Owzabout That Then? The Jimmy Savile Revelations & Aftermath

[Cochise]

He certainly came across as very odd on 'Louis Theroux meets...' aswell.

For anyone thats intetested here is the full programme

Yes, he certainly did. I'd always been repelled by him, but that was because I simply thought he was an arse. It was when that program was first shewn on TV that my wife told me she'd been warned against him when she (she was well connected) had been invited to be one of the dancing audience on TOTP. She just dropped it into the conversation as if we were discussing whether or not we wanted extra cheese on our pizza.

Trina was only round about 14 at the time but - err - big for her age. It was a stage hand or a cameraman or some such that told her 'do NOT be alone with Savile'. We'd been together for about 8 years at the time of the above broadcast and it was the first time she mentioned it. Her attendance at TOTP would have been about 1972Ish. She didn't discuss her life previous to me a lot so it was a bit of a surprise.

And, , while I entirely understand your points about the power of the defence council and the undesirability of monetary rewards, Maximus, it discounts the shame of those of have been sexually exploited who often come to believe it was somehow their fault. I suspect many of them will only come forward when someone else has broken the ice.

 

[Swifty]

Yes, he certainly did. I'd always been repelled by him, but that was because I simply thought he was an arse. It was when that program was first shewn on TV that my wife told me she'd been warned against him when she (she was well connected) had been invited to be one of the dancing audience on TOTP. She just dropped it into the conversation as if we were discussing whether or not we wanted extra cheese on our pizza.

Trina was only round about 14 at the time but - err - big for her age. It was a stage hand or a cameraman or some such that told her 'do NOT be alone with Savile'. We'd been together for about 8 years at the time of the above broadcast and it was the first time she mentioned it. Her attendance at TOTP would have been about 1972Ish. She didn't discuss her life previous to me a lot so it was a bit of a surprise.

And, , while I entirely understand your points about the power of the defence council and the undesirability of monetary rewards, Maximus, it discounts the shame of those of have been sexually exploited who often come to believe it was somehow their fault. I suspect many of them will only come forward when someone else has broken the ice.

I was walking up my road a couple of years ago and a teenage girl opened her front door to let a guilty looking dude out. She'd obviously been drinking. I also know her Mum and Dad ... "Hi .. can you get me a bottle of wine?" ... "You're underage so I can't do that sorry .. I can lend you a fiver but I will have to tell your Mum." .. "OK .. you know where I am if you need me." ... FFS? .. "If I need you?"" ... harsh but honest .. I could have schooled her about how some middle aged men are weirdos but I was a bit weirded out about the whole scenario so it was move away quickly time ...

 

[Mythopoeika]

I was walking up my road a couple of years ago and a teenage girl opened her front door to let a guilty looking dude out. She'd obviously been drinking. I also know her Mum and Dad ... "Hi .. can you get me a bottle of wine?" ... "You're underage so I can't do that sorry .. I can lend you a fiver but I will have to tell your Mum." .. "OK .. you know where I am if you need me." ... FFS? .. "If I need you?"" ... harsh but honest .. I could have schooled her about how some middle aged men are weirdos but I was a bit weirded out about the whole scenario so it was move away quickly time ...

Very sensible. Run away, Swifty!

 

[Swifty]

Very sensible. Run away, Swifty!

Sensible? .. it was never a question in my mind. I don't shag kids.

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

Interesting shot of his (first) grave being dug here. Tacky gravestone with spelling error. Now dust, apparently. What's horrifying about this is how close his head was to the surface...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-jimmy-savile-headstone-unveiled-1334269

 

[Peripart]

Interesting shot of his (first) grave being dug here. Tacky gravestone with spelling error. Now dust, apparently. What's horrifying about this is how close his head was to the surface...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-jimmy-savile-headstone-unveiled-1334269

Thanks for that link. It's fascinating to go back in time, as it were, and re-read what was being written about Savile at the time.

The poetry composed for him seems particularly appropriate - mainly because it's poorly written drivel. William McGonagall would've been embarrassed to have written anything so bad!

 

[pandacracker]

The poetry composed for him seems particularly appropriate - mainly because it's poorly written drivel. William McGonagall would've been embarrassed to have written anything so bad!

You're not wrong about the poetry

 

[Eponastill]

Thanks for that link. It's fascinating to go back in time, as it were, and re-read what was being written about Savile at the time.

I see 3.2 million people "liked" the article.

 

[Moth Twiceborn]

Thanks for that link. It's fascinating to go back in time, as it were, and re-read what was being written about Savile at the time.

The poetry composed for him seems particularly appropriate - mainly because it's poorly written drivel. William McGonagall would've been embarrassed to have written anything so bad!

"There was nothing he didn't do"

 

[Peripart]

I see 3.2 million people "liked" the article.

I liked the article too, but not its subject!

 

[escargot]

Interesting shot of his (first) grave being dug here.

It's still Saville's grave, just unmarked. The elaborate memorial was removed when it was realised how badly it would be defaced and damaged by angry nonce-haters.

However, the grave can be found easily enough by orienting by nearby stones as seen in newspaper reports. One day I will visit to pay my respects with a piss-bottle.

 

[titch]

It's still Saville's grave, just unmarked. The elaborate memorial was removed when it was realised how badly it would be defaced and damaged by angry nonce-haters.

However, the grave can be found easily enough by orienting by nearby stones as seen in newspaper reports. One day I will visit to pay my respects with a piss-bottle.

Why use a bottle?

 

[escargot]

Why use a bottle?

Think it through. You can carry much more piss that way.

In fact with a little planning you can collect it for a while beforehand. Gives your product a rich and pungent lingering quality.
FAR more satisfying than a straightforward pants-drop job, and easier to deliver without being apprehended.

Yup so I'm hiring one of these -

 

[Robbrent]

I've not bothered looking up his friends mentioned in the article but considering it was pretty common knowledge especially in the North West and Yorkshire I wonder how they missed it?

 

[Reverend D]

I read a really interesting book about Savile called In Plain Sight by Dan Davies, which among its many horrifying tales (one of which involving Savile calmly gouging out a man's eye in a fight in his pre-fame days) mentions that he was in an accident during his time as a coal miner and was buried alive in a rockfall for a while before being rescued.

Now, please don't think that I am trying to justify or explain Savile's actions in any way, but could he have received some sort of head trauma that made him able to commit his unconscionable crimes? Fred West's family always insisted that his personality changed when he received bad head injuries in a motorcycle crash as a young man. Is it even possible that a head or brain injury can remove or dampen someone's conscience to the extent that they could do the things those monsters did?

I hope I'm making clear that I feel that if either of these accidents did contribute to these men's appalling crimes, it in no way excuses them- each man was still able to make the choice not to abuse or murder innocent people, and, given that both were careful to cover up their actions for many years, they clearly knew that what they were doing was wrong.

I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in how Savile managed to get away with his atrocities for so long, but as you'd probably expect, it is a difficult read at times.

 

[Coastaljames]

Now, please don't think that I am trying to justify or explain Savile's actions in any way, but could he have received some sort of head trauma that made him able to commit his unconscionable crimes? Fred West's family always insisted that his personality changed when he received bad head injuries in a motorcycle crash as a young man. Is it even possible that a head or brain injury can remove or dampen someone's conscience to the extent that they could do the things those monsters did?

It's very possible yeah if he'd had head injuries. As you mention, a large percentage of serial killers have had head injuries in their pasts. A large percentage of them also had rather unhealthy relationships with their Mothers (as Saville did).

I do think what we know of Saville's actions are merely the tip of the iceberg.

I'd recommend the book to anyone interested in how Savile managed to get away with his atrocities for so long

I mean, I wonder eh...

 

[escargot]

It's true that many serious offenders are known to have suffered head injuries when younger.

However, treatable injuries to the head and to other parts of the body are not unusual in young males. They have access to dangerous activities and vehicles. Some fight and many play vigorous contact sports.

In fact it'd be a miracle if you could find a man who hasn't been knocked silly at some point.

This can apply to females too, of course. They don't generally turn into serial rapists or murderers though.

 

[Coastaljames]

In fact it'd be a miracle if you could find a man who hasn't been knocked silly at some point.

I think such injuries are bit more than being knocked out though. I mean the head injury of West left him unconcious for seven days. We're talking pretty big stuff. Also, I believe which parts of the brain are damaged are significant factors.

I'm not saying all killers and predator have suffered head injuries that cause them to offend. I just mean that many such people have and do.

 

[Frideswide]

This can apply to females too, of course. They don't generally turn into serial rapists or murderers though.

or we just don't get caught?

 

[escargot]

I think such injuries are bit more than being knocked out though. I mean the head injury of West left him unconcious for seven days. We're talking pretty big stuff. Also, I believe which parts of the brain are damaged are significant factors.

I'm not saying all killers and predator have suffered head injuries that cause them to offend. I just mean that many such people have and do.

Yup, you're right.
As you'll know though, all head injuries carry a risk of brain damage.

Can remember when working in a swimming pool area seeing a boy of about 9 running along the tiles and slipping.
He skidded and his legs went out from under him forwards and he landed more or less completely on the back of his head.
I heard the THUD from across the pool.

I offered to call an ambulance but his father wasn't having any. I said 'Then take him to hospital! Now! Chuck a shirt on him and go!'
Dad refused to do that either. I got the manager to talk to him, couldn't change his mind.

I expect Sonny was OK as I didn't hear any more of it but I wouldn't have taken that chance.
The boy needed an X-ray. We have the NHS, it's not as if it would cost anything. Stupid.

 

[Coastaljames]

he landed more or less completely on the back of his head.

Yes, this is bad. I was in a cafe in Thailand once when a very large man fell backwards on his chair.The back of his head hit the conrete floor first. The thud/splat noise was something I will never forget. He did not get up again. Horrid.

 

[feen5]

Scargy i wish you were there the day I got clocked on the head to convince me to go to hospital. I was about 10 / 11 and we were firing sticks and stones at chestnuts trying to knock them off the tree. I went to collect some under the tree and my cousin fired a big rock (probably 3/4 times the size of an orange) up and it off course came straight down on my bonce. The scariest part of it was that the whole horizon started waving and i had double vision for about 20 to 30 secs.

I just started off home (about a mile and half) with blood poring from my head. I wouldn't let anyone talk me out of it. Anyway the outcome was that i didn't even need a stitch, the blood had pretty much stopped by the time i got home and the cut was quite small.

I will never forget the way the horizon moved when i looked up after being hit or the look on some poor old dears face when he seen me coming around a corner. The blood only ran down one side of my face and body so she didn't notice anything strange until i was walking by her looking like most of the right hand side of body had been dipped in blood

Sorry not exactly on topic but if it helps its a shame Saville wasn't still buried in that mine.

 

[escargot]

Sorry not exactly on topic but if it helps its a shame Saville wasn't still buried in that mine.

Couldn't agree more!

I'm a bit over the top about head injuries because I've known of so many instances where they've been neglected with dire consequences.

Had a few bumps to the head myself too, only one of which was investigated.* Was a lively and clumsy kid, climbed on and fell off everything in sight. Parents wouldn't take me for treatment because, I believe, they were embarrassed.

The thinking used to be that if you remembered how it happened you hadn't been unconscious so didn't have a serious injury.
It's now known that patients can have various levels of concussion and symptoms don't necessarily show right away.
So a slow brain bleed can build up enough to cause serious injury in hours or days or longer and needs to be found ASAP.

Remember Natasha Richardson's death from an epidural hematoma? That was a neglected head injury. You don't want those!

* At my own insistence, nobody else cared! It was after a domestic violence incident.
Went for an X-ray and was shown in by a mate who was a student nurse. She was later happy to give me the news that nothing, that's nothing, had been found in my head.

 

[feen5]

Yep I'm a lot more cautious about them now especially since I've had a couple of other concussion incidents over the years. I certainly won't be as cavalier about them with my own little lad.

Anyway just as a side note to the side track this topic took there seems to be a lot of examples of serious head trauma causing people to change in Sports. In American Football i can think of at least ten off the top of my head, including most notably Arron Hernandez who went on to commit several murders and Junior Seau who sadly committed suicide, and all have been linked to concussive events.

If Saville's crimes are a result of brain traumas then must have spent most of his life getting smacked around the head. I prefer to think that he was just an evil bastard who knew exactly what he was doing.

 

[escargot]

Yep I'm a lot more cautious about them now especially since I've had a couple of other concussion incidents over the years. I certainly won't be as cavalier about them with my own little lad.

Anyway just as a side note to the side track this topic took there seems to be a lot of examples of serious head trauma causing people to change in Sports. In American Football i can think of at least ten off the top of my head, including most notably Arron Hernandez who went on to commit several murders and Junior Seau who sadly committed suicide, and all have been linked to concussive events.

If Saville's crimes are a result of brain traumas then must have spent most of his life getting smacked around the head. I prefer to think that he was just an evil bastard who knew exactly what he was doing.

Yup, the evidence is there. While major concussions are dangerous at the time, minor ones might not be investigated and if they are repeated can cause terrible long-term damage.

Kids in England, Wales and Northern Ireland are no longer taught to head footballs because of the risk of later brain damage.

From the BBC -

FA guidelines: Children to no longer head footballs during training

It follows Glasgow University research that showed former footballers were three-and-a-half times more likely to die from brain disease.

 

[PeteS]

My dad, thankfully, never endured sexual abuse. Just a household of physical, emotional abuse and lots of cruelty. Early 60s he finally brought his first new car after years of grafting, his pride and joy. The first day her got it, his father asked if he could give it a spin, drove it down the road and crashed it straight into a wall.

After all this sort of thing I think my Dad had a very finely tuned sense for absolute bxstards. All his life.

Dreadful story CJ. My friend at Uni had a similar father who physically abused him all his life, until the age of 16 when friend took a cricket bat to his father and beat the living daylights out of him. Crippled his fingers for life together with his knees. The guy had to walk with a stick thereafter, which was difficult with severely damaged hands. Father cowered whenever he saw his son after that and would leave the house when his friends came round. I abhor violence but just sometimes it can solve something.

 

[Mythopoeika]

This can apply to females too, of course. They don't generally turn into serial rapists or murderers though.

Do they still turn into bad people, though?

 

[escargot]

Dreadful story CJ. My friend at Uni had a similar father who physically abused him all his life, until the age of 16 when friend took a cricket bat to his father and beat the living daylights out of him. Crippled his fingers for life together with his knees. The guy had to walk with a stick thereafter, which was difficult with severely damaged hands. Father cowered whenever he saw his son after that and would leave the house when his friends came round. I abhor violence but just sometimes it can solve something.

Sounds like a collegue of mine. Same story up to the cricket bat but Colleague used his fists. His father told him never to come home again so he joined the Army and never looked back.

My mother did the battering in our house, right up until my younger brother fought back and it stopped.
I sometimes wish I'd punched her up the bracket first instead of cowering on the floor.

 

[Mythopoeika]

She was later happy to give me the news that nothing, that's nothing, had been found in my head.

When you tap your head, do you hear a hollow sound?

 

[Frideswide]

Do they still turn into bad people, though?

Nah, some of us just have the gift naturally!