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People Who Foresee Their Own Death

Cochise said:
I think a lot of the time our subconscious is actually ahead of our consciousness and has to - I don't know - find ways to break throiugh?
Current thinking on the brain reckons this happens all the time, not just a lot of the time.

Our sub-conscious is supposed to be comprised of many sub-routines, each responsible for running sections of our life, and most of the time the conscious mind doesn't need to know all the details involved. Our breathing continues, and our hearts keep beating, while for the most part we are unaware of these activities. If an insect flies towards our eyes, or our hands touch something hot, relex reactions cause us to blink, or pull the hand away, and only afterwards does the consciousness realise what happened.

Some people reckon that consciousness is just a passive observer, and has no power to do anything. If you 'choose' to eat a raw carrot instead of a chocolate bar, it may well be that the real decision was made somewhere in your digestive system, and 'you' only picked up on it and then claimed it to be an example of 'your' will-power!

More ideas here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_Explained
 
I'd heard of that theory. So much for free will, huh? :)
 
The recent death of the singer Cilla Black was interesting in a slightly Fortean way.


She was 72 and though, according to her friends, she had complained of the growing infirmities of age and was somewhat down about them, there was no illness or overwhelming depression to make her sudden departure seem less of a shock. The thing of interest though is that as recently as last year she was widely reported as saying she didn't want to live past 75, despite its nearness, and that it was a good age to go.


This would lend credence to one close friend claiming she willed herself to die as she was down about her failing senses. He also added the detail that her last words to him in recent weeks were that "Bobby (her late husband) was waiting for her"...with its unspoken implication of either a ghostly communication or a sense of foreboding/wishing to go.


What makes the wish fulfilment interpretation of her well timed demise so interesting though is that we now know her death was partially accidental. She is believed to have had a fall and banged her head resulting in a stroke. This is surely not something she could have willed upon herself? So how did she appear to know death was so close?

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I seem to remember Peter Ustinov, I think, telling how his father or some such had declared decades in advance that he would only live to such and such an age..lets say 70...and in seeming perfect health upped and died on that very birthday.

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The late controversial but amusing Tory MP Alan Clark, i recall reading, had an obsessive fear that he would die of a brain tumor....and did.

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These last few you might put down to some kind of self programming, like the victims of voodoo are imagined to suffer. Indira Ghandi referencing her possible assasination the day before it happened can be put down to coincidence.


But its impossible to watch Martin Luther King's final speech before he was shot and believe he did not know and expect to imminently die.


This is explained away by those who try as him having recently recieved death threats...but one suspects if he did it would be as out of the ordinary as you or I recieving junk mail. Watching him and hearing his words the man clearly knew something specific and certain about his fate. But from where? There is no known conspiracy involving his killer to explain it. And if he did know from an ordinary informant why not avoid it? Could he have consented to his own death? Or was the - seeming - knowledge apparent in this speech recieved by extraordinary means?


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In 2008 teenager Ben Kinsella was stabbed to death as an innocent by stander to a gang fight. His family found an essay he wrote for a creative writing class a couple of weeks before his death.


"Describing an attack startlingly similar to the one he suffered, Ben wrote: "I've been stabbed, three times in the chest, twice in the back, once in the gut for good measure.


"The pavement feels so very cold on my so very punctured back. Everything feels cold. Numbness persists. As I stare up at my killer-to-be he feels not the slightest measure of remorse at what he has just committed. Instead his dark smile sickens me in ways I couldn't imagine."



Then, describing his emotions in heaven, he said: "I just feel free. Free from anger, worries, anguish and pain."

"I can only wonder whether I deserve to die here, now. Was it all for a reason? Who can say?
"As my mind becomes inflamed with questions I can only feel the pain pass over me like a shadow. Blood escapes my wounds. Blood once destined for greatness now seeps into the drains."

Later on he said: "I knew I was gone and couldn't ever come back. I just wished I had the strength to say goodbye. I was dead now."


Ben then described meeting his grandfather, aunties and uncles in heaven.

He ended the essay by writing: "This is my home now and I've never felt better. I'm not scared any more. There's no weight on my shoulders, no struggle.

"I'll never say I'm glad he did it because, well, I'm simply not. But I much prefer it here than being stuck on a weird world."


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Thoughts, examples, wild speculations?
 
On the day he was admitted to a hospice for palliative care, my late partner announced to me that he had two months left to live. Unsure how best to respond to that statement, I told him he couldn't be certain of that because his oncologist hadn't specified an exact time frame. Naturally, the oncologist couldn't make an exact prediction and had said only that the remaining time was best measured in months rather than years. My partner nevertheless insisted he would live only another two months. That is exactly what happened: he died two months to the day after arriving in the hospice.

My partner's situation of course differs from the examples cited by gattino in that he knew he was terminally ill with a brain tumour. Perhaps his statement about the two-month time frame was just a guess. He was so adamant about it, however, that since the day of his death I have wondered if he somehow knew exactly when the end would come. He definitely wasn't resigned to his fate. His attitude was very much "do not go gentle into that good night." He was raging against the dying of the light for as long as he could, so I'm not inclined to think it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It puzzles me to this day.
 
Revva Steenkamp painting.jpg


Whether this is properly "forecasting" one's own death or not, this painting by a teenage Reeva Steenkamp is a bit chilling. It shows a man with a gun, an angel and a ladder - to heaven, one assumes.

Then there is the famous case of Abraham Lincoln's own death premonition.

My best friend had said for years that he would die at age 36 from lung cancer. Age 36 came and went without incident, so I thought he was full of it, doom and gloom as usual, but a couple of years later he became ill from lung cancer and died very soon after that.

I do have a theory that putting undue attention - especially negative attention - conciously or unconciously, on any one thing causes issues to emerge around that thing. This sounds a bit like my grandmother's superstition that talking about a tragedy causes it to happen, but I think it's more subtle that that. I think that somehow our behaviors, our environment and our physical beings are influenced by our innermost thoughts. For example, I didn't have problems with my teeth until I began to worry what would happen if I developed problems with my teeth. It was as if I'd cursed myself! :(

I do think a "matrix" like scenario is possible but it's not alien overlords, it's just us mucking things around.
 
On the day he was admitted to a hospice for palliative care, my late partner announced to me that he had two months left to live. Unsure how best to respond to that statement, I told him he couldn't be certain of that because his oncologist hadn't specified an exact time frame. Naturally, the oncologist couldn't make an exact prediction and had said only that the remaining time was best measured in months rather than years. My partner nevertheless insisted he would live only another two months. That is exactly what happened: he died two months to the day after arriving in the hospice.

My partner's situation of course differs from the examples cited by gattino in that he knew he was terminally ill with a brain tumour. Perhaps his statement about the two-month time frame was just a guess. He was so adamant about it, however, that since the day of his death I have wondered if he somehow knew exactly when the end would come. He definitely wasn't resigned to his fate. His attitude was very much "do not go gentle into that good night." He was raging against the dying of the light for as long as he could, so I'm not inclined to think it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It puzzles me to this day.

I had exactly the same scenario with my Dad. The consultant told him 2 months and to my Dad, when a consultant tells you something it has to be true... He went along absolutely fine until the last 4 days of the 2 months at which point he just deteriorated rapidly, passing away on the 2 month mark.

A similar thing happened with the partner of my mother-in-law. There's a lot to be said for subconscious mind power and autosuggestion...
 
By coincidence - let's pretend that's a useful word - the papers this morning have a story purporting to explain Cilla Black's confidence in an afterlife.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...-ghost-persuaded-Cilla-d-Bobby-afterlife.html


More directly relevant to this topic is one of the reader comments beneath the above article. classic deathbed visions, but of particular interest is the involvement of specific timetables for the death.

"My brother was dying from a brain tumour in 1991 and a few weeks before he died he told me that our Uncle W had come to him and told him he was going to come back and take him with him in a few weeks time. Uncle W had died 9 years previously. Then when my father was dying in 2003, he told me that his brother W (Uncle W to me and my brother) had come to him to say he was coming back for him. I asked when and my dad said in 4 weeks' time. He died exactly 4 weeks later. He was half in and half out of bed with a smile on his face, just as if he was getting up to go to someone"
 
Just a thought - how many times do people predict they are going to die, and then they don't?
I have an australian friend who in his 20s when I first met him was calmly insistent he was to die by 35, a fact to whcih he was resigned. He's 45 now.

But barring the vaguely recalled peter ustinov story none of the incidents in the original post actually involve the individual making a prediction per se.

Rather the point of interest is people who appear by word and deed to have knowledge of their own soon approaching death, which does indeed come to pass when or in the manner indicated by their seeming prescience...and where it is not based on a diagnosed illness.
 
Just thinking about the issues raised on this thread, how common is it for people to have premonitions about their death which do not come true? I remember when I was about 20 for a few days being absolutely convinced I was going to die very soon, I felt very peaceful and not at all frightened about it and didn't tell anyone. After a couple of days the feeling faded away and I have never felt anything similar since.

On the other hand a close friend of mine died suddenly in the summer of 1988, aged 26. About a couple of months before as close as I can remember she had said to me out of the blue 'will you come to my funeral?' I said (thinking she was joking) 'not sure, I might be too upset' and she frowned and said 'no - you will come, won't you?' so I said OK thinking er ... what's going on ... but she then changed the subject to something chatty and I forgot the conversation until after I did actually attend her funeral. I wish I'd asked her about it at the time but it seemed weird so I felt uncomfortable. Thinking back, she didn't seem upset or worried as she said it which was partly why I didn't take it seriously.
 
At my age not a day passes without me thinking about my own death and the manner of it. But unlike Cilla, I don't have a strong belief in the afterlife, or of anyone waiting to welcome me there.

I don't particularly want to die, but neither do I want to live. My increasingly unfit state means I can't do many things that would make life pleasurable, and I live in fear of becoming dependent on others.

But no predictions from me - I'll just have to take things as they come.
Unless someone opens a Soylent Green facility near here...
 
On the day he was admitted to a hospice for palliative care, my late partner announced to me that he had two months left to live. Unsure how best to respond to that statement, I told him he couldn't be certain of that because his oncologist hadn't specified an exact time frame. Naturally, the oncologist couldn't make an exact prediction and had said only that the remaining time was best measured in months rather than years. My partner nevertheless insisted he would live only another two months. That is exactly what happened: he died two months to the day after arriving in the hospice.

My partner's situation of course differs from the examples cited by gattino in that he knew he was terminally ill with a brain tumour. Perhaps his statement about the two-month time frame was just a guess. He was so adamant about it, however, that since the day of his death I have wondered if he somehow knew exactly when the end would come. He definitely wasn't resigned to his fate. His attitude was very much "do not go gentle into that good night." He was raging against the dying of the light for as long as he could, so I'm not inclined to think it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. It puzzles me to this day.

I am very sorry for what you must have gone through GT.
 
There was a reference to this subject in the book Awakenings by Dr. Oliver Sacks. If I may quote a short passage,

"In July 1971, Mrs B., who was in good general health and not given to 'hunches', had a sudden premonition of death, so clear and peremptory [that] she phoned up her daughters. 'Come and see me today' she said. 'There'll be no tomorrow...No, I feel quite well ... Nothing is bothering me but I know that I shall die in my sleep tonight.'

Her tone was quite sober and factual, wholly unexcited and it carried such conviction that we started wondering and obtained blood-counts, cardiograms, etc., etc. (which were all quite normal). In the evening Mrs B. went round the ward, with a laughter-silencing dignity, shaking hands and saying 'Good-bye' to everyone there.

She went to bed and she died in the night." (p.73)

To me, this case - which was observed under scientific conditions - is just mindblowing.
 
I am very sorry for what you must have gone through GT.

Thank you for expression of sympathy, NF. I appreciate it.

My partner was diagnosed with the tumour in 2009. He had two operations: the first was done after the initial diagnosis and the second one was done in 2011 after tests revealed it had grown back. After the second operation, which left him partially paralysed, he received both radiation and chemo. His condition then deteriorated fairly quickly and he was readmitted to hospital in January 2012, and not long after was put in palliative care. He died in April 2012. According to both the doctors and the medical literature, his type of tumour (oligodendroglioma) is always fatal. It's a slow-growing tumour, and the doctors suggested it may have begun to grow as long as a decade before the diagnosis. He tried to buy himself time with the operations, but there was only so much that could be done.

Matters were made worse by the fact most of my partner's immediate family members were seemingly indifferent to his plight. He had only one brother who lived in the same city, and that one chose to move to the UAE very soon after my partner's diagnosis. To say that they were all bloody useless would be an understatement. I served as his power of attorney and, when the time came, I made all the funeral arrangements. On top of this, I had to deal with some highly problematic so-called "friends". Most of his friends were decent people, but there were about four or five who were manipulative users. One of these was a registered nurse who kept poking her nose into his medical care. My partner was willing to share that information with her, but when he became mentally incompetent I refused to do so. About two weeks before his death she confronted me at his bedside in hospital and yelled at me, demanding to know what medication he was taking. I told her that since she wasn't the power of attorney she had no right to that information, which of course she didn't. She stalked off, I had her banned from the hospital and subsequently filed a complaint with the College of Nurses. Fortunately, the College backed me up and she was forced to take responsibility for her actions.

My late mother used to say that a heart attack was the best way to die because it was quick for the patient and there is no prolonged suffering. She got what she wanted and died in 2002 just a few days after having a massive heart attack. After accompanying my partner in his final years, I can appreciate why she wanted this for herself. His illness was a long one, he knew he was dying and wanted to live. He was only 56 when he died. For that reason, I have to make an effort to be patient with older people who complain about their age-related health problems. I don't doubt that these ailments are unpleasant and it's unfortunate that they have to endure them, but my partner (and others in his situation) would have liked to have had the opportunity to reach their age.
 
Thank you for expression of sympathy, NF. I appreciate it.

My partner was diagnosed with the tumour in 2009. He had two operations: the first was done after the initial diagnosis and the second one was done in 2011 after tests revealed it had grown back. After the second operation, which left him partially paralysed, he received both radiation and chemo. His condition then deteriorated fairly quickly and he was readmitted to hospital in January 2012, and not long after was put in palliative care. He died in April 2012. According to both the doctors and the medical literature, his type of tumour (oligodendroglioma) is always fatal. It's a slow-growing tumour, and the doctors suggested it may have begun to grow as long as a decade before the diagnosis. He tried to buy himself time with the operations, but there was only so much that could be done.

Matters were made worse by the fact most of my partner's immediate family members were seemingly indifferent to his plight. He had only one brother who lived in the same city, and that one chose to move to the UAE very soon after my partner's diagnosis. To say that they were all bloody useless would be an understatement. I served as his power of attorney and, when the time came, I made all the funeral arrangements. On top of this, I had to deal with some highly problematic so-called "friends". Most of his friends were decent people, but there were about four or five who were manipulative users. One of these was a registered nurse who kept poking her nose into his medical care. My partner was willing to share that information with her, but when he became mentally incompetent I refused to do so. About two weeks before his death she confronted me at his bedside in hospital and yelled at me, demanding to know what medication he was taking. I told her that since she wasn't the power of attorney she had no right to that information, which of course she didn't. She stalked off, I had her banned from the hospital and subsequently filed a complaint with the College of Nurses. Fortunately, the College backed me up and she was forced to take responsibility for her actions.

My late mother used to say that a heart attack was the best way to die because it was quick for the patient and there is no prolonged suffering. She got what she wanted and died in 2002 just a few days after having a massive heart attack. After accompanying my partner in his final years, I can appreciate why she wanted this for herself. His illness was a long one, he knew he was dying and wanted to live. He was only 56 when he died. For that reason, I have to make an effort to be patient with older people who complain about their age-related health problems. I don't doubt that these ailments are unpleasant and it's unfortunate that they have to endure them, but my partner (and others in his situation) would have liked to have had the opportunity to reach their age.


That makes grim reading. It never ceases to amaze me how strange or selfish some people get in these situations. The nurse's behavior was completely out of order and I'm amazed at your strength in dealing with her with everything you and your partner was going through.

56 is no age to die and it is unforgivable that you had to do everything without the support of his family. The only consolation is that your partner had someone as strong as you to love and support him when he needed it most. This is truly what matters in life.

I'm in total agreement with your mother and I think I've posted it before here somewhere. In the old days, (my grandfather included), a lot of folk just dropped dead of a heart attack. These days more and more seem to linger in pain and fear through cancers and tumors. Strokes too, we are saving people who would have died, but what happens after the event?

I know several people who have survived strokes who's quality of life is shockingly poor. Yes they were survived but at what cost? Modern medicine is wonderful but it does not solve everything and loved ones are left to deal with the aftermath of a stroke long after hospital follow up has stopped.

On a slightly different note I was talking to a friend who works in elderly care, (primarily dementia), and she was saying that they are getting more and more fit and active patients that have dementia. These people get confused and start assaulting staff and fellow clients and are very strong.

She said when she first started most people with dementia in their 60's and 70's were basically knackered having survived the war, rationing and physical work and were not as physically capable of hurting others.

She is seeing more and more patients, primarily men, who are still as strong as if they were in the 40's causing major damage. I only hope they don't go back to the types of physical restraints they used to use like Buxton chairs. I fear though that they'll just resort to chemical restraint as they have little choice.
 
That makes grim reading. It never ceases to amaze me how strange or selfish some people get in these situations. The nurse's behavior was completely out of order and I'm amazed at your strength in dealing with her with everything you and your partner was going through.

56 is no age to die and it is unforgivable that you had to do everything without the support of his family. The only consolation is that your partner had someone as strong as you to love and support him when he needed it most. This is truly what matters in life.

I'm in total agreement with your mother and I think I've posted it before here somewhere. In the old days, (my grandfather included), a lot of folk just dropped dead of a heart attack. These days more and more seem to linger in pain and fear through cancers and tumors. Strokes too, we are saving people who would have died, but what happens after the event?

I know several people who have survived strokes who's quality of life is shockingly poor. Yes they were survived but at what cost? Modern medicine is wonderful but it does not solve everything and loved ones are left to deal with the aftermath of a stroke long after hospital follow up has stopped.

On a slightly different note I was talking to a friend who works in elderly care, (primarily dementia), and she was saying that they are getting more and more fit and active patients that have dementia. These people get confused and start assaulting staff and fellow clients and are very strong.

She said when she first started most people with dementia in their 60's and 70's were basically knackered having survived the war, rationing and physical work and were not as physically capable of hurting others.

She is seeing more and more patients, primarily men, who are still as strong as if they were in the 40's causing major damage. I only hope they don't go back to the types of physical restraints they used to use like Buxton chairs. I fear though that they'll just resort to chemical restraint as they have little choice.

You've raised some excellent points, NF. Modern medicine has indeed done wonders but it has also created a lot of problems, including what to do about people who don't enjoy a good quality of life following a medical problem such as a stroke. Facilities have limited space these days, and 24-hour home care isn't an option for most families.

Regarding dementia, it's very worrying that there are now so many people with the illness who are physically fit and also violent. I don't envy your friend having to work in those conditions. My late mother served as the administrator of a long-term care facility for over thirty years until she retired, and in her day it was just as you said -- people with dementia were usually quite frail physically and couldn't harm anyone. Also, I gather it wasn't usual in those days for dementia patients to be hostile. As I recall it, she used to say most patients seemed quite happy in their own world, wherever in their minds that may have been. She said problems arose only when a patient had flashbacks to the war or some other traumatic experience. It was rare to see patients in that state, or so I understand.

I expect you're right that chemical and physical restraints may be reintroduced. It's a worrying thought, I agree, but it's difficult to imagine a way around them.
 
A friend was telling me about her aunt who died recently. Apparently the women in her 80's said to her husband "Goodbye" when he asked what she mean't she replied "I'm going to die tonight" and the next morning he found that she had died in her sleep. She appeared to be quite content with this prediction. He didn't seem to give the comment much credence or at least that is what he is saying to my friend.

She had made previous predictions that she would not live for long as had usual illnesses that plague the elderly, but nothing so specific.

This happened a couple of days ago.
 
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The Deathbed Phenomena one NF.

No.

This is the newly-consolidated thread on predicting one's own death. Such predictions may occur an arbitrary length of time prior to death.

The Deathbed Phenomena thread recently inaugurated by gattino addresses "End of Life phenomena and deathbed visions" (i.e., what happens with someone already on their deathbed).
 
No.

This is the newly-consolidated thread on predicting one's own death. Such predictions may occur an arbitrary length of time prior to death.

The Deathbed Phenomena thread recently inaugurated by gattino addresses "End of Life phenomena and deathbed visions" (i.e., what happens with someone already on their deathbed).

No. :)

My post I referred to was in the Deathbed Phenomena one. (not that it matters cos NF has seen it)
 
My brother reckons his mother-in-law anticipated her death. In the week she died, she made a point of telling him how fond she was of him and how much he meant to her. This was totally out-of-character.

She was well into her eighties and had diabetes, which was well-managed. A "funny turn" seems to have been the only herald of her demise, which occured the day after a notably happy birthday. Sudden though it was, we could take some comfort from the fact that she was spared the indignities of a long decline. :)
 
My brother reckons his mother-in-law anticipated her death. In the week she died, she made a point of telling him how fond she was of him and how much he meant to her. This was totally out-of-character.

She was well into her eighties and had diabetes, which was well-managed. A "funny turn" seems to have been the only herald of her demise, which occured the day after a notably happy birthday. Sudden though it was, we could take some comfort from the fact that she was spared the indignities of a long decline. :)

A bit like my beloved Uncle Ron's short decline. He lived 100 miles away but needed family support so started arranging to move to my old dear's sheltered accommodation.

He came over to stay for a week and was told by everyone how much we loved him, and was affectionate in return - most unusual for him! - and then was driven home, and quietly died a couple of days later.
 
Schrodinger's likes of earlier posts have reawakened this thread from its slumber and reading my own words back im struck that they must predate an experience in my own family. A couple of years before my brother's death (i don't know exactly when but two years would put it close in time to my contributions here), there was a strange unexplained moment.

Out of nowhere, completely without any obvious trigger, said brother rang me - and we soon realised each of my other siblings in turn - and began passionately lamenting that we needed to do more as a family, how we didn't spend time together and socialise in the way other families did and ...well the whole thing was rather out of character and worrying. It was more a prolonged heartfelt rant than a conversation. When we conferred and found he's made the same call to each of us we did each admit the passing concern that there was something wrong - he's not dying is he?

Well here's the odd thing. Maybe 18 months or so later he developed cancer and died after 4 months...and it was only after his death that any of us remembered that strange incident and wondered if he could have had some kind of forewarning. If he did however he never once mentioned it when he had the chance. Perhaps he'd forgotten it himself. Perhaps the "knowing" was imparted to him in a forgotten dream, or at an unconscious level which none the less compelled him to speak. Who knows.
 
A woman who works for us who is widowed has a mother in law in her 80's who lives in an aged care facility in the same town that we all do. Her mother in law enjoys good health for someone of her age, so our friend was startled when she went to pay her a visit last week. Her mother in law spent two hours telling our friend that ''The Pearly Gates had opened their doors and were waiting for her.'' She was quite lucid, in good health as mentioned, aside from a slight head cold. The nurses had reported no strange behaviour and our friend relayed to us that her mother in law offered no reason for her belief, but was 100% convinced that she was about to die.
One week on and she is still alive.
 
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