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Owzabout That Then? The Jimmy Savile Revelations & Aftermath

Friends of my family actually met as student/teacher, with the student being under 18. 40 or so years later, I believe they are still together.
 
Xanatic* said:
It's always paedophile.
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Not exactly. The traditional spelling in the UK and Commonwealth (including Canada) has used the oe/œ combination.

However, medical / mental health professionals in the UK etc have (for quite some time) begun to stick with the US spelling for fetus rather than fœtus.

Therefore there's a strong liklihood that the paedo/pedo paraphilia spelling has also been Americanized within the British English medical diaspora (it certainly shows as such within the DSM )

But the casting vote has go to @Loquaciousness ....
 
Frideswide said:
Dejeuner sur l'herbe,
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Saw it last week at d'Orsay! Extraordinary work.

800px-Edouard_Manet_-_Luncheon_on_the_Grass_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
 
Xanatic* said:
Friends of my family actually met as student/teacher, with the student being under 18. 40 or so years later, I believe they are still together.
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As long as the student was over 16 no crime was taking place .. unconventional but not illegal ..

Our P.E. teacher at school ended up marrying a sixth former student at our school ..
 
There were proposals at one time to extend this kind of prohibition to universities but I think that ran aground.

Lecher-lecturers with a harem of acolytes used to be very obvious in my uni-days. I am out-of-touch with the sector but hear rumours that nothing much has changed. :rolleyes:
 
Is that the standard we are going for here? Not technically illegal?
 
JamesWhitehead said:
There were proposals at one time to extend this kind of prohibition to universities but I think that ran aground.

Lecher-lecturers with a harem of acolytes used to be very obvious in my uni-days. I am out-of-touch with the sector but hear rumours that nothing much has changed. :rolleyes:
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Oh, it still is. Here where I live, it seems that once a prof has tenure, the administration won't bother about it. At least that's what my cousin's lit-crit professor told her when he was trying to ply her with wine and U2 (cos he was cool, see. :rolleyes:)
 
genex17 said:
I was watching a YouTube documentary on the Jimmy Savile scandal. Somewhere in the comments, someone added, "it's "pedophile", not "paedophile". After he got roundly flamed for being ignorant of the UK spelling since it happened there, all I could think is "I'm sure Britons wished the other spelling was correct, just this once".
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Alas, if you abandon the teaching of classics - the study of those languages from which our own tongue evolved - you can hardly be surprised when illiteracy ensues.
 
Swifty said:
As long as the student was over 16 no crime was taking place .. unconventional but not illegal ..
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Hmm...not quite that simple. There is weight given to the nature of the relationship between teacher and student, this transcends any notion of age making something legal. It's called "a betrayal of trust". This is why even in adult-adult teaching situations, the formation of romantic relationships is considered unprofessional and unwelcome.
 
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Ulalume said:
I've hesitated to mention this, not because I'm ashamed, but because it's creepy, but my first lover was my math teacher. I won't say what year/age, just that it was pubescent age. This teacher started just the way you describe, Swifty. He would call us to his desk, usually to talk about our grades, then touch our hand first below the level of his desk where no one could see. Then next time it was our thighs. Usually at the same time he was telling us (very kindly, you understand) that he was raising our grade a bit because he didn't want us to fail...etc.

Thinking about it now, that was an evilly clever manipulation (go along with this and get a reward) but I don't think I even thought about it like that. Many girls in that class were such that any positive attention from an authority figure was welcome, even like that. Myself, I never thought about resisting and considered myself complicit in what happened. Still do, really, even though if someone of that age told me they seduced their teacher I would be utterly appalled.

There were a few girls that I knew of, but I don't think anyone ever turned him in. See, he was nice, very very nice and made you feel special, and certainly I wasn't willing to cut off the one person who made me feel that way. Possibly it was the same for the other girls, too.

And frankly, in those days it wasn't something that was taken very seriously, anyway. I doubt the schools here would have responded to anything less than a lawsuit back then.
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Quoting my own post here, because I've run into an ethical problem. It never occured to me to Google the teacher mentioned above. But since it seems to be my week to search up old lovers, or at least people I'd had injudicious sex with, I did so. I didn't really think I'd find anything, but perhaps there would be an old arrest report or something. This is not what I found.

This former teacher of mine is now the director of children and family services in a large city in another country! :eek:
Not only that, but is a social worker for the school board in that place! There's a home for troubled children he's in charge of that houses kids of exactly the age range my classmates were in back then. Maybe that age range is his area of expertise, I don't know, but I'm thinking fox + henhouse. And we all know that troubled children are rarely taken at their word if they try to report an authority.

The right thing to do is notify someone of this. It was a long time ago, but there's no denying that he slept with me and at the very least fooled around with my friend M. at the back of the band hall (we are still friends today, and she admits to it) and at least one other girl in that class when we were barely in double digits. What are the chances he just stopped?

At the same time, I've had some traumatic experiences with this kind of thing and don't feel like I'm fit to wade into it.

Groan.

I've talked it over with my OH and we've decided on sending an anonymous letter to the authorities in that county explaining the situation, that it was long ago but if there are any similar reports to please take them setiously, etc.
Don't know if it will help, but that's what I'm going to do for now.
 
Ulalume said:
Quoting my own post here, because I've run into an ethical problem. It never occured to me to Google the teacher mentioned above. But since it seems to be my week to search up old lovers, or at least people I'd had injudicious sex with, I did so. I didn't really think I'd find anything, but perhaps there would be an old arrest report or something. This is not what I found.

This former teacher of mine is now the director of children and family services in a large city in another country! :eek:
Not only that, but is a social worker for the school board in that place! There's a home for troubled children he's in charge of that houses kids of exactly the age range my classmates were in back then. Maybe that age range is his area of expertise, I don't know, but I'm thinking fox + henhouse. And we all know that troubled children are rarely taken at their word if they try to report an authority.

The right thing to do is notify someone of this. It was a long time ago, but there's no denying that he slept with me and at the very least fooled around with my friend M. at the back of the band hall (we are still friends today, and she admits to it) and at least one other girl in that class when we were barely in double digits. What are the chances he just stopped?

At the same time, I've had some traumatic experiences with this kind of thing and don't feel like I'm fit to wade into it.

Groan.

I've talked it over with my OH and we've decided on sending an anonymous letter to the authorities in that county explaining the situation, that it was long ago but if there are any similar reports to please take them setiously, etc.
Don't know if it will help, but that's what I'm going to do for now.
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Both of your posts are very brave and respect to you for sharing them.

Firstly - you don't want to go to the police?

Secondly - an anonymous letter will be binned.
 
Ulalume said:
I've talked it over with my OH and we've decided on sending an anonymous letter to the authorities in that county explaining the situation, that it was long ago but if there are any similar reports to please take them setiously, etc.
Don't know if it will help, but that's what I'm going to do for now.
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Probably a good idea, although there's always the chance an anonymous letter will be ignored or binned.
How old would the teacher be now?
 
You mentioned before that you weren't ashamed about what happened and I think you're 100% correct to feel that way ... you did nothing to be ashamed of, it's the teacher who should be ashamed, even if he was 'friendly' towards you and your friend, he was the adult and you were the child and he abused your trust. There's also nothing wrong with you remembering it as an enjoyable experience, that's how are bodies are built but he shouldn't have done that to you ..

I think it's incredibly brave of you to tell us about your experiences here and now .. you must have had mixed feelings all of your life over this matter. I hope you can find the strength to talk to a suitable family member/members about this and discuss your options now. I'd also recommend you see your GP to talk to a councillor about this X ...

I'm also impressed that you've realised that other young girls might now be in danger from this man and that you've taken the time to find out where he is. This must be tough and surreal for you ..

After speaking with your loved one/loved ones for support and your GP, I would then approach the police to report this man's crimes, you may have to go to court but I'm sure your family would come with you. As you've recognised this man has probably got a history of doing this, it might even be the reason why he now works in another country.

If you do decide to go ahead and report this man, and I hope you do, I would strongly suggest that you don't discuss any progress or lack of on this board or any other social media site, if a jury leans that you have it could affect any outcome.

Best wishes and stay brave mate X
 
JamesWhitehead said:
I am out-of-touch with the sector but hear rumours that nothing much has changed. :rolleyes:
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I remember it it my day, but I don't see it now. Lecturers sometimes get it together with PG students but NOT the ones in their subject!
 
cycleboy2 said:
I read Wire in the Blood soon after it came out (I'm a huge fan of crime fiction) and even then it was very clearly based on JS. And if you've ever heard the edition of In the Psychiatrist's Chair with Anthony Clare, it was clear that back then, in 1991, that was both a disturbed and disturbing individual. I never liked his TV/radio persona - a DJ with no apparent interest in music - and after listening to In the Psychiatrist's Chair I tried to avoid him entirely.
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It is tricky because everyone likes to be wise, after the fact. There was much discussion on this board about how he was never convicted in court, which I felt wilfully ignored what he was happy to say about himself. And I always felt from childhood that he was a wrongun. However, I was completely fooled by Rolf Harris's public image.
 
After his novelty record "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" charted in the US back in 1963, I never heard anymore of Rolf until I saw another YT video on his scandal.

Jonathan King had a 1966 pop hit "Everyone's Gone To The Moon" and now he's been involved in underage sex offenses.

Jonathan and Rolf got caught and convicted while alive. Jimmy Savile just kept that mask on till his death. Amazing.

(I still yet have to page through the entire thread.)
 
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balding13 said:
It is tricky because everyone likes to be wise, after the fact. There was much discussion on this board about how he was never convicted in court, which I felt wilfully ignored what he was happy to say about himself. And I always felt from childhood that he was a wrongun. However, I was completely fooled by Rolf Harris's public image.
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Please don't take this as in any way excusing Rolf Harris, but to me (from what I've read), it seems that a difference between him and Savile is that while Rolf was more of an opportunist, Savile was an out-and-out predator.

As for that Tracy Ullman video, I think she hit the nail on the head as to why that whole Tinypops phenomenon is such an uncomfortable genre. Young girls in makeup - what could possibly go wrong?
 
Peripart said:
I think she hit the nail on the head
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I think so too. But it also troubles me as it's kind of the problem, i.e. - back in the 80s, men perving over pre-teen girls could be the basis of a comedy sketch, that it was all laughable and a joke. Seems that a afair few of the celeb abusers were allowed to get away with things with little scrutiny as their behaviour was written off as, "Oh, that's just ........., he's a pervy old sod."
 
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Coastaljames said:
I think so too. But it also troubles me as it's kind of the problem, i.e. - back in the 80s, men perving over pre-teen girls could be the basis of a comedy sketch, that it was all laughable and a joke. Seems that a afair few of the celeb abusers were allowed to get away with things with little scrutiny as their behaviour was written off as, "Oh, that's just ........., he's a pervy old sod."
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True enough although I think that Tracy Ulman sketch was making a point of your point and not just laughing it off. The "Oh, well, times were different then" and "He's just a randy old goat" attitudes are disturbing yes ..
 
Swifty said:
True enough although I think that Tracy Ulman sketch was making a point of your point and not just laughing it off.
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Maybe mate. But she was still using the subject matter to get laughs. I don't think, rightfully, that you could do that anymore.
 
Coastaljames said:
Maybe mate. But she was still using the subject matter to get laughs. I don't think, rightfully, that you could do that anymore.
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I agree .. Chris Morris lost his series Brass Eye for making Paedoggeden although that was actually trying to mock media led hysteria on the issue. Sometimes jokes can go too far if they're being broadcast into people's homes.
 
Swifty said:
Chris Morris lost his series Brass Eye for making Paedoggeden although that was actually trying to mock media led hysteria on the issue.
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Yes- Morris was never making a joke about paedophilia through that episode. He was using it make a joke about us and the media. Plenty didn't get it, as people often don't get Morris.
 
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Ulalume I echo what people have said - very brave to say what happened to you which was wrong on every level. Having seen through the exposure of a paedo I have an insight into what happens and I can write a book on it. I cannot tell you what course to take - that has to be your own decision. What I can say is that institutions go to any lengths to cover up these allegations and as others have said it is likely that an anonymous letter will be ignored entirely. If you really want to expose this criminal your only real option is to badger the Police and force them to take action. BUT and its a big but - be prepared for all sorts of nonsense to be thrown at you. As an example despite not being victims ourselves both the Police and the Chairman of the local Safeguarding Board had the temerity to question me and my friend on our attitude to sexual relations. I refused to answer and made my views on the question very loudly known but I am wholly able to deal with these so called Authority figures. Not trying to put you off adopting any course of action but you have to be prepared for a pretty rough ride if you proceed- exactly why I firmly believe a lot of criminal activity of this type goes unreported. Your experience will be the tip of the iceberg as far as this character is concerned and I doubt whether his activities will have stopped. I know several people to whom this has happened and whose voices have been unheard. The very best of luck for whatever choice you make. My thoughts are with you .
 
Coastaljames said:
Yes- Morris was never making a joke about paedophilia through that episode. He was using it make a joke about us and the media. Plenty didn't get it, as people often don't get Morris.
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It was probably the self-appointed public moral guardians of the UK, the Daily Mail, who led the witch hunt. Once they get their teeth into a "cause", they're like a Terrier who won't let go. Even the Government bow down to them.
 
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