Orang Pendek / Orang Dalam / Sedapa [South-East Asia]

oldrover

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In some fear of peeing-off everyone:
I don't see why this would bother anyone, personally I don't agree with it, but it's on the table in terms of explanations. My personal opinion is that in all cases except the Oran Pendeck it's only the supernatural and cultural archetype/modern pop culture that's left.

On that subject the Orang Gadang is an interesting one. I'm wondering if even in the potential presence of a real mystery ape like Orang Pendeck, there's still a need to invent one.

it would be wonderful and delightful to be proved wrong.
Wouldn't it just but I don't think you are.
 

amyasleigh

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oldrover said:
In some fear of peeing-off everyone:
I don't see why this would bother anyone, personally I don't agree with it, but it's on the table in terms of explanations. My personal opinion is that in all cases except the Oran Pendeck it's only the supernatural and cultural archetype/modern pop culture that's left.
It's just that I'm ready to admit with all cryptids, a putative paranormal element -- including with the Orang Pendek: just perhaps, they're physically around some, but not all, of the time. I can't speak for lordmongrove, but don't see him viewing that notion favourably.

oldrover said:
On that subject the Orang Gadang is an interesting one. I'm wondering if even in the potential presence of a real mystery ape like Orang Pendeck, there's still a need to invent one.
An element often on this general scene, I feel, of "the more, the better". I believe that in the lore of some Himalayan folk, there is supposedly more than one type of Yeti -- small-human-sized; and considerably larger.

it would be wonderful and delightful to be proved wrong.
oldrover said:
Wouldn't it just but I don't think you are.
In discussion among the American "Bigfoot community", the "believer / sceptic" debate at times becomes heated (especially on the "believer" side), to the point that the next step looks likely to be a shooting war. Most sceptics (some of whom were once proponents of BF's existence) are at pains to point out that that their doubts are not scorn-and-hate-fuelled: they would think it incredibly cool, and a great source of pleasure to them, if BF WERE to be proven as a hitherto undiscovered flesh-and-blood primate species -- it's just that data and reason tell them that it's very unlikely. Some of the more rabid believers just cannot credit this...
 

rynner2

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Long article:

On the trail of the orang pendek, Sumatra's mystery ape
On Friday zoologist Richard Freeman embarks on an expedition to find the elusive orang pendek. In the first of two articles, he describes the creature's possible appearance and likely evolutionary origins

The Indonesian island of Sumatra is the sixth largest island in the world. Sadly it has lost half its rainforest in the past 35 years, erased by the chainsaw to make way for palm oil and coffee plantations. Despite this, in the west of the island there are still vast tracts of forest standing, among them Kerinci Seblat National Park which covers 13,791 square kilometres – about the size of Montenegro.

It is from these forests that reports of a species of ape that walks upright and is unknown to science have been emerging for almost 100 years.

The orang pendek, "short man" in Malay, is said to be 4-5 feet tall but powerfully built with broad shoulders and long muscular arms. Sightings suggest it walks upright like a human, its body is covered with black or honey-coloured hair, and it may have a long mane of hair from its head down its back. It appears to live on the forest floor, unlike the arboreal Sumatran orang-utan which is confined to the north of the island.

The orang pendek's diet is said to be mostly fruits, vegetables and tubers, but some witnesses say they have seen it ripping open logs to get at insect larvae. Rare reports describe it eating fish and freshwater molluscs, and some early reports even have it consuming the flesh of dead rhinoceros that had fallen into pit traps.

Native people in Sumatra, including the modern Sumatrans of Malayan descent and the Orang Rimba or Kubu – the aboriginal people of Sumatra – ascribe no supernatural powers to the creature, unlike tigers, pythons and other naneks: spirit or tribal totem animals. Nevertheless, many jungle people fear the orang pendek because of its strength, even though it is not considered aggressive and will usually move away from any human it sees. It is said occasionally to use rocks and sticks as crude weapons, hurling them when it feels threatened.

etc...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/ ... ystery-ape
 

oldrover

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Some gold dust there in the comments section.

As an aside this thread had been dormant for nearly six years, that seems strange. Not that the OP hasn't been discussed here recently.
 

amyasleigh

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While reckoning the orang pendek one of the cryptids whose existence as a truly flesh-and-blood species, seems least unlikely -- and hoping heartily that lordmongroves's current expedition "strikes gold" -- I have trouble getting very fired-up about this creature. Irrational, but -- the OP seems from pretty well all accounts, to be a harmless, timid little soul; and childishly, it's the large and potentially menacing mystery beasts, that I find really exciting and beguiling. Should resolve to put prejudice aside, and brush up on OP-related matters.
 

rynner2

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amyasleigh said:
the OP seems from pretty well all accounts, to be a harmless, timid little soul...
I read that as "the Opening Poster seems from pretty well all accounts, to be a harmless, timid little soul" :oops:
 

Anome

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Seems the "OP" is listed as "Anonymous", so presumably someone who was lost in the purges. I mean, the website redesign.

I was hoping it would be lordmongrove, since the description of him as a "harmless, timid little soul" amused me for some reason.

As to the comments on his Guardian blog post, there are some good ones there, but I do kind of feel the ones saying "Take a camera, take casts of tracks, DNA analysis..." may be attempting to teach a cryptozoologist's grandmother to suck Thunderbird eggs.
 

oldrover

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I think he's in with a chance, but I think the baiting program he's going to set up is a really good chance.

I understand you there AM, I'm very interested in it myself but I do miss the Nandi Bears and the Nundas of this world.

I always assumed that in the other context OP meant 'original poster' rather than 'opening'.

"Take a camera, take casts of tracks, DNA analysis..."
That was my favourite too.
 

rynner2

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oldrover said:
I always assumed that in the other context OP meant 'original poster' rather than 'opening'.
Well, I'm following the cricket ODI at the moment! ;)
 

oldrover

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Well I'm not insisting on it, like every other acronym on the internet, except for IMHO, I had to google ODI to find out it meant one day international.
 

amyasleigh

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rynner2 said:
amyasleigh said:
the OP seems from pretty well all accounts, to be a harmless, timid little soul...
I read that as "the Opening Poster seems from pretty well all accounts, to be a harmless, timid little soul" :oops:
I'll admit to occasional fantasies of cryptid primates learning human language, and computer-use, and posting disinformation on Internet boards, to throw the pursuing hom. sap. sap off the scent...
 

lordmongrove

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Just writing it up for FT and the Guardian.
For the first time ever we found a hand print. It was cast in quick drying dental cement. The thumb is short and triangular but signifixcantly larger than the near vestigial thumb off an orang-utan. The fingers are thick and sausage shaped unlike the long thin fingers of an orang-utan. The palm is rounded. Overall it look much more like a small gorilla than an orang-utan which makes sense for a ground dwelling ape. It was found next to a rotten log that had been ripped apart. The creature seemed to have been bracing itself against the floor with one hand as it heaved the log over. There were no claw marks. I'm familiar with tiger, tapir and sunbear tracks this was none of them.
We also found hair in the are that has been preserved in eathenol to be sent of to several labs around the world. Casts of ther hand are being sent to primatologists.
Other stuff too but wait for my Uncon talk or FT article or indeed my book out soon!
 

oldrover

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Seen the hand print looks interesting, and the hairs sound promising, well done and good luck with the results.
 

amyasleigh

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Fascinating "Guardian" article. Things get better and better as regards this area of Sumatra and what might be found there -- very small (and potentially ferocious) pygmies -- surviving Australopithecines? -- and giant pythons, and a big cat resembling a prehistoric homothere. I want to go to Kerinci Seblat !
 

Analis

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The orang kardil look more like an equivalent of goblins, pixies and imps of European folklore. The supposed homalothere is remisniscent of the African "water lion".
 

lordmongrove

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So far we have dicked about on the firnges of Kerinci Seblat Park. Its 13,700 square miles. We need ti go very deep, for along time (as the actress said to the bishop).
 

amyasleigh

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Huge place, all right -- it's about the same size as Northern Ireland! Am having crazy thoughts tonight, along the lines of, I'm to all intents and purposes retired -- could go off to Sumatra and spend my declining years deep in the Kerinci Seblat, seeing what I might find there...

Bernard Heuvelmans makes brief mention in his book, of a reported Yeti-ish giant in Sumatra, the Orang Gadang (big man): sightings, and footprints (about 2 feet long by 8 in. wide). Any talk of any such, from your local informants?
 

lordmongrove

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That would be a great way to spend a retirement. I've personally come across no reports of Orang Gadang. But who knows what is out there. In the east of Sumatra there are massive swamps. It has been sugested that the javan rhino still survives on Sumatra too.
 

oldrover

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I'm to all intents and purposes retired
Me too, well almost I've clocked up 1 day in my chosen career, and on Wednesday I'll have doubled that! only another 34 years three hundred and sixty three days to go after that .

Returning to a less desperate theme, I think the plan you've got about enlisting the locals to watch and camera trap the fringes of the forest in the agricultural areas is what'll bag it.

LM I've read around on a few other boards about this last expedition and I see what you've complained about before re the criticism from armchair hunters was quite right; ignore them. If you're wrong you've tried and the worlds a better place for a bit of hope that there's still things and places out there bigger than us, if you're right well then that'll speak for itself. Either way f 'em.
 

lordmongrove

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Cheers Oldrover. We will be speaking with Debbie Martyr aout putting up camera traps in 2012. Its the rainy season now and all you would get would be raindrops.
 

oldrover

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Nothing you can say about something like that except sorry for your and his family's loss mate, what a waste of a young man. I'm sure all the regulars who've followed these threads for the last few years will feel the same.
 
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