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Oannes/Nommo Visit

Gemaki

Gemaki

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
473
Hello all, I am new and this is my first post. I put it here, although it could be in 4 or 5 other places! I was wondering if anyone else knew of the Babylonian account of Oannes, spiritual guides who came here to help us. There are two other accounts of these same Instructors, the Dogon claim their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos... and the 'Oe', who came out of the Red Sea after landing in and egg-shaped craft... recorded by historians in Constantinople. All three accounts speak of amphibious beings, who came out of the sky to save our race. They were half-fish, half-man, and had the skin of a fish. He/they taught during the day, and returned to the water at night. They 'divided their body among men, to feed them' ... and it was said that the universe had 'drunk of his body'. Sound familar? The being was crucified and resurrected, and will return in human form someday. I am SO fascinated with this, that three different civilizations could have the same account of these visitations! And isn't the fish a sign of Jesus? I wonder, I wonder.....

(my information is taken from Mysteries of the Unexplained)
 
Regarding the Dogon tribe, what is said about them and their beliefs comes from the rather infamous book 'The Sirius Mystery'. Serious doubt has been cast on any of the claims made by this book. As for Nommo, etc. one should be careful not to ascribe literal translations to what religious texts are saying - these sorts of stories also gave rise to the whole thing about Ezekiel seeing UFOs too. All of this sort of thing was made very popular due to Von Daniken and others claiming that mankind had been vistited by aliens in the past and that these aliens became the gods of ancient time. Lastly, there have even been occasions where certain authors have simply made up passages from old books, sagas, epics, etc. to suit their 'ancient astronaut' arguement. One good example is a certain author's way of including sections of fabricated quotes from the ancient 'Epic of Gilgamesh'.
 
Ezekiel.... now there's another fascinating story. HOW could you read that and not see that he was taken up in a craft and flown to Tel Abib? And he was so traumatized by the event that it took him days to recover? Why? Wouldn't he have had more trust in his LORD? Or maybe it was a little different then he had imagined?
Ezekiel
3:12 Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, saying, Blessed be the glory of the LORD from his place.
3:13 I heard also the noise of the wings of the living creatures that touched one another, and the noise of the wheels over against them, and a noise of a great rushing.
3:14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me.
3:15 Then I came to them of the captivity at Telabib, that dwelt by the river of Chebar, and I sat where they sat, and remained there astonished among them seven days. "

The 'rushing water' noise was the sound of a motor, which they had never heard. I find it interesting that there are so many references to things coming out of the heavens in the Bible, but no-one will consider what that might entail in reality. Doesn't the text in Ezekiel clearly state that a craft came down and took Ezekiel up in it? I have talked to a couple deeply religious people about this text, and they either don't address what they read, or claim they haven't read it! I am remaining open-minded, it is not for me to say it's one way or another. How would we know? By the way, weren't these ancient texts around before the others? There are pictures of helmeted figures and crafts on cave walls! Fascinating! :wow:
 
Be careful not to take such stuff so literally, be it in text form or as pictures of ancient 'spacemen'. Just because something sounds or looks similar to something doesn't make it so. Alot of the time the reader or viewer is projecting their ideas onto what is being read or seen. Stuff like Ezekiel could really be about anything - but ordinarily it seems to describe some sort of religious vision rather than an encounter with a structured craft. IMHO there's nothing in the text which makes me think it's anything but some sort of vision or religious experience - it talks about him being lifted up by spirit, for example. I don't think this means anything physical, any more than when someone says that they find an inspirational experience 'uplifting' ;) It doesn't mean that they actually fly ;)
 
Hi Gemaki,

Gemaki said:
Ezekiel.... HOW could you read that and not see that he was taken up in a craft and flown to Tel Abib?
Click to expand...

Quite easily, particularly if the idea hadn't been planted in one's mind before one is directed to the account (well known trick of the lower rent "mysteries and marvels" books).


The 'rushing water' noise was the sound of a motor, which they had never heard.
Click to expand...

A bit disappointing that extra-terrestrials who can travel billions of miles haven't got beyond the internal combustion engine.

I find it interesting that there are so many references to things coming out of the heavens in the Bible, but no-one will consider what that might entail in reality. Doesn't the text in Ezekiel clearly state that a craft came down and took Ezekiel up in it?
Click to expand...

at the end of the day, it's just a metaphysical account of some heavenly, fiery chariot that appears in a volume of contradictory origin myths and hand-me-down rehashes of older legends (Gilgamesh etc). You can no more take it at face value than you can the story of the Garden of Eden. The original text has some untranslatable words, so somewhere along the line, scholars have just selected "best fit" words.

If you really believe it was an alien spacecraft, fair enough, and I'd like to believe it too, but all it can be is a beleif, akin to faith itself.

There's no evidence for it at all, and, therefore, since it's so spectacularly unlikely (technological beings crossing the galaxy only to give a bloke a ride and piss off home again - where, for example, are the aliens now, where are the other accounts of their visits, the material evidence, if any, they left behind?), I personally see no reason to accept that hypothesis.

Interesting stuff though.
 
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Welllll

Personally, I think there was a craft of some type. If he had received this message from God to go talk to these people, then had just gone there... why would he be so stunned that he sat there for a week? It would probably have taken him awhile to travel there, no? Also, if you consider all the information and 'help' that has been supposedly received from 'beings' from above, it makes me wonder if maybe they're helping us along this time because we didn't do so good the other times? The information we received from the Oe were astronomy, sciences, writing, art, law, construction, geometry, etc. For material examples, how about the battery that was found in Egypt, or the spark plug encased in rock? There have been all sorts of things found in rock.. gold chains, thread, metal, etc. In France in the 1780's, they were quarrying limestone and had been working through 12 layers when they found petrified quarrying tools exactly like the ones they were using. The estimated age of the layer they were digging was 300 million years! How is that possible? I tend to believe that maybe we're the second or third ant farm! What I want to know is if the Babylonians got astronomy, why can't I have some winning lottery numbers!?
 
None of these things, like the Baghdad battery, were beyond the scope of human ingenuity. Compared to the construction of the pyramids, such things pale into insignificance. Ezekiel's words make no mention of any sort of craft or similar object, but just sensations or feelings. WRT things found embedded in rock, alot of them were found a long time ago and thus one has to question the authenticity of such claims. Why, for example, have such things not been found today during modern quarrying and mining?

As I've said before, the thing is to not take such things too litrally. Von Daniken etc. made their mark by relying on the fact that their readership was not privvy to such information. But more informed sources questioned their work and tore holes in their arguements from the outset. The whole school of thought that goes with the 'ancient astronauts' theories has been shown to be full of inconsistencies and downright fabrications.Such theories also take the view that, for some reason, humans cannot have come up with all the wonders of he ancient world, simply because some modern pundits can't grasp the fact that great feats could be achieved with 'primitive' technology.
 
JerryB said:
Why, for example, have such things not been found today during modern quarrying and mining?
Click to expand...

In a first for me, I'll let the Creationist's do the research:

Iron Pot. In 1912, two employees of the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma were working with some coal that had been mined near Wilburton, Oklahoma. One chunk was too large for the furnace, so it was hit with a sledge and it immediately broke open. An iron pot fell out, leaving an impression (mold) of its shape in the coal. An affidavit was filled out by the two witnesses and the pot was photographed. The pot has been seen by thousands of people. (Creation Research Society Quarterly, March 1971, p. 201.)

Child’s Spoon. While still a child, in 1937, Mrs. Myrna A. Burdick, together with her mother found a child’s spoon in soft Pennsylvania coal. A picture of it is to be found in Creation Research Society Quarterly, for June 1976 (page 74).
-------------------------------------

If anything was found today, the most likely scenario is that
it would be kept by the finder in hopes that it is valuable...
no modern worker would ever think of reporting such a find
to any type of news outlet... and if they did the chances of
it actually being reported through the media are slim.

Although he argued against the possibility
of ET contact, uber-skeptic Carl Sagan
at one point publicly stated that the Oannes tales may be
the best evidence of ancient ET/human contact.

Robert Temple's unanswered final argument was: how, in two or three years’ time, could this information filter down through the entire Dogon and surrounding cultures (two million people) and show up in hundreds of thousands of objects, woven blankets, carved statues, and more?

Remember -- keep those minds open... ;)
TVgeek
 
By 'modern' I meant something along the lines of the latter half of the 20th century. Such finds seemed to have dried up, even tho' mining and quarrying of various sorts has not exactly become a thing of the past ;) I don't think the chances of a more modern find being reported are 'slim' - archaeological finds are still being reported all of the time, after they have been uncovered by modern technological processes like road building, etc..
 
There are lots of books,most quoting one another regarding out of place artifacts.Where are they???
Apart from the geode which appears to have some sort of spark plug embedded in it I can't recollect seeing a photograph of any of the objects always getting a mention.
I'm not including the Bagdhad battery here.I would not regard that as out of place,only perhaps as unusual in as much as no one had seen one before.
 
There's no evidence at all for the ancient astronauts theory. I don't know why it exists. As for OOPARTs, that's a different matter. There is a small but difficult-to-ignore body of evidence that needs to be explained. "Phenomena - A Book Of Wonders" from '77 (I think) gives a number of photos - coins in coal, trillobites crushed by sandal prints, gyroscopes in stone, seamed spheres, etc.
 
My own favourite theory...

...about out of time artefacts and tribolites crushed by trainers, is that they're evidence of time-travellers. ;)
(it's not very likely, but fits the reported facts as well as ancient astronauts)

BTW the Bagdhad battery isn't really out of place, it could just show that the magicians of the era knew more about chemistry than we thought, and got to the electric cell a long time before Galvani.
 
I read a theory somewhere (can't remember the source) that the battery may have been used by jewellers of the time for gold & silver plating.Makes you wonder if any of the "gold" items held in museums are in fact plated.
 
TVGeek; you undoubtedly realize this already, but note that the iron pot story dates from Oklahoma in 1912; this is suggestive, as this was arguably the peak period when Fundamentalist Xtian movements were springing up "all over" the American mid-West (indeed, the Charismatic Pentacostal movement -as a fairly typical, and in my case all-too-handy :(, example- was founded in Kansas in, IIRC, 1912) in a direct response to the perceived 'Threat to Faith' posed by both Evolutionary Theory and the work of Geologists in dating rocks. It is therefore entirely possible that the pot's 'discoverers' were themselves victims of a hoax, or were themselves perpetrating a hoax, set up for the purposes of 'anti-science' propaganda.

The assertion that those involved signed an affadavit testifying to the circumstances in which they found the pot doesn't make it impossible that they were lying. (False statements are committed to affadavit all the time, and 1912, contrary to what some people prefer to believe, was a time when the law was generally (tho' not universally) granted significantly less respect than it's afforded today.) Nor does it guarantee that they weren't simply among the victims of a hoax.

The photographs -according to the source you quote- are of the pot, and not of the pot along with the coal it came out of, and with the impression (mold) of the pot clearly visible in the coal, and thus do not constitute evidence to back up the story of how the pot was found.

The assertion that thousands of people have seen the pot since 1912, is irrelevant: none of them were witnesses to the alleged discovery.

The second instance raises the question in my mind of how the hell did Mrs. Burdick and her mother know the spoon was a child's spoon: a spoon is a spoon, isn't it?

Originally posted by TVGeek
If anything was found today, the most likely scenario is that it would be kept by the finder in hopes that it is valuable... no modern worker would ever think of reporting such a find to any type of news outlet... and if they did the chances of it actually being reported through the media are slim.
Click to expand...
If a worker found something he thought was valuable, wouldn't he try to find out? Or would he bung it in a shoebox and hide it in his closet for XX years instead, gloating about how rich he's going to be if he ever does sell it, while carrying on working down the mine? I can't see that scenario as tenable, let alone likely. As for not reporting it: pfui. Why wouldn't he? 15 minutes of fame could be his. People go on Jerry Springer to publicize their unnatural love for barnyard animals for less. He might even make some extra dough. He works it right, it might even get him laid. At the very least he might get the odd free beer out of it. And as for the media not reporting it: don't make me laugh. They'd be falling over themselves to air it even if it's just to laugh at it at the tail end of a news show, and if it was something like a modern equivalent to the Iron Pot there are a multitude of very wealthy Fundamentalist churches that would love to get their hands on 'yet another proof' of how wrong science gets things.
 
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Ezekiel

I've never understood the fuss about Ezekiel's supposed flying machine.

Reading Ezekiel, I cannot determine a description of a flying craft, although I can see how people may be projecting that image onto his words. The description Ezekiel gives is fantastical, no doubt about it, but it would have been a bizzare (and I would presume un-aerodynamic) craft.

I remember reading in a book (may have been von Daniken, or could have been one entitled "Did Spacemen Visit Earth" - can't remember the author) in which an engineer drew up schematics from Ezekiels desription. The end result was a helicopter with four separate propellers, which was a bit dissapointing as I was expecting 'wheels within wheels' and 'living creatures'.

I try to remeber when refering to texts like this that they were written in a differant age, and that the meaning may well have been clear for the original audience when read in their native tongue, but translating the text two or three times and moving forward in time a couple of thousand years may distort the interpretation.
 
If any of you want to read Ezekiel in Latin or Hebrew, I found those while Googling. Are there any existing remains that the Bible was translated from? How far back can we go?
 
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Here is an interesting website with lots of photos of out-of-time artifacts, including a hammer in a block of sandstone and an arrow tip in a dino bone. I am almost certain that the egyptian heiroglyphics of tanks and helicopters were from "Indiana Jones" though.

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/mmmgroup/e-gall.html
 
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The problem with that first website is that it doesn't really show anything 'impossible', and other things are highly conjectural, based on a lack of knowledge about a given subject (i.e. heiroglyphs, Egyptian art styles). Other things seem like guesswork (i.e. the spear tip in the dinosaur bone), or because they look like something familiar (i.e. 'aircraft'). IIRC, the Russian spirals were tested and found to be filiments from lightbulbs or waste artefacts from modern metalworking - they're not old, as they were all found at the site of an old industrial dumping ground. The Egyptian heiroglyphs in the US could very easily be more modern - no mystery there. The Japanese underwater site could be a natural formation. AFAIK, the walls of Sacsahuaman in Peru aren't beyond the scope of human construction, but their technique still remains elusive - but this doesn't point to anything being 'weird' about them. And as for the 'sphere' from South Africa, well, we only have someone's word that it does such strange things. If it did, I'm suprised more of a fuss is not made of such an object.
 
It's a fascinsting website nonetheless.I particularly like the alleged egyptian carvings in Australia.
The fossilised giant however is a known hoax and the Eltanian antenna is now known to be some form of marine life,a sponge I think.
 
I am inclined to agree with you Jerry, but unfortunatly, evidence is often swept under the carpet when it doesn't fit with current theory, this happens all the time to some degree. Also James Hutton was laughed at when he theorised that the earth was billions of years old instead of a few thousand, but he turned out to be right.

I agree that most of the stuff probably has its "meaning" projected onto it because it may look like an aircraft to us or whatever, but if a fossil human hand 100 million years old really has been found then it would be awful to think it had just been ignored because it doesn't fit with accepted theory. I can just see our decendants laughing at how ignorant we were in the same way we do about our ancestors.

Anyway, who knows?;)

(shame about the antenna-sponge)
 
a bit of an OT rant...

OK, here is the reason for my cynicism toward anything
"unusual" being reported by any sort of media:

In the mid-80's I was a student of archaeology. I was
intrigued with the book-learning part of the science
and ready to try some fieldwork, so I took an unpaid
staff position at a University run dig near Tel-Aviv, Israel.

The area I was working turned out to be part of a city
market. There was a definite cobbled floor, and
evidence of unworked Egyptian cylinder seals that
indicated that this was where they were "manufactured"
and thus part of the marketplace. There were remains
of low walls on this floor level -- nice neat rooms
were laid out, with the exception of one wall that ran
diagonally though the whole area. It was on the same level as
the other walls, but since it bi-sected the rooms, it
seemed to be part of some other large structure.

One day, the professor who was in charge of the area
(and who I was the assistant to) told me to get a few
workers together and remove the diagonal wall. Completely.
I asked him, "Isn't that the most intriguing part of the site?"

He said, "Yes, it is... get rid of it!" By the tone of his voice,
I knew better than to argue. The next day, Time Magazine
photographers arrived to document the work being done.
(Ultimately, one photo of a different area was published...
no mention of why we were there was printed, either...)

Even though I had sketched the wall daily as part of the site record, no mention of this larger structure was ever
published in the final paper. At the time, I was a student
and did what I was told... after all, the professors knew
best... didn't they?

I changed my major on return to the US. In part large
part because of what I witnessed.

Having worked in television news for 15 years, I
learned even further how hard it is to get reporters
to take strange events seriously.

Pardon my skepticism toward the media --
academic or otherwise.
Your mileage may vary...

TVgeek
-end of rant
 
A Certain Astronomer named Carl Sagan devoted some time to the Ancient Astonauts Theory in his collabouration with I Shklovskii `Intelegent Life in the Universe` 1966 (before Von Daniken, you will note.) He spent the rest of his life trying to atone for this.

(Anyone of you who have read his novel `Contact` will know the sort of Aliens he was searching for...)

But that does not invalidate the theory. There are so many discoveries to be made in archaology...tommorow...

But your right, these things do get covered up. And that is not just paranoid conspiracy theory stuff, (a genure I despise) merely sad reality.

And even if we were told, who would care?
 
Kondoru said:
A Certain Astronomer named Carl Sagan devoted some time to the Ancient Astonauts Theory in his collabouration with I Shklovskii `Intelegent Life in the Universe` 1966 (before Von Daniken, you will note.) He spent the rest of his life trying to atone for this.

(Anyone of you who have read his novel `Contact` will know the sort of Aliens he was searching for...)

...
Click to expand...
Just last night I was reading something interesting and which relates to Kondoru's Post:
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/temple.htm

...

In 1976, Royal Archeological Fellow Robert Temple put forth a startling theory. He asserted that an evidently primitive African tribe, the Dogon, had substantial astronomical knowledge concerning the existence of a "heavy" hidden, companion star to Sirius. This book was greeted by critical acclaim and almost universal academic chagrin. Numerous NASA luminaries attacked Temple with what seemed far too much enthusiasm. As things developed, Temple was eventually vindicated by a number of astronomical observations.

...

In 1977 the BBC made a 90-minute television documentary special for their series Horizon, entitled 'The Case for Ancient Astronauts'. I [Temple] was contracted as a Researcher, which was my first television job. I was originally supposed to be the subject of the entire programme, but the producer, Graham Massey, became more interested in discrediting Erich von Daniken, so most of the programme was devoted to that. Graham did an incredible demolition job on von Daniken; I did not prepare that material, but worked only on my own subject matter. The last fifteen minutes of the programme were devoted to the Sirius Mystery, which Graham treated very fairly indeed, contrasting it as a 'respectable theory' with what he considered the nonsense of von Daniken. From the script, which I have, I see that the narration of the programme states of myself that 'He is an assiduous, careful, and extremely knowledgeable researcher.'

While the programme was being prepared, Graham kept getting phone calls from a stranger in America. Finally Graham told me about them. He said the man was ranting and saying 'you must not let Robert Temple on television'. (Also, it appeared that the man in question was available for an interview himself at anytime!) Graham told me: 'I told this annoying man that I am the producer of the programme and I make my own decisions about who appears in it and who doesn't, and would he please stop calling me all the time.' The man apparently kept mentioning that he worked for NASA, and Graham was doubly annoyed that there seemed to be the implication that the American authorities did not think I should receive media attention. The man was the same one who had phoned Arthur Clarke. NASA was never disassociated from this man's activities and attacks against me.

-------------

So who was this "annoying man" who was so frothingly determined to keep Robert Temple and the Sirius Mystery from getting on television? And who apparently had the full backing of NASA in his efforts?

Well, by agreement with Temple, we are not at liberty to disclose the "annoying man's" name. We are however, not above dropping the subtlest of hints as to his identity ...

carl3.jpg


So ask yourself, why was this "annoying man," supposedly such a paragon of strict empiricism and logical skepticism, so anxious to keep Temple from being heard? For the same reasons that the intelligence agencies were! Because Temple was not "on the team" and therefore not aware of the information release policy, he had to be kept from obtaining an audience at all costs. Again, is this the behavior of cool rationalists who have nothing to hide? ...
Click to expand...
 
ezekiel

I have read ezekiel and think gemaki has a point. It does, in some ways, seem to describe a machine, rather than any spiritual representation of god. (show me spiritual divinity and I'll join your gang!).
I cant help but to visualise verse 7 (king James) as the landing gear of the apollo 11 module as it landed on the surface of the moon.
It seems to me that ezekiel is facing the same inability to describe what it is he is seeing as a kurdish shepherd dumped at fairford air tattoo would have!
Perhaps ezekiels description needs an updated view.
The wheels within wheels could be circles within circles - as in circles of light. search lights maybe?
Perhaps the technology (if it is indeed the case) could be beyond our comprehension, a left over device from an anti diluvian civilisation?
 
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