OOPArts: Out Of Place Artefacts & Archaeological Erratics

[blessmycottonsocks]

"Mysterious Piece Of Sophisticated Technology Could Rewrite History – Scientists Are Not Sure What They Are Dealing With

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/myste...ure-what-they-are-dealing-with/#ixzz3xQX2xmPF

Researchers are still not sure what kind of extraordinary object they are dealing with…

This peculiar object created 5,000 years ago appears to be part of a component of an ancient unknown advanced mechanism.

In January 1936, a strange disk was unearthed at the plateau edge of North Saqqara, approximately 1.7 km north of Djoser’s Step Pyramid in Egypt

The discovery of the mysterious prehistoric artifact, that many considered as a device, was made in the so-called Mastaba of Sabu (Tomb 3111, c. 3100-3000 BC) by a famous, British Egyptologist Walter Bryan Emery (1902-1971).

Sabu was the son of Pharaoh Aneddzhiba (fifth ruler of the first dynasty of ancient Egypt) and a high official or administrator of a town or province possibly called “Star of the family of Horus”.

The burial chamber had no stairway and its superstructure was completely filled with sand and stone vessels, flint knives, arrows, few copper tools and the most interesting schist bowl in fragments.

The unearthed device named the Schist Disk, is approximately 61 cm in diameter (24 inches), one cm thick, and 10.6 cm (4.2 inches) in the center.

It was manufactured by unknown an means from this very fragile and delicate material requiring very tedious carving–the production of which would confound many craftsmen even today.

Now many important questions arise.

What was the original function of the device?

Scientists do not think the object is a wheel, because the wheel appeared in Egypt 1500 BC, during the 18th Dynasty.

If the Schist Disk is in fact a wheel it would mean ancient Egyptians possessed knowledge of the wheel about 3000 BC during the time of the first dynasty! This would require Egyptologists to re-write some history books.

If the Schist Disk is not a wheel, nor modeled after the wheel, what is it?

Some scientists suggest that the fragile nature of such an intricately carved stone object greatly limits is practical usage and suggests a purely ornamental function, being of a religious or other such ritualistic purpose.

Of course, some believe that this subject served another purpose, just to be able to drive foot oil lamp.

However, critics of this theory argue that the three-blade ceremonial lamp hardly possible, because of the shape and curvature of its petals, which seems to suggest a function, not just decoration.

Did ancient Egyptians have technology far beyond the current?

There is one option that is even more challenging, namely that we are dealing with some kind of unknown advanced ancient technology. Is it possible ancient Egyptians had technology far beyond the current?

Egyptologist Cyril Aldred reached the conclusion that, independently of what the object was used for or what it represented, its design was without a doubt, a copy of a previous, much older metallic object.

Why did the ancient Egyptians bother to design an object with such a complex structure more than 5,000 years ago?

How could a culture who typically used chisels to shape rock have mastered a technique to work such a delicate material to this extraordinary level?

Why would ancient Egyptians invest the time and skills needed to create this object unless it served a very important, specific purpose?"

Further information"
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/06/the-schist-disc-a-sceptic-speaks/

Not apparently listed by / debunked by...
http://www.badarchaeology.com

Recent video here exploring the possibility that the Sabu disk was a sort of plunger valve for drawing water up from a reservoir.
Impressed that the guy 3D printed a scale replica, but I'm far from convinced:

 

[Amergin]

Recent video here exploring the possibility that the Sabu disk was a sort of plunger valve for drawing water up from a reservoir.
Impressed that the guy 3D printed a scale replica, but I'm far from convinced:

I agree with your reservations.
It looks like it’s making heavy weather of emptying the beaker.

 

[maximus otter]

"Mysterious Piece Of Sophisticated Technology Could Rewrite History – Scientists Are Not Sure What They Are Dealing With

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/myste...ure-what-they-are-dealing-with/#ixzz3xQX2xmPF

Researchers are still not sure what kind of extraordinary object they are dealing with…

This peculiar object created 5,000 years ago appears to be part of a component of an ancient unknown advanced mechanism.

In January 1936, a strange disk was unearthed at the plateau edge of North Saqqara, approximately 1.7 km north of Djoser’s Step Pyramid in Egypt

The discovery of the mysterious prehistoric artifact, that many considered as a device, was made in the so-called Mastaba of Sabu (Tomb 3111, c. 3100-3000 BC) by a famous, British Egyptologist Walter Bryan Emery (1902-1971).

Sabu was the son of Pharaoh Aneddzhiba (fifth ruler of the first dynasty of ancient Egypt) and a high official or administrator of a town or province possibly called “Star of the family of Horus”.

The burial chamber had no stairway and its superstructure was completely filled with sand and stone vessels, flint knives, arrows, few copper tools and the most interesting schist bowl in fragments.

The unearthed device named the Schist Disk, is approximately 61 cm in diameter (24 inches), one cm thick, and 10.6 cm (4.2 inches) in the center.

It was manufactured by unknown an means from this very fragile and delicate material requiring very tedious carving–the production of which would confound many craftsmen even today.

Now many important questions arise.

What was the original function of the device?

Scientists do not think the object is a wheel, because the wheel appeared in Egypt 1500 BC, during the 18th Dynasty.

If the Schist Disk is in fact a wheel it would mean ancient Egyptians possessed knowledge of the wheel about 3000 BC during the time of the first dynasty! This would require Egyptologists to re-write some history books.

If the Schist Disk is not a wheel, nor modeled after the wheel, what is it?

Some scientists suggest that the fragile nature of such an intricately carved stone object greatly limits is practical usage and suggests a purely ornamental function, being of a religious or other such ritualistic purpose.

Of course, some believe that this subject served another purpose, just to be able to drive foot oil lamp.

However, critics of this theory argue that the three-blade ceremonial lamp hardly possible, because of the shape and curvature of its petals, which seems to suggest a function, not just decoration.

Did ancient Egyptians have technology far beyond the current?

There is one option that is even more challenging, namely that we are dealing with some kind of unknown advanced ancient technology. Is it possible ancient Egyptians had technology far beyond the current?

Egyptologist Cyril Aldred reached the conclusion that, independently of what the object was used for or what it represented, its design was without a doubt, a copy of a previous, much older metallic object.

Why did the ancient Egyptians bother to design an object with such a complex structure more than 5,000 years ago?

How could a culture who typically used chisels to shape rock have mastered a technique to work such a delicate material to this extraordinary level?

Why would ancient Egyptians invest the time and skills needed to create this object unless it served a very important, specific purpose?"

Further information"
http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/07/06/the-schist-disc-a-sceptic-speaks/

Not apparently listed by / debunked by...
http://www.badarchaeology.com

“Schist (/ʃɪst/ shist) is a medium-grained metamorphic rock showing pronounced schistosity. This means that the rock is composed of mineral grains easily seen with a low-power hand lens, oriented in such a way that the rock is easily split into thin flakes or plates.

Schist bedrock can pose a challenge for civil engineering because of its pronounced planes of weakness.

The word schist is derived ultimately from the Greek word σχίζειν (schízein), meaning "to split",which refers to the ease with which schists can be split along the plane in which the platy minerals lie.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schist

It’s like slate: not a material l’d choose for a hard industrial function such as a plunger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schist

maximus otter

 

[Nosmo King]

Recent video here exploring the possibility that the Sabu disk was a sort of plunger valve for drawing water up from a reservoir.
Impressed that the guy 3D printed a scale replica, but I'm far from convinced:

Doesn't seem very efficient, maybe if leather flaps were added to cover the holes on the upward motion it would work a lot better

 

[Mythopoeika]

“Schist (/ʃɪst/ shist) is a medium-grained metamorphic rock showing pronounced schistosity. This means that the rock is composed of mineral grains easily seen with a low-power hand lens, oriented in such a way that the rock is easily split into thin flakes or plates.

Schist bedrock can pose a challenge for civil engineering because of its pronounced planes of weakness.

The word schist is derived ultimately from the Greek word σχίζειν (schízein), meaning "to split",which refers to the ease with which schists can be split along the plane in which the platy minerals lie.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schist

It’s like slate: not a material l’d choose for a hard industrial function such as a plunger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schist

maximus otter

Yes, it's not a good material to use. It's schist.
I'm amazed that it survived intact for so long.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Doesn't seem very efficient, maybe if leather flaps were added to cover the holes on the upward motion it would work a lot better

Yes. That would work.

 

[Floyd]

For mashing beer? The Egyptians loved a beer.

 

[Trevp666]

I thought the Egyptians of old (you know, the ones that built the pyramids assuming aliens didn't do it) liked a type of 'mead' due to having lots of honey?

 

[Nosmo King]

I thought the Egyptians of old (you know, the ones that built the pyramids assuming aliens didn't do it) liked a type of 'mead' due to having lots of honey?

It was probably a class thing, ale for the hoi polloi, mead for the Pharoahs and priests

 

[Floyd]

I thought the Egyptians of old (you know, the ones that built the pyramids assuming aliens didn't do it) liked a type of 'mead' due to having lots of honey?

Yes, I think it was certainly more of a 'meal' type thing.

 

[Floyd]

It was probably a class thing, ale for the hoi polloi, mead for the Pharoahs and priests

And wine for the upper classes as well.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

The Agate seal of Pylos got a mention in today's Quora.
The 3,500 year old artefact is described as the single best work of glyptic art ever recovered from the Aegean Bronze Age.
At just 1.3 inches wide, the level of detail of the 3D effect warrior plunging his sword into his victim's neck, requires photo-microscopy to see clearly and almost beggars belief.
Did whoever created the masterpiece have access to some form of magnifiying glass?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos_Combat_Agate

 

[Mythopoeika]

The Agate seal of Pylos got a mention in today's Quora.
The 3,500 year old artefact is described as the single best work of glyptic art ever recovered from the Aegean Bronze Age.
At just 1.3 inches wide, the level of detail of the 3D effect warrior plunging his sword into his victim's neck, requires photo-microscopy to see clearly and almost beggars belief.
Did whoever created the masterpiece have access to some form of magnifiying glass?

View attachment 48912
View attachment 48913

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos_Combat_Agate

Lumps of clear crystal were available that could be used as magnifiers.
Also, maybe the artist was very short sighted.

 

[Trevp666]

Or I guess it is possible that some kind of 'reducing' mechanism was used to create a copy of a larger design onto the smaller seal.
Much like the 'Sketch-a-graph' does, but with sharp things instead of pencils.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Or I guess it is possible that some kind of 'reducing' mechanism was used to create a copy of a larger design onto the smaller seal.
Much like the 'Sketch-a-graph' does, but with sharp things instead of pencils.

If an artist's or sculptor's pantograph tool were in use 3,500 years ago, that would be as much of an OOPART as the finished artwork!

 

[Mungoman]

Agate has a hardness of 7 on the Mohs scale of hardness, which would mean that a diamond or sapphire (corundum) was used to engrave the Seal of Pylos...which would mean that to create a lense of rock crystal, once again, to aid in the engraving of the seal, it would involve corundum or diamond.

To create an edge on sapphire, you would need a diamond.

Then there is the technical effort involved to dress the stone after the rough engraving - It really blows my mind considering that we're talking bronze age technology here.

 

[EnolaGaia]

If an artist's or sculptor's pantograph tool were in use 3,500 years ago, that would be as much of an OOPART as the finished artwork!

Just for the record ...

Polymath and all-round engineering genius Hero (aka Heron) of Alexandria (1st century BCE) described pantographs in his Mechanics. This does not mean he's credited with inventing or first noting them. It's unclear whether he was describing something that already had a history and / or how far back before him that history extended.

 

[Cochise]

The Agate seal of Pylos got a mention in today's Quora.
The 3,500 year old artefact is described as the single best work of glyptic art ever recovered from the Aegean Bronze Age.
At just 1.3 inches wide, the level of detail of the 3D effect warrior plunging his sword into his victim's neck, requires photo-microscopy to see clearly and almost beggars belief.
Did whoever created the masterpiece have access to some form of magnifiying glass?

View attachment 48912
View attachment 48913

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylos_Combat_Agate

Whatever. stunning craftsmanship that must have been the work of years. Doubt they'll find anything as good dated to 2021.

 

[Ermintruder]

I am utterly-fascinated by the potential OOPART inclusion within the NWA869 meteorite, as referenced in the March 2022 edition of Fortean Times....

(Images courtesy of https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-science-space/meteorite-0015376)

How can this be anything other than some form of manufactured object that is of vast age, which has fallen from space?

How could this possibly be a natural cosmological mineral accretion?

 

[GNC]

Um, why would it be? A bubble in the stone, or part of it was different matter and fell out?

 

[Sid]

Um, why would it be? A bubble in the stone, or part of it was different matter and fell out?

Probably some object (unknown) was within it, then somehow - it just fell out?

 

[GNC]

Probably some object (unknown) was within it, then somehow - it just fell out?

Yeah, could have been something with a lower heat threshold than the rest of the meteorite and it just burned up or something.

 

[Sid]

Yeah, could have been something with a lower heat threshold than the rest of the meteorite and it just burned up or something.

Exactly! Maybe a different kind of material inclusion that couldn't hold it's structure (heat-wise).

 

[Ermintruder]

Exactly! Maybe a different kind of material inclusion that couldn't hold it's structure (heat-wise).

This inclusion is not a conventional meteoric mineral....it looks to be a 6mm non-ferrous metallic cylinder. As to whether it is the product of random forces and agglomerations in deep space, or something else a lot-more interesting: clearly that is the question.

From https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-science-space/meteorite-0015376

"The meteorite and its strange inclusion have been examined both microscopically and spectroscopically by a contact at the University of East Anglia. The preliminary results indicate that the silver cylinder is not composed of any of the usual accessory minerals found in meteorites. Further examination is scheduled"

 

[Mungoman]

This inclusion is not a conventional meteoric mineral....it looks to be a 6mm non-ferrous metallic cylinder. As to whether it is the product of random forces and agglomerations in deep space, or something else a lot-more interesting: clearly that is the question.

From https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-science-space/meteorite-0015376

It is an inclusion, and not part of the parent material...so the object in Question was already formed before the meteor was.

This is far out...

 

[Amergin]

Just to comment specifically on the shape: The problem with a limited set of photos is that you just cannot infer the true shape from the restricted angle that the two photographs were taken. A third photo in the article with the meteorite rotated shows that the feature is much more irregular and maybe larger in shape. The cylindrical form is less convincing and it appears to be caused by one raised / worn / burnished edge of a rounded pit or crater, common in these sorts of meteorites. See below:

 

[Ermintruder]

It is an inclusion, and not part of the parent material

And, crucially, it is not sibling material: a canonical precept of cosmology is of course the intercepting aggregation of smaller particulate to ultimately form larger/attractive/massive bodies.

For this meteorite to have contained an elemental metallic fragment of such (relatively) large dimensions, something very unusual must have occured (and that's even just considering this from a non-optimistic/reductionist perspective).

A third photo in the article with the meteorite rotated shows that the feature is much more irregular and maybe larger in shape

I hadn't noticed that: you make a fair point.

But when you say

The cylindrical form is less convincing and it appears to be caused by one raised / worn / burnished edge of a rounded pit or crater, common in these sorts of meteorites.

.....is your statement actually correct? If so, this poses us a case of the fundamental problem associated with all reported incidents, that are presented in a summarised popular science style.

I'm now concerned that you may well be an expert on these matters, and have a much-wider knowledge that is both comprehensive and accurate. Thus authoritatively-deflating my/our balloons of expectant over-interpretation....

Are our interests and expectations then being lifted disproportionately by the 'mainstream' (former fringe) online reports, and by Fortean Times (albeit in good faith)? I had understood that elemental metals (for example, famously, meteroric iron) was present in a homogenised / particulate form, or even as an extractable compound subcomponent: but not as patent 'nuggets' like this.

If you are really informed about this subject (and I find myself both hoping that you are, and aren't): what's your interpretation of the referenced tiny 'strike' impact damage on the purportedly-silver pseudo-cylinder? Does this give any kinetic 'hallmarked' credibility to the metalliod inclusion having been hit, in space, by a fragment of dust travelling at incredible velocity? Thus (if it's significance in context is presented purposely-so) signalling that the atmospheric entry path of the meteorite was not sufficiently-fast or steep to achieve the melting-point of the inclusion (the implication being that it was a valid fingerprint of provenance supporting its putative manufactured versus emergent physicality).

 

[Sid]

And, crucially, it is not sibling material: a canonical precept of cosmology is of course the intercepting aggregation of smaller particulate to ultimately form larger/attractive/massive bodies.

For this meteorite to have contained an elemental metallic fragment of such (relatively) large dimensions, something very unusual must have occured (and that's even just considering this from a non-optimistic/reductionist perspective).


I hadn't noticed that: you make a fair point.

But when you say

.....is your statement actually correct? If so, this poses us a case of the fundamental problem associated with all reported incidents, that are presented in a summarised popular science style.

I'm now concerned that you may well be an expert on these matters, and have a much-wider knowledge that is both comprehensive and accurate. Thus authoritatively-deflating my/our balloons of expectant over-interpretation....

Are our interests and expectations then being lifted disproportionately by the 'mainstream' (former fringe) online reports, and by Fortean Times (albeit in good faith)? I had understood that elemental metals (for example, famously, meteroric iron) was present in a homogenised / particulate form, or even as an extractable compound subcomponent: but not as patent 'nuggets' like this.

If you are really informed about this subject (and I find myself both hoping that you are, and aren't): what's your interpretation of the referenced tiny 'strike' impact damage on the purportedly-silver pseudo-cylinder? Does this give any kinetic 'hallmarked' credibility to the metalliod inclusion having been hit, in space, by a fragment of dust travelling at incredible velocity? Thus (if it's significance in context is presented purposely-so) signalling that the atmospheric entry path of the meteorite was not sufficiently-fast or steep to achieve the melting-point of the inclusion (the implication being that it was a valid fingerprint of provenance supporting its putative manufactured versus emergent physicality).

Also - does "Silver" mean Silver, or just silver-like in colour?

 

[Amergin]

Thanks for your comprehensive response. I am a physicist and astronomer by trade, but I don’t have any specialist knowledge of meteorites. However I have been to a number of conference talks and I have read about the subject more generally.
Lots of the characteristics that are typical of metallic meteorites appear to be evident on this one. The shape of the edge and the large pit look very classic to me. And the little micro crater I don’t see is anything unusual. These features form as the material melts and ablates. In the case of the little micro pit, one possibility is that a small inclusion vaporised explosively as the meteorite heated during entry into the atmosphere. Below I give a few more examples of meteorites that show very similar features:

 

[Kondoru]

Oh those are pretty.

Relative wanted a meteorite for Xmas one year; I got him something that looked like that.

As for the metal, is there such a thing as Native Iron?