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Owzabout That Then? The Jimmy Savile Revelations & Aftermath

This is on eBay at the moment for a bargain £15.99. No takers so far...

(I wasn't looking for JS-related stuff but railway things; I used to go on Merrymaker trips in the 1970s.)

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I was looking up the 1989 Princess Diana ‘squidgygate’ phone call transcript earlier (to remind myself what she had said about the Queen Mother) and I had totally forgotten that Jimmy Savile makes an unexpected appearance -

DIANA: "The redhead [ Fergie ] is being actually quite supportive."

GILBEY: "Is she?"

DIANA: "Yes, she has. I don't know why."

GILBEY: "Don't let your guard down."

DIANA: "No, I won't. I just talk to her about that side of things."

GILBEY: "You do? That's all I worry about. I just worry that, you know, she's sort of....she's desperately trying to get back in."

DIANA: "She keeps telling me."

GILBEY: "She's trying to tag onto your coat tails. She knows that your PR is so good, she's trying to tag onto that."

DIANA: "Jimmy Savile rang me up yesterday, and he said, 'I'm just ringing up, my girl, to tell you that His Nibs has asked me to come and help out the redhead, and I'm just letting you know, so that you don't find out through her or him and I hope it's all right by you.' And I said, 'Jimmy, you do what you like.'"

GILBEY: "What do you mean, 'help out the redhead,' darling?"

DIANA: "Sort her out. He said, 'You can't change a lame duck, but I've got to talk to her, 'cause that's the boss's orders, and I've got to carry them out. But I want you to know that you're my number one girl, and I'm not....'"

GILBEY: "Oh, darling, that's not fair, you're my number one girl!"

…

GILBEY: "Darling, when he says, 'His Nibs rang him up,' does he mean your 'other half' or 'PA'?"

DIANA: "Eh? My 'other half'??"

GILBEY: "Your 'other half.'" [ Prince Charles ]

DIANA: "Yes."

GILBEY: "Does he get on well with him?"

DIANA: "Sort of mentor. Talk in the mouthpiece! You moved away."
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Mark Williams-Thomas, who worked on the Savile case, has said that he is trying to bring to justice a "significant" paedophile who is "Untouchable."

In the UK.

This is open to interpretation.

Who could be untouchable by law?
In the sense nothing can be pinned on them.

A senior Royal? - But Andrew has shown this not to be the case.

A senior politician? - One or more MPS have been prosecuted or had allegations largely corroborated after death.

A senior member of the military? - They wrongly went after the head of the British military, who was innocent.

So not the above.

That leaves perhaps a senior member of the intelligence services, a head of state in a dictatorship, a multi billionaire with an army of lawyers, or a gangster?
There is a major London gangster who has never been brought to justice in spite of press allegations of fraud.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hild-sex-case-against-significant-person.html
 
Victory said:
Mark Williams-Thomas, who worked on the Savile case, has said that he is trying to bring to justice a "significant" paedophile who is "Untouchable."

That leaves perhaps a senior member of the intelligence services, a head of state in a dictatorship, a multi billionaire with an army of lawyers, or a gangster?
There is a major London gangster who has never been brought to justice in spite of press allegations of fraud.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hild-sex-case-against-significant-person.html
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They managed to get The Teflon Don (eventually) so there's always hope for here too.
 
Shady said:
Its ridiculous, no one should be above the law no one, and if they are still abusing, and something could have been done to stop it, those doing nothing should be held responsible.
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During the Louis Theroux interview with Savile I can remember Savile saying that no one could touch him because he has friends in the highest places in the land so I think yes, Savile while alive was above the law and had 'protection'.

Savile also said several times that he wasn't called the 'ring master' for nothing. A term which struck me at the time as being both odd and was implying something.
 
Victory said:
Mark Williams-Thomas, who worked on the Savile case, has said that he is trying to bring to justice a "significant" paedophile who is "Untouchable."

In the UK.

This is open to interpretation.

Who could be untouchable by law?
In the sense nothing can be pinned on them.

A senior Royal? - But Andrew has shown this not to be the case.

A senior politician? - One or more MPS have been prosecuted or had allegations largely corroborated after death.

A senior member of the military? - They wrongly went after the head of the British military, who was innocent.

So not the above.

That leaves perhaps a senior member of the intelligence services, a head of state in a dictatorship, a multi billionaire with an army of lawyers, or a gangster?
There is a major London gangster who has never been brought to justice in spite of press allegations of fraud.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...hild-sex-case-against-significant-person.html
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I suspect breaking this news in this way is an attempt to draw out more victims of abuse by 'someone important' to strengthen the case.
 
If there is such a thing as someone who is 'untouchable' before UK law it won't be just their social position. It will also revolve around wealth, conformity to the narrative, and 'knowing where the (metaphorical, I hope) bodies are buried'. I believe Savile came in to the 'knowing' category. He was a very devious character with all sorts of contacts, at all levels of society.

By all means rewatch the Theroux documentaries - with hindsight they are chilling and deeply disturbing.
 
kesavaross said:
Savile also said several times that he wasn't called the 'ring master' for nothing. A term which struck me at the time as being both odd and was implying something.
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I've never watched the Theroux documentary but reading that literally gave me the chills. Makes it sound like a real life perverted version of line of duty.
 
Cloudbusting said:
I've never watched the Theroux documentary but reading that literally gave me the chills. Makes it sound like a real life perverted version of line of duty.
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I've mentioned this here before but Savile being interviewed by psychiatrist Dr Anthony Clare in 1991 also makes truly disturbing listening.

I can't bear listening to it again but I remember him coming across as a massively unpleasant and a deeply disturbed and disturbing person when I heard it at the time.

https://archive.org/details/inthepsychiatristschairsirjamessavile
 
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cycleboy2 said:
I've mentioned this here before but Savile being interviewed by psychiatrist Dr Anthony Clare in 1991 also makes truly disturbing listening.

I can't bear listening to it again but I remember him coming across as a massively unpleasant and a deeply disturbed and disturbing person when I heard it at the time.

https://archive.org/details/inthepsychiatristschairsirjamessavile
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I'd heard of this and now listened to it.
The absolutely first impression that comes across is that he's actually proud to have no moral limiter. Right from the get go, he declares he cannot say no to anything. He actually declares that he cannot refuse himself anything, that he cannot limit or control his behaviour. :(
 
cycleboy2 said:
I've mentioned this here before but Savile being interviewed by psychiatrist Dr Anthony Clare in 1991 also makes truly disturbing listening.

I can't bear listening to it again but I remember him coming across as a massively unpleasant and a deeply disturbed and disturbing person when I heard it at the time.

https://archive.org/details/inthepsychiatristschairsirjamessavile
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I remember hearing this at the time and being rather shocked at how dislikeable he was.

I can't remember if it was this interview where he has talked about his childhood (which sounded grim/probably abusive). I know I had the impression from an interview with him that he might have been abused himself as a child - psychologically/physically (violence and possibly sexual).
 
Cherrybomb said:
Celebrity arrests could soar after horrified police discover Jimmy Savile's secret lair at record shop

Stunned officers chipped away plaster at a record shop wall and unveiled a hidden list of names thought to belong to young victims of Jimmy Savile.
The vile register, which contained the names, ages and a disgusting ratings system seemingly used to mark their sexual performance, was scrawled on a secret wall buried behind layers of wallpaper and plaster.
A source revealed: “The wall looked like something straight out of a horror movie. There were lists and lists of names of the victims – it’s a shocking discovery.”
The list of girls and young women is thought to identify hundreds of potential new victims abused at the hands of the BBC DJ and it raised fears Savile was at the centre of a celebrity paedophile ring.

More on the link: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/jimmy-savi ... ld-2097740
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This went away pretty sharply.
 
cycleboy2 said:
I've mentioned this here before but Savile being interviewed by psychiatrist Dr Anthony Clare in 1991 also makes truly disturbing listening.

I can't bear listening to it again but I remember him coming across as a massively unpleasant and a deeply disturbed and disturbing person when I heard it at the time.

https://archive.org/details/inthepsychiatristschairsirjamessavile
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This was fascinating! Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I may actually listen to it again.

In my non-trained mind, he seems to me to be smart, confident, no anxiety about his life or his refusal to take responsibility for his actions, superficially happy, and very much lacking self-awareness. His interpretation of the world is hard to dispute because he lacks the ability to understand others' perspectives. No empathy. (Plus the massive lying and manipulation, etc.)

I have run across people like this - but not to the extent of his predatory ways - and have always been struck by how easy it is for them to go through life with no conscience. I stay away because of the clear debris trail of wrecked people in their wake.
 
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Endlessly Amazed said:
This was fascinating! Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I may actually listen to it again.

In my non-trained mind, he seems to me to be smart, confident, no anxiety about his life or his refusal to take responsibility for his actions, superficially happy, and very much lacking self-awareness. His interpretation of the world is hard to dispute because he lacks the ability to understand others' perspectives. No empathy. (Plus the massive lying and manipulation, etc.)

I have run across people like this - but not to the extent of his predatory ways - and have always been struck by how easy it is for them to go through life with no conscience. I stay away because of the clear debris trail of wrecked people in their wake.
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Yep - My lifelong view has been that people such as the revolting JS have a much happier life if they have no perception or conscience. Some inevitably however come to a sticky end as we have seen over the past few years.
 
escargot said:
This went away pretty sharply.
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Reading the article linked to reveals…not much.

Most of it is innuendo, accompanied by a large amount of generic “filler” from news archives. The exact nature of the “register” is not revealed: Was it an actual book, or just - as l infer - simply names and numbers scrawled on a wall?

There is no direct link to Savile even implied. Surely, if JS had a demonstrable connection to the shop, it would have been mentioned?

Bottom line: Someone has reported to the police that some names and numbers have been found scrawled on a shop wall. The Mirror has put two and two together and come up with 647. They’ve also filled several empty column inches with wild speculation concerning a popular hate figure who’s no longer around to set his lawyers on them: Trebles all round!

maximus otter
 
JamesWhitehead said:
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I just love the fact that you could also pay £1 for the book!
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There's a photo of the book a few pages back, possibly posted by the public-spirited @cycleboy2. :)

As discussed on the other JS thread, Savile was also involved in a major government child safety campaign aimed at preventing accidents in the home.

Most child deaths are caused by accidents, we were told.
Well yeah, a chronic shortage of diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and polio will do that. :thought:

There was a TV series and every household, or possibly just ones with children, received a booklet about it. My kids were toddlers so I was in the target audience and took careful notice.
 
maximus otter said:
Reading the article linked to reveals…not much.

Most of it is innuendo, accompanied by a large amount of generic “filler” from news archives. The exact nature of the “register” is not revealed: Was it an actual book, or just - as l infer - simply names and numbers scrawled on a wall?

There is no direct link to Savile even implied. Surely, if JS had a demonstrable connection to the shop, it would have been mentioned?

Bottom line: Someone has reported to the police that some names and numbers have been found scrawled on a shop wall. The Mirror has put two and two together and come up with 647. They’ve also filled several empty column inches with wild speculation concerning a popular hate figure who’s no longer around to set his lawyers on them: Trebles all round!

maximus otter
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The allegation appears to be a garbled response (either misunderstood, or deliberately misreported) to an element of the Ray Teret case.

Teret had provable connections to Savile, and on one of the wall's of Teret's flat - above his record shop in Sale - were found names and telephone numbers that had since been covered in wallpaper. I believe only two were ever traced to victims willing to appear in Teret's subsequent trial (although there is little doubt that other abused young women were on that list).

The sober reality appears to be that Teret used the wall as a contact list; there were definitely victims listed, but there appears to be no actual proof that all the numbers were connected to abuse - and the idea that there was a list of guilty celebrities appears to be complete fantasy.

Remarkably, there's footage of the actual uncovering of the graffiti - recorded as part of the BBC's excellent documentary series The Detectives. (Of course, being the BBC I'm sure that'll pull some triggers, but any alleged conspiracy would also have had to involve Greater Manchester Police and two proven victims as well.)

To my mind, there's something much more horrific in the quiet reality of this reveal (at around 54:00 onwards) than there is in the grand guignolesque tabloid (mis)reporting, which always - it seems to me - appears to value the naming of Names far more than it values the actual victims of the abuse.


I think there were another two episodes dedicated to the Teret case - well worth tracking down.
 
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