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Other (Supernatural) Explanations For Ghosts

m fidget said:
always a fan of the stone tape theory where natural if uncommon forces combine to record the event literally in stone where it can replay

silica and quartz could be excited during sun storm eg
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I find the stone tape theory weak, to tell the truth, scraping around to find a materialist explanation. Where and how is all this information recorded, exactly? And why has no trace of this information turned up under analysis?
 
The whole question hinges on our (human) perception of what is happening around us which is often proved to be fallible. People mistake planets and bright stars for UFOs and recall how they were chased by them down the highway. Don’t rule out the power of suggestion. I’ve seen people terrify each other pushing a glass around in a Ouija session.

Sound frequencies also have their part to play in our perception of what supernatural things may be around us. I recommend Vic Tandy’s exploration of the 19hz wave and resolution of his ‘haunting’ here.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/oct/16/science.farout

Which contains this excellent nugget…
In an interesting parallel, researchers have recorded that, prior to an attack, a tiger's roar contains frequencies of about 18hz, which might disorientate and paralyse their intended victim. Is this the sound of fear itself?
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So it becomes a distinct possibility that audio frequencies can disorient and promote a fear response in humans.

Then we have to contend with the effect of electromagnetic energy on the mind. In terms of the Supernatural we have…
Medical researchers have also studied the effects of electrical fields on people's brains. Electrical stimulation to the angular gyrus of the brain, for example, can cause the sensation of someone behind you mimicking your movements. Electrical stimulation to different parts of the brain has also caused people to hallucinate or seem to have near-death experiences.
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https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/ghost3.htm

Going really far out there, we enter the almost Sci Fi Bio world of fungi.
Entrenched deeply under our feet and decorating the surface of our world and even entering our homes, we’re not really sure about fungi or the effect their spores can have on us.

Strange but True: The Largest Organism on Earth Is a Fungus​

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The discovery of this giant Armillaria ostoyae in 1998 heralded a new record holder for the title of the world's largest known organism, believed by most to be the 110-foot- (33.5-meter-) long, 200-ton blue whale. Based on its current growth rate, the fungus is estimated to be 2,400 years old but could be as ancient as 8,650 years, which would earn it a place among the oldest living organisms as well.
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/

Scientists are currently looking into fungal intelligence and feats of memory and adaptation.

https://psyche.co/ideas/the-fungal-mind-on-the-evidence-for-mushroom-intelligence

I know this come across as weird but what if spores can do more? We’ve seen the affected ants that climb a stalk as high as they can, clamp their mandibles and wait until the spore becomes fungus and literally blows its brains out.

Then there’s bacterial effect on the brain. Toxoplasma Gondii for instance. Blame the cat for that.

Before we start looking at shifting the goalposts to look at alternative supernatural explanations for ghosts, we should explore all of the natural possibilities as, in the long run, this would give us a greater insight into this mad ball we’re all riding around on instead of just sitting in the dark and scaring the shit out of ourselves.
 
these are all super AND natural suggestions, agree in exploring natural reasons to better understand this mad planet

h/t to you for including sources ❤️

(shivers thinking of the fungus that makes ants into zombies)

Analogue Boy said:
The whole question hinges on our (human) perception of what is happening around us which is often proved to be fallible. People mistake planets and bright stars for UFOs and recall how they were chased by them down the highway. Don’t rule out the power of suggestion. I’ve seen people terrify each other pushing a glass around in a Ouija session.

Sound frequencies also have their part to play in our perception of what supernatural things may be around us. I recommend Vic Tandy’s exploration of the 19hz wave and resolution of his ‘haunting’ here.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/oct/16/science.farout

Which contains this excellent nugget…

So it becomes a distinct possibility that audio frequencies can disorient and promote a fear response in humans.

Then we have to contend with the effect of electromagnetic energy on the mind. In terms of the Supernatural we have…

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/ghost3.htm

Going really far out there, we enter the almost Sci Fi Bio world of fungi.
Entrenched deeply under our feet and decorating the surface of our world and even entering our homes, we’re not really sure about fungi or the effect their spores can have on us.




https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/

Scientists are currently looking into fungal intelligence and feats of memory and adaptation.

https://psyche.co/ideas/the-fungal-mind-on-the-evidence-for-mushroom-intelligence

I know this come across as weird but what if spores can do more? We’ve seen the affected ants that climb a stalk as high as they can, clamp their mandibles and wait until the spore becomes fungus and literally blows its brains out.

Then there’s bacterial effect on the brain. Toxoplasma Gondii for instance. Blame the cat for that.

Before we start looking at shifting the goalposts to look at alternative supernatural explanations for ghosts, we should explore all of the natural possibilities as, in the long run, this would give us a greater insight into this mad ball we’re all riding around on instead of just sitting in the dark and scaring the shit out of ourselves.
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SimonBurchell said:
I find the stone tape theory weak, to tell the truth, scraping around to find a materialist explanation. Where and how is all this information recorded, exactly? And why has no trace of this information turned up under analysis?
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The stone tape theory doesn't necessarily entail a "natural" explanation (i.e., an explanation framed with respect to known scientific principles or possibilities), so the idea that a place can somehow "record / replay" a spectral simulacrum of an object or event needn't be assumed to involve a materialist agency.

In any case, something along the lines of the stone tape theory is one of the few approaches to explaining ghosts that addresses the fact that many, if not most, ghosts are strongly correlated with quite specific locations.
 
EnolaGaia said:
The stone tape theory doesn't necessarily entail a "natural" explanation (i.e., an explanation framed with respect to known scientific principles or possibilities), so the idea that a place c an somehow "record / replay" a spectral simulacrum of an object or event needn't be assumed to involve a materialist agency.

In any case, something along the lines of the stone tape theory is one of the few approaches to explaining ghosts that addresses the fact that many, if not most, ghosts are strongly correlated with quite specific locations.
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I don't see how it can be dismissed for some sightings. And I can see why it would be absurd to think it explains all experiences.
 
GerdaWordyer said:
I don't see how it can be dismissed for some sightings. And I can see why it would be absurd to think it explains all experiences.
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Exactly this, and it holds across all Forteana. Beware of blanket explanations. Misinterpretations and fakes aside, the overall phenomenon is probably a combination of some or all the above and other stuff we haven't even thought of yet.
 
We have both full threads and individual posts on hearing knocks or bangs.

My feeling about one that happened to me was that it was a expression of my own misgivings at the time about the situation I'd briefly found myself in, as a poltergeist might manifest.
 
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escargot said:
We have both full threads and individual posts on hearing knocks or bangs.
My feeling about one that happened to me was that it was a manifestation of my misgivings at the time about the situation I'd briefly found myself in, as a poltergeist might manifest.
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My stomach acidity issues can be influenced by something outside my body causing me stress.

It therefore stands to (fortean) reason that the opposite could also, possibly, occur.
 
EnolaGaia said:
In any case, something along the lines of the stone tape theory is one of the few approaches to explaining ghosts that addresses the fact that many, if not most, ghosts are strongly correlated with quite specific locations.
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Precisely! Ghost sighting stories often feature the same thing in the same location, often an old building

escargot i concur that poltergeist type phenom differs from ‘white lady who comes down the stairs’ in about every way - find it totes plausible humans cause them

Forteana is fab cuz unlike the default world far fewer people wave their hands and blame the divine.
 
m fidget said:
Forteana is fab cuz unlike the default world far fewer people wave their hands and blame the divine.
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To be honest, in my default world, nobody is blaming the divine. They are mostly either blaming human brain activity (where they do have a point), or some hand-wavy explanation.
GerdaWordyer said:
I don't see how it can be dismissed for some sightings. And I can see why it would be absurd to think it explains all experiences.
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Also,: this.
 
catseye said:
To be honest, in my default world, nobody is blaming the divine. They are mostly either blaming human brain activity (where they do have a point), or some hand-wavy explanation.
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perhaps my divine = your hand wavy? tbh I don’t follow contemporary ghost media, just an overseas fortean time subscriber for 2 centuries
 
Analogue Boy said:
The whole question hinges on our (human) perception of what is happening around us which is often proved to be fallible. People mistake planets and bright stars for UFOs and recall how they were chased by them down the highway. Don’t rule out the power of suggestion. I’ve seen people terrify each other pushing a glass around in a Ouija session.

Sound frequencies also have their part to play in our perception of what supernatural things may be around us. I recommend Vic Tandy’s exploration of the 19hz wave and resolution of his ‘haunting’ here.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/oct/16/science.farout

Which contains this excellent nugget…

So it becomes a distinct possibility that audio frequencies can disorient and promote a fear response in humans.

Then we have to contend with the effect of electromagnetic energy on the mind. In terms of the Supernatural we have…

https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/ghost3.htm

Going really far out there, we enter the almost Sci Fi Bio world of fungi.
Entrenched deeply under our feet and decorating the surface of our world and even entering our homes, we’re not really sure about fungi or the effect their spores can have on us.




https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/

Scientists are currently looking into fungal intelligence and feats of memory and adaptation.

https://psyche.co/ideas/the-fungal-mind-on-the-evidence-for-mushroom-intelligence

I know this come across as weird but what if spores can do more? We’ve seen the affected ants that climb a stalk as high as they can, clamp their mandibles and wait until the spore becomes fungus and literally blows its brains out.

Then there’s bacterial effect on the brain. Toxoplasma Gondii for instance. Blame the cat for that.

Before we start looking at shifting the goalposts to look at alternative supernatural explanations for ghosts, we should explore all of the natural possibilities as, in the long run, this would give us a greater insight into this mad ball we’re all riding around on instead of just sitting in the dark and scaring the shit out of ourselves.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are undoubtedly natural forces at work we don't undestand or haven't considered for whatever reason.
 
m fidget said:
perhaps my divine = your hand wavy? tbh I don’t follow contemporary ghost media, just an overseas fortean time subscriber for 2 centuries
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Very possibly. I only know that any time anyone mentions the word 'ineffable' - I'm off.
 
Frideswide said:
Agreed, Forteana is fab! But isn't the divine a fortean matter?

rather than an ecumenical one...
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nope, not to me, not at all. (shivers sticks out tongue) No. Gross.

but as i see this thread is titled ‘supernatural’ i’ll see self out and let others enjoy themselves. tbh i was here for the stone tape
 
Rappinghood said:
Yes, there are undoubtedly natural forces at work we don't undestand or haven't considered for whatever reason.
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I've often maintained that Fortean-type events (up to and including High Strangeness things) are all natural and scientifically explainable...it's just that science hasn't figured things out yet.

I think a whole lot of things could be explained by alternate dimensions overlapping with our own and such. Possibly time slips. Can you imagine a world where this was a known fact? Science just needs to catch up is all.
 
MercuryCrest said:
I've often maintained that Fortean-type events (up to and including High Strangeness things) are all natural and scientifically explainable...it's just that science hasn't figured things out yet.

I think a whole lot of things could be explained by alternate dimensions overlapping with our own and such. Possibly time slips. Can you imagine a world where this was a known fact? Science just needs to catch up is all.
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And there's likely something we haven't even considered yet at play.

I do suspect if we could get a look at whatever humanity is hundreds of years from now we'd be astonished at what we get wrong today.
 
Rappinghood said:
Wasn't the stone tape a bbc radio play anyway?

The Stone Streaming Service for modern audiences.
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The Stone Tape was a TV play. There's a Wiki page on it.

I saw it on its first showing and was irritated by the usual dramatic shortcut of the time, that a woman who works out what's really going on here was denounced by an unqualified male as mentally or emotionally unstable and her opinion disregarded with disastrous results. :rolleyes:
 
escargot said:
The Stone Tape was a TV play. There's a Wiki page on it.

I saw it on its first showing and was irritated by the usual dramatic shortcut of the time, that a woman who works out what's really going on here was denounced by an unqualified male as mentally or emotionally unstable and her opinion disregarded with disastrous results. :rolleyes:
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Yeah. Her problem wasn’t the Stone Wall but the Glass Ceiling.
 
escargot said:
The Stone Tape was a TV play. There's a Wiki page on it.

I saw it on its first showing and was irritated by the usual dramatic shortcut of the time, that a woman who works out what's really going on here was denounced by an unqualified male as mentally or emotionally unstable and her opinion disregarded with disastrous results. :rolleyes:
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Everyone's unstable in The Stone Tape. Especially the men. Every conversation is on the verge of hysteria, even the social chit-chat.
 
MercuryCrest said:
I've often maintained that Fortean-type events (up to and including High Strangeness things) are all natural and scientifically explainable...it's just that science hasn't figured things out yet.

I think a whole lot of things could be explained by alternate dimensions overlapping with our own and such. Possibly time slips. Can you imagine a world where this was a known fact? Science just needs to catch up is all.
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I'm with you, Mercury. I think there's an explanation for everything but we don't know how to go about finding it yet.

After all, we don't have to go back very far to find some fairly outlandish theories about things like viruses, the human body, Stonehenge, etc. And the Victorians reckoned that they knew everything there was to know too...
 
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