• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Oddities & Idiocies In Using Autonomous / Self-Driving Vehicles

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
29,622
Location
Out of Bounds
Here's an example of what one may expect on the highways of tomorrow - seeing other cars within which the driver and any passengers are napping. Or are they? ....
Tesla driver sleeps while apparently using autopilot on highway

A traveler on a Massachusetts highway captured video of a "strange and baffling" sight -- a Tesla car on autopilot with both the driver and a front-seat passenger apparently asleep.

Dakota Randall captured video Sunday showing the vehicle apparently traveling on autopilot on the Massachusetts Turnpike in Newton.

"It was just so strange and baffling" Randall told WBZ-TV. "I thought I saw somebody asleep at the wheel, but I wasn't sure so I did a double-take. Sure enough there was somebody with his head right between his legs."

Randall said he attempted to use his horn to wake up the people in the car, but they didn't react to the sound.

"It was just so bizarre that I just had to get it on video, because it's so strange," he said. "They looked like they needed to go home and go to bed."

Massachusetts State Police said there are no laws on the books specifically banning sleeping behind the wheel of a self-driving car.

SOURCE (With Video): https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2019/0...sing-autopilot-on-highway/1631568140102/?lh=7
 
It does little good to back up the autonomous driving system with a human who isn't paying attention. I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of this ...
Police test lighting in probe of Uber self-driving crash
July 14, 2019

Police outside Phoenix recently closed part of a street to conduct a lighting test as an investigation continues into the 2018 death of a woman who was struck and killed by an Uber self-driving SUV.

The Maricopa County Attorney’s Office says prosecutors asked for more investigation before making a decision about whether to charge backup driver Rafaela Vasquez who was supposed to take control in an emergency. Another prosecutor’s office decided in March not to charge Uber. ...

The investigation last year by Tempe Police determined the accident was “entirely avoidable,” but prosecutors wanted more information. ...

Vasquez, 45, told investigators that she didn’t use her cellphone before the crash. But authorities say records show Vasquez was streaming the television show “The Voice” on her phone and was looking downward in the moments before the crash. Investigators concluded the crash could have been avoided had Vasquez not been distracted.

Dash camera video shows Vasquez was looking down near her right knee for four or five seconds before the crash. She looked up a half-second before striking Herzberg.

Vasquez told police Herzberg “came out of nowhere” and that she didn’t see her prior to the collision. But officers calculated that had Vasquez been paying attention, she could have reacted 143 feet (44 meters) before impact and brought the SUV to a stop about 42 feet (12.8 meters) before hitting Herzberg.

SOURCE: https://www.apnews.com/01c0eb0836544a78bca99e040afeca0c
 
On last night's news.

An Uber self drive car that was involved in an accident was NOT programmed to see jaywalkers.
 
asleep (not) at the wheel.

A Canadian man has been charged with dangerous driving for allegedly taking a nap while his self-driving Tesla car clocked up more than 90mph (150km/h).

Police said both front seats were fully reclined, and the driver and passenger were apparently asleep when they were alerted to the incident in Alberta.

When police turned on emergency lights and other vehicles moved out of the way, the Tesla Model S sped up.

The 20-year-old driver from British Columbia is due in court in December.

He had initially been charged with speeding and handed a 24-hour licence suspension for fatigue, but was subsequently charged with dangerous driving.

The incident happened near Ponoka, some 100km south of Edmonton, in July. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54197344
 
This Houston area self-driving joy ride (?) led to self-cremation and self-evident firefighters' inability to extinguish a flaming Tesla.
‘No one was driving the car’: 2 men dead after fiery Tesla crash in Spring, officials say

Two men are dead after a Tesla traveling in Spring crashed into a tree and no one was driving the vehicle, officials say.

The crash happened at 11:25 p.m. in the Carlton Woods subdivision near The Woodlands. The car burst into flames after hitting a tree near 18 Hammock Dunes Place.

Harris County Precinct 4 Constable Mark Herman told KPRC 2 that the investigation showed “no one was driving” the fully-electric 2019 Tesla when the accident happened. There was a person in the passenger seat of the front of the car and in the rear passenger seat of the car. ...

Herman said authorities believe no one else was in the car and that it burst into flames immediately. ...

Harris County Constable Precinct 4 deputies said the vehicle was traveling at a high speed when it failed to negotiate a cul-de-sac turn, ran off the road and hit the tree.

KPRC 2 reporter Deven Clarke spoke to one man’s brother-in-law who said he was taking the car out for a spin with his best friend, so there were just two in the vehicle. ...

The owner, he said, backed out of the driveway, and then may have hopped in the back seat only to crash a few hundred yards down the road. He said the owner was found in the back seat upright.

The brother-in-law of one of the victims said relatives watched the car burn for four hours as authorities tried to tap out the flames. ...

Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kept reigniting. At one point, Herman said, deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery. ...

SOURCE: https://www.click2houston.com/news/...er-fiery-tesla-crash-in-spring-officials-say/
 
These self driving cars seem like a recipient for disaster and chaos on the roads. It's bound to get worse the more of them are on the roads . I have a bad feeling about them . Can't see the point. If you need an awake , sober , human driver for "back up" , who needs to pay attention in case back up is needed , then why the point of the self drive in the first place , if you need to pay full attention?.

Just don't see the point if them.

The above story about the car on flames is particularly nasty. ...and the firemen couldn't put the damn thing out and had to ring tesla because the battery kept reigniting. Like I said , a recipe for disaster these cars. Also stupid humans decided to sit in the back and passenger seats and leave no-one in charge as back up.

These incidents are on,y going to get more common. Again I don't see the point of them. More trouble than what they worth. There will be more people buying them to fall asleep/play on phones and not pay attention / not even bother even being in drivers seat. We got enough bad drivers on the roads these days without these things adding more chaos.
 
Last edited:
This most recent incident in Houston is drawing substantial federal scrutiny.
US sends team to probe fatal Tesla crash with no driver

Federal safety regulators have sent a team to investigate the fatal crash of a Tesla in a Houston suburb in which local authorities say no one was behind the wheel.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Monday it has sent a Special Crash Investigation team to Spring, Texas, to look into the Saturday night crash of the electric car.

Investigators are “100% sure” that no one was driving the 2019 Tesla Model S that ran off a residential road, hit a tree and burst into flames, killing two men inside, Harris County Precinct Four Constable Mark Herman said. ...

But they’re still trying to determine whether the electric car was operating on Tesla’s Autopilot driver-assist system, or if the company’s “Full Self-Driving Capability” system was in use. ...

FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/technology-houston-texas-280521ffcddd7b8d63a15c9d99fc2add
 
Read the three different captions.

20210419_213330.jpg
 
UPDATE
according to to Elon Musk, data recovered from the crashed Tesla S in Houston, in which 2 peole died, showed the 'auto-pilot' was not enabled at the time of the crash.

Tesla: Elon Musk suggests Autopilot not to blame for fatal crash

Tesla's chief said data recovered so far showed Autopilot was not enabled.

Mark Herman, Harris County Precinct 4 constable said that “no-one was driving the vehicle at the time of impact”, adding that the case was still under investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56799749
 
What I don't really get about these Tesla incidents is that when people buy them they ARE told that the cars are NOT self-driving, only semi-autonomous, and that a driver needs to present, with their hands on the wheel, and that sensors will detect that this is so.
Then people find ways around the 'hands on the wheel' thing.
So it's surely not much of a surprise if they crash.
AFAIK the Tesla system relies on the computers making an interpretation of images from onboard cameras to determine what lays ahead, and a short-range sensor operating on microwave wavelengths.

I mean, if you were an aircraft pilot, and you were told that the auto-pilot does not do the take-off, flight, and landing, but merely follows whatever continuous flight characteristic you set, and requires you to be at the controls, I doubt whether you would climb into one of the passenger seats, put your feet up, and expect the plane to take you to your destination.
 
UPDATE
according to to Elon Musk, data recovered from the crashed Tesla S in Houston, in which 2 peole died, showed the 'auto-pilot' was not enabled at the time of the crash.

Tesla: Elon Musk suggests Autopilot not to blame for fatal crash

Tesla's chief said data recovered so far showed Autopilot was not enabled.

Mark Herman, Harris County Precinct 4 constable said that “no-one was driving the vehicle at the time of impact”, adding that the case was still under investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56799749
One wonders whether the occupants thought they had engaged autopilot but hadn't (for example) pressed a button hard enough. (Or in fact that the driver bailed out immediately after the crash and ran off.) Having watched You Tubes where Tesla models have been dismantled, it's clear as you would imagine that there is a vast amount of wiring involved. Even a minor electrical fault can disable an ordinary car, dread to think the consequences of such a fault on driverless cars in motion.
 
What I don't really get about these Tesla incidents is that when people buy them they ARE told that the cars are NOT self-driving, only semi-autonomous, and that a driver needs to present, with their hands on the wheel, and that sensors will detect that this is so.
Then people find ways around the 'hands on the wheel' thing.
So it's surely not much of a surprise if they crash.
AFAIK the Tesla system relies on the computers making an interpretation of images from onboard cameras to determine what lays ahead, and a short-range sensor operating on microwave wavelengths.

I mean, if you were an aircraft pilot, and you were told that the auto-pilot does not do the take-off, flight, and landing, but merely follows whatever continuous flight characteristic you set, and requires you to be at the controls, I doubt whether you would climb into one of the passenger seats, put your feet up, and expect the plane to take you to your destination.
I wouldnt have thought it would be too hard to fit the type of 'deadman' sensor/switch in to the seat of these cars, in the same way that most construction plant vehicles do, this would prevent the vehicle from operating unless there was someone in the driving seat, maybe even a backward facing camera/sensor to see if there is a human present also linked to the drive train.
 
As we know from observing humans though....there is always some idiot that that removes the 'safety switch' ** cos it makes operation easier.

**(insert any other device that prevents people hurting themselves - shield, stop-bar, weight sensor, etc etc)
 
Surely with all the technology that these cars incorporate, a simple sensor to detect whether someone is actually in the driver's seat before the car is permitted to move should be a self-evident safety feature? Sensors that detect the presence of a person sitting on a car seat are common (I'd guess almost ubiquitous) in modern cars to warn drivers/passengers that they don't have their seatbelt fastened - so why not here?

If the electronic 'brain' in these cars is liable to 'think': "Okay, I've been switched on, the owner wants me to go to x, there's no-one behind the wheel - but that's okay, let's go!" then that would appear to me to be a fundamental safety flaw.

I'm with @FunkyTT :
Can't see the point. If you need an awake , sober , human driver for "back up" , who needs to pay attention in case back up is needed , then why the point of the self drive in the first place , if you need to pay full attention?.

I won't consider buying one until the time comes (if it ever does) that they're 100% safe to let just drive themselves while I catch forty winks. Until then, I want to be the person in control and with the concomittent responsibility.
 
Surely with all the technology that these cars incorporate, a simple sensor to detect whether someone is actually in the driver's seat before the car is permitted to move should be a self-evident safety feature? Sensors that detect the presence of a person sitting on a car seat are common (I'd guess almost ubiquitous) in modern cars to warn drivers/passengers that they don't have their seatbelt fastened - so why not here?

If the electronic 'brain' in these cars is liable to 'think': "Okay, I've been switched on, the owner wants me to go to x, there's no-one behind the wheel - but that's okay, let's go!" then that would appear to me to be a fundamental safety flaw.

I'm with @FunkyTT :


I won't consider buying one until the time comes (if it ever does) that they're 100% safe to let just drive themselves while I catch forty winks. Until then, I want to be the person in control and with the concomittent responsibility.
A sort of Dead Man's Handle thing? I'd have it somewhere around the rim of the seat, so that it couldn't be overcome by just putting a weight on the driver's seat, but maybe needed to be pressed by the leg or foot of someone sitting there. Might also prevent them from reclining the seat to sleep, and needing a constant kind of pressure may help ensure that the 'driver' is alert and aware. If the switch or button or sensor becomes unpressed, the engine could cut out so that the car glides to a stop (not altogether safe if on a motorway, but probably safer than a car continuing at 90mph with no driver). It could also cause the lights to flash to alert other road users. An enormous in-car alarm noise might be quite fun too.
 
As we know from observing humans though....there is always some idiot that that removes the 'safety switch' ** cos it makes operation easier.

**(insert any other device that prevents people hurting themselves - shield, stop-bar, weight sensor, etc etc)
At least if is factory fitted, any incident that happens if the owner/operator disables such device is soley on their shoulders, absolving the manufacturer of any blame.
 
I mean, if you were an aircraft pilot, and you were told that the auto-pilot does not do the take-off, flight, and landing, but merely follows whatever continuous flight characteristic you set, and requires you to be at the controls, I doubt whether you would climb into one of the passenger seats, put your feet up, and expect the plane to take you to your destination.

You seem to forget sir that people are, largely, idiots.
 
People, in general, are stupid, ignorant and lazy.

I don't understand why anyone would buy a car with an external combustion engine from a pot smoking weirdo who thinks the pyramids were built by aliens.

screenshot_musk_spliff.jpg
He is Tony Stark, though.
 
I seem to be behind the times but I'm surprised that there actually are cars out there for sale self-driving as opposed to cruise control. And yes very surprised indeed that they can be operated without the rear end of a sitting-up person in the seat. Not only do they need a dead-man switch, they need periodic reassurance that the driver is awake. Otherwise you could set the course however that is done, hit start, leave and close the door. I see a whole new area of "flying tesla" highway ghost stories coming along. The car that drove across country and is met in foggy mountain passes with no one in it.
 
I've copied this line directly from the Tesla UK site:

"Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

So does that mean they can't do it, or just that they shouldn't?
 
I've copied this line directly from the Tesla UK site:

"Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."

So does that mean they can't do it, or just that they shouldn't?
Tesla seems to be making the assumption that their customers won't do something daft.
They need to build in a bit of fool-proofing.
 
At least if is factory fitted, any incident that happens if the owner/operator disables such device is soley on their shoulders, absolving the manufacturer of any blame.

The owners are smart enough to know how to do something that they don't understand is stupid to do. That's twisting my brain in knots.
 
Tesla seems to be making the assumption that their customers won't do something daft.
They need to build in a bit of fool-proofing.

To quote Douglas Adams:
"a common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools"
 
I mean..

“I presumed that cruise control worked with the sat nav to negotiate the roads safely. Imagine my surprise when no sooner had I flicked the switch on the kettle that we hit a tree at 40mph."

It almost sounds like a quote from the "readers letters" in Viz magazine. :rolleyes:

From the Suffolk Gazette - Woman crashed motorhome using cruise control while making cup of tea

Between people not understanding how to use technology (such as the above) and people who set out to deliberately circumvent safety features (see below), I'm leaning more and more towards FunkyTT's point of view.

From BBC website: UK Train disaster driver had 'feet up'
In his opening statement on Monday counsel to the inquiry Ian Burnett QC said that Mr Harrison had earlier been seen driving with his feet up.
This prompted speculation that he may have put a bag on the so-called "dead man's handle" - the pedal which stops the train if the driver takes his foot off it.
 
The Suffolk Gazette is just a spoof thing, it's all fiction.
Argh! :heartb: I'm deeply shamed! :horr:

I was actually looking for a (genuine) report from America of someone who did just that and came across the Suffolk Gazette article first. Apologies all. I'll try to find the American example.. ETA - apparently it's an urban legend; this is an example of the one I was thinking about, from RVTravel. Oh well, I'm certanily not the first person to fall for an ul; doing so publicly on the Fortean Times forum is embarassing though.

(Next you'll be telling me that the Daily Mash isn't real news.) :)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top