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Orang Pendek / Orang Dalam / Sedapa [South-East Asia]

Yes, but the logging isn't being done just to sell the trees. The cleared land is used for agriculture, and I don't mean "family farms" here. Some giant corporation will use it for some kind of plantation--coffee, pepper, sugar, etc. That's what they're doing with the Amazon rainforest, too. It's gotten so that anyone who cares what happens to our planet has to be really alert and know the source of everything they buy.
 
Wildlife, lots of the logging is done to make the trees into furnature. Yes you are right about the deforrestation for such things as plantations but please be aware that the furnature you buy could be from these very forrests.

http://www.wri.org/press/indoforest.html

Massive expansion in the plywood, pulp and paper industries over the last 20 years means that demand for wood fiber now exceeds legal supplies by as much as 40 million cubic meters annually. Many industry leaders have acknowledged their dependence on illegally cut wood, which accounted for as much as 65 percent of the supply in 2000.
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This timber that is cut down is sent to countries like the USA and UK where it is turned into all sorts of things. Its ashame these global companies cared more about their wallets than the environment. :(

Look at this webpage to see how bad it has got in a short ammount of time:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=9277
 
Save the trees!

May I suggest that all exotic hardwoods should be avoided no matter the source. They tend to be slow growers and would not mature properly to be useful within a person's lifetime. Buy antique furniture if you must have teak, mahogany etc.
 
To point out just how closely we are associated with these "animals"...'orang putih' means white man.
As for furniture, the more you spend the more you kill, cheap chipboard for me!!!
 
Evolved said:
This timber that is cut down is sent to countries like the USA and UK where it is turned into all sorts of things. Its ashame these global companies cared more about their wallets than the environment. :(
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So, are you suggesting that Dubya is not primarily concerned about forest fires when he proposes more logging in American forests?

Shock Horror!
 
Well in one way he is right, there wont be any forrest fires if there is no trees. :rolleyes:
On the other hand hes destroying his countries ecosystem, but Im pretty sure thats the least of our worried when it comes to George Dubya Bush, At the rate hes going there will be no life left on the planet to enjoy the trees, be it an Orang Pendek or a human with a new Computer desk.
 
rynner said:
So, are you suggesting that Dubya is not primarily concerned about forest fires when he proposes more logging in American forests?

Shock Horror!
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Actually, NONE of the press here could report that story
with a straight face! Which means GWB will be holding it
against them at some future event... theres just no end to
our entertainment in the US! ;)

TVgeek
- speaking of Orang Pendek: DON'T get me started on the Anna Nicole show!
 
I remember a suspected "giant sloth" hair sample being taken several years ago. There was a believer and a skeptic trailing it through the jungles of South America. I think Discovery Channel sponsored the "hunt".

At the time, the hair was considered "unidentifiable".
Of course, at the end of the program, someoe came on and said: (IIRC) just because it didn't match a known animal didn't mean it was from an "extinct" sloth!

Just what I'd come to expect from the Discovery Channel!

TVgeek
 
man of the forest search

Well- a least It looks as though their sticking with this one..lets hope if this sample turns heads that they get all the funding needed to settle the matter once and for all. It would be cool to find a living upright walking primate in the wild :eek!!!!:
 
Yeti/Orang Pendek in Sumatra

I just saw an interview with Adam davies on BBC news 24 and he did seem rather confident that this was some kind of unknown species of Primate and that scientific observation of the hair sample would prove this.

They would need rather a lot of footprints to tell if it is walking upright though.

If they find the Yeti in Sumatra think of the credibility this gives to all the other wordwide sightings. Some are certainly fakes but perhaps not all.

Will this story fade into the ether..... or will the yeti emerge from it.
 
re: chriswsm

that's cool you saw that interview. and it sound promising alright! I hope it does not end up in the," ether". either, cause so many of these stories do (like I know you Know)." I hate when that happens !when It seems their so close to a major find, It would cause a stir though, if its found ,thats for sure!
 
Orang Dalam - a second SE Asian cryptid hominoid?

News link from the FT main page: http://www.bangkokpost.net/travel/mysterious3.html

This is clearly a different creature from the Orang Pendek, as they are human size or larger (some reports even Bigfoot size) and have black rather than red hair. Also some reports suggest a creature closer to a human in form than to the bipedal ape most people think the Orang Pendek is - more similar to the Alma/Kaptar of southern Russia and Mongolia. A surviving "Java Man" (Homo erectus)?

Interestingly the description of Orang Dalam sounds very similar to older (1920s/30s) descriptions of the Sedapa (as recorded in Heuvelmans's "On The Track of Unknown Animals"), which he considered the same thing as Orang Pendek. However, unlike the modern Orang Pendek (reddish hair, 3-4ft tall) the older OP/Sedapa reports were of a blackish-haired humanoid 5ft or taller, and with very long hair on its head (like no other primate except humans).

Also the sketch in the news article is (I think, not having the book on hand) one which was also printed in "On The Track...".

The evidence seems to point IMHO to 2 cryptid apes/hominoids in SE Asia - the Orang Pendek of more recent reports, 3-4ft tall and covered in red hair, and the Orang Dalam (= older reports of Sedapa/Orang Pendek), 5-6ft tall and with black hair, growing to a very long length on the head much like that of a straight-haired human. Any thoughts?
 
The problem with Adam Davies' interview on the BBC & Channel 5 is that he was talking about the orang pendek as being 'the missing link' - it is fairly obvious that he doesn't understand what is meant by the term 'missing link'.

I don't say this to undermine him - we need far more people like him who get off their backsides and get out there looking for cryptids, but they *do* need to be more careful when talking to the media.

The hair samples they collected did not contain follicles or skin, and therefore no DNA can be retrieved - the comparison that was carried out by the hair expert came back as 'no known species', which was rather predictable - this unfortunately does not prove the existence of the orang pendek - Davies seemed to think that it would when I spoke to him at uncon 2002 - I'm afraid that he is going to be dissapointed.

As for the footprint plaster cast, well there are a couple of problems with it (I have seen the actual cast up close) - the first is that there are no dermal ridges (Davies didn't know what a dermal ridge was), however footprints don't always reveal dermals - there had been a fair amount of rain in the area, which could have damaged the print before Davies got to it - the print itself was actually covered by leaves, which is probably the only reason that this single print was preserved.

The second problem is that Davies used plaster or paris to make the cast - this is a dreadful way to cast a print, as it is too flaky - and doesn't reproduce much detail - if anyone is thinking of doing this, please use dental compound.

Again, I don't want to sound as if I am running Davies' down - his talk was very enthusiastic, and went about looking for this creature in what I think is exactly the right way to do it - the BFRO could learn a thing or two from him.

Paul
 
I agree on a few points but differ on some also... I was at Uncon too and similarly am happy that at least there are some people out there working in the field than sitting at home hypothesising, more people of that ilk are required if any, albeit small, steps forward are to be made.

The main things i seem to remember from talking to the other member of the team were that they did profess to be no experts, simply people willing to go into the field and return with whatever evidence they could, leaving the analysis up to the "scientists.." a view that seems to be concreted in teh interviews i have read of them since, they seem to be pretty objective about their approach and subsequent "results.." So i think i can let them off for not knowing the ins-and-outs of the correct technical terms, dermal ridges etc..

I do agree tho that the "missing link" term is misplaced, more a continuation of evidence towards an unknown species of ape, one which is steadily regressing further into the jungles of the area from the chronic deforestation.

With respects to the hair tho, I do remember them saying that by process of elimination they were cross referencing the hair against samples obtained of those known to be in the area. Apparently under microscopic analysis each creature has its own distinct signature marks and is such a simple process of elimination so if the hair does return as unique they know its non of the known species in the area. I read in their recent release a few weeks back that it wasnt yet confirmed but was definately primate.

I dont know - i suppose until a body is found - a rare thing even for known animals - no one will ever be sure.

Im just happy that some further possible evidence has been found to further the story.. Suppose that will have to do in the meantime..

Dont wish to appear to be defending or knocking, just think theres a little more to this story which we diont yet know..

Curious....
 
Absolutely - Adam and his friends never claimed to be experts - I would agree with that - I don't think it would be unfair to call them 'enthusiastic amatures'

I wholeheartedly agree with you about it being nice to know that there are some people that are doing some real research out there and trying to find these creatures.

who knows - after my (bound to be sucessful) field trip to the pacific north west next spring, I might just be asked to talk at uncon 2004 ! ;)

Paul
 
Orang Pendek proof?
Me and my Yeti

A TEAM of part-time explorers may have proved the existence of a Yeti-like creature on a tropical jungle island.

Tests by experts at Cambridge University and in Australia have shown that hairs and a footprint found by the Indiana Joneses from Stockport and Macclesfield do not belong to any known species.

The explorers were searching for the mythical Orang Pendek - also known as the Sumatran Yeti. A scientific paper on their amazing discovery will soon be published.

Tales of a half-ape, half-man-like creature in the rainforest are part of the folklore of tribespeople on Sumatra in Indonesia but, despite many sightings by locals and Western scientists, its existence has never been proved.

World-renowned hair expert Dr Hans Brunner has spent 18 months analysing the DNA - and he has concluded that they match no known animal.

'Mythical'

Cambridge University primatologist Dr David Chivers has confirmed his findings and the two men are about to publish a paper on the subject.

The Orang Pendek is said to be about 5ft tall, walks upright and is a chocolate brown or orange in colour.

According to folklore, it has incredible strength and has its own language.

The expedition, in September 2001, was led by internet project manager Adam Davies, from Bramhall, with Keith Townley, from Macclesfield, and Adam Sanderson, from Newcastle.

Mr Davies, 34, said: "Hans Brunner and David Chivers confirmed it's an unknown primate.

"People describe the Orang Pendek as being quite small but very strong and stocky - and eye-witnesses all talk of a primate which walks upright. It's a very exciting discovery."

Dr Chivers, vice-chairman of conservation group Flora and Fauna International, said: "We are still hoping to get a photograph or find a carcass, but Adam and his mates found hard evidence.

"Dr Brunner has analysed the hairs and they are not like anything we know.

"The footprints I have looked at are unique. It has something in common with the apes, gibbons and humans, but it is different. Local people shot one once, but because it was so like a human they were embarrassed and buried it and it couldn't be found again."

Mr Davies, who has just returned from an expedition to Mongolia, is now planning a trip to the Amazon in South America to search for another so-called mythical creature - a 20ft tall giant sloth.
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Just think, if mankind hadnt raped indonisia of its wood resource and reduced the rain forest so considerably we would probably have had no chance of finding proof of this talkative orange ape.

Finding it may provide the means to stop further deforestation.

Wonder if its lingual abilities stretch as far as understanding "OOK! STOP Mr Pendek, OOK! we need you as environmental ambassador for this region OOK!"

It will be a better paid job than his usual Librarian role.
 
That Sumatran expedition and the Cigau and/or Pendek hair sa

Has there been any follow up on the expedition to Sumatra to look for the 2 cryptids the Cigau (cat/hyena thing) and Orang Pendek (small hominid) which was reported in a recent FT?

The hair samples that they found (originally thinking them to be possible Orang Pendek hairs) in fact turned out to be feline, but did not turn out to match any known feline in Sumatra (except, i think, for one species which the scientists involved had not got round to testing it against). Were the final results of the DNA testing released?

Also are there any other good witness reports of the Cigau? It sounds like a very interesting and lesser known cryptid...

edit: the article is on the FT website here: http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/182_orang1.shtml
 
also i'm not sure if these are the same people, or a different Orang-Pendek-hair-seeking expedition...
 
Tracking down the 'jungle yeti'

By David Green
BBC News Online, Manchester


Two amateur explorers hope to prove the existence of the mythical "jungle yeti" by capturing the creature on film.

Adam Davies, of Bramhall, Greater Manchester, and Andrew Sanderson, of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, are travelling to Sumatra in Indonesia to hunt it down.

Three years ago, the pair found a footprint and hairs which, when analysed by scientists, did not match any known species.

They believe it is evidence the orang pendek, as it is called, does exist.

The creature - also known as the Little Man of the Forest - was first chronicled by the explorer Marco Polo in 1292 during his travels in Asia.

Although widely believed to exist by islanders, the creature has been dismissed by most scientists as a myth, similar to the Himalayan yeti or the Loch Ness Monster.

The orang pendek - which is reputed to be related to the orang-utan - is said to measure up to 5ft (1.5m) tall and walk like a man.

Most alleged sightings have taken place in the areas of Mount Tujuh and Mount Kerinci in the west of the island, where the two explorers made their discovery in 2001.

The footprint and two red-brown hairs were analysed by Dr Hans Brunner, who helped clear Lindy Chamberlain of murdering her baby daughter in Australia in the 1980s after she claimed it had been killed by a dingo.

He said they were not from a known species, raising speculation that they might just be evidence of the orang pendek's existence.

"What we want to do now is capture it on film," said Mr Davies, who spends his holidays hunting down mythical creatures.

"I appreciate it is like looking for a needle in a haystack, but I'm determined to give it a good go."

"We've proved it exists organically and we're delighted about that," he claimed

"The hairs are organic proof. Dr Brunner said they were hairs from an unknown species of primate and that was backed up by a primatologist in Cambridge University who said the prints were also a primate's.

"We're going to publish a scientific paper shortly based on years of research, not only by us but by [conservation group] Fauna and Flora International who have worked out there in Sumatra for many years."

But the future of the orang pendek - if it exists - is threatened by illegal logging which is destroying the jungle habitat, but which many Sumatrans see as their only way of making a living.

Adam hopes that proving the creature's existence will bring the eyes of the world on the island and make the orang pendek a protected species.

"Capturing it on film will light people's imaginations and arouse interest. That's important because that's an area which is under extreme environmental pressure and it will help that area to be preserved.

"But I would just love to see it. Now I know it definitely exists I want to give it a damn good shout at finding it."

The pair's hunt for the orang pendek is just one of many crypto-zoology expeditions they have been on.

Last year, they searched in vain for the Allghoi Khorkhoi - the Mongolian death worm - in the Gobi desert and were arrested on suspicion of being Chinese spies, before being released.

In 1998 and 2000 they searched - again, in vain - for the Mokele M'embe - a dinosaur rumoured to live in the Congo.

"That was our most dangerous trip," remembers Adam. "There was a civil war going on and rocket launchers at the airport in Kinshasa."

The orang pendek expeditions have been by far their most successful ventures, but the pair are still beset by scepticism from the general public.

"It's very easy to be seen as a nutter," admits Adam. "And so we're very careful that anything we do find is analysed independently by scientists."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/3631256.stm

Published: 2004/09/08 17:43:12 GMT

© BBC MMIV
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Hats off and thumbs up to those boys.:yeay:

Lets get the jungle saved. Allow the locals to thrive off eco-tourism rather than murdering trees.
 
That thing they mentioned in the previous article with Marco Polo, surely the one he was talking about was Orang Utan. Which does mean Forest Man when literally translated.
 
Bramhall’s Indiana Jones off to find Yeti


EXPLORER Adam Davies with a plastercast of what he believes is the Yeti's footprint.

BRAMHALL’S very own part-time Indiana Jones has taken flight to a jungle island hoping to prove the existence of the infamous Yeti.

Explorer Adam Davies set out on his travels to Sumatra in Indonesia to hunt the creature down and capture it on film.

Three years ago Adam and a colleague from Newcastle brought back what they claimed was a footprint and hairs from the island, with test by experts at Cambridge University and in Australia later confirming they do not belong to any known species.

They believe it is evidence of the orang pendek, also known as the Sumatran Yeti.

Civil servant Adam who flew out last Thursday, now hopes to bring back photographic proof that the mythical half-ape, half-man really exists during his three-week adventure.

"What we want to do is capture it on film," said Adam, 35, who spends his holidays hunting down the mythical creatures. I appreciate it is like looking for a needle in a haystack, but I’m determined to give it a good go."

Tales of the orang pendek -"little man of the forest" - are part of the folklore of tribespeople in Sumatra.

The creature is said to be about five foot tall, chocolate brown or orange and able to walk upright.

According to folklore, it has incredible strength and speaks a language all of its own.

Adam hopes that by proving the creature’s existence it will make the orang pendek a protected species.

Adam added: "The rainforest is being chopped down. We hope that if we can get the pictures, we will be able to help protect it from illegal logging."

Adam’s wife Laura said: "He’s grown up with the idea that he’d one day like to be an explorer and ever since he was a child he has been interested in exploring.

"We’ve got a five-year-old who thinks his dad is Indiana Jones!"
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http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/index/articles/article_id=17043.html
 
There they do it again. Orang Utan means Forest Man. From what I could tell, Orang Pendek would be literally Short Man.
 
Latest

Evidence of 'jungle yeti' found
By David Green
BBC News Online, Manchester

Fresh evidence has been found in the jungles of Sumatra supporting claims that a mythical 'jungle yeti' may exist, claim two UK explorers.

Adam Davies and Andrew Sanderson found footprints which seem to match examples they found three years ago, which were shown to be from a new species of ape.

The orang pendek, as it is known, is said by islanders to walk like a man.

The pair, from Stockport and Newcastle-upon-Tyne, now plan to write a scientific paper on their discoveries.

The new evidence was found in the Bukkantingi area of the island.

Mr Davies and Mr Sanderson also claim they tracked the creature to within 500 metres but were unable to follow it into dense jungle.

Three years earlier, they found hairs and prints which were analysed independently by scientists and shown to be from an unknown species.

They have now discovered evidence of the creature's existence in separate parts of the island.

Mr Davies told BBC News Online: "When we arrived in Bukkantingi, we were told by the villagers that they had seen the orang pendek only two days earlier.

"They said they had seen it eating soft fruit in farmland on the edge of their village.

"We made base camp there and, two days later, one of our Indonesian guides heard it calling.

"We set after it and found new prints which we made casts of and which matched the prints which we discovered on our last trip.

"The prints had been made that day, our guides told us, and we also heard it calling, but were unable to capture it on film as it was in dense jungle.

"But I think we were at least within 500 metres of it."

Mr Davies said the pair now planned to write down their discoveries and send them to a primatologist at Cambridge University who analysed the original prints found in 2001.

But he said the habitat of the creature, if it exists, was under threat from illegal logging which had destroyed large areas of jungle since their previous visit.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3734946.stm
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Does our Adam have clues to ‘Hobbit’ man?



ADAM Davies with a plaster cast of a footprint discovered on an expedition to the Indonesian Jungle.

A BRAMHALL explorer could hold decisive clues to the discovery of "a new species of man", after it was claimed ‘hobbit-like’ creatures might still live in the unexplored Indonesian jungle.

Leading naturalist Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, made the astonishing claim after skeletons of 3ft tall ‘adult’ humans were discovered on the island of Flores by Australian archaeologists.

The discoveries prove that the new ‘homo floresiensis’ species lived until at least 12,000 years ago, when our own ancestors were colonising the Earth.

And our own intrepid Adam Davies, who says he has heard and collected hair samples from a Yeti-like creature on Sumatra, believes the finds have tipped the balance of scientific probability.

Adam, 35, said: "Sumatra is very near to Flores and it’s really likely that very small proportions of these creatures are surviving in remote areas."

Adam returned from his latest trip to the Indonesian jungle just last month with a second plaster cast of an unknown creature’s footprint and eye-witness accounts from locals claiming the creature, known as the ‘orang pendek’, had been sighted eating soft fruits.

His first trip to the island yielded a footprint and hair samples which scientists from Cambridge University and Australia confirmed belonged to no known species.

But it is not just the scientific community that is sitting up and taking notice of Adam’s discoveries - last week he appeared on the Richard and Judy show to talk about his experiences.

Adam is now working on getting a scientific paper published before his next expedition in search of the Almas, the mythical wild men of Mongolia.
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http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/index/articles/article_id=17188.html

See also the "hobbit" thread:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18498
 
This all seems to have gone very quiet for the orang pendek which is a shame and with Horizon throwing some doubt on the hobbit in flores it seems that Cryptozoology is losing its two main talking points. Poo :?


(The motto of Horizon seems to be "for every expert there is an equal and opposite expert")
 
Nah. CZ is fine - HF an OP are big talking points due to the possible missing link/hominid link and the mythos that may/not be supported. The actual day to day stuff seems robust.
 
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