People Who Feel Wrong

Reading all the above reminded me of Jack Nicholson's Joker:

-" You are a vicious bastard.... I'm glad you're dead. " Link to it spoken in Jack's inimitable style.

I was always told that you didn't speak ill of the dead as they weren't there to defend themselves. As some of them were people who picked on those who couldn't defend themselves it seemed fair enough to me!
 
that actress was in The Haunting

It's an early version of "in space no-one can hear you scream" (1979 Alien) isn't it? Both excellent works

By the by, is anyone else haunted (see what I did there?) by the cup of stars in Jackson's Haunting of Hill House?did it make it into the films?
 
For some typically bonkers reason, I'd misremembered, and wrongly thought that the wondrous cup featured in We Have Always Lived in the Castle; I guess the cup just seemed like the kind of talismanic/magical/vital object Merricat might favour, like the buried coins and the book nailed to a tree...all so metaphoric.

So much of WHALitC feels important and meaningful, as if one is meant to read between the lines in order to enter that world of white and black magic; a thin veil indeed.
 
Being married is no indicator of sexual preference.
George Melly was bisexual and went from homosexual in his early years to 'mostly' heterosexual in his thirties. I went to school with his son Tom (still a friend) and his family actually found it funny when the occasional press report ... er ... came out about his gay past.
"My mum used to brag that she made my dad go straight!"
 
Being married is no indicator of sexual preference.
George Melly was bisexual and went from homosexual in his early years to 'mostly' heterosexual in his thirties. I went to school with his son Tom (still a friend) and his family actually found it funny when the occasional press report ... er ... came out about his gay past.
"My mum used to brag that she made my dad go straight!"
Another example was the singer Lou Reed. He started out gay, then became bisexual, then met Laurie Anderson and became totally straight.
Michael Portillo had a similar trajectory.
 
, I'd misremembered, and wrongly thought that the wondrous cup featured in We Have Always Lived in the Castle; I guess the cup just seemed like the kind of talismanic/magical/vital object Merricat might favour, like the buried coins and the book nailed to a tree...all so metaphoric.

It certainly does... are you sure it isn't something of Merricat's? :dunno:
 
I don't like homophobic jokes either but c'monnn? .. Blair was Narnia mate? .. the Mrs's boss is married with a kid but he's off the scale gay. He even used to flirt with me and that's leaving aside his obsession with Simon le Bon/Duran Duran and that his best mate's a gay vicar who's about to bury his just deceased Dad.
Lionel probably wasn't gay - he was just theatrical.
Blair wasn't gay all, just, yup, theatrical. There was no basis for the jokes.
They were unkind. They weren't mocking his camp TV persona, which would have been bad enough; they present him as sleazy and sex-mad.
Blair himself held old-fashioned views on issues such as same-sex marriage. When a man jokily called him a 'fairy' in public, Blair punched him in the face.
He really didn't like it. Who would?
 
Blair wasn't gay all, just, yup, theatrical. There was no basis for the jokes.
They were unkind. They weren't mocking his camp TV persona, which would have been bad enough; they present him as sleazy and sex-mad.
Blair himself held old-fashioned views on issues such as same-sex marriage. When a man jokily called him a 'fairy' in public, Blair punched him in the face.
He really didn't like it. Who would?
I didn't know that. He went full on Buzz Aldrin then.
 
The discussion here reminds me of some woefully misguided advice given by the late Daily Mirror columnist Marjorie Proops back in the '70s.

quick repost -
Can remember reading in her Daily Mirror column a question from a teenage boy about his anguish at being called a pouf by classmates. Proops' advice was to play up to it and act as camp as possible.
WAY to get his head kicked in. :dunno:

Then you have Elton John's wise words after sueing British tabloids for printing untrue stories about orgies involving underage participants:

They can say I’m a fat old cunt, they can say I’m an untalented bastard, they can call me a poof, but they mustn’t tell lies about me.





 
As I've mentioned, we have a colleague who's caused such trouble she's (hopefully) about to be sacked.

None of the males will be alone with her in case she accuses them of making advances. Anything said to or in front of her, or overheard as she lurks behind doors, might be interpreted as a personal attack and reported to the management.
She's even left her phone out to record people's work conversations. That's a sackable offence in any workplace.

We're putting it down to a mental disorder. Paranoia seems to come into it.
If so that's her problem and she needs to get some help, not lumber us.

She doesn't bother me apart from rabbiting on about rubbish. I just look at my watch, say 'Oooh, time to go! Those one-armed window-cleaners' rags won't wring themselves!' and stroll away, often breaking wind; if it happens, it happens.

I might be copping the least of it all because she's wary of me. Well, you would be, wouldn't you.
This person has now left - pushed? Jumped? I dunno, it's confidential, and I care even less. :dunno:

I thought there must be news when our boss suddenly appeared back to his previously cheerful and affable self instead of looking like a haunted man. :)

He's a good boss. I never give him any trouble.
Well, apart from a spot of mickeytaking. Everyone cops that. :nods:

He hasn't spotted the noticeboard yet. :wink2:
 
This person has now left - pushed? Jumped? I dunno, it's confidential, and I care even less. :dunno:

I thought there must be news when our boss suddenly appeared back to his previously cheerful and affable self instead of looking like a haunted man. :)

He's a good boss. I never give him any trouble.
Well, apart from a spot of mickeytaking. Everyone cops that. :nods:

He hasn't spotted the noticeboard yet. :wink2:
Jesus. Christmas has come early for your male co workers and I bet the female staff didn't like her much either.

Where I've just been working, I was told in my job interview I'd be sometimes helping out cleaning hotel rooms but that didn't happen after I was hired. I asked my immediate manager about that and he replied "We've had men working upstairs with the women before and it just doesn't work out." I'm very grateful he made that decision for me.
 
Here's the work noticeboard, highlighting my subtle amendment. :bthumbup:
The heading was cut from the footy page of some tabloid.

Nobody's mentioned it so either it hasn't been noticed or my workmates are playing the long game and waiting to see who owns up.
TOP pranking all round. :chuckle:
 

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Another example was the singer Lou Reed. He started out gay, then became bisexual, then met Laurie Anderson and became totally straight.
Michael Portillo had a similar trajectory.
Bisexuality is a thing. People can move up and down the scale of who they are attracted to, they may be attracted more to the person than to the sex that they are. I doubt Lou Reed started out gay and became bisexual, he was always bisexual. He then met someone he fell deeply in love with and stayed with her, he didn't become straight.

I'm straight as a ruler myself, but do get a wee bit annoyed when people misunderstand bisexuality.
 
Bisexuality is a thing. People can move up and down the scale of who they are attracted to, they may be attracted more to the person than to the sex that they are. I doubt Lou Reed started out gay and became bisexual, he was always bisexual. He then met someone he fell deeply in love with and stayed with her, he didn't become straight.

I'm straight as a ruler myself, but do get a wee bit annoyed when people misunderstand bisexuality.
I was surprise seduced by a friend a few years ago who was (I thought) a lesbian when I met her. She just snogged me one night. I knew her girlfriend as well before she'd sadly died. After me and this woman slept with each other the same night, I even said "I thought you were a lesbian?" then she reminded me she's got a daughter. She told her daughter who was angry with me about it but has since calmed down. Her daughter told her she's pansexual which apparently means she's into people's personalities which I didn't know about. She just pounced on me that night and I went along with it. She'd not even so much as flirted with me before that and we'd known each other for years. I still sometimes bump into her in the local shop and we're civil but I don't visit her anymore. The Mrs told her she's "a f*****g b**ch*".
 
Bisexuality is a thing. People can move up and down the scale of who they are attracted to, they may be attracted more to the person than to the sex that they are. I doubt Lou Reed started out gay and became bisexual, he was always bisexual. He then met someone he fell deeply in love with and stayed with her, he didn't become straight.

I'm straight as a ruler myself, but do get a wee bit annoyed when people misunderstand bisexuality.
I don't misunderstand bisexuality, because... I am bisexual (well, a bit).
I think that almost everyone apart from a small percentage is bisexual, to a greater or lesser degree. Most people don't recognise it or are in denial that they might be bisexual.
Lou Reed was exclusively gay before he met Laurie Anderson, which - like you say - indicates that he was always bisexual.
Tom Robinson, who was a gay campaigner back in the 70s, has ended up in a relationship with a woman - which shows that he is probably bisexual - but he really, really, doesn't like to be called 'bisexual'. An odd stance to take, I think.
 
It takes two to tango.
A persons sexual preference isn't, really, obvious and so it shouldn't be assumed.
I'm hetero but completely comfortable with others choices. It isn't my position to even care. It's not my problem apart from liking them and supporting them as a friend. Sexuality? What has it got to do with me?
I'll stand up for them, stand beside them, if it comes to it and asked for but I make no assumptions.
 
Jesus. Christmas has come early for your male co workers and I bet the female staff didn't like her much either.

Where I've just been working, I was told in my job interview I'd be sometimes helping out cleaning hotel rooms but that didn't happen after I was hired. I asked my immediate manager about that and he replied "We've had men working upstairs with the women before and it just doesn't work out." I'm very grateful he made that decision for me.
Yup, problem is that it only takes one idiot to disrupt the work environment.
Our Friend or 'Flossie' or y'know (head jerk), as she was variously referred to, had everyone except me jumping.
 
Yes, I didn't even go to my stepmother's funeral. Felt it would be hypocritical of me and I'd find that harder to live with myself afterwards, if I'd gone although on the surface, I was cordial enough with her in her final years (only tolerated to make my dad happy). I get what Mikefule means, though. Stepmother was right up there as the vilest human being I ever met. She had 4 kids. Two of them became massively deluded about her, even fond of her, including the daughter she used as a slave. The younger two loathed her and felt precisely the same way about her that I did. Even though we didn't get on, as kids - as adults, they saw her objectively. (And one of those who hated her was her "favourite"). Human nature is strange. The child she put upon the most ended up seeing her as a saint. The child she worshipped ended up seeing her as something else entirely - precisely how I saw her and I was the one she attacked and emotionally abused for years - her biggest target of all. Years ago, the older daughters seemed less deluded about her but by the time she was a frail old lady, seemed to have forgotten her years of abuse and aggression. No accounting for it because years back, they seemed to understand what she was. Then they didn't.

The two daughters who eventually saw her for what she was, both attended the funeral. I had no intention of going and nor did anyone from our family. I literally couldn't have found a good thing to say about her. What sort of woman attacks a motherless child and makes its life hell for many years? She had zero redeeming features. But notably, in later years, became an ardent christian and was first in that church every Sunday which seemed to take many people in and made people who should have known better, forget who or what she was. Which was, I guess, the point of the sudden conversion.
I know a family whose mother had various kids by 3 different fathers. She was apparently an appalling neglectful mother and died in her 60's due to self neglect. All the kids attended her funeral except one who told me that she couldn't be so hypocritical having been treated utterly terribly by her. The subject came up in a conversation with a female friend who was very close to me at the time. Said friend came up with "the mother probably did the best she could in the circumstances". I was astonished at that remark to say the least but it came out that (no longer) friend had been very violent towards her own children who now have absolutely nothing to do with her. I suspect it is a lot more common than we think.
 
Yup, problem is that it only takes one idiot to disrupt the work environment.
Our Friend or 'Flossie' or y'know (head jerk), as she was variously referred to, had everyone except me jumping.
I find it virtually impossible now I'm getting on a bit (!) to hold my tongue when dealing with morons. I have to in certain circumstances to protect the feelings of others but it's very hard :). If I was still working it really would be impossible. I admire your tenacity.
 
This hits a tad near the bone for me.
I went out with a single mum (of one daughter) for a few years. We had a boy together - my son. Then we had a very acrimonious split-up and, to my shame, I lost contact with both her and the kids.
Wind the time-machine forward to a few years ago. Thanks to my wife, I managed to re-establish contact with my son. A rocky start but we'd sorted things out between us and we had a good relationship in the end. I'd discovered that after I'd gone - I'd even left the area - she had another child with the next boy friend. My sons new step-dad was physically abusive while his mum was so off her face with cannabis and booze use, she didn't actually care. My son grew up with issues - expected - but he wasn't as screwed up as he might've been.
At my son's funeral, I got to meet the young woman his step-sister had become and his mum - who by that time had left his abuser and was living with yet another bloke. My ex- looked a mess, underweight (she'd always been thin), teeth missing, and completely zombie-like. With charity, I might think this was grief ... but it seemed deeper than that.
At least his abuser didn't turn up to the funeral. Apparently, he'd a while ago told his sister "If he comes to my funeral, I'm not coming!"

Thing is, to my guilt and shame, his 'new' dad seemed okay to me. I knew him before the break-up. I was almost satisfied - for all those years - that X and my ex would be good parents. How wrong I was!
 
Never 'speaking ill of the dead' is a hang-over from the Romans. It's the fear that if you call someone a sh*t after they've died then their ghost will come after you.
It's as if no one who are b'stards ever die.
While not taking anything away from parents who lose a child who dies (I include myself), it's really amazing how when a child dies in an accident or so on, is 'always popular', 'absolutely loved', 'a great loss to their classmates' and so on.
I understand how you would never want to harm the memory of the parents - absolutely - but it's amazing how the bad never die.

As far as my torturer was concerned, I got my revenge - short, sharp and done with.
I'd been 'asked to leave' the school (v. long story) at the next half-term break. I encountered my bully in the same bathrooms that he'd struck at me. I stood behind him while he rinsed his face in the basin. He looked up and saw me looking over his shoulder. I grabbed the back of his head and smacked his face in the mirror.
All I said was "I have nothing to lose" and walked off.
I am not proud, I'm not saying I should have done it. It was done.
At least for two weeks after that incident, he felt the anticipation, the FEAR that he gave me and several other victims.
Yep I find it strange that these kids are without fail referred to as "cheeky/full of life/independent" etc etc when really they were uncontrollable brats. Hypocritical but entirely understandable.
My recently deceased mate( who abhorred violence even from an early age) had problems with a bully at school until one day said mate cornered the lad after school and beat the crap out of him (so much so that he was off school for a week). Said bully was warned that if he blabbed he would get the same treatment every day. The lad moved schools shortly after and was apparently mercilessly bullied himself, word had got around. He died in his 30's and we always pondered whether there is a connection between being a bully and an early demise for whatever reason. The one exception I am aware of is the moron at the school I attended who went on to achieve the highest honours in the UK and is now Lord somebody. I was sorely tempted to post something appropriate on his social media but I guess it would simply be taken down. He is apparently stuck with his 30 something son who still lives with mummy and daddy, but they do live in a palace.
 
I find it virtually impossible now I'm getting on a bit (!) to hold my tongue when dealing with morons. I have to in certain circumstances to protect the feelings of others but it's very hard :). If I was still working it really would be impossible. I admire your tenacity.
My way of dealing with her was to remember that interactions between us were pointless because she didn't listen to a word I said. We were not actually holding conversations; I was just the gramophone trumpet to her Nipper. :dunno:

Like this -
:wink2:
(Could watch that 20 times a day. :D)
 
I know a family whose mother had various kids by 3 different fathers. She was apparently an appalling neglectful mother and died in her 60's due to self neglect. All the kids attended her funeral except one who told me that she couldn't be so hypocritical having been treated utterly terribly by her. The subject came up in a conversation with a female friend who was very close to me at the time. Said friend came up with "the mother probably did the best she could in the circumstances". I was astonished at that remark to say the least but it came out that (no longer) friend had been very violent towards her own children who now have absolutely nothing to do with her. I suspect it is a lot more common than we think.
A few years back, I was doing some genealogy and got a lot of help from a local-ish woman via email, who someone had steered me to as we descended from the same (large) farming family. She had a really common surname, one many people I grew up with have, so I didn't realise at first but slowly, as we emailed back and forth (she had some great photos to send me of mutual ancestors) it dawned on me she was a woman I had grown up 2 doors down from.

And the thing was, my mum had loathed her. So we had little to do with them. The dislike was mutual.

They had never, when my mum was alive, known they were related.

My great grandma had been abandoned as a child. She had feckless parents, a farm labourer and his wife. It was a second marriage for my great great grandad and he had a slew of kids from marriage 1, then a slew of kids from marriage 2. He kept them all. Except one. My great grandma was born when first wife was still alive but he must have already been seeing the woman who became wife 2. Anyway, wife 1 died and he married his girlfriend. And sent my great grandma, still a baby, off to live with her older half brother.

Only my greatgrandma was dumped on an older brother to bring her up, 30 miles away in a city. The brother and his wife treated her like a slave and when she hit adulthood, she ran away back home where she married a fairly prosperous farmer (my great grandad). She had been illegitimate. The first child born to the second wife, when my grt grt grandad's first wife was still alive. So in this massive load of kids, only my great grandma was illegitimate.

She never spoke to her birth family again, except one time. When her father died, she was now married to my great grandad, living on the farm, had her own happy family and one night one of her brothers turned up on the doorstep, and told her her dad had died and did she want to go to the funeral. She told him essentially to eff off - her dad had never bothered with her when he was alive, why should she go to the funeral - and slammed the door in his face. From what I was told, the brother didn't even get to step foot inside the farmhouse.

There was no memory of any of this in our family - but the kids from the second marriage all remembered their sister/half sister and how she'd told one of them to go stick it where the sun don't shine and refused to go to her dad's funeral. This would have been the 1920s or so but they were still going on about it in that side of the family in the 1960s, I was told.

And this old neighbour of our's turned out to be the grand-daughter of one of the estranged brothers. So a close relative of my mum. (She'd lived 2 doors down from us for decades but they rarely spoke and when they did, the subject of who their grandparents were must have never come up!)

Ex neighbour was nothing but lovely to me by email. We'd been chatting quite a while before I realised she was Mrs J. The local family history society had put me on to her. But when I first emailed her didn't even know she came from the same village.

The old neighbour told me whenever they went past the farm they'd say that was where their rich relatives lived who'd have nowt to do with them. They were all farm labourers. My abused and abandoned great grandma none of them had lifted a finger to help, ended up with the big Georgian farmhouse and 100 acres... She turned into some mythic figure amongst them, the old neighbour told me. They admired her too, oddly, that she'd told them to stuff it.

Meanwhile, my mum never even knew any of these relatives existed... Her grandma must never have mentioned them at all. I even found mention of my great ggrandma's dodgy dad in a little local history monograph. The writer quoted someone describing him as "a right little villain" lol. He seems to have been well dodgy. His brother was York's chief of police in the 1880s! My mum did vaguely know she had some relatives/uncles who were "policemen" but that was all she knew. In fact, my prosperous farmer great grandad was briefly a copper too, we only recently found out. Til he returned to farming.

We only realised my great grandma had been born in a workhouse when I got on Ancestry and then saw her in the city, not at home, and realised her mother went on to have loads more kids after her, but never recalled her home. I can't imagine how it must have felt, being the only illegitimate one in a vast family, at a time when that was looked down on. Then dumped by your entire family. Then asked to go to the funeral of your dumper.

It turns out my great great grandad, though was a proper villain who also abandoned one of his children but kept all the rest. I only "know" him through the genealogy I've done (my mum never mentioned him), and stumbling on that snippet about him being a crim in the local history book (it was quoting the letters of someone from his village who appears to have been his landlord - apparently he'd con locals out of large sums of money then never pay it back). But I did get a really bad feeling about him, even so, like one of the wrong uns we talk about here.
 
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A few years back, I was doing some genealogy and got a lot of help from a local-ish woman via email, who someone had steered me to as we descended from the same (large) farming family. She had a really common surname, one many people I grew up with have, so I didn't realise at first but slowly, as we emailed back and forth (she had some great photos to send me of mutual ancestors) it dawned on me she was a woman I had grown up 2 doors down from.

And the thing was, my mum had loathed her. So we had little to do with them. The dislike was mutual.

They had never, when my mum was alive, known they were related.

My great grandma had been abandoned as a child. She had feckless parents, a farm labourer and his wife. It was a second marriage for my great great grandad and he had a slew of kids from marriage 1, then a slew of kids from marriage 2. He kept them all. Except one. My great grandma was born when first wife was still alive but he must have already been seeing the woman who became wife 2. Anyway, wife 1 died and he married his girlfriend. And sent my great grandma, still a baby, off to live with her older half brother.

Only my greatgrandma was dumped on an older brother to bring her up, 30 miles away in a city. The brother and his wife treated her like a slave and when she hit adulthood, she ran away back home where she married a fairly prosperous farmer (my great grandad). She had been illegitimate. The first child born to the second wife, when my grt grt grandad's first wife was still alive. So in this massive load of kids, only my great grandma was illegitimate.

She never spoke to her birth family again, except one time. When her father died, she was now married to my great grandad, living on the farm, had her own happy family and one night one of her brothers turned up on the doorstep, and told her her dad had died and did she want to go to the funeral. She told him essentially to eff off - her dad had never bothered with her when he was alive, why should she go to the funeral - and slammed the door in his face. From what I was told, the brother didn't even get to step foot inside the farmhouse.

There was no memory of any of this in our family - but the kids from the second marriage all remembered their sister/half sister and how she'd told one of them to go stick it where the sun don't shine and refused to go to her dad's funeral. This would have been the 1920s or so but they were still going on about it in that side of the family in the 1960s, I was told.

And this old neighbour of our's turned out to be the grand-daughter of one of the estranged brothers. So a close relative of my mum. (She'd lived 2 doors down from us for decades but they rarely spoke and when they did, the subject of who their grandparents were must have never come up!)

Ex neighbour was nothing but lovely to me by email. We'd been chatting quite a while before I realised she was Mrs J. The local family history society had put me on to her. But when I first emailed her didn't even know she came from the same village.

The old neighbour told me whenever they went past the farm they'd say that was where their rich relatives lived who'd have nowt to do with them. They were all farm labourers. My abused and abandoned great grandma none of them had lifted a finger to help, ended up with the big Georgian farmhouse and 100 acres... She turned into some mythic figure amongst them, the old neighbour told me. They admired her too, oddly, that she'd told them to stuff it.

Meanwhile, my mum never even knew any of these relatives existed... Her grandma must never have mentioned them at all. I even found mention of my great ggrandma's dodgy dad in a little local history monograph. The writer quoted someone describing him as "a right little villain" lol. He seems to have been well dodgy. His brother was York's chief of police in the 1880s! My mum did vaguely know she had some relatives/uncles who were "policemen" but that was all she knew. In fact, my prosperous farmer great grandad was briefly a copper too, we only recently found out. Til he returned to farming.

We only realised my great grandma had been born in a workhouse when I got on Ancestry and then saw her in the city, not at home, and realised her mother went on to have loads more kids after her, but never recalled her home. I can't imagine how it must have felt, being the only illegitimate one in a vast family, at a time when that was looked down on. Then dumped by your entire family. Then asked to go to the funeral of your dumper.

It turns out my great great grandad, though was a proper villain who also abandoned one of his children but kept all the rest. I only "know" him through the genealogy I've done (my mum never mentioned him), and stumbling on that snippet about him being a crim in the local history book (it was quoting the letters of someone from his village who appears to have been his landlord - apparently he'd con locals out of large sums of money then never pay it back). But I did get a really bad feeling about him, even so, like one of the wrong uns we talk about here.
That's interesting. The person I mentioned in my post was abandoned by her mother and father into a children's home/foster parents and yet they kept the rest of their kids. Despite her dreadful upbringing she turned out to be an intelligent adult with a great career.
 
That's interesting. The person I mentioned in my post was abandoned by her mother and father into a children's home/foster parents and yet they kept the rest of their kids. Despite her dreadful upbringing she turned out to be an intelligent adult with a great career.
Yes, it was probably the making of her in some strange way. My great grandma seems to be remembered with a lot of affection and seems to have been a kind and capable woman - the other side of the family totally understood her reaction, too, it seems. I can't imagine the damage that would do to a child to be abandoned like that, knowing all the later kids from the relationship were kept!
 
Somebody I knew, decent sort, no kids.

Turned out she had a daughter who was given up for adoption.

(60s, Father wouldnt marry her though they were in a relationship, religion, you know).

Probably a good thing as she was career minded and never would have made a good mother...
 
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