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People Who Just Disappear (Go Missing)

I learnt to put the shopping down and walk out of the shop if the person on the till took too long......
And I am less patient now that I am getting older too.

I learnt that telling my mother things and expecting her to speak up/stand up for me/on my behalf was unrealistic long before that happened. My mother loves me, she was just never able to do that. It was always made out to be that she couldn't do it because I had done something wrong/wasn't perfect, but if I had been perfect she would have felt able to complain.....
I think she would have liked me to be someone who did everything right and drew no attention to themselves/her.....(obviously she has some baggage....)

Anyway - back to people who go missing....
Can relate entirely. This treatment made me feel extra-bolshy when my own kids were let down by adults.

This didn't mean undermining school discipline. If one did misbehave at school and was punished I'd know when the detention letter arrived. I'd read it, ask for their side of it, tell them off, sign the letter and Junior'd serve their time.

Sometimes Junior was being punished for just being there while misbehaviour went on, rather than taking an active part, but the same applied. They were there, they were implicated.

More fool them. Learn to pick better friends or take the consequences. ;)
 
Can relate entirely. This treatment made me feel extra-bolshy when my own kids were let down by adults.

This didn't mean undermining school discipline. If one did misbehave at school and was punished I'd know when the detention letter arrived. I'd read it, ask for their side of it, tell them off, sign the letter and Junior'd serve their time.

Sometimes Junior was being punished for just being there while misbehaviour went on, rather than taking an active part, but the same applied. They were there, they were implicated.

More fool them. Learn to pick better friends or take the consequences. ;)
Parents have a difficult job - and as you say, sometimes children do misbehave or choose to be with others who misbehave. Sometimes we have to learn from mistakes/consequences of our own actions. Parents have to choose when to intervene and when to leave alone.

There is a difference between standing up for your children because they have been treated unjustly and defending them when they were actually at fault....Unfortunately some parents find it hard to distinguish between the two. School staff have to deal with all sorts of parents as well as the kids....

I feel very sorry for the parents of Andrew Gosden. I feel sorry for brothers/sisters of the missing because they suffer too.

Claudia Lawrence's parents have died but her sister is living with the consequences of her disappearance still.
 
I used to follow the Andrew Gosden case quite closely, but it wasn't until today that I read there'd be an update.

I'm of a similar age to Andrew and I can well imagine he didn't have a mobile phone, use the internet much or have a social media profile. The latter was very much in its nascency when he vanished, so it's feasible he didn't have any presence online.

There are so many frustrating aspects to the case. The fact CCTV wasn't reviewed in the weeks proceeding his disappearance leaves us with the famous footage of him leaving Kings Cross and little else; he'd surely have been picked up by the cameras in the streets surrounding the station, wouldn't he?

I also recall reading that somebody who claimed to have information pertaining to the case approached the police in the months following the disappearance, but was told by the station to return the next day when a relevant officer would be available to talk. The person, as far as I can remember, didn't ever return and has not been traced.

It is awful that there was only CCTV at Kings Cross. Surely he must have been near some CCTV nearby, as you say.....

I wonder if the images produced by CCTV cameras generally has improved at all over the years since he disappeared? Is this dependent on who has put the cameras up/paid for them I wonder?

Maybe there are more CCTV cameras around now than there was in the year he disappeared. I am sure searching through the CCTV footage must take considerable time for the police.
 
There is a difference between standing up for your children because they have been treated unjustly and defending them when they were actually at fault....Unfortunately some parents find it hard to distinguish between the two. School staff have to deal with all sorts of parents as well as the kids....

I worked with teenagers at the courts and they had to learn that hanging out with yobs got them tarred with the same brush.
We'd explain that just being there gave moral support to their loutish friends. They were not innocent just because they didn't actually break the windows. Most took it in and we didn't see them again.

Also, the ex was a high school teacher and saw things from that angle. He'd tell me how staff would try to get parents to make their troublesome kids accept discipline in the first couple of years because if they didn't it would be much harder later.

The cleverer parents listened and made their kids toe the line, and the stupid ones didn't and were back begging for the school's help when their little darlings hit 14/15. It was too late. I'd then be seeing them at court.

True, parents have a difficult job with the discipline, but it's much harder without. ;)
 
I also recall reading that somebody who claimed to have information pertaining to the case approached the police in the months following the disappearance, but was told by the station to return the next day when a relevant officer would be available to talk. The person, as far as I can remember, didn't ever return and has not been traced.
That was at Leominster police station in November 2008. The man visited the station when the public enquiry desk was closed, he buzzed the intercom and stated simply “I have information about Andrew Gosden” but by the time an officer came to the front door just a couple of minutes later he had already left. Years later an anonymous letter was sent to the BBC after the case was featured on The One Show claiming to be written by the Leominster man (who had been mentioned in the story) and giving a vague account of possibly seeing Andrew in Shrewsbury, though of course it couldn’t be confirmed if this really was ghe same man.

The interesting thing is that Leominster police station is located fairly out of the way out of town on a business park so it’s unlikely you’d go there unless you really intended to; it’s not the sort of place someone would call in on a whim when passing. As far as is known publicly the Gosden family had no connection to the Leominster or Herefordshire area.
 
This interested me; seen on Wikipedia and mentioned elsewhere -



(Have to say that I wouldn't have sent any of my kids off where they didn't know anyone for a fortnight at that age. But that's just me.)
If you have one child with a particular interest, to which none of the rest of the family subscribe, it can be a great way for them to get more experience. When I was 14/15 I quite regularly went off on various riding activities/holidays without anyone I knew. I knew I was going to be with like-minded people and basically all we did was sleep, eat and talk ponies, which was perfect for me at that age!
 
This post though, brings to mind these guys, (and others) on YouTube, who have recently found at least 11 missing people who ended up in cars in the water.

These guys do this on their own dime and time, with support of viewers.
It really is quite amazing what they have done for these families of those who did disappear without a trace, many who have been missing for decades.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventureswithPurpose
Yep I've mentioned them before. A recent case involved finding the remains of a young mother, her small child and her unborn baby who had been missing for 20 plus years. Heart breaking.
 
If you have one child with a particular interest, to which none of the rest of the family subscribe, it can be a great way for them to get more experience. When I was 14/15 I quite regularly went off on various riding activities/holidays without anyone I knew. I knew I was going to be with like-minded people and basically all we did was sleep, eat and talk ponies, which was perfect for me at that age!
That sounds wonderful and you were lucky, both to have that experience and to be safe doing it. :)

Edit - I will add that fo course you SHOULD have been safe, wherever you went and whoever with and for whatever purpose. We shouldn't even have to consider that kids might not be.
 
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I listened to an interesting episode of the Crime Junkie podcast yesterday, focused on the mini-phenomena of young men going missing from cars in the US.

The cases centred on were Brandon Swanson, who went missing while driving home from a party in the Mid-West in 2008; Jason Landry, a Texas State student who vanished while making the three hour drive home for Christmas 2020; and Daniel Robinson, a 24 year old geologist who disappeared in the Arizona desert last summer.

In all three cases, the cars were found and, in the case of Daniel and Jason, the clothes they were believed to be wearing at the time were found in or near their vehicles, along with their mobiles.

Brandon's case is particularly baffling. He calls his parents in the early hours saying his car has entered a ditch and he needs to be picked up. He gives his location but, when his parents arrive, there is no sign of him. He's on the phone to his parents the whole time, growing more frustrated that they can't see him flashing his vehicle headlights. Eventually, and still on the phone to his parents, he exits the vehicle and says he'll walk along the main track in the hope of running into them.

His parents can hear the sound of running water in the background on Brandon's line and then hear him exclaim "oh shit" before the line goes dead. When they eventually find Brandon's car the next day, it's in a ditch 30 miles away from where he said he was. This was the last days before the ubiquity of GPS's and smart phones, so I can well imagine he took a wrong turn, ending up disorientated and getting more lost than he thought.
 
I listened to an interesting episode of the Crime Junkie podcast yesterday, focused on the mini-phenomena of young men going missing from cars in the US.

The cases centred on were Brandon Swanson, who went missing while driving home from a party in the Mid-West in 2008; Jason Landry, a Texas State student who vanished while making the three hour drive home for Christmas 2020; and Daniel Robinson, a 24 year old geologist who disappeared in the Arizona desert last summer.

In all three cases, the cars were found and, in the case of Daniel and Jason, the clothes they were believed to be wearing at the time were found in or near their vehicles, along with their mobiles.

Brandon's case is particularly baffling. He calls his parents in the early hours saying his car has entered a ditch and he needs to be picked up. He gives his location but, when his parents arrive, there is no sign of him. He's on the phone to his parents the whole time, growing more frustrated that they can't see him flashing his vehicle headlights. Eventually, and still on the phone to his parents, he exits the vehicle and says he'll walk along the main track in the hope of running into them.

His parents can hear the sound of running water in the background on Brandon's line and then hear him exclaim "oh shit" before the line goes dead. When they eventually find Brandon's car the next day, it's in a ditch 30 miles away from where he said he was. This was the last days before the ubiquity of GPS's and smart phones, so I can well imagine he took a wrong turn, ending up disorientated and getting more lost than he thought.
If you read about these cases you will often find that there is 'more' going on in the background. In the case of Brandon Swanson, it's thought that he was using drugs, got wildly disorientated and was a long way away from where he thought he was. He vanished into woodland and probably died of hypothermia. Jason Landry looks to have been suffering from extremely poor mental health, have entered a psychotic break and, again, vanished, probably to die in woodland.
 
If you read about these cases you will often find that there is 'more' going on in the background. In the case of Brandon Swanson, it's thought that he was using drugs, got wildly disorientated and was a long way away from where he thought he was. He vanished into woodland and probably died of hypothermia. Jason Landry looks to have been suffering from extremely poor mental health, have entered a psychotic break and, again, vanished, probably to die in woodland.

I’ve heard the drugs theory posited before for Brandon. His parents claim he was perfectly coherent on the phone, though of course that doesn’t eliminate the fact he was under the influence of anything.

I know his friends at the gathering claim he drank a shot of whiskey, to their knowledge, before driving home but, again, the testimony of teenagers at a party mightn’t be the most reliable!
 
I’ve heard the drugs theory posited before for Brandon. His parents claim he was perfectly coherent on the phone, though of course that doesn’t eliminate the fact he was under the influence of anything.

I know his friends at the gathering claim he drank a shot of whiskey, to their knowledge, before driving home but, again, the testimony of teenagers at a party mightn’t be the most reliable!
Ditto, I would say, the testimony of parents...
 
I’ve heard the drugs theory posited before for Brandon. His parents claim he was perfectly coherent on the phone, though of course that doesn’t eliminate the fact he was under the influence of anything.

I know his friends at the gathering claim he drank a shot of whiskey, to their knowledge, before driving home but, again, the testimony of teenagers at a party mightn’t be the most reliable!
A shot of whisky. oh how terrible. He must have been completely off his face then. :headbang:
 
A shot of whisky. oh how terrible. He must have been completely off his face then. :headbang:

Was conscious of not passing judgement either way, so apologies if it came off that way. Was merely putting forward the testimony of friends as there's always a theory of drink driving in a case like this.
 
Was conscious of not passing judgement either way, so apologies if it came off that way. Was merely putting forward the testimony of friends as there's always a theory of drink driving in a case like this.
Sorry, not intended as a personal attack. He may of course also have had a skinfull and not just a shot. But, assuming that people are telling the truth, it doesn't sound like he's drunk. Of course if we assume people aren't telling the truth, then there is no sensible discussion to be had.
 
https://www.westmercia.police.uk/ne...l-from-family-of-missing-woman-janet-edwards/

A local woman has just vanished from the face of the earth in Hereford. She hasn't been seen for well over a month now and no-one has any idea what has happened to her. It's becoming a real mystery.
From not too far away, and in a similar age group is this lady:
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/new...lice-extremely-concerned-woman-missing-month/
And I’m sure I read of a third woman in the area who’s disappeared in the last few months. Makes you wonder if there is one person behind them all.
 
From not too far away, and in a similar age group is this lady:
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/new...lice-extremely-concerned-woman-missing-month/
And I’m sure I read of a third woman in the area who’s disappeared in the last few months. Makes you wonder if there is one person behind them all.
I'd think, given the age bracket and the way the weather has suddenly changed to become quite cold, that it's more likely that strokes, even minor ones, have caused them to fall or lose memory. Let's hope that they are found safe and well in places they may not be expected to be,
 
Can relate entirely. This treatment made me feel extra-bolshy when my own kids were let down by adults.

This didn't mean undermining school discipline. If one did misbehave at school and was punished I'd know when the detention letter arrived. I'd read it, ask for their side of it, tell them off, sign the letter and Junior'd serve their time.

Sometimes Junior was being punished for just being there while misbehaviour went on, rather than taking an active part, but the same applied. They were there, they were implicated.

More fool them. Learn to pick better friends or take the consequences. ;)
One of my kids once got a detention for being "blasphemous" in an RE lesson - I've never been so proud.
 
One of my kids once got a detention for being "blasphemous" in an RE lesson - I've never been so proud.
Was that in a religious school? I'd see it as a good learning opportunity and of course would not oppose the detention.

There's a meme about a child who has a detention for continually pointing out that the teacher was telling the class something factually inaccurate. While it probably never happened, I enjoy wondering how I'd deal with that one. :chuckle:
 
Was that in a religious school? I'd see it as a good learning opportunity and of course would not oppose the detention.

There's a meme about a child who has a detention for continually pointing out that the teacher was telling the class something factually inaccurate. While it probably never happened, I enjoy wondering how I'd deal with that one. :chuckle:
No, just a normal state school. And he wasn't even being blasphemous. He was actually overheard, trying to comfort a girl in his class who was upset about something IRRC. Ah now I remember. This is what happened (this was 7 years ago). He was ordered into detention for saying the words "Jesus Christ!" The context was an RE lesson about ethics, where the kids were being asked to recount a bad experience they had in life. One of the girls was telling the kids about the time she nearly died in hospital. Son 4 was shocked and the JC words popped out. Then the teacher launched into a diatribe about him being the spawn of satan, etc etc. I forget what she said but it was offensive and really unprofessional. He was actually showing empathy and kindness to another child... I mean, he should have said "Eff me" if she found "Jesus Christ!" so offensive, he might as well have. (The girl he was speaking to was his mate, not remotely christian, nor was anyone else, so far as he knew, btw).

He was told to go to a detention but I refused to let him. School had to live with it, tough titty. (Ex teacher so I don't take any BS - she sounded young and inexperienced, one of those ineffectual teachers who comes down hard and randomly on an innocent kid pour encourage les autres - always a rubbish technique - and the kids thought she was crap - they're not often wrong). I just rode it out and the school backed down.

Yes, learning experience indeed. An RE teacher tried to teach him that you mustn't be nice to other kids, or try to support them lol. He came home, told me about it and I said "You're not going" (I'd forgotten that) and he said something like "That's OK mum because I wasn't planning on going".

I remember now. There was a Parent's Evening coming up very shortly after and I said if they tried to make him do detention for simply saying Jesus Christ, they could by all means try but I would be there at Parent's Evening, and would tear the RE teacher a new one... They backed down. I spoke to the year Head who had a quiet word.

He was my 4th kid at that school and they'd known me years lol. This was a supply. I'd worked a few years as a long term supply myself so know the ropes of that job. I was friendly with one of the subject Heads there, (who left) and she told me a fair bit about what had gone on behind the scenes - although not a church school, coincidentally at one point (years before this) it had a vicar as Head teacher and he wouldn't have been remotely bothered by this, either.

For context, that school was around the stage it had gone into or was about to go into Special Measures, so they were having all sorts of problems. No need for it - started off as a good school in a nice area, none of the social problems many schools contend with - they had appalling staff apart from a couple of the old guard who'd been there since Son 1 was there. Staff were leaving in droves, because the Heads were so bad.

ETA: Just found an old post I made about it elsewhere at the time. Apparently, the teacher called my son "appalling". She used that word to his face, aloud and in front of the entire class. He's no shrinking violet so he asked his classmates “Well did I offend any of you? If I did, I apologise.” The other kids - in front of this teacher - all told my kid they weren't offended by it. I told him later, just to never speak again in her class, not to her, not to answer questions etc.

He's an adult now and not a criminal (although he remains a Blasphemer). He is training to be a journalist though, so maybe it was a portent of things to come....
 
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No, just a normal state school. And he wasn't even being blasphemous. He was actually overheard, trying to comfort a girl in his class who was upset about something IRRC. Ah now I remember. This is what happened (this was 7 years ago). He was ordered into detention for saying the words "Jesus Christ!" The context was an RE lesson about ethics, where the kids were being asked to recount a bad experience they had in life. One of the girls was telling the kids about the time she nearly died in hospital. Son 4 was shocked and the JC words popped out. Then the teacher launched into a diatribe about him being the spawn of satan, etc etc. I forget what she said but it was offensive and really unprofessional. He was actually showing empathy and kindness to another child... I mean, he should have said "Eff me" if she found "Jesus Christ!" so offensive, he might as well have. (The girl he was speaking to was his mate, not remotely christian, nor was anyone else, so far as he knew, btw).

He was told to go to a detention but I refused to let him. School had to live with it, tough titty. (Ex teacher so I don't take any BS - she sounded young and inexperienced, one of those ineffectual teachers who comes down hard and randomly on an innocent kid pour encourage les autres - always a rubbish technique - and the kids thought she was crap - they're not often wrong). I just rode it out and the school backed down.

Yes, learning experience indeed. An RE teacher tried to teach him that you mustn't be nice to other kids, or try to support them lol. He came home, told me about it and I said "You're not going" (I'd forgotten that) and he said something like "That's OK mum because I wasn't planning on going".

I remember now. There was a Parent's Evening coming up very shortly after and I said if they tried to make him do detention for simply saying Jesus Christ, they could by all means try but I would be there at Parent's Evening, and would tear the RE teacher a new one... They backed down. I spoke to the year Head who had a quiet word.

He was my 4th kid at that school and they'd known me years lol. This was a supply. I'd worked a few years as a long term supply myself so know the ropes of that job. I was friendly with one of the subject Heads there, (who left) and she told me a fair bit about what had gone on behind the scenes - although not a church school, coincidentally at one point (years before this) it had a vicar as Head teacher and he wouldn't have been remotely bothered by this, either.

For context, that school was around the stage it had gone into or was about to go into Special Measures, so they were having all sorts of problems. No need for it - started off as a good school in a nice area, none of the social problems many schools contend with - they had appalling staff apart from a couple of the old guard who'd been there since Son 1 was there. Staff were leaving in droves, because the Heads were so bad.

ETA: Just found an old post I made about it elsewhere at the time. Apparently, the teacher called my son "appalling". She used that word to his face, aloud and in front of the entire class. He's no shrinking violet so he asked his classmates “Well did I offend any of you? If I did, I apologise.” The other kids - in front of this teacher - all told my kid they weren't offended by it. I told him later, just to never speak again in her class, not to her, not to answer questions etc.

He's an adult now and not a criminal (although he remains a Blasphemer). He is training to be a journalist though, so maybe it was a portent of things to come....
I'd've still made him do the detention because I would not undermine school discipline, but I'd've been in for a quiet word with the head about the spawn of Satan stuff.
 
LOL Ah no, I'm the other way, I think if it's unjust, it shouldn't happen. Also, kids will invariably know and understand if a punishment is not fair - they're not daft. My son being verbally abused by her didn't just inform him she wasn't upto the job - but the other 25 or whatever kids in the room, at the same time...

Then again, I was trained at a place where we were led to believe if you have to raise your voice, get aggressive in any way, or fling about detentions - you've already lost, as a teacher, because you can't hack control if you resort to that. (Trained by nuns, so sort of SAS of teachers...). If I wanted to shit a kid up, I'd drop my voice, not raise it but never, for a second, denigrate or try to humiliate a child. There's zero chance I would have allowed him to go to that detention, in those circs. But I think he already knew that!

I worked in many church schools cos of where I trained, an RC college that was part of my old uni - worked in RC and C of E schools by preference and non church as well as church, on supply - and to call a child "appalling" to their face would have been a total no-no in any church school I ever worked. Whereas for a kid to say "Jesus Christ!" would have been utterly nothing...

ETA: He's not appalling. Gobby, cocky, loud, irritating - but also funny, kind, generous, popular as hell. I can see how someone like her who also was inexperienced, and maybe not well trained, might think he was a challenge. But he wasn't disruptive, or naughty just a bit loud. I'd imagine she died a bit inside when he rallied the other kids in support, lol. She'd never have been able to get them back after that - not that she ever had control of them. But they'd have been an easy class - you'd have to be a poor teacher to not cope with them, tbh.
 
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Ditto, I would say, the testimony of parents...
Was on a forum years ago, with a girl who happened to live not far from me, who posted about her brother (student age) going missing. After a week or so, he turned up - they found his body in a deep stream, somewhere in the middle of nowhere between where he'd been and home - and it looked like he'd tried to walk home late at night, when he'd had a bit too much to drink. Always felt so sad for her.
 
Was on a forum years ago, with a girl who happened to live not far from me, who posted about her brother (student age) going missing. After a week or so, he turned up - they found his body in a deep stream, somewhere in the middle of nowhere between where he'd been and home - and it looked like he'd tried to walk home late at night, when he'd had a bit too much to drink. Always felt so sad for her.
I was thinking mostly of the parents who are full of 'he had everything to live for, he wasn't depressed, he was happy and cheerful and would absolutely NEVER have chosen suicide.'

So so many of them are deluding themselves.
 
I was thinking mostly of the parents who are full of 'he had everything to live for, he wasn't depressed, he was happy and cheerful and would absolutely NEVER have chosen suicide.'

So so many of them are deluding themselves.

I suspect that this inability to truly know another person - however close you are to them - is at the heart of many a mystery.

I think R. D. Laing is pretty unfashionable these days, but he said some things on this aspect of the human experience that have always stuck with me, and which I believe to be true. He wrote that we experience other people's behaviour - not their experience - but we allow ourselves to believe that behaviour and experience are synonymous and interchangeable things, when they are separate elements which do not necessarily bear a close relationship.

It was Laing, I think, who said that all people are invisible to each other. My own view is that we are not exactly invisible - but, at best, we only really see each other through steamed up windows. I think one of the paradoxes of human relationships is that if we accept that we don't know people at all, then we will know them better.
 
...'he had everything to live for, he wasn't depressed, he was happy and cheerful and would absolutely NEVER have chosen suicide.'

Based on numerous newspaper accounts I've read, I think that the above sentiments - accompanied by the words, "He'd just booked a holiday" - should be enough to trigger a phone call from the Samaritans.

maximus otter
 
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