Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

gordonrutter

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#1
Osama Bin Laden has been killed by US forces
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676
Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden has been killed by US forces in Pakistan, President Barack Obama has said.

The al-Qaeda leader was killed in a ground operation outside Islamabad based on US intelligence, the first lead for which emerged last August.

Mr Obama said after "a firefight", US forces took possession of his body.

Bin Laden was accused of being behind a number of atrocities, including the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001.

He was top of the US "most wanted" list.

Mr Obama said it was "the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al-Qaeda".

The US has put its embassies around the world on alert, warning Americans of the possibility of al-Qaeda reprisal attacks for Bin Laden's killing.

Crowds gathered outside the White House in Washington DC, chanting "USA, USA" after the news emerged.
Raid details

Bin Laden approved the 9/11 attacks in which nearly 3,000 people died, saying later that the results had exceeded his expectations.

He evaded the forces of the US and its allies for almost a decade, despite a $25m bounty on his head.

Mr Obama said he had been briefed last August on a possible lead to Bin Laden's whereabouts.

"It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground," Mr Obama said.

"I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located Bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan.

"And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorised an operation to get Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice," the president said.

On Sunday a team of US forces undertook the operation in Abbottabad, 100km (62 miles) north-east of Islamabad.

After a "firefight" Bin Laden was killed and his body taken by US forces, the president said.

Mr Obama said "no Americans were harmed".

Giving more details of the operation, a senior US official said a small US team had conducted the operation in about 40 minutes.

One helicopter was lost due to "technical failure".

Three other men were also killed in the raid, including one of Bin Laden's sons. One woman was killed when she was used as "a shield", the official said.

The size and complexity of the structure in Abbottabad had "shocked" US officials.

It had 4m-6m (12ft-18ft) walls, was eight times larger than other homes in the area and was valued at "several million dollars", though it had no telephone or internet connection.

The US official said that intelligence had been tracking a "trusted courier" of Bin Laden for many years. His identity was discovered four years ago, his area of operation two years ago and then, last August, his residence in Abbottabad was found, triggering the start of the operation.
'Momentous achievement'

Former US President George W Bush described the news as a "momentous achievement".

"The fight against terror goes on, but tonight America has sent an unmistakable message: No matter how long it takes, justice will be done," Mr Bush said in a statement.

His predecessor, Bill Clinton, said in a statement: "This is a profoundly important moment not just for the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11 and in al-Qaeda's other attacks but for people all over the world who want to build a common future of peace, freedom, and cooperation for our children."

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says that, to many in the West, Bin Laden became the embodiment of global terrorism, but to others he was a hero, a devout Muslim who fought two world superpowers in the name of jihad.

The son of a wealthy Saudi construction family, Bin Laden grew up in a privileged world. But soon after the Soviets invaded Afghanistan he joined the mujahideen there and fought alongside them with his Arab followers, a group that later formed the nucleus for al-Qaeda.

After declaring war on America in 1998, Bin Laden is widely believed to have been behind the bombings of US embassies in East Africa, a billion-dollar US warship, and the attacks on New York and Washington.

Let the conspiracy theories begin!

Gordon
 

Hermes

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#2
How convenient...

Another timely distraction from headline news, this time in Libya.
How long has Bin Laden been dead, really? Rumours have suggested such for years, and that maintaining the belief of his being alive and influential was a useful carrot to lead the donkey of US interests into Iraq and Afghanistan. There have been suggestions that Bin Laden was a paid CIA operative all along. As always with cospiracy theories, there is some plausible support for this line of thought - I heard a radio interview a few years back following the run-down of the official hunt for Bin Laden with a former senior US intelligence official who claimed that they had a number of opportunities to capture or kill Bin Laden in the years (one one occasion, in Yemen) following the attack on the USS Cole and 9/11 but every time were told to stand down. Of course, this could itself have been misinformation - but it does make you wonder if it was more convenient to kill him rather capture him and bring him properly to justice - who knows what he might have had to say?
One thing is certain, the West should not celebrate his death - the scenes from Washington look uncomfortably similar to those from the Middle East following 9/11.
 

Vardoger

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#3
Another win for the west in their cruzades against the Middle East?
That's what the islamists are going to think and it will polarize the situation even further.
But he deserved it. Even if he wasn't responsible for 9/11, he is responsible for other terrorist acts against innocent people.
 

Yithian

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#4
SameOldVardoger said:
But he deserved it.
He did.

Nevertheless, I'm unhappy to see reports of crowds chanting 'USA' outside the White House. Recall how enraged many were by Palestinian celebrations in the wake of 9-11. There is a difference: the death of many civilians against the death of a terrorist, but displays of triumphalism merely ensure the perpetuation of the cycle of hatred. If American political leaders truly believe they inhabit higher moral ground than their enemy, they should do their best to show that their society can behave better than them. I remember reading accounts of the cellphone footage of Saddam Hussein being taunted before his execution following a show-trial and thinking that this was creating and storing up far more problems that it was solving.

A far greater man than me once wrote:

Any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
 

Timble2

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#5
It's the end of the chapter rather than the end of the story.


I wondered how long itould be before the conspiracy theories started. "He's been dead for years", or "He's not really dead", I think that's been answered already......
 

Vardoger

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#6
The problem is they buried him at sea before anyone could perform an independent autopsy and identification.
Expect new conspiracy theories to pop up soon.
 

Yithian

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#7
SameOldVardoger said:
The problem is they buried him at sea before anyone could perform an independent autopsy and identification.
Is that confirmed?

If so, it's an incomprehensible decision.
 
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#8
Fascinating. Will Gadaffi now step up to the plate to replace him as international Public Enemy N°1?

There always has to be a Goldstein.
 
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#9
theyithian said:
SameOldVardoger said:
The problem is they buried him at sea before anyone could perform an independent autopsy and identification.
Is that confirmed?

If so, it's an incomprehensible decision.
I'm not sure it's been confirmed, but it does seem to be on most of the news reports I've read this morning.

And yes, pretty confounding. First thoughts, if true: even with photographs any post-mortem confirmation of death would not convince a significant portion of public opinion, without photographs this portion would increase significantly - Bin Laden was so visibly ill at the time of his death that photographs would have provided significant propaganda value back to the other side - or, the head-shot with which he was reportedly despatched, created so much damage that: a) visual identification is impossible b) see above.

Of course there is the obvious possibility that it's not him - but I find it difficult to believe that those involved in a conspiracy would instigate an action so likely to increase speculation.

I also wonder - and it's pure speculation - whether there might be some symbolism involved. My understanding is that Muslims have pretty rigorous rules regarding the post-mortem treatment of the body and its interment - I'm not sure how they feel about burial at sea.
 

gordonrutter

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#11
doing a google image search for Osama Bin Laden body the first image appears to be him and matches the descriptions I've heard, when I click on the appropriate website the image is not there?
Ah - found another version

http://goripcity.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html

All of the reports I have seen say the US still very much has the body eg
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ma ... ody-burial
Osama bin Laden is dead but the al-Qaida leader is still posing difficult questions for US intelligence and security officials: notably, what to do with his body?

The US authorities are doing DNA tests to ensure they have got the right man; and they have taken possession of his body to make sure no myths of "escape" build up.

An official said the DNA results would be known within a few days. In the meantime US authorities must deal with the thorny problem of what to do with his remains.

Senior US officials told news agencies that his body would be buried in accordance with Islamic tradition. But it is not clear yet what they mean. Islamic custom often involves the bathing, shrouding and burial of a body within 24 hours.

And where to send Bin Laden's remains? His large extended family in Saudi Arabia have largely distanced themselves from him. The Saudi government would be wary of having any grave on Saudi territory that could become a shrine for followers of radical Islam – there are many such people inside the kingdom.

Pakistani authorities would have similar concerns, sharpened by the embarrassment of having Bin Laden caught deep within their country and living in relative comfort an hour's drive from Islamabad.

There is some precedent in the case of Jordanian-born terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He was killed during a bombing in Iraq. Authorities in Jordan refused his family's wishes to have his remains repatriated to his homeland. His body was transferred to the Iraqi authorities who buried him according to Islamic customs but at a secret location, according to a US military press release issued at the time.

A similar unknown and murky fate may await Bin Laden's remains, but it may also feed conspiracy theories that he was never killed.

Uday and Qusay Hussein, the sons of the Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, were buried in a community graveyard after their deaths in a firefight with US troops and then later reinterred in a family plot. Something similar might be an option for Bin Laden.

US authorities did not immediately rush to bury the Hussein brothers, instead releasing the corpses 11 days after they were killed and relying on photographs of their bodies to convince people they were dead.

Gordon
 

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#13
Mal_Content said:
Interesting news item about a possibility that the Osama death photo might be faked here:

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -is-a-fake
Weird. I must be going crazy. I looked at the Daily Mail online this morning and there was the Bin Laden death picture. Minutes later, I opened the page again and it had gone and been replaced with a picture of him while alive. The byline now carries...

Pictures showing a bloodied face played on Pakistani TV but there were questions over its authenticity as U.S. officials claimed the body had been buried at sea.
Looking at the link Mal_Content provided, it does look like a shoddy photoshop job. Especially as the skin tones don't match across the face and are dramatically different to the body.
What is puzzling, if this was released as a genuine picture, US officials must know a jpeg has to be not only convincing but must also look untampered with. Especially having seen the scrutiny the Birthers applied to Obama's birth certificate.

How very odd.

Edit for update. Hottest google topic going I reckon.

This photoshopped picture has been shown before according to Will Heaven at the Telegraph...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willh ... pped-fake/
 
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#15
Is Osama a zombie?

I'll kill off the conspiracy then...if no one else will...

From Fox News 26th December 2001

Bin Laden Already Dead

Wednesday, December 26, 2001

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

"The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.

Bin Laden, according to the source, was suffering from a serious lung complication and succumbed to the disease in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief.

About 30 close associates of bin Laden in Al Qaeda, including his most trusted and personal bodyguards, his family members and some "Taliban friends," attended the funeral rites. A volley of bullets was also fired to pay final tribute to the "great leader."

The Taliban source who claims to have seen bin Laden's face before burial said "he looked pale ... but calm, relaxed and confident."

Asked whether bin Laden had any feelings of remorse before death, the source vehemently said "no." Instead, he said, bin Laden was proud that he succeeded in his mission of igniting awareness amongst Muslims about hegemonistic designs and conspiracies of "pagans" against Islam. Bin Laden, he said, held the view that the sacrifice of a few hundred people in Afghanistan was nothing, as those who laid their lives in creating an atmosphere of resistance will be adequately rewarded by Almighty Allah.

When asked where bin Laden was buried, the source said, "I am sure that like other places in Tora Bora, that particular place too must have vanished."
There must be other reports out there of his "first" death! Maybe even his second and third...
 

McAvennie

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#16
Mal_Content said:
Interesting news item about a possibility that the Osama death photo might be faked here:

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... -is-a-fake

I don't Gaddaffi is going to be around long enough to be the #1 hate figure if the bombing of a building he was in is anything to go by.
Looking at the pic it certainly looks like a pic of a random dead Middle Easterner with Osama's beard Photoshopped on the bottom. Top half looks clearer while bottom half seems more blurry.

This has been on Pakistani TV though, I don't know how closely they would vet their sources but not necessarily a case of the US giving a fake photo to prove their claims. I would very much doubt they would do something that could so spectacularly backfire. May just be a photo being circulated by an amateur PhotoShopper that has been picked up by Pakistani media.

It is not the most convincing image I have ever seen, and with the body now with Megatron there is conveniently no way to get a second opinion. Would assume US authorities will have taken official pics but whether we ever see them.
 
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#17
Now he will become a martyr:

With a gun in his hands and the name of Allah and his Prophet (PBUH) on his lips the great warrior gave his life for the faithful as he battled the unbelievers on to his last breath. Allah sent an Angel to guide Osama to Heaven.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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#18
So if he's been dead for years then I guess now his acolytes will come out with proof to back this up? That would establish consecutive US administrations as deceivers on a scale which would make Nixon look like a naughty toddler.

Of course, if they're all in on the deception themselves... :roll:
 

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#19
if he wasn't dead already Ted, some of thoise broadcasts had been done by stooges for some reason.

maybe they needed a good excuse for torturing people at guantanamo ?
 

McAvennie

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#20
ted_bloody_maul said:
So if he's been dead for years then I guess now his acolytes will come out with proof to back this up? That would establish consecutive US administrations as deceivers on a scale which would make Nixon look like a naughty toddler.
Very good point.

I've been of the suspicion that he has been dead for a while. If Al Qaeda had evidence of their own burial of him then surely they could leave substantial egg on the Obama face.

For that reason I highly doubt the US would have risked claiming they had got him.

Which either means:

a) They legit have got him
b) They are all in it together

I think it seems like A to me.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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#21
Jonfairway said:
if he wasn't dead already Ted, some of thoise broadcasts had been done by stooges for some reason.

maybe they needed a good excuse for torturing people at guantanamo ?
You could reasonably argue that those involved in AQ needed Bin Laden alive as it helped their cause in some way. Well, he's not alive anymore, at least officially. Unless you believe that pretty much everyone involved in AQ are involved in a US lead conspiracy, including those who have been killed for it and who give up a normal life for one of abnormal danger and risk, then how else would you explain the lack of voice from those same people right now?

Also, people who think the war on terror is over, that the arguments used to sustain Guantanamo and launch pre-emptive wars will no longer be exercised, must have been in a coma for the last ten years.
 

ted_bloody_maul

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#22
Pietro_Mercurios said:
Fascinating. Will Gadaffi now step up to the plate to replace him as international Public Enemy N°1?

There always has to be a Goldstein.
Gadaffi used to hold that post. Judging by recent US reluctance he looks like an unlikely figure. I suspect the US will go on doing what it always does - looking after its own interests, legitimate or otherwise, without having to fabricate threats. Given the exceptional number of people who have tremendous animus towards the US, justified or not, it would be more questionable if there were no such figures out there working against the US, either as a goal in itself or simply where interests come into conflict.
 

Jonfairway

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#23
only one reason for him to be dead at the hands of the USA now

Obama gets Osama yeeee haaaaa


he needs the brownie points in his home country after the birth place fiasco.

and with Osama gone , a new AQ leader can be lofted high on their flag pole, theres only so long you can chase a ghost anyway.
 

McAvennie

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#24
The guy who is the expected No 2 always appears quite comical to me, he just seems to be there with OBL carrying a little handbag. :lol:

Just been GoogleEarthing the compound and it is remarkably close to the Pakistani Military Academy. Presumably they must have been made well aware of what was about to happen as a Black Hawk suddenly turning up right next door would surely have arisen suspicion and potentially retaliation.
 

Jonfairway

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#26
Just been GoogleEarthing the compound and it is remarkably close to the Pakistani Military Academy. Presumably they must have been made well aware of what was about to happen as a Black Hawk suddenly turning up right next door would surely have arisen suspicion and potentially retaliation.
think they videoed the whole attack ?
 

ted_bloody_maul

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#27
Jonfairway said:
only one reason for him to be dead at the hands of the USA now

Obama gets Osama yeeee haaaaa
Yeah. Perpetrating the worst terrorist attack on American soil is not reason enough. And as we all know it's incredibly easy to track down these sorts of characters and kill them.


Jonfairway said:
he needs the brownie points in his home country after the birth place fiasco.
No, he doesn't. He's the president until January of 2013 regardless. If he wanted brownie points he would wait until the thick of the election campaign next Autumn, no?

Jonfairway said:
and with Osama gone , a new AQ leader can be lofted high on their flag pole, theres only so long you can chase a ghost anyway.
Well, there's a tune being changed mid-chorus.
 

Jonfairway

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#28
Ted

Surely you can see the photoshop that has been done on the death photo ?

or are you still in " i will argue with you what ever you say mode still " ?
 

ted_bloody_maul

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#29
Jonfairway said:
Ted

Surely you can see the photoshop that has been done on the death photo ?

or are you still in " i will argue with you what ever you say mode still " ?
No. I'm in the "I will debate with you whenever you say something that can be easily exposed as wrong" mode.

The photo - was this officially released by the US? If not then it's of no relevance to claims of a conspiracy whatsoever.
 

Jonfairway

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#30
right

correct me if I get this wrong

you don't think the picture being shown on the internet has come from a US source ?

you think it is the conspiracy folk circulating a fake piccy so they can accuse the US of producing a fake piccy

?
 
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