O. J. Simpson Question (yes, it's on-topic here)

[OldTimeRadio]

This is something I've never seen mentioned in connection with the O. J. Simpson case, although I've personally wondered about it from the start:

Could the "knocks" or "rappings" which Kato Kaelin heard on his cabana wall within minutes after the double-murders have been one of the best-known and best-attested of all paranormal phenomena - the "Death Knock"?

If so, Kato Kaelin would certainly have been the right person in the right place to hear them.

But funny as heck nobody's mentioned this before me.

 

[colpepper1]

You may have to fill in a little detail for the UK reader.

 

[henry]

yeah can you point us at a good reliable source for the oj case...

 

[eris1369]

found this:

The O.J. Simpson trial made a young man by the name of Kato Kaelin a household name. When Kaelin testified, it was as if he was putting on a show for those assembled in the courtroom. Kaelin was a house guest of Simpson's the night of the murders, and he said that he had heard knocks on the wall at about the same time Allan Park saw Simpson returning home.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1205107

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Kato Kaelin was a hopeful young actor/celebrity wannabe who lived with the Simpsons when they still shared the same roof. They both seem to have been very fond of their houseguest and he of them.

When O. J. moved out he thought it was improper for the unmarried Kaelin to continue staying in the house with his wife, so he invited Kaelin to move to his new property. (However, Kaelin seems to have maintained his close friendship with Nicole Simpson and the kids.)

Around the hour of the murders Kaelin heard very loud "thumps" on his cabana wall.

Almost from the start I wondered if these might be traditional "death knocks," but nobody seems to have mentioned this other than me.

As I said earlier, Kaelin would have been the right person in the right place to experience "death knocks."

An hour or so after the murders (but long before they were discovered) Simpson left his house for what he claimed was the very first time that fateful day. He stopped by Kaelin's cabana and asked him if he wanted to go out to supper. They ate at McDonalds.

The State utterly failed to prove that Simpson had been out of his house earlier that day, which was the main reason for the acquital.

 

[volfie]

This is something I've never seen mentioned in connection with the O. J. Simpson case, although I've personally wondered about it from the start:

Could the "knocks" or "rappings" which Kato Kaelin heard on his cabana wall within minutes after the double-murders have been one of the best-known and best-attested of all paranormal phenomena - the "Death Knock"?

The noises Kato heard were made by whomever hid the murder glove on the pathway between the property line fence and side of his cottage. In fact, IIRC, it was deteremined it was someone banging into his wall A/C unit in the dark.

Sorry, but there's nothing more mysterious to this than why someone would kill two people for no reason.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

The noises Kato heard were made by whomever hid the murder glove on the pathway between the property line fence and side of his cottage. In fact, IIRC, it was deteremined it was someone banging into his wall A/C unit in the dark.

Sorry, but there's nothing more mysterious to this than why someone would kill two people for no reason.

This is assuming that if the murderer was indeed O. J. Simpson he tripped over an airconditioning unit on his own property. And this was a man accustomed to running down football fields and successfully avoiding obstacles!

And the glove, which as I recall, didn't fit, smelled to the high heavens like a frame-up.

I'm NOT insisting on my "death knock" explanation but merely pointing out that it has the benefit of making sense when other theories don't.

 

[volfie]

And the glove, which as I recall, didn't fit, smelled to the high heavens like a frame-up.

The glove didn't fit because:

- the glove was caked and stiff with dried blood
- OJ wore a latex glove on his hand and tried (not too hard) to put the stiff, shrunken glove on top of THAT. The lining of the murder glove put up substantional resistance against the latex glove.
- he had stopped taking his arthritis meds a few days before the glove was presented for fitting so his hands were unusually swollen


The only thing that smells, besides OJ, was the jury who let a multiple murderer go free.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

The only thing that smells, besides OJ, was the jury who let a multiple murderer go free.

Look, I don't know whether O. J. Simpson was guilty or not. Simpson was never any sort of hero to me. (I'm an American Rounders fan and Football can go hang.)

But if any jury "smells" because it refuses to convict on the bad dreams and barking dogs "evidence" presented in the Simpson case, THANK GOD FOR ITS STINK. The "stench" was actually the odor of the parchment of the United States Constitution.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Simpson's actual guilt or innocence.

 

[volfie]

The only thing that smells, besides OJ, was the jury who let a multiple murderer go free.

Look, I don't know whether O. J. Simpson was guilty or not. Simpson was never any sort of hero to me. (I'm an American Rounders fan and Football can go hang.)

But if any jury "smells" because it refuses to convict on the bad dreams and barking dogs "evidence" presented in the Simpson case, THANK GOD FOR ITS STINK. The "stench" was actually the odor of the parchment of the United States Constitution.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Simpson's actual guilt or innocence.

So the DNA matches that came in at 50-million-to-one and all the previous evidence of phsical abuse should be discarded because a dog barked? Oh, and those "ugly-ass shoes" that he said he never wore? It was a lie. There are photos of him wearing them in the exact same sytle and size as the bloody footprints found at the scene.

Very few murders have witnesses but the physical evidence in this murder was overwelming. Several jury members, however, are on record as saying they could not have continued to live in their neighborhoods if they convicted OJ. Does that sound like they considered they evidence?

And I grew up in Buffalo, NY, during "The Juice" era. I've seen him play and I've seen his name on the Hall of Fame at Rich Stadium. I also watched all nine months of the trial.

He did it. Beyond a doubt.

 

[crunchy5]

He did it. Beyond a doubt.

I have my doubts, I watched a fair bit of the trial and I thought the police fu*ked up their investigation hugely, Kato was a strange player and the meth connection could have been more thoroughly investigated.

 

[JackDark]

Er, sorry for my ignorance but what are 'death knocks' :?:

 

[pintquaff]

OOOOooook then, swiftly back on topic. As the OP mentions "death Knocks" are said to be a portent of a death to a friend or family member, similar i suppose as the cry of the banshee as heared in some folklore stories. An intresting idea and one worth discussing with a neutral head on.

 

[JackDark]

OOOOooook then, swiftly back on topic. As the OP mentions "death Knocks" are said to be a portent of a death to a friend or family member, similar i suppose as the cry of the banshee as heared in some folklore stories. An intresting idea and one worth discussing with a neutral head on.

Oh how grim. Being the eternal pessimist that I am, I 'm now going to be checking my my dear old live in Granny, every time I hear the slightest noise.
:?

Anyway, any more info on this?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

As the OP mentions "death Knocks" are said to be a portent of a death to a friend or family member, similar i suppose as the cry of the banshee as heared in some folklore stories.

Except that "death knocks" tend to be heard immediately following a death, and sometimes during the death agonies, but rarely in advance.

They've been experienced enough over the centuries, and attested to by solid witnesses, that I tend to take their existence as established.

 

[tilly50]

Do death knocks occur close to the scene of death or are they heard by the nearest and dearest however distant they might be physically?

Are death knocks associated with an un-natural death (murder) or do they happen when death occurs due to natural causes?

 

[pintquaff]

As the OP mentions "death Knocks" are said to be a portent of a death to a friend or family member, similar i suppose as the cry of the banshee as heared in some folklore stories.

Except that "death knocks" tend to be heard immediately following a death, and sometimes during the death agonies, but rarely in advance.

They've been experienced enough over the centuries, and attested to by solid witnesses, that I tend to take their existence as established.

Ooops! Go it wrong again! :cry:

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Do death knocks occur close to the scene of death or are they heard by the nearest and dearest however distant they might be physically?

Both, so far as I know. But in the Simpson case Kato Kaelin's near-proximity to the murder scene might have entered into the equasion.

Are death knocks associated with an un-natural death (murder) or do they happen when death occurs due to natural causes?

Again, it appears to be both. But might the unexpectedness of sudden death by murder coupled with a resultant spiritual rage (assuming some sort of survival), in this case involving two victims, amplify the phenomenon?

 

[Vardoger]

On request from OldTimeRadio I'm posting what I wrote about my own experience with Death Knocks in another thread:

My list is this:

1. Hearing three hard knocks in my appartment. This happened 2-3 weeks after one of my uncles died.

And that's all really.

It was too loud to come from the neighbours and it was definetly not from the main door, even though I checked it just in case. Perhaps it got a rational explanation, but who knows?

 

[fin66]

On request from OldTimeRadio I'm posting what I wrote about my own experience with Death Knocks in another thread:

My list is this:

1. Hearing three hard knocks in my appartment. This happened 2-3 weeks after one of my uncles died.

And that's all really.

It was too loud to come from the neighbours and it was definetly not from the main door, even though I checked it just in case. Perhaps it got a rational explanation, but who knows?

I believe in the Knocks!! My aunt and godmother died of cancer after a long hard fight. I new she was dying. I new she was going to die. I wanted her to go near the end. When she died it was just on the stroke of midnight. I was living in Wales and she was in Dublin. I heard the knock three times right above my head on the headboard of my bed. I sat up woke my wife and told her that my aunt was dead. My mother phoned next morning and told me that my aunt had died at the stroke of twelve. by the way I new it was twelve because I lay in bed reading and just looked at the bedside clock to check the time. just after that only moments the knocks came.

 

[colpepper1]

Death knocks seem popular in our family too, or more correctly, bangs on glass. My mother was most exercised by loud raps on glass windows and clock faces cracking and stopping at the appropriate time were also common. Bird strike may be part of the answer and there's some folklore attached to this, or even heat from the hearth but my mother's family reported very loud bangs similar to poltergeist phenomena going back through the demise of various aunts, great-aunts, grandmothers, etc, all on her side.

It was an accepted part of a relative's death as far as I can tell.

 

[synchronicity]

Interesting idea, OTR. I suppose anything is possible (as a good fortean I have to say that :lol: ) but in this case, I think it was OJ running in the dark and in a frenzy banging smack into Kato's air conditioning unit. Near where he dropped the bloody glove.

OJ was guilty as homemade sin, and I hope he is haunted to his dying day by the faces of Nicole and Ron Goldman.

Is he still scouring golf courses in his search for the real killers?!? 8)

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....running in the dark....

Wasn't it daylight?

 

[lkb3rd]

The only thing that smells, besides OJ, was the jury who let a multiple murderer go free.

Look, I don't know whether O. J. Simpson was guilty or not. Simpson was never any sort of hero to me. (I'm an American Rounders fan and Football can go hang.)

But if any jury "smells" because it refuses to convict on the bad dreams and barking dogs "evidence" presented in the Simpson case, THANK GOD FOR ITS STINK. The "stench" was actually the odor of the parchment of the United States Constitution.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Simpson's actual guilt or innocence.

The blood and footprint evidence, including footprintsa found at the scene matching O.J.(in blood), and Nicole's blood found in and on his car was nearly irrefutable.

 

[volfie]

Death knocks seem popular in our family too, or more correctly, bangs on glass. My mother was most exercised by loud raps on glass windows and clock faces cracking and stopping at the appropriate time were also common. Bird strike may be part of the answer and there's some folklore attached to this, or even heat from the hearth but my mother's family reported very loud bangs similar to poltergeist phenomena going back through the demise of various aunts, great-aunts, grandmothers, etc, all on her side.

It was an accepted part of a relative's death as far as I can tell.

On the day of my grandfather's funeral, I was driving my grandmother someplace when there was clearly the sound of several loud raps on the ROOF OF THE MOVING CAR. I even pulled over and got out to look on the roof with the improbable thought that maybe someone was actually clinging to the roof of the car for some reason. But of course there wasn't.

We didn't talk much about it. What was there to say?

 

[volfie]

....running in the dark....

Wasn't it daylight?

No, evening. That's why OJ's alibi "I was chipping golf balls..." was so laughable. He would have been doing it in the dark.

And to the person who mentioned that Kato was near the murder scene: no, he was home at OJ's place. Unless he was a co-murderer, he wasn't near the scene of the crime.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....running in the dark....

Wasn't it daylight?

No, evening. That's why OJ's alibi "I was chipping golf balls..." was so laughable. He would have been doing it in the dark.

At my late parents' old country club the golfing addicts play the links at night, tracking the balls with flashlights and (when it's available) bright moonlight. How does this differ?

And to the person who mentioned that Kato was near the murder scene: no, he was home at OJ's place. Unless he was a co-murderer, he wasn't near the scene of the crime.

That was probably me. What I intended was that the two HOUSES are within very easy walking distance of each other. By my definition, that places Kato "near" the murder scene.

 

[Human_84]

Not to beat a dead horse but has anyone ever wondered what the kids might have heard upstairs? Justin and Sydney were 5 and 8 years old and it was summer break, around 10pm at the time of the murders when they'd gotten ice cream around 8:15pm, so I'm betting they weren't yet asleep. All the years spent poring over material and I haven't run across so much as a single mention that the kids were asked by police but heard nothing.