Origins Of Phrases (Notes; Queries; Oddities)

Tunn11 said:
There may be the origin of a new and irritating phrase starting now.

"You're Joking." or "You're kidding me." have been around as long as I can remember; but lately we have the awful: "You're joking me.":yuck:
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I've heard that before.

I once travelled a bit with two New Zealand lads and one of them would call certain people 'jokers' ie look at that joker in the stupid hat.
I don't know if was just particular to him though, or a regional thing.
 
Floyd1 said:
I've heard that before.

I once travelled a bit with two New Zealand lads and one of them would call certain people 'jokers' ie look at that joker in the stupid hat.
I don't know if was just particular to him though, or a regional thing.
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I'm from North West England and regularly use the term 'joker' to describe someone; usually in place of the word 'idiot'. It can be used in multiple ways; I have a couple of recent examples. In Manchester Airport, a couple of weeks ago, I saw a man struggling to carry a heavy suitcase that had wheels; I commented to my wife "Look at that joker struggling with his bag when he could just roll it". But I have also used it in a more derogatory way. I was on a stretch of dual-carriageway that was merging into one lane, but the majority were sat in just one of the lanes. One car was sat straddling both lanes so that cars couldn't get further to the front of the queue. I commented "Look at that joker, thinking he's clever blocking the traffic".

I'm not sure where I picked the term up from, but it's one I've been using for a very long time.

Mark
 
Tunn11 said:
There may be the origin of a new and irritating phrase starting now.

"You're Joking." or "You're kidding me." have been around as long as I can remember; but lately we have the awful: "You're joking me.":yuck:
Click to expand...
I suppose the terminology of "get outta here" is in the same ball-park?
 
Mr. Banooka said:
I'm from North West England and regularly use the term 'joker' to describe someone; usually in place of the word 'idiot'. It can be used in multiple ways; I have a couple of recent examples. In Manchester Airport, a couple of weeks ago, I saw a man struggling to carry a heavy suitcase that had wheels; I commented to my wife "Look at that joker struggling with his bag when he could just roll it". But I have also used it in a more derogatory way. I was on a stretch of dual-carriageway that was merging into one lane, but the majority were sat in just one of the lanes. One car was sat straddling both lanes so that cars couldn't get further to the front of the queue. I commented "Look at that joker, thinking he's clever blocking the traffic".

I'm not sure where I picked the term up from, but it's one I've been using for a very long time.

Mark
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To be honest Mark, I have used it myself. (Don't tell Tunn).

Regarding straddling the lanes;
It's actually quite a good tactic to stop entitled types overtaking everyone else and flying down the outside lane to 'push in' (IT'S not British you know old chap).
You don't very often see cars doing it though, it's usually HGV's.

When a guy ever did it in front of me, I would stay behind him and then let him back in in front of me when it went down to single lane.
More risky in a (smaller vehicle) car though as people (in other cars) can just undertake you and leave you stranded.
 
Floyd1 said:
To be honest Mark, I have used it myself. (Don't tell Tunn).

Regarding straddling the lanes;
It's actually quite a good tactic to stop entitled types overtaking everyone else and flying down the outside lane to 'push in' (IT'S not British you know old chap).
You don't very often see cars doing it though, it's usually HGV's.

When a guy ever did it in front of me, I would stay behind him and then let him back in in front of me when it went down to single lane.
More risky in a (smaller vehicle) car though as people (in other cars) can just undertake you and leave you stranded.
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I think where the straddling lanes thing bothers me is when people are sat in a lane completely unnecessarily. Heading south on the A5117 from J14 of the M56, it is two lanes down to one, but everyone sits in just the left hand lane causing the roundabout at J14 to get backed up. For some reason, nobody seems to want to use the two lanes as intended, and if you try to use the right hand lane you will invariably get blocked.
 
hunck said:
I’d say all those have direct rain connections whereas Cats & Dogs seems to have no rain connection at all, which is what makes it a bit odd.
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I had always understood this quintessentially-Fortean image (in a literal Fortean sense) had it's real origins in the partly-apocryphal reported effect in mediaeval and earlier times, of cats and dogs falling from their common refuges in reed & rush roof coverings during extreme rain.

It was very common to find cats and dogs subsisting above head height in rural (and early urban) dwellings, as they would naturally eat rodents who were trying to nibble the roofing materials for sustenence.

They were actually the 'apex predators' (did you read what I did there?) in a whole range of rainwashed roof locations, and when that water became torrential, they'd be forced down into our bioplane of bipedal groundsmarts (who thenceforth created certain eponymous anachronistic statements of autonymic alterwelt ambiguity...et quod erat demonstrandum, ipso cogito veritas)
 
A few minutes of online searches revealed no definitive origin for "raining cats and dogs".

There is a tenuous link to Norse mythology, alleging that cats were believed to have some control of the rain, and dogs of the wind. Thus, a severe tempest would be caused by the supernatural actions of both cats and of dogs. This seems nonsense to me. (Most dogs can't control their wind.)

I independently made a connection with "cataract" (a waterfall, heavy vertical fall of water) and wondered about "cats and rats" being a fanciful variant, later exaggerated to "cats and dogs".

Wikipedia suggests "cataract", which was "catadoupe" in old English, from old French. I can sort of see how "cats and dogs" could be derived from this. It is part of the British sense of humour to take foreign or unusual words and distort them.

There is a comparison here with other English words or expressions that are loosely based on distorting the sound of foreign words. "Mayday" (distress call) comes from "M'aidez" (help me!). I suspect that the insult "toe rag" combines the idea of a dirty sock or foot covering with a corruption of the word "Tuareg" as it is/was common for English men of a certain age to use "Arab" as an insult. I have read etymologies of "Mealy-mouthed" that suggest it is derived from a Greek word, "Melimouthos".

An old pun, paraphrasing the (1979-82) British sketch show, Not the Nine o'Clock News: "An explosion has been reported at the Datsun factory. Locals say it is raining Datsun cogs."

There doesn't have to be a rational explanation for every idiom. A friend of mine uses "Mad as a balloon" and "Mad as a stick" to describe someone who is crazy. My own favourite, "Mad as a box of frogs," at least conveys an image of something that suggests craziness.
 
Before there were storm-drains, torrential rain would turn streets, which were already open sewers, into cataracts. Whether washed from above, as Ermintruder says, or dislodged from their cellars*, drowned canines and felids were notable in the aftermath, as if they had fallen like Fortean frogs. There were more horrid cases, where human corpses were washed from their graves . . . :oops:

Edit, addition, 11.30 pm:
*A dog's home is a kennel, now but the term used to be used for the channel or open-sewer, which ran down the middle of the street. Etymologists may chin-stroke over it but I would guess that the earliest dog-houses were designed to be flushed-out, in the manner of the Augean stables. Diverting the Alpheus, or any more local river, is still recommended for the larger breeds!
 
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Mikefule said:
I suspect that the insult "toe rag" combines the idea of a dirty sock or foot covering with a corruption of the word "Tuareg" as it is/was common for English men of a certain age to use "Arab" as an insult.
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That's plausible. The Etymology given in the OED is that originally toe-rags were literally strips of cloth wrapped around toes and feet by tramps in place of socks, and hence the term was used to describe tramps and vagrants. Other sources suggest some link to "Tuareg".

oxo
 
Of course, we all know where the term Hangover comes from don't we?;

HO.jpg
 
Lily-livered to mean weak/cowardly;

From the medieval belief that the liver was the seat of courage, and the pale color of the lily flower. A person who had no blood in their liver would have no courage and would thus be a coward.
 
Mr. Banooka said:
I'm from North West England and regularly use the term 'joker' to describe someone; usually in place of the word 'idiot'. It can be used in multiple ways; I have a couple of recent examples. In Manchester Airport, a couple of weeks ago, I saw a man struggling to carry a heavy suitcase that had wheels; I commented to my wife "Look at that joker struggling with his bag when he could just roll it". But I have also used it in a more derogatory way. I was on a stretch of dual-carriageway that was merging into one lane, but the majority were sat in just one of the lanes. One car was sat straddling both lanes so that cars couldn't get further to the front of the queue. I commented "Look at that joker, thinking he's clever blocking the traffic".

I'm not sure where I picked the term up from, but it's one I've been using for a very long time.

Mark
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You could have helped me, the wheel was broken on my suitcase
 
I've been reading the first few pages of this thread, and the initial "someone/ goose walked over my grave" reminded me of a very very very ex-girlfriend's mother, who would shiver and say "ooh, goose-w*nk!". Apparently this came from a progression from such a bird walking, then w*nking over her grave, became briefly "a goose w*nked over me" one Christmas before I knew her, before ending on "ooh, goose-w*nk!". It had the rest of the family in fits, except the dad. But he was a mardy old sod anyway.
 
Go
Steev(still) said:
I've been reading the first few pages of this thread, and the initial "someone/ goose walked over my grave" reminded me of a very very very ex-girlfriend's mother, who would shiver and say "ooh, goose-w*nk!". Apparently this came from a progression from such a bird walking, then w*nking over her grave, became briefly "a goose w*nked over me" one Christmas before I knew her, before ending on "ooh, goose-w*nk!". It had the rest of the family in fits, except the dad. But he was a mardy old sod anyway.
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'Goose-wank' - sounds like summat Joe Orton might enjoy.
 
Steev(still) said:
I've been reading the first few pages of this thread, and the initial "someone/ goose walked over my grave" reminded me of a very very very ex-girlfriend's mother, who would shiver and say "ooh, goose-w*nk!". Apparently this came from a progression from such a bird walking, then w*nking over her grave, became briefly "a goose w*nked over me" one Christmas before I knew her, before ending on "ooh, goose-w*nk!". It had the rest of the family in fits, except the dad. But he was a mardy old sod anyway.
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I wonder what type of goose? Ruddy headed springs to mind.
 
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