Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[Jerry_B]

I'm a bit confused. From your previous posts, I understood (correct me if I am wrong) that you thought that revealing that OBL had died long ago would further the cause of Al-Qaeda (I disagree, but that's another story).
There, by stating that, you seem to suggest that the revelation would not help AQ. So, it would or it would not further their cause ?

No, I don't think I've said that.

Unless you suggest that now that AQ had chosen this path, Iranis intend to spread confusion and discord among Sunnis ?

No, I wasn't saying that either. That said, the Iranians may have their own reasons for taking part in the way recent events are being discussed.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

The guy in the video watching tv is actually Akhbar Han, the neighbour of a man interviewed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JWpgAWKEU

Well he must almost certainly be right. If that guy says it's not Bin Laden, it's actually his neighbour's house, then that's good enough for me. Case closed.

Oh, except for all that stuff about the non-Pakistani sockets and what have you.

 

[Rigsby]

I'm just keeping an open mind
Hopefully we'll soon get to see pics of Akhbar Han, unless they mistakingly shot him of course.....

 

[_Lizard23_]

2 pin 240 (ish) volt plugs exactly like those plugged into the trailing power strip are common all over India and Nepal so I don't see why they wouldn't be in Pakistan.

 

[Spookdaddy]

The guy in the video watching tv is actually Akhbar Han, the neighbour of a man interviewed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JWpgAWKEU

You have to wonder. I mean, if you were a journo and you were handed a coup the size of that one wouldn't you trip over yourself in the rush to get get your camera in front of the neighbour, or would you really be happy to just stick a microphone in the face of the bloke who says he lives next door?

 

[rynner2]

Panorama
- The Death of Bin Laden

The story of how America tracked down and killed Osama Bin Laden. Featuring interviews with eyewitnesses, victims of Al Qaeda's terror and military and intelligence insiders.

The full story of how America tracked down and killed the world's most wanted man, Osama Bin Laden. From the small Pakistani town of Abbottabad to the streets of New York, the programme speaks to eyewitnesses, victims of Al Qaeda's terror and military and intelligence insiders. There is also a look at why so many people were kept in the dark about the operation and whether the Pakistanis were really unaware of Bin Laden's whereabouts.

As British soldiers take on the Taliban in Afghanistan and the public remain alert to potential terrorist attacks here at home, Panorama asks whether Britain can trust Pakistan to be an ally in the battle against terrorism.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Bin_Laden/

 

[Rigsby]

You CAN'T deny that there are two different shapes of ear between these 2 guys - someone's done an photo comparison/analysis. You can see a clear video of the 'new' Osama in the second link - he has a rounded ear at the top rather than a point at the top (which the real/old Osama had).
The alternative is that he had an ear job at some point?
So are the U.S government presenting us with 2 different Osamas in these videos or did he have an ear job?

Analysis:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/22823 ... d-Left-Ear

New 'candid' video:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/category/terr ... bin-laden/

 

[Mythopoeika]

I've got to say that I think the guy in the video (both the 'candid' video and the one of him watching TV) doesn't look much like Bin Laden.
So, on that point, I agree with Rigsby.

It is possible, however, that OBL had some minor facial and ear surgery done to make himself look slightly different...

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

This is a screenshot I've taken from the same video:

The difference between the two separate shots doesn't seem so pronounced from this piece of footage (available to view here).

Looks like a case of "nothing to see 'ear".

 

[Mythopoeika]

Looks like a case of "nothing to see 'ear".

You mention his ear...in the pic you posted, his ear does not seem to stick out as much as in earlier photos.

Then there's the thinner beard, with no grey.

But, as I say, he could have had surgery and dyed his beard.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

It does appear to stick out more than in the photo used in the link earlier, which might bring us to conclude that using that footage isn't particularly reliable.

 

[Mythopoeika]

It does appear to stick out more than in the photo used in the link earlier, which might bring us to conclude that using that footage isn't particularly reliable.

No idea what you mean now.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

I mean that viewed from a different angle/different point on the film his ear doesn't appear quite as 'petite' as the earlier link suggested.

 

[Mal_Adjusted]

pic courtesy of ted_bloody_maul

"Osama - you bin scrumping apples from the orchard next door?"

 

[McAvennie]

Sorry, but someone had to do it... :lol:

 

[Analis]

Unless you suggest that now that AQ had chosen this path, Iranis intend to spread confusion and discord among Sunnis ?

No, I wasn't saying that either. That said, the Iranians may have their own reasons for taking part in the way recent events are being discussed.

Yes, they may have their own reasons.
That's the main problem we have when we discuss motives for Al Qaeda (if they're the real thing) or any other party. We may imagine many plausible rationales for their actions or non-actions. What they "should" do, how they would react... Some assert that Al Qaeda would expose that OBL was already dead if this was true ; others don't understand that they didn't claim that he was dead even if it was not true etc... Some facts can be used to support one stance or its contrary.

Until we get hard evidence, the wisest thing to do would be to present our speculations for what they are : mere speculations.

Sorry, but someone had to do it... :lol:

There's also the problem of OBL's left-handedness.

For the record, the Gaspar Llamazares scandal :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8463657.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34894217/ns ... en-poster/
When the FBI was stupid enough to use the photo of a Spanish lawmaker to produce fake OBL pictures.

 

[Mythopoeika]

There's also the problem of OBL's left-handedness.

Not sure that is particularly important.
Myself, I'm right-handed, but I occasionally use the remote in my left hand.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

For the record, the Gaspar Llamazares scandal :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8463657.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34894217/ns ... en-poster/
When the FBI was stupid enough to use the photo of a Spanish lawmaker to produce fake OBL pictures.

I think it's over-egging the conspiracy pudding just a touch to label them 'fake'.

 

[ramonmercado]

Mr O'Sama might have won over the Irish.

Al-Qaeda sought to convert the Irish
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing53.html
CHARLIE TAYLOR

Thu, May 03, 2012

Osama bin Laden was urged by a fellow leading al-Qaeda member to send a message to the Irish people persuading them to support Islam.

According to new declassified documents seized from his hideout in Pakistan following his death last year, bin Laden was advised that there was a possibility of converting Irish people because of their disenchantment with the Catholic Church and anger over the economic crisis.

Among the reasons outlined as to why the Irish might be open to Islam were Irish people's sympathy towards Palestinians and "the soft treatment of the judicial system to Muslims accused of terrorist acts".

The Combating Terrorism Center, a privately funded research base at the US Military Academy at West Point, posted a number of declassified documents belonging to bin Laden on its website today.

They were taken in the raid on his house in Abbottabad last May in which he was killed by US forces.

The documents, which total 175 pages in the original Arabic and 197 pages in the English translation, span a period from September 2006 to April 2011 and include private letters between prominent al-Qaeda members including bin Laden.



Among the documents is a letter from the American al-Qaeda spokesman Adam Gadahn to an unknown recipient in January 2011 which lays out reasons for reaching out to the Irish people.

The document, which highlights the reasons for issuing a call to the Irish people notes that Ireland was not a participant in "Bush's Crusade wars," but also adds that the country had been part of an EU-wide force engaged in training the Somali army.

It also speculates on the impact of the clerical child abuse scandal and the economic crisis on Ireland.

"What helped to prepare the message was the last economic crisis that affected Ireland a lot, thus forcing its youth to look for sources of living in the outside," writes Mr Gadahn.

"The other matter is the increasing anger in Ireland towards the Catholic Church after exposing a number of sex scandals and others," he adds.

The document says that Irish people, "who were the most religious of atheist Europe," are moving towards secularism.

"Why do not we face them with Islam,?" asks Mr Gadahn.

He goes on to suggest preparing a similar message to Catholics living in Arab regions calling them to Islam and cautioning them against co-operating with "invader enemies."

"Catholics were historically the prominent enemies of the Jews, amongst the other Christians. They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”

“ Their public in general, these days, is more sympathetic and understanding of the Muslims, than other Protestant and Orthodox Christians," he says.

 

[jacolantern]

Quote/above
They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”
eh? am i just reading this wrong, or do they get their facts off the back of a cornflake packet?

 

[ramonmercado]

Quote/above
They were also the original enemies to the Evangelist Protestant who were the vanguard of the Crusades.”
eh? am i just reading this wrong, or do they get their facts off the back of a cornflake packet?

Probably loses something in translation.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

:lol:

 

[ramonmercado]

There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

:lol:

Its a load of shi'ite.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

There's always the possibility that these, 'Al Quaeda papers', are in fact black ops fakes, intended to smear and discredit various targets, convenient to US intelligence interests.

:lol:

Its a load of shi'ite.

Qu'ite. :lol:

 

[AngelAlice]

The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?

 

[ramonmercado]

The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Fundamentalists, including Al Qaeda, fighting to overthrow a secular regime are on "our" side.

Some of the leaders of the Syrian Fundamentalist Opposition have boasted of their intention to ethnically cleanse Christians, Alawis and other Shias'. from Syria. This does not seem to bother Hillary.

The caves in Tora Bora must be equipped like the Mayo Clinic.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

The whole OBL thing has never made much sense has it. His family knew the Bush family. He apparently had links with the CIA. He also apparently had advanced kidney disease, but somehow survived without dialysis, living in a cave or something. His photos look curiously different from each other. Al Quaeda has itself been claimed to be a creation of western agencies, much like the Taliban. And indeed according to La Clinton, it's currently fighting on 'our side' in Syria.

Does anyone on either side have a clear idea what is really going on any more?

Well, I guess someone on the other side has a pretty clear idea...

 

[Zilch5]

One of the SEALs involved in the killing of OBL has now written a book about it - apparently non-sanctioned by the CIA. Some parts from a review in the New York REview of Books:

Bissonnette continued up toward the third floor. There was another SEAL in front of him; he could not see around the point man very well. Near the top of the stairs, he heard the distinctive sound of firing from the lead SEAL’s rifle, which was equipped with a silencer. “The point man had seen a man peeking out of the door on the right side of the hallway…. I couldn’t tell from my position if the rounds hit the target or not. The man disappeared into the dark room.”

They went inside and found “two women standing over a man lying at the foot of a bed.” The man on the floor was bin Laden, although the SEALs did not know that for certain then, Bissonnette writes. He recounts how the attack ended:

The point man’s shots had entered the right side of [bin Laden’s] head. Blood and brains spilled out of the side of his skull. In his death throes, he was still twitching and convulsing. Another assaulter and I trained our lasers on his chest and fired several rounds. The bullets tore into him, slamming his body into the floor until he was motionless.

Bin Laden, then, was the third of three men the SEALs shot dead, or finished off, while they were lying on the floor. Perhaps al-Kuwaiti, Abrar, and bin Laden had been mortally wounded by the initial shots that struck them, but no effort was made to determine their prospects for survival. Bin Laden had stored a gun on a shelf nearby but it contained no ammunition; there has been no evidence that he tried to get hold of it; he was neither armed nor aggressive at the moment of his death.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... -or-alive/

 

[Marco_Polo]

Another win for the west in their cruzades against the Middle East?
That's what the islamists are going to think and it will polarize the situation even further.
But he deserved it. Even if he wasn't responsible for 9/11, he is responsible for other terrorist acts against innocent people.

That seems like a general and vague statement.. But I'll take it.

 

[rynner2]

Osama bin Laden: Navy emails lift the lid on secret burial at sea
The first details of Osama bin Laden's secret burial at sea have been revealed in internal US military emails which show that no sailor witnessed the covert funeral.
3:06AM GMT 22 Nov 2012

The emails, which were heavily blacked out, also disclosed that Islamic rituals were observed in the lead-up to the burial, and revealed that bin Laden's body was referred to as a FedEx package.

The correspondence represents the first public disclosure of government records about the former al Qaeda leader's burial. They were released on Wednesday by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by The Associated Press,

One email stamped secret and sent on May 2 by a senior Navy officer briefly describes how bin Laden's body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet, and then placed in a weighted bag.
According to another message from the Vinson's public affairs officer, only a small group of the ship's leadership was informed of the burial.

Bin Laden was killed on May 1, 2011, by a Navy SEAL team that assaulted his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. His body was carried out to sea by the USS Carl Vinson.

"Traditional procedures for Islamic burial was followed," the May 2 email from Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette reads. "The deceased's body was washed (ablution) then placed in a white sheet. The body was placed in a weighted bag.
"A military officer read prepared religious remarks, which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker. After the words were complete, the body was placed on a prepared flat board, tipped up, whereupon the deceased's body slid into the sea."

The email also included a cryptic reference to the intense secrecy surrounding the mission. "The paucity of documentary evidence in our possession is a reflection of the emphasis placed on operational security during the execution of this phase of the operation," Admiral Gaouette's message reads.
Recipients of the email included Admiral Mike Mullen, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and General James Mattis, the top officer at US Central Command. Admiral Mullen retired from the military in September 2011.

Earlier, Admiral Gaouette, then the deputy commander of the Navy's Fifth Fleet, and another officer used code words to discuss whether the helicopters carrying the SEALs and bin Laden's body had arrived on the Vinson.
"Any news on the package for us?" he asked Rear Admiral Samuel Perez, commander of the carrier strike group that included the Vinson.
"FedEx delivered the package," Admiral Perez responded. "Both trucks are safely enroute home base."

Although the Obama administration has pledged to be the most transparent in American history, it is keeping a tight hold on materials related to the bin Laden raid.
In a response to separate requests from the AP for information about the mission, the Defense Department said in March that it could not locate any photographs or video taken during the raid or showing bin Laden's body.
It also said it could not find any images of bin Laden's body on the Vinson.

The Pentagon also said it could not find any death certificate, autopsy report or results of DNA identification tests for bin Laden, or any pre-raid materials discussing how the government planned to dispose of bin Laden's body if he were killed.

The Defense Department also refused to confirm or deny the existence of helicopter maintenance logs and reports about the performance of military gear used in the raid.
One of the stealth helicopters that carried the SEALs to Abbottabad crashed during the mission and its wreckage was left behind. People who lived near bin Laden's compound took photos of the disabled chopper.
The AP is appealing the Defense Department's decision.

The CIA, which ran the bin Laden raid and has special legal authority to keep information from ever being made public, has not responded to AP's request for records about the mission.

Source: AP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... t-sea.html