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Off-Grid Fringe Living & The Rise Of Outlaw Communities

skinny

skinny

Nigh
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
8,792
Are there any threads on off-grid fringe communities?

It's a rapidly growing phenomenon as the economocratic divide broadens. There are people who can't make it in the mainstream, yet aren't willing to capitulate completely into tweaker subsocial predators or hunger-fuelled urban zombies. Slab City is a place that seems to sustain a sizeable population under one house paradigm - respect. The commune thing ain't new, but enforced poverty is impacting right up the (social) class scale / line. Where do we end up? These fringe dwellers are a subclass that could indeed become alt-norm, and soon. I reckon communities can live dignified lives with very little, materially. But can we create alt-infrastructure that serves communal needs without becoming another tribal conflict zone? Harder to achieve.

I'm into thinking about it. I aim to get doing about it - developing practical pathways for the transfer of authority and responsibility across into the hands of the meek.

Your thoughts, experiences, ideas, suggestions and links to this fine topic are welcomed.

Slab City
1. from inside.

2. from the outside.
 
Stats for the US in terms of rising numbers of official homeless are dramatic. One could predict that the numbers are conservative because it is hard to count mobile humans accurately. The US is / has been a good barometer for social change across other 'advanced' western states.

The places people are going are pretty obvious - dry and warm for the most part (see statmap below). New York State is one of the outliers in this regard. This article gives some insights into the state of affairs in the US.
https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/why-are-so-many-people-homeless/

Homelessness_statistics_by_state%2C_United_States_Interagency_Council_on_Homelessness_%282019%29.png

Source: United States Interagency Council on Homelessness - https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2800&fn[]=6200&fn[]=10000&fn[]=13200 via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

A country like Australia would similarly be a good place to find an off-grid domain given the vast arid landscape and low population. A country like England would be a much tougher proposition - high-density population and limited landscape and hard weather in winter.

Any of our members and readers ever had to deal with homelessness for an extended period? I haven't, but I regularly take the opportunity to drive out into the land and live on the earth for as long as my sedentary job and lifestyle allow. I'd find transition to that as a living mode impossibly difficult all the same. I don't mind sleeping on the ground, but my medical issues would be one of the hardest of needs to maintain. Fuel and upkeep for the vehicle would also be difficult/impossible. I reckon I could grow my own food and stockpile resources if I were left to my own devices.

That's just dreaming though. I am NOT an advocate for homelessness, but I believe in off-grid living as a normal mode for the future of our societies. The realities for those on the outer must be horrendous. Exposure to the elements, not to mention the human predators that feed on the vulnerable, all these things like a house and a job and a cop around the corner we take for granted are far more than creature comforts. Infrastructure requires regulated upkeep. I just don't think the capitalist model can be sustained or can sustain the needs of a burgeoning outcast class. We need solutions that are less dollar-dependent and more inclusive of rational, skilled and selfless contributors. There's the rub. Can it be achieved without the toxic bureaucracy?

Most solutions-based intervention involves prevention and costs tons of someone else's money. I propose that the bird has flown and we need now to deal with the emerging reality of permanent domains supporting large populations of mobile people. Those are the places that require infrastructure and attention. If hollywood is to be believed, the swarm effect will likely see those places overrun by packs of zombies, so more guns and ammo are urgently required. In reality, these domains are filling with ordinary ex-citizens who need support in many ways.

Can it occur in an urban environment, or are fringe shanty towns the only option? I don't know.
 
Thankee.

More Slab City residents and their day-to-day - bit more current, this one. Guy says the population swells to 2000 souls in winter. My god.

 
Here's what I see as the primary problem in getting started on these issues ...

At least as far as the developed nations are concerned, there isn't a well-defined single population that lives - or is driven to live, or seeks to live - outside the mainstream lifestyles, settlements and / or socioeconomic entanglements. There are all sorts of variations, and the variations can be remixed in a variety of combinations.

For example (and over-simplifying for illustration) ...

There are folks who lead a nomadic sort of life. Some are rootless or uprooted transients or drifters, while others are itinerant workers or tradespeople. In other words, transience is an aspect of imposed disadvantage for some, whereas it's an intrinsic component of a coherent (if atypical or eccentric) lifestyle for others. Accommodating one version doesn't necessarily imply adequately accommodating the other.

Fixed settlements also exhibit diversity. A 'homeless camp' or 'shanty town' is a different thing from a back-to-the-land farm commune. One accommodates people with nowhere else to go, while the other accommodates folks who have committed to not going anywhere else.

To further complicate things ... There are cases in which an outsider lifestyle derives from personal choice rather than disadvantage or default. Finally, there are cases in which an individual is frankly incapable of unaided independent living.

These and other factors may interrelate (or not ... ) in most any way, making it very difficult to claim anything that applies to all.

My point is this ... Until and unless one specifies the type(s) of outsider / outcast lifestyle(s) one seeks to support or improve there will be little 'traction' in moving out to accomplish change. I don't think there's a universal schema or approach one could target, so the most probably tractable tactic would be to focus on a particular subset of the possibilities.
 
Having watched many programmes about off grid living, 'Alaska:the last frontier', 'Alaskan bush people', 'Homestead Rescue', 'Mountain Men' etc i have seen a common theme running through these programmes, that is, every one of these communities/people, whilst doing everything they can to live offgrid/independant/self sufficient lives, at some point have to fall back on the established communities, be that having to buy or trade for staple foods, construction materials and especially medical care, so in essence, they cannot live unaided by 'normal' society.
 
Yup, that is so from what I have seen on these sort of progs...and from folk who have tried it.

But its a good rule whoever you are and wherever you go.
 
Isn't there a massive complicating factor in that the powers-that-be and a sizeable proportion of the static population in many countries are hostile to those who lead a more mobile lifestyle? This is obviously true with regard to GRT communities, but also applies to others e.g. the Peace Convoy/New Age Traveller types, as well. These folks still exist - indeed, I've been adjacent to some of them - but I don't know what label is applied to/appropriated by them these days.

In that context, I can't begin to imagine any meaningful support being offered. Quite the opposite, in fact.


skinny said:
Can it occur in an urban environment, or are fringe shanty towns the only option?
Click to expand...
I gather Detroit has seen some interesting experiments in urban farming among other things, given the massive depopulation in that city over the past couple of decades. It's not my specialist subject, but you might find that an interesting avenue to explore.
 
EnolaGaia said:
Here's what I see as the primary problem in getting started on these issues ...
Click to expand...
What a fabulous synopsis, if I may say so.

Coincidentally, I had only recently been sharing videos of the extreme homeless situation in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, etc. in the U.S.

In return, I was alerted to the situation of people living in graveyards (Philippines) and many other appalling existences.

Thought occurred... is our mainstream media - BBC, Sky News, CNN, etc. perhaps complicit here?

One obvious, current, example; is whatever controversies might be happening in the monarchy, really so important that all the abject world poverty isn't headline news?
 
Comfortably Numb said:
whatever controversies might be happening in the monarchy, really so important that all the abject world poverty isn't headline news?
Click to expand...
Amen, mate.

I'm just watching a film called Nomadland with Fran McDormand as Fern, and I see my future in Fern as much as she sees hers in Swanky.

edit to add; that's the first jolly film I've cried from for many years. Subtle art.
 
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Can it occur in an urban environment,
Click to expand...

The answer is possibly. The capital of Mongolia is set up for a high percentage in gers.

But I noticed this; in studies of demographics there was ZERO mention of the non settled.

-No one on campsites.
-No perpetual travellers. (Say, people who are GB citizens but seldom come home)
-No mention of my friend who is a member of a circus family and whose net worth is likely well over a million, (Does own property, -to rent).
-None of my friends on narrowboats (approx 15 thousand water dwellers in GB)
-Come to think of it, no people in luxury houseboats in London.

And this is before you mention the obvious ones like Homeless and obvious travellers.

So, how many are there? The number must be huge.
 
skinny said:
I'm just watching a film called Nomadland with Fran McDormand as Fern, and I see my future in Fern as much as she sees hers in Swanky.
Click to expand...

Speaking of 'van life' ... This news article from British Columbia describes an upsurge in Canadians' interest in converting vans for mobile residential use, driven by pandemic restrictions on travel. It may be that this travel-oriented trend will help foster a resurgence in the RV industry and markets as well as a renewed interest in mobile living (whether recreationally or more seriously).
‘Van life’ culture grows in B.C. as people look for pandemic-era travel options

Maxime Rico has been living in his 2014 Mercedes Sprinter for two years, splitting his time between the Yukon in summers and British Columbia in winters. He’s transformed the cargo van into a fully equipped living space with a diesel heater, and the only amenity he requires is a shower.

The 24-year-old ski patroller at Sun Peaks Resort near Kamloops, B.C., says there’s been a clear rise in newcomers to “van life”, especially among Ontarians and Quebeckers heading west to escape lockdowns in their provinces.

“There’s more and more people talking about it on social media and the trend has risen a lot,” said Rico.

“I’m really curious to see this summer how is going to look. There’s probably going to be a lot of people out here.”

People in the van life community, who live a mobile lifestyle in converted vans or trucks, say an increasing number of Canadians are experimenting with life on four wheels as a way of escaping the pandemic, and it’s driving up the value of used vans and trucks. ...
Click to expand...

FULL STORY: https://www.nelsonstar.com/news/van...-people-look-for-pandemic-era-travel-options/
 
I'm guessing this fits here.

This is all very well, but this couple sound really rather well-spoken and there is absolutely no mention made of the (clearly very large) plot of land they have their 'house on wheels' parked on.
So they use gas and store rainwater. Dunno whether that is all of their water or if they have a mains supply as well.
And they also appear to have what is quite clearly a very large solar array, though I doubt it supplies enough electricity for all of their needs.
Their 'top tips' all sound like the sorts of things they think they should be telling you (eg; I bet they don't pour their excess boiled water into a thermos flask).
And I really really doubt that they sound like the sort of people who would have constructed this themselves, and certainly not (as claimed) for £18,000 - that wouldn't even buy you the large trailer and materials for the frame of the damn thing.
I'm not buying it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-63315680
 
Trevp666 said:
I'm guessing this fits here.

This is all very well, but this couple sound really rather well-spoken and there is absolutely no mention made of the (clearly very large) plot of land they have their 'house on wheels' parked on.
So they use gas and store rainwater. Dunno whether that is all of their water or if they have a mains supply as well.
And they also appear to have what is quite clearly a very large solar array, though I doubt it supplies enough electricity for all of their needs.
Their 'top tips' all sound like the sorts of things they think they should be telling you (eg; I bet they don't pour their excess boiled water into a thermos flask).
And I really really doubt that they sound like the sort of people who would have constructed this themselves, and certainly not (as claimed) for £18,000 - that wouldn't even buy you the large trailer and materials for the frame of the damn thing.
I'm not buying it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-63315680
Click to expand...
I have actually looked into the subject of building a similar small house myself as a downsizing exercise, but it always comes down to the same things - buying an expensive plot of land and getting planning permission.
It always costs more money than they say it does.
 
Also.....broadband? I'm sure they have an internet connection.
Toilet? Are they using a chemical toilet which they have to empty or does their sewage go into a pit of some sort, along with their other dirty water.
Washing machine? Dryer? I'll be pretty damn sure that she (or he) doesn't take their clothes to the launderette, or even down to the river to bash it against a rock.
And (as you said Mytho) they must be actually on a plot of land that they have bought - you can't just park up wherever you like, so they'll have an address for mail.
The more I analyse it the less believable it is. Yeah I'm sure that there probably are people that have managed to end up existing like this, but probably after years of planning.
It's not something you can decide to do one afternoon and the following week you're parking up somewhere.
He looks about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking convention, so they would have got some sort of expert to construct this for them.
And what about the vehicle they used to tow that into position? It looks way too heavy to be towed by anything smaller than a large-sized Transit van.
 
Also, from re-watching the film....construction law in the UK prohibits you having a room with a toilet in it leading directly of a cooking area - there must be a passage between with separate ventilation, and it looks like their bathroom is through the doorway from their kitchen.....tut tut.
 
"...catching rainwater to put it on the garden..." so yeah, they must have a mains hook-up.
 
Trevp666 said:
Also, from re-watching the film....construction law in the UK prohibits you having a room with a toilet in it leading directly of a cooking area - there must be a passage between with separate ventilation, and it looks like their bathroom is through the doorway from their kitchen.....tut tut.
Click to expand...
This would be treated like a caravan rather than a permanent structure, so maybe the same rules don't apply?
 
Trevp666 said:
Also.....broadband? I'm sure they have an internet connection.
Toilet? Are they using a chemical toilet which they have to empty or does their sewage go into a pit of some sort, along with their other dirty water.
Washing machine? Dryer? I'll be pretty damn sure that she (or he) doesn't take their clothes to the launderette, or even down to the river to bash it against a rock.
And (as you said Mytho) they must be actually on a plot of land that they have bought - you can't just park up wherever you like, so they'll have an address for mail.
The more I analyse it the less believable it is. Yeah I'm sure that there probably are people that have managed to end up existing like this, but probably after years of planning.
It's not something you can decide to do one afternoon and the following week you're parking up somewhere.
He looks about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking convention, so they would have got some sort of expert to construct this for them.
And what about the vehicle they used to tow that into position? It looks way too heavy to be towed by anything smaller than a large-sized Transit van.
Click to expand...
This kind of thing is a lot easier to do in America, Canada and Australia, where land is more available and is cheaper - and the building rules aren't as strict (except in US cities, which have zoning laws for planning).
Over here, such a building can only be allowed if it is on wheels. This couple have probably built it on land owned by their family, perhaps as part of a farm. There are few neighbours to object to it.
 
By co-incidence, I have just been watching a video Rich D Hall posted recently and he has been working towards going off grid and has posted some videos. I have to confess I am flipping impressed. Also, either all that wood sawing is good for him or he's been working out.

https://www.richplanet.net/richp_genre.php?ref=289&part=1&gen=99

Ignore the title, this section of the video is an update on the off grid stuff.

https://www.richplanet.net/richp_genre.php?ref=299&part=2&gen=99

If he ever decided to use his powers for good, he'd be dangerous.
 
Mythopoeika said:
This kind of thing is a lot easier to do in America, Canada and Australia, where land is more available and is cheaper - and the building rules aren't as strict (except in US cities, which have zoning laws for planning).
Over here, such a building can only be allowed if it is on wheels. This couple have probably built it on land owned by their family, perhaps as part of a farm. There are few neighbours to object to it.
Click to expand...
The US has some kind of zoning laws in place for all land. The problem, especially in rural and poor areas - and these coincide a lot - is that there is not good enforcement by the authorities.

Crazy, poor, nasty off-grid communities
I have written on the FMB somewhere that I have driven by two off-grid communities out in the Arizona desert, and I would not want to antagonize them. Some of the members seemed to me to have mental problems, be aggressive, are anti-establishment from the spray paint markings on the walls, etc. I feel sorry for the children there.

Crafty and rich off-grid communities
My favorite ex-husband (hey, he is :) ) lives off-grid in a pretty high-end, small, isolated community in the Colorado mountains. Everyone is independent in power and communications, and they share a communal lake for water. All the homes are in the $500k-$1.5 million range, I am guessing. I vaguely recall he had a satellite phone before the community was able to get in more conventional service. This is definately not an outlaw community.
 
skinny said:
Stats for the US in terms of rising numbers of official homeless are dramatic. One could predict that the numbers are conservative because it is hard to count mobile humans accurately. The US is / has been a good barometer for social change across other 'advanced' western states.

The places people are going are pretty obvious - dry and warm for the most part (see statmap below). New York State is one of the outliers in this regard. This article gives some insights into the state of affairs in the US.
https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/why-are-so-many-people-homeless/

Homelessness_statistics_by_state%2C_United_States_Interagency_Council_on_Homelessness_%282019%29.png

Source: United States Interagency Council on Homelessness - https://www.usich.gov/tools-for-action/map/#fn[]=1400&fn[]=2800&fn[]=6200&fn[]=10000&fn[]=13200 via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

A country like Australia would similarly be a good place to find an off-grid domain given the vast arid landscape and low population. A country like England would be a much tougher proposition - high-density population and limited landscape and hard weather in winter.

Any of our members and readers ever had to deal with homelessness for an extended period? I haven't, but I regularly take the opportunity to drive out into the land and live on the earth for as long as my sedentary job and lifestyle allow. I'd find transition to that as a living mode impossibly difficult all the same. I don't mind sleeping on the ground, but my medical issues would be one of the hardest of needs to maintain. Fuel and upkeep for the vehicle would also be difficult/impossible. I reckon I could grow my own food and stockpile resources if I were left to my own devices.

That's just dreaming though. I am NOT an advocate for homelessness, but I believe in off-grid living as a normal mode for the future of our societies. The realities for those on the outer must be horrendous. Exposure to the elements, not to mention the human predators that feed on the vulnerable, all these things like a house and a job and a cop around the corner we take for granted are far more than creature comforts. Infrastructure requires regulated upkeep. I just don't think the capitalist model can be sustained or can sustain the needs of a burgeoning outcast class. We need solutions that are less dollar-dependent and more inclusive of rational, skilled and selfless contributors. There's the rub. Can it be achieved without the toxic bureaucracy?

Most solutions-based intervention involves prevention and costs tons of someone else's money. I propose that the bird has flown and we need now to deal with the emerging reality of permanent domains supporting large populations of mobile people. Those are the places that require infrastructure and attention. If hollywood is to be believed, the swarm effect will likely see those places overrun by packs of zombies, so more guns and ammo are urgently required. In reality, these domains are filling with ordinary ex-citizens who need support in many ways.

Can it occur in an urban environment, or are fringe shanty towns the only option? I don't know.
Click to expand...
You sleep on the ground in Oz? Respect my man.
 
skinny said:
Yeah I go camping a lot. Swagman. Nothing unusual or rigorous about throwing down a canvas bag and climbing in. Easy peasy. I recommend it.
Click to expand...
In the Peak District- ok. But Australia where all flora and fauna is out to kill you? I'd rather camp out in Moss Side in Manchester.
 
Floyd1 said:
In the Peak District- ok. But Australia where all flora and fauna is out to kill you? I'd rather camp out in Moss Side in Manchester.
Click to expand...
Oh that. I ingest an awfully large amount of various intoxicants, so anything that sucks my blood will wake up hungover tomorrow. And the stench of my boots and mouth breath are the ultimate repellants. I’m covered.
 
skinny said:
Oh that. I ingest an awfully large amount of various intoxicants, so anything that sucks my blood will wake up hungover tomorrow. And the stench of my boots and mouth breath are the ultimate repellants. I’m covered.
Click to expand...
Fair one.
 
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