Oak Island Money Pit

[eziofan]

I have been wondering what might happen if the history turns out to be a bit more embarrassing than first thought? For example, in no particular order, here are some of the artifacts found outside of the money pit area:-

Mi'kmaq pottery
Gunshot
Farming equipment.

One of the things that worries me are the finds they are not showing. The key one for me is the lack of clay pipe. Clay pipe is excellent for dating purposes as the bore size and bowl can normally be dated within 10/20 years. The island is probably littered with them but they are not being acknowledged.

 

[Reverend D]

The Lagina brothers

Bet they never had any embarrassing nicknames at school.

 

[Min Bannister]

As an amateur archaeologist I am more than a little suspicious of the lack of clay pipes recovered during the digging. the recent 'archaeological dig' at a supposed pine tar kiln being a case in point. The programme has not mentioned any such finds. The problem may be that these can be dated very precisely and are extremely useful for dating purposes. Unless, of course, the dates don't fit your hypothesis....

I have just been listening to an interview with Laird Niven on the Diggin Oak Island podcast and he mentions clay pipes. He does find lots of them and would like to get some analysed for DNA as some may have belonged to Samuel Ball. I guess they just don't mention it on the show.

 

[eziofan]

I have just been listening to an interview with Laird Niven on the Diggin Oak Island podcast and he mentions clay pipes. He does find lots of them and would like to get some analysed for DNA as some may have belonged to Samuel Ball. I guess they just don't mention it on the show.

My latest beef is that they have been gushing over a supposed Roman lead 'barter token' found by metal detectorist Gary Drayton. Even brought in a coin expert to verify it. Any metal detectorist worth his salt would tell you its a child's toy known as a whirligig. Have a look at the images below! The one on the left is the one found by Gary Drayton, the one on the right is a post medieval example from the UK Portable Antiquites Scheme. I detect some dishonesty here!

 

[PeteS]

My latest beef is that they have been gushing over a supposed Roman lead 'barter token' found by metal detectorist Gary Drayton. Even brought in a coin expert to verify it. Any metal detectorist worth his salt would tell you its a child's toy known as a whirligig. Have a look at the images below! The one on the left is the one found by Gary Drayton, the one on the right is a post medieval example from the UK Portable Antiquites Scheme. I detect some dishonesty here!

Couldn't have been much of a coin "expert" then. I don't watch it anymore. Too many so called experts come on and achieve nothing.

 

[Min Bannister]

My latest beef is that they have been gushing over a supposed Roman lead 'barter token' found by metal detectorist Gary Drayton. Even brought in a coin expert to verify it. Any metal detectorist worth his salt would tell you its a child's toy known as a whirligig. Have a look at the images below! The one on the left is the one found by Gary Drayton, the one on the right is a post medieval example from the UK Portable Antiquites Scheme. I detect some dishonesty here!

It seems impossible that he would not have recognised this. It reminds me of the military swagger stick topper/lipstick case a couple of years ago. I wonder if it is about generating internet traffic? No-one would talk about a childs toy or a lipstick case but a lot of people would leap to correct a mistaken identification.

 

[Sid]

It seems impossible that he would not have recognised this. It reminds me of the military swagger stick topper/lipstick case a couple of years ago. I wonder if it is about generating internet traffic? No-one would talk about a childs toy or a lipstick case but a lot of people would leap to correct a mistaken identification.

Though if it's thought to be a whirligig, doesn't a whirligig need two holes?

 

[eziofan]

Though if it's thought to be a whirligig, doesn't a whirligig needs two holes?

Strangely, that is the only photo where it is shown with only one hole. Every other time it is shown it has 2 holes.

 

[Min Bannister]

Though if it's thought to be a whirligig, doesn't a whirligig needs two holes?

It looks like it has two holes to me. Just that the one on the right has a little bit of dirt in it or something.

 

[eziofan]

It looks like it has two holes to me. Just that the one on the right has a little bit of dirt in it or something.

That's what I thought although normally you wouldn't take a photo of a find before cleaning.

 

[Sid]

It looks like it has two holes to me. Just that the one on the right has a little bit of dirt in it or something.

If it was a very important find then I could well understand that a find would not be cleaned up in the normal way, until getting it into the hands of someone who undertakes careful cleaning. (i.e.museum)
If it really is just a bit of 'mud-in-the-hole,' then it's a pretty poor way of photographing a find for others to see and validate!

 

[Min Bannister]

If it was a very important find then I could well understand that a find would not be cleaned up in the normal way, until getting it into the hands of someone who undertakes careful cleaning. (i.e.museum)
If it really is just a bit of 'mud-in-the-hole,' then it's a pretty poor way of photographing a find for others to see and validate!

I guess so. I know that Gary Drayton often mentions the importance of not cleaning things too much but I don't know how much is too much. Maybe not quite enough to see it properly.

 

[Bad Bungle]

A one hole whirligig is usually a pastry-cutter

 

[Sid]

A one hole whirligig is usually a pastry-cutter

Of course, if it was a supposed Roman lead 'barter token' found by metal detectorist Gary Drayton, then a single hole for a neck strap would make perfect sense!

 

[kesavaross]

Off course, if it was a supposed Roman lead 'barter token' found by metal detectorist Gary Drayton, then a single hole for a neck strap would make perfect sense!

Also, would a whirligig be made out of lead? I would have thought the weight would snap the strings.

 

[Sid]

Also, would a whirligig be made out of lead? I would have thought the weight would snap the strings.

True. The ones I remember we used as kids, were of cardboard, and coloured up to show whirly rainbow colours as it spun and 'hummed' round.

 

[eziofan]

Also, would a whirligig be made out of lead? I would have thought the weight would snap the strings.

Here is one from the Portable Antiquities Scheme made from lead/lead alloy. You have to remember these are not large items so the weight is minimal.

 

[Min Bannister]

I had a look at some Roman barter tokens and while most did have a single hole, I didn't find any with the same nibbly* edge as the Oak Island artifact. Although admittedly the ones that get themselves photographed online are in very good condition. Does anyone know of a token that resembles a whirligig?

*stop me if I'm getting too technical..

 

[Sid]

I had a look at some Roman barter tokens and while most did have a single hole, I didn't find any with the same nibbly* edge as the Oak Island artifact. Although admittedly the ones that get themselves photographed online are in very good condition. Does anyone know of a token that resembles a whirligig?

*stop me if I'm getting too technical..

Actually 'Min,' I covered the exact same ground that you did just after posting on here yesterday, to look at other examples to see if I could get something of a match. Very few had a toothy edge that I came across. However, if, as is thought (my thought) it is a barter token, then I'm wondering if these nibbles along the edge were a way of actually marking the token? No Idea, but it seems to be a logical assumption?
Especially as the nicks along the edge seem to be, (had been) pretty regular 'V' marks!
Afterall, what would be the point in marking along the edges like this - on a whirligig?
[Correction. . . 'on a barter token!']

 

[eziofan]

Actually 'Min,' I covered the exact same ground that you did just after posting on here yesterday, to look at other examples to see if I could get something of a match. Very few had a toothy edge that I came across. However, if, as is thought (my thought) it is a barter token, then I'm wondering if these nibbles along the edge were a way of actually marking the token? No Idea, but it seems to be a logical assumption?
Especially as the nicks along the edge seem to be, (had been) pretty regular 'V' marks!
Afterall, what would be the point in making those marks along the edges like this - on a whirligig?

The serrated edge makes the toy buzz as it spins

 

[Sid]

The serrated edge makes the toy buzz as it spins

Also known as an 'iynx.' Linked to the sound of the wryneck (bird) also, used as a kind of device for drawing out your inner energy apparently. Also used as a device for shaman.
Goes a long way back, and also has links to a page on here that I remember well, which was about the marks of wheels found embedded in stone in a mine. (one from 'Min Bannister' I believe)

 

[DrPaulLee]

Is it me or did they try and link the coin/token and the cross simply because they're of very similar composition. I thought they were 1000 years apart?

Call me cynical but it's funny how intriguing stuff is escalating now that the series finale is approaching? I know that Dumas had apparently been having problems with permits but it's odd timing.

And what happened to the muon detectors? When do we get those results?

 

[eziofan]

Here is a good one! Caught a glimpse of metallurgist Emma Culligan at her desk. I was drawn to a book that was on her desk with the title clearly visable on the spine. The book was De Re Metallica. Now this book was the textbook of mining for approx 150 years from the 1550s to the early 1700s.
Is Emma giving us a subtle clue as to what she thinks the Oak Island mystery is all about? I wonder......

 

[Sharon Hill]

Here is a good one! Caught a glimpse of metallurgist Emma Culligan at her desk. I was drawn to a book that was on her desk with the title clearly visable on the spine. The book was De Re Metallica. Now this book was the textbook of mining for approx 150 years from the 1550s to the early 1700s.
Is Emma giving us a subtle clue as to what she thinks the Oak Island mystery is all about? I wonder......View attachment 66910

Possibly. There are plenty of illustrations in there showing shafts and tunnels to depict various means of extraction.

 

[DrPaulLee]

I'm amazed at the missed opportunities. A few years back they found an absolutely enormous board of wood in the swamp. They had to leave it (maybe end of season?) and they never got back to it.
The Garden Shaft has been there for years. All of a sudden there was a nice area surrounded by a rockery with no explanation. They paid it no attention.
And that amazing discovery of the tunnel this year. They should have extended it as far as they could in both directions. Instead we are shown graphics saying that it could extend to the garden shaft...
And that excavation with a huge shaft borer that led to a subsidence...never mentioned again. Where was that in relation to all the other work?

All very scattergun archaeology.

 

[Sharon Hill]

I'm amazed at the missed opportunities. A few years back they found an absolutely enormous board of wood in the swamp. They had to leave it (maybe end of season?) and they never got back to it.
The Garden Shaft has been there for years. All of a sudden there was a nice area surrounded by a rockery with no explanation. They paid it no attention.
And that amazing discovery of the tunnel this year. They should have extended it as far as they could in both directions. Instead we are shown graphics saying that it could extend to the garden shaft...
And that excavation with a huge shaft borer that led to a subsidence...never mentioned again. Where was that in relation to all the other work?

All very scattergun archaeology.

I don't think anyone is calling it archaeology. It's A TV SHOW. Science isn't done via TV shows.

 

[DrPaulLee]

You're right.
But they have an archaeologist on site who I thought would have guided the process more.
And they don't count on some viewers having long memories.

Btw please try not to be so patronising.

 

[Sharon Hill]

You're right.
But they have an archaeologist on site who I thought would have guided the process more.
And they don't count on some viewers having long memories.

Btw please try not to be so patronising.

A good bit of some of these threads connected to TV shows consist of some posters being incredibly naive about how TV shows are made - thinking this stuff is factual. It's depressing. To even suggest that these type of shows, even if they have scientists on them, are factual and reasonable, is a leap too far.

 

[DrPaulLee]

Yes I know all that. And I know how TV shows work.
Argue with yourself. I thought there'd be an interesting discussion about lost opportunities.

 

[gordonrutter]

Can we get back to polite discussion before this resorts into something no one wants.

I'm a bit behind on my viewing of the current series so not sure exactly where they are up to at the moment but I do hope at some point there is a genuine and realistic book written about all that has happened through the auspices of the Lagina brothers and Co.