squirreled away.

Fortunately, the students who use maps at my university send all their students to a private institution for their map needs, ignoring what we have, so the situation is not one we have to fix with all the other things that go on that demand attention.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
That's exactly what I was told - 'Try Amazon!' :)
Welcome to the brave new world. LOL
My feeling is that we are being herded towards 'kindle' and the like.
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It is a great way of restricting choice while giving the appearance of giving more choice and empowering the user.

Consider: I want X's book on Roswell.
We haven't got it, you can have this one sponsored by YY&Y or this one which was the most popular with other users.

This is essentially how Google answers questions and it seems now the way some libraries are offering books. There is an illusion of choice which seems to fool a lot of people.

Some years back we needed a new freezer, the old one had green doors but all the new ones from all the manufacturers, unless you paid silly money, were grey; with one or two in white.
When the guy delivered it he told me; "These grey ones are very popular." "Of course they are;" I told him, "There's ***** all choice. There are about ten companies making them all in the same colour." He seemed genuinely surprised.

You have access to a library with lots of books, lots of choice, but if you want something specific you can't have it; you either buy it or if it's out of print hope you can find a second hand copy. It doesn't matter with freezers but with books that person's ideas are now gone, but the sponsored or popular ones are available.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about it but it strikes me as a dangerous path for the sake of saving a few pennies.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
That's exactly what I was told - 'Try Amazon!' :)
Welcome to the brave new world. LOL
My feeling is that we are being herded towards 'kindle' and the like.
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How strange. In our town the librarian searches other libraries to find the book and if it exists but is checked out puts you on a list to get it when it is checked back in.
 
Tunn11 said:
It is a great way of restricting choice while giving the appearance of giving more choice and empowering the user.

Consider: I want X's book on Roswell.
We haven't got it, you can have this one sponsored by YY&Y or this one which was the most popular with other users.

This is essentially how Google answers questions and it seems now the way some libraries are offering books. There is an illusion of choice which seems to fool a lot of people.

Some years back we needed a new freezer, the old one had green doors but all the new ones from all the manufacturers, unless you paid silly money, were grey; with one or two in white.
When the guy delivered it he told me; "These grey ones are very popular." "Of course they are;" I told him, "There's ***** all choice. There are about ten companies making them all in the same colour." He seemed genuinely surprised.

You have access to a library with lots of books, lots of choice, but if you want something specific you can't have it; you either buy it or if it's out of print hope you can find a second hand copy. It doesn't matter with freezers but with books that person's ideas are now gone, but the sponsored or popular ones are available.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about it but it strikes me as a dangerous path for the sake of saving a few pennies.
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I agree, and it's not paranoia, it is opening one's eyes to what is going on.
I always say we are being controlled and manipulated, not just in our choices, but by 'the media' (for lack of a better word) in what is chosen for us to see and know and be aware of.
The more their articles and photos are in front of our eyes, we become used to whatever information that is, and we slowly become so used to it that it is what we come to expect.
It is always said that 'knowledge is power', but whose knowledge is being fed to us?
I do not believe that we know the whole truth, for instance, about the 'Ukraine war'. In my neighborhood, some of the slovak people are telling me things that I never read or hear from the media, about what is actually occurring in that part of the world.
And you're absolutely correct about these libraries - the last dozen or so books are 'not available'. So where is it they all went to?
Could it be that they do not agree with mainstream ideas, so are suddenly gone.
Something to think about.
 
Tunn11 said:
I'm glad it helped, it seems only fair given the effort and artistry involved in writing a book.

My experience of PLR was very limited mainly conversations with booksellers. Some best selling authors allegedly were dismissive as there was an upper cap on payments which "didn't reflect the real value they should have from library loans".

One new author for whom we hosted a publicity event (sales, signing, etc.) for virtually nothing as she was local, was not happy as she was below the threshold of loans for payment.
"I won't get anything from the loans from the copies you've bought." (O.K. but if we don't buy any you certainly won't will you?)

Most booksellers felt that they made a number of sales because people had "discovered" an author in the library. They probably would not have bought the book otherwise.

I remember attending a talk by one of the Foyles who said that he was amazed how people would complain about paying (at the time) £5.00 for a book that had taken years of the author's life to write and yet would happily pay £2.00 for a birthday card that looked as if it had taken ten minutes to put together and would be in the waste bin next week.

I'm not sure how the abolition of the NBA affected authors. I was told, again by a bookseller, that at least one publisher had asked authors to take a cut in their payments because of it. The answer I gather was a longer version of "No".
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But most authors start out 'below the threshold for payment'. In the same way as most authors start out making very very little out of their writing. You have to be in it for the long haul and have a big backlist before you start to see any real money (this is in most cases, there are one or two - JK Rowling etc - who make it big with their first book, but most people earning a living from writing are plodding along in the slow lane getting a bit from each book. The advice is - never write a book with the expectation of making any money.

I've got a back list of 25 books, three of them are national award winners. I still work in the Co Op because I can't make a living out of writing books. (I'd be able to give up work if I was in a couple and there was a second wage coming in. Almost all 'full time writers' have a back up wage into the house which means the mortgage is covered if their current book tanks).
 
catseye said:
But most authors start out 'below the threshold for payment'. In the same way as most authors start out making very very little out of their writing. You have to be in it for the long haul and have a big backlist before you start to see any real money (this is in most cases, there are one or two - JK Rowling etc - who make it big with their first book, but most people earning a living from writing are plodding along in the slow lane getting a bit from each book. The advice is - never write a book with the expectation of making any money.

I've got a back list of 25 books, three of them are national award winners. I still work in the Co Op because I can't make a living out of writing books. (I'd be able to give up work if I was in a couple and there was a second wage coming in. Almost all 'full time writers' have a back up wage into the house which means the mortgage is covered if their current book tanks).
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I'm intrigued and would like to read some of your books (if I haven't already) Can you, are you allowed to, are you willing to let us know what you've written; on the forum or with a private message?

I suppose the arts generally are not the way to make money unless you are very lucky ( I was going to say good but I think lucky may be more accurate) Given how much books mean to so many people it seems very unfair compared to silly money paid to people who run fast or kick balls around. I imagine that like most art it is something you almost have to do.
 
Tunn11 said:
I'm intrigued and would like to read some of your books (if I haven't already) Can you, are you allowed to, are you willing to let us know what you've written; on the forum or with a private message?

I suppose the arts generally are not the way to make money unless you are very lucky ( I was going to say good but I think lucky may be more accurate) Given how much books mean to so many people it seems very unfair compared to silly money paid to people who run fast or kick balls around. I imagine that like most art it is something you almost have to do.
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I'll DM you, Tunn. But I warn you, my books are romance/women's fiction, so if that's not your thing, stay away.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
I was just at our local library visiting, and requested several books, but they are not available in the system.
So I have to purchase them myself, getting more and more difficult to find some books, seems they are printing less.
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I don't understand. Did you request an interlibrary loan, and then the librarian turned down your request?
 
Endlessly Amazed said:
I don't understand. Did you request an interlibrary loan, and then the librarian turned down your request?
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My only guess would be that volunteer librarians don't understand how to do this? Because any book can be borrowed from any library - it just has to be sent across, but volunteers might not know about this system.
 
catseye said:
My only guess would be that volunteer librarians don't understand how to do this? Because any book can be borrowed from any library - it just has to be sent across, but volunteers might not know about this system.
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I agree (I think). In the US, in every public library I have been in, only the actual, trained librarians are to answer patrons' questions. These are paid staff members. The volunteers are not to answer these types of questions, because as you point out, they do not know enough to respond in a helpful way. The volunteers or non-librarian staff are not supposed to answer.
 
This is what has broken down in the UK. There used to be regional bureaux which coordinated member's catalogues (pre computer for most) encouraged cooperative buying and retention and enabled loans between members.

The ability to put catalogues on line paradoxically eroded this (Why pay the bureau when you could arrange it yourselves?) but the cooperative buying became a casualty of cuts and there was no cheap "postal" system between authorities.

I'm out of touch with what happens now, I guess if you ask for something in a Devon Library that's only in stock in Brighton they may get it at cost (The act allows charging for these services) or just tell you where you can get it. More likely they'll buy copy if its cheap or available or tell you where to go to find it. British Library is still available if all else fails. Not sure of systems in the US

Library assistants shouldn't just be telling you "We haven't got it." It should be passed to professional or senior staff - but again cuts mean fewer of these and the downward spiral begins. Service not as good so people stop using it so it receives less funding so it isn't as good...
 
If you've never been to it, check out Worldcat, which is a library resource that shows what is available in libraries worldwide. It doesn't mean you can request it all through interlibrary loan, but it will help show what exists and in how many numbers:

https://www.worldcat.org/

Please note that it doesn't show 100% of what exists in libraries, but just the partifipating libraries.
 
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catseye said:
There are moves afoot to get author payments from books sold second hand (through charity shops, etc), but I'm not sure how that's going to work, unless every charity shop has computer access. There would also need to be cross-checks, as many of the books sold second hand are by deceased authors whose agents collect their payments and distribute accordingly - and how would a charity shop be able to sort the paperwork? I think it would probably run like ALCS, where there's just a lump sum which is distributed to authors according to how many books they have out..

PLR's job isn't to help new authors though. It's the Public Lending Right - so if your book is publically lent, you have a right to some money. For many many years my PLR payment was double or triple my royalty figure.
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It would be nigh on impossible through charity shops, but online sales through large sites - Amazon, Ebay, Abe etc ought to be forced to give something to authors.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
I agree, and it's not paranoia, it is opening one's eyes to what is going on.
I always say we are being controlled and manipulated, not just in our choices, but by 'the media' (for lack of a better word) in what is chosen for us to see and know and be aware of.
The more their articles and photos are in front of our eyes, we become used to whatever information that is, and we slowly become so used to it that it is what we come to expect.
It is always said that 'knowledge is power', but whose knowledge is being fed to us?
I do not believe that we know the whole truth, for instance, about the 'Ukraine war'. In my neighborhood, some of the slovak people are telling me things that I never read or hear from the media, about what is actually occurring in that part of the world.
And you're absolutely correct about these libraries - the last dozen or so books are 'not available'. So where is it they all went to?
Could it be that they do not agree with mainstream ideas, so are suddenly gone.
Something to think about.
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What are the Slovaks telling you? What do you think you are going to learn from these books?

Books get lost all the time, a library nearish to me had a flood two years ago and it damaged much of the stock they kept in the "stacks" - the older, more, obscure stuff that is held there and lent on request as there isn't enough space on the regular library shelves and much of it is very niche interest anyway. They are still sorting through what was saved.
 
People seem to order books from Amazon which I believe why book stores have disappeared.

The last remaining book store in my town serves coffee and food, so is it a restaurant ?
 
So recently I needed some good quality scans of some documents to be sent over to a potential employer - as a matter of some urgency.

I didn't know anybody who had a scanner, or at least one that was fgit for my purpose. So I went to a library. The library was in a town that I was not a resident of but they made out a day card for me so that I could use their services. They showed me how to use the scanner - and I got good quality scans of my documents downloaded onto a menory stick in about ten minutes. This was on a Saturday afternoon - and all completely free of charge.

On similar lines - I had a stack of UK fifty pound notes of a type that have ceased to be legal tender while I've been out of the country. I went from bank to bank to get them changed but they all didn't want to know as I was not a member of their bank (my own bank had been shut down in the town in question). However, one of them did direct me to the Post Office.

So I took myself to the Post Office and there they gladly relieved me of the old fifty p;ound notes and put the equivalent money stright intio my bank account via my debit card. It all took about five minutes - and again there was no charge for this service.

Long live libraries and Post Offices!
 
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charliebrown said:
People seem to order books from Amazon which I believe why book stores have disappeared.

The last remaining book store in my town serves coffee and food, so is it a restaurant ?
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Not for me; I think their main purpose is to sell books and magazines.
 
Bookshops in towns are just 'holding places' for the shop unit until they get replaced by either charity shops or coffee shops.
 
Some friendships I have for more than 40 years were people that I met in bookshops or record stores. Bookstores are the home of the unexpected (be it on paper or humankind).

I'm not sure you would be able to make friends on or because online shops. Or eBay. Or even OnlyFans. Good luck in finding the unexpected in a jungle of algorithms.

In other hand, supporting blogs and fanzines in the 2020s can lead to interest encounters, even incorporeal (in cyberspace, in opposition to the meatspace, I mean)...
 
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