People Who Vanish

IbisNibs

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So . . . "posh" people can't listen to and enjoy rock and roll? :yellowc:
 

PeteS

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It's pretty close to where he was last seen. I'm guessing it was a hit and run.
Yep I always thought that the hit and run explanation was going to be the solution, that is if Mr Parsons wasn't involved in some sort of skulduggery. I wonder what the arrested characters explanation will be- surely it would have been easy , if you were that way inclined, to simply call the Police and come up with "he had no lights on and rode out straight in front of us , honest Gov" type excuse. One suspects that those involved had something more to hide. Tragic end for the family.
 

escargot

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so my freedom should be curtailed just because people might worry about me? Just because others might wonder what happened to me? That sure is a big price for someone to pay so that others can have peace of mind. What about my peace of mind? What about my need for freedom? Of course, these expressions of concern about others disrespects them , disrespects their freedom of choice. Perhaps those who claim to be concerned should examine the effect of their concern on me instead of selfishly demanding that I am denied my freedom.
It's because a person who is reported missing might not have wanted to just vanish. They may have have come to harm.
Nobody will know if they're safe or not unless they are found.

If they are found alive and safe, but unwilling to return home, that's up to them. Nothing disrespectful about that.
 

catseye

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It's because a person who is reported missing might not have wanted to just vanish. They may have have come to harm.
Nobody will know if they're safe or not unless they are found.

If they are found alive and safe, but unwilling to return home, that's up to them. Nothing disrespectful about that.
I also think that, one's own personal freedom notwithstanding, it's just a courtesy to tell anyone who may care that you are disappearing of your own free will. Leaving a letter or a phone message or something. It won't stop them worrying, but at least police resources won't be tied up in looking for someone who doesn't want to be found.
 

escargot

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I also think that, one's own personal freedom notwithstanding, it's just a courtesy to tell anyone who may care that you are disappearing of your own free will. Leaving a letter or a phone message or something. It won't stop them worrying, but at least police resources won't be tied up in looking for someone who doesn't want to be found.
Good point!

However, you'd have to be sure your relation had really sent that message. There have been people who've come to harm after leaving their homes and apparently sending reassuring texts. The recipients were rightly suspicious and spoke to the police.
 

PeteS

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Good point!

However, you'd have to be sure your relation had really sent that message. There have been people who've come to harm after leaving their homes and apparently sending reassuring texts. The recipients were rightly suspicious and spoke to the police.
Yes - if I were to disappear I'd certainly make sure that
 

Spookdaddy

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I also think that, one's own personal freedom notwithstanding, it's just a courtesy to tell anyone who may care that you are disappearing of your own free will. Leaving a letter or a phone message or something. It won't stop them worrying, but at least police resources won't be tied up in looking for someone who doesn't want to be found.
I've done a fair bit of wild camping in my time, as well as using regular campsites. The vast majority of time I'm solo, and if I was pitched up in a place for more than one night, I would generally leave a very simple note in my tent to say where I was going that day. No-one would ever look at those notes unless something went wrong, so I never saw them as being undermining my privacy in any way. It's more, as you say, by way of a courtesy to those who might be concerned should I not return.

I'll admit it's an imperfect process; I never bother when I leave home for a day up in the hills - and I suspect that, statistically speaking, I'm as likely to end up face down in a ditch twelve miles from home in the White Peak as I am crossing the Mamores or Rannoch Moor. Also, I tend not to plan ahead more than absolutely necessary, and besides, once you've struck camp in the middle of nowhere, there's usually no-one to tell.

But, especially in the big hills, when I can, I do - after all, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean you might not want them to come after you.
 
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Bigphoot2

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Lastest news about Tony Parsons is that the identity of the body has been confirmed as Mr Parsons
Body found near farm confirmed as missing cyclist Tony Parsons
Published14 hours ago
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Police have confirmed that a body found close to a farm in Bridge of Orchy on Tuesday is that of missing cyclist Tony Parsons.
Mr Parsons, from Tillicoultry, was last seen during a charity bike ride on 29 September 2017 outside the Bridge of Orchy Hotel.
Detectives said the discovery was made during a detailed search of a remote area near the A82.
A post-mortem examination is expected to be carried out in the coming days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-55669087
 

Spookdaddy

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Yep I always thought that the hit and run explanation was going to be the solution, that is if Mr Parsons wasn't involved in some sort of skulduggery. I wonder what the arrested characters explanation will be- surely it would have been easy , if you were that way inclined, to simply call the Police and come up with "he had no lights on and rode out straight in front of us , honest Gov" type excuse. One suspects that those involved had something more to hide. Tragic end for the family.
I'm not saying that this is what happened, but it's not entirely unknown for drivers of large vehicles to be unaware that they've hit a person, especially at night, in poor lighting conditions, and if the victim is insufficiently lit-up - and especially if it's just a clip, rather than a full on collision. In this case a driver may be entirely unaware that they've been involved in such an incident - or only become aware if they find blood or other physical evidence on their vehicle, and that could be potentially hundreds of miles from the site of the accident.

If the body was concealed in any way, then that's clearly not an option - after all, bodies don't bury themselves. However, a seriously injured but partly mobile individual may well crawl off an expire undercover and out of sight.

However, I'm just wondering if the arrests might be in relation to the bike, rather than an accident. That is, was Mr Parsons taken ill and his apparently unattended bike left in plain view of the road while he himself was elsewhere. Someone driving along the road saw the apparently abandoned bike and decided to take it away with them. If the bike's serial number was noted (maybe for insurance purposes, or simply recorded at home), it may be that the peelers have flagged this with second hand bike and repair shops, and it eventually turned up - leading to the arrest of those who presented it.
 

catseye

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Yes, I don't think it was an intentional murder. I know it's silly to speculate, but I never thought that the 'opportunistic murder of lone cyclist' was a goer, although I may yet be proved wrong.
 

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I was just about to post the BBC link when Bigphoot beat me to it.

I assume that with the three years that have elapsed since he disappeared his family wouldn't have been expecting a happy outcome. Maybe it might come as some relief to them that his body has actually been found. :(

He lived just two miles from me, so it's a case that I've been wondering about ever since he went missing.

I'm very familiar with the road in question and the area, having driven along there many times, and knowing what an awful road it would be for cycling on (especially in the dark) I half-expected his body to just be found near the side of the road, having been accidentally knocked off his bike or summat.
In a way, if I was going to cycle it (which I wouldn't, as basically I'm a lazy b****r), I think I'd prefer to do so as night. The road would be a lot quieter and conditions cooler. Provided that I had great lights, hi-viz, etc. I think that It'd feel safer than doing it in daylight when there's going to be more cars, lorries, caravans, etc. on the road.

As a kid when my extended family went on holiday to the north of Scotland (Tongue/Thurso/Wick) we'd travel up overnight. In Summer the Highland roads are a lot more pleasant then than during the day.

I wonder if, in the case of Tony Parsons, whether it's a trip that he'd maybe made in the past (i.e. many years ago) and he believed that he would still be capable of it despite the passage of time. If one is an inexperienced cyclist I don't imagine that a 100+ mile, overnight journey is what you'd choose as your inaugural trip.

Puts me in mind of an episode of the 70s comedy series The Likely Lads where the two protagonists find that a cycle ride that they'd casually done as young men is a lot more challenging in middle age:

From IMDb:
After Terry is winded playing football Bob accuses him of being out of shape and challenges him to a cycle race to Berwick. Needless to say both cheat, hitching lifts and sabotaging each other but they duly arrive in Berwick. Too tired to cycle home, they go to the station only to find there are no trains till next day as it's a Sunday.
 

catseye

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I was just about to post the BBC link when Bigphoot beat me to it.

Provided that I had great lights, hi-viz, etc. I think that It'd feel safer than doing it in daylight when there's going to be more cars, lorries, caravans, etc. on the road.
I don't think he had great lights though. And his 'high viz' was just an old workman's waistcoat rather than proper high tech hi viz clothing. He did seem singularly ill prepared for the ride, whether by day or night - you could be on to something with it possibly being a ride he'd done as a much younger man and thinking it would be easier than it was. He wasn't wearing the right gear (and I'm not sure because I'm not a 'bikie' but I don't think the bike was suitable either?) Almost as though it was all done on a whim.
 

CALGACUS03

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I don't think he had great lights though. And his 'high viz' was just an old workman's waistcoat rather than proper high tech hi viz clothing. He did seem singularly ill prepared for the ride, whether by day or night - you could be on to something with it possibly being a ride he'd done as a much younger man and thinking it would be easier than it was. He wasn't wearing the right gear (and I'm not sure because I'm not a 'bikie' but I don't think the bike was suitable either?) Almost as though it was all done on a whim.
Yes, that's kind of my impression too. I was being careful with what I said in my previous post (which is how Biphoot sneaked the link in before me) as I don't really want to be too critical of someone who's died.

I can imagine maybe a conversation between Tony Parsons and some friends and someone saying "I bet you couldn't do that ride now!" and the idea taking root. I emphasise that that's just complete conjecture of course.
 

catseye

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Yes, that's kind of my impression too. I was being careful with what I said in my previous post (which is how Biphoot sneaked the link in before me) as I don't really want to be too critical of someone who's died.

I can imagine maybe a conversation between Tony Parsons and some friends and someone saying "I bet you couldn't do that ride now!" and the idea taking root. I emphasise that that's just complete conjecture of course.
I found myself at first thinking 'well, if I were challenged to do something I'd done when I was younger - an all day ride out over the moors, say, on a horse - I would prepare myself with proper clothing and resources and everything. And then I found myself remembering doing it, and finding it so easy that I can imagine that I would, even twenty years later (although on a different horse, of course), just think it would be a piece of cake and getting myself into trouble. Maybe there's that mechanism cutting in again that we were discussing elsewhere, where the mind 'smooths over' unpleasant or frightening events and puts it all at a kind of distance? Which prevents the conscious mind from reasoning that an intervening twenty (or thirty or forty) years may have blunted our physical abilities somewhat.
 

escargot

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I've done a fair bit of wild camping in my time, as well as using regular campsites. The vast majority of time I'm solo, and if I was pitched up in a place for more than one night, I would generally leave a very simple note in my tent to say where I was going that day. No-one would ever look at those notes unless something went wrong, so I never saw them as being undermining my privacy in any way. It's more, as you say, by way of a courtesy to those who might be concerned should I not return.

I'll admit it's an imperfect process; I never bother when I leave home for a day up in the hills - and I suspect that, statistically speaking, I'm as likely to end up face down in a ditch twelve miles from home in the White Peak as I am crossing the Mamores or Rannoch Moor. Also, I tend not to plan ahead more than absolutely necessary, and besides, once you've struck camp in the middle of nowhere, there's usually no-one to tell.

But, especially in the big hills, when I can, I do - after all, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean you might not want them to come after you.
Yup, exactly. You want your space but if things go wrong and you're missed, you need people to be able to find you. It's a fine line.

We're the same when we go out together on 'tbikes - nobody except us knows where we are!

Can remember reading about a builder who used to pop out alone to jobs without telling anyone where he was going or for how long.

He failed to return over xmas one year which was unusual even for him, but as nobody knew where he was or even if anything was wrong or not his family didn't know where to start looking.

He was found dead at New Year when the owners of a rural cottage he'd been renovating turned up to check on his progress. The building had no roof. The cause of death was exposure after he'd fallen when installing rafters, breaking limbs and unable to move, and the area was in a valley with a poor phone signal. What a horrible death.

Well, I bet that's cheered you up NO end! :chuckle:
 

escargot

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I'm not saying that this is what happened, but it's not entirely unknown for drivers of large vehicles to be unaware that they've hit a person, especially at night, in poor lighting conditions, and if the victim is insufficiently lit-up - and especially if it's just a clip, rather than a full on collision. In this case a driver may be entirely unaware that they've been involved in such an incident - or only become aware if they find blood or other physical evidence on their vehicle, and that could be potentially hundreds of miles from the site of the accident.
Off the subject a bit, but this crosses my mind now and then. I drive a car, not a truck, so if I did hit anyone I'd know.

I would stop and ring for help right away and worry about how much trouble I was in later; I would absolutely not hit and run.

However, as you say, it is possible for a larger vehicle to hit a pedestrian or cyclist/motorcyclist without knowing*. If the driver reaches their destination and finds blood and a dent on their vehicle, what do they do? They might have hit an animal. Do they ring the police and admit they've had an accident, knowing they can be prosecuted for leaving the scene even if they've only just noticed the damage ?

If they have indeed hit someone there'll be trouble. So might they be tempted to keep schtum in case nobody saw them? Or just report it and keep the fingers crossed?

*I have an anecdote about this. Doing work experience in the local Magistrates' Courts (where I later worked as an adult!) I saw a lorry driver prosecuted for knocking a cyclist off and leaving the scene. There were witnesses, he was bang to rights.

The driver denied the incident, saying wasn't even there and anyway he knew he hadn't hit anyone because he was an experienced driver and would have felt it. This didn't fool the Magistrates and he was found guilty.

The point was that he could have admitted that he might have hit the cyclist without knowing and that's why he didn't stop.
A bit thin, and that's not what happened as he'd sped off with witnesses chasing him and shouting, but it would have been some defence.
 

escargot

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However, I'm just wondering if the arrests might be in relation to the bike, rather than an accident. That is, was Mr Parsons taken ill and his apparently unattended bike left in plain view of the road while he himself was elsewhere. Someone driving along the road saw the apparently abandoned bike and decided to take it away with them. If the bike's serial number was noted (maybe for insurance purposes, or simply recorded at home), it may be that the peelers have flagged this with second hand bike and repair shops, and it eventually turned up - leading to the arrest of those who presented it.
How astute! That's certainly possible. What the Bill'd call 'old-fashioned policing', i.e. looking at the details.
 

Spookdaddy

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How astute! That's certainly possible. What the Bill'd call 'old-fashioned policing', i.e. looking at the details.
Again, I'm not saying it's what happened, but although there's been much talk of the bike ride, there's not really much about the bike itself - and my mind has always been drawn to absences. (Not necessarily to any successful end, I should add.)

Another thing is that although people do get bailed for lethal offences it's my impression that the law does not look at all favourably on post incident cover up, and takes this into account - and a three year plus gap between knowingly perpetrating a crime which leads to the death of an individual, and being arrested for it, indicates an ongoing willingness and ability to construct and maintain a dishonesty which might make bail much less likely. This is what made me wonder if the 'in connection with' factor in the issue of the two arrested may be by some remove.

That's just an impression, not a known fact, and may be complete rubbish; I know you've worked the courts, escargot, so maybe you have an idea. It may also of course be different in Scotland - and the current unpleasantness may have put pressure on the system not to bang people up unless absolutely necessary.
 

escargot

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Again, I'm not saying it's what happened, but although there's been much talk of the bike ride, there's not really much about the bike itself - and my mind has always been drawn to absences. (Not necessarily to any successful end, I should add.)

Another thing is that although people do get bailed for lethal offences it's my impression that the law does not look at all favourably on post incident cover up, and takes this into account - and a three year plus gap between knowingly perpetrating a crime which leads to the death of an individual, and being arrested for it, indicates an ongoing willingness and ability to construct and maintain a dishonesty which might make bail much less likely. This is what made me wonder if the 'in connection with' factor in the issue of the two arrested may be by some remove.

That's just an impression, not a known fact, and may be complete rubbish; I know you've worked the courts, escargot, so maybe you have an idea. It may also of course be different in Scotland - and the current unpleasantness may have put pressure on the system not to bang people up unless absolutely necessary.
More good points there.

Looking back, as you've said, there hasn't been much discussion of the bike. Perhaps it was indeed played down by the police to allow it to surface in time. That would be genius policing!

We know the police can control which facts are released to the press and which aren't, and that the media can be told vital details and then asked to suppress them until later.
All good tactics, which I enjoyed seeing dramatised in ITV's recent series The Pembrokeshire Murders.
 

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Added to which, of course, the current situation has made cycling much more of an activity, so I understand sales of bikes have escalated massively. Maybe someone had the bike in a shed and thought that now may be the ideal time to offload it? Hence what appears to be a sudden turn of events?
 

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...after all, bodies don't bury themselves. However, a seriously injured but partly mobile individual may well crawl off an expire undercover and out of sight.
I realised after writing this, that it might be worth clarifying.

Although, clearly, no-one is actually going to bury themselves under six foot of earth, 'hide and die' syndrome (also known as 'terminal burrowing') is a symptom of hypothermia and can result in people concealing themselves quite effectively (and - I suspect - has fuelled more than a few sudden and unattended death related conspiracy theories). Certain factors can make a particular individual much more susceptible to hypothermia than the average, and in milder temperatures than we might normally associate the condition with - but I'm not sure by what degree, and checking past weather records it seems that overnight temperatures in the area on 29 September 2017 were relatively mild.

That said, the immediate aftermath of a head injury can clearly result in unusual behaviour - and I wonder if aspects of this behaviour might sometimes coincide with the symptoms of hypothermia.
 

Naughty_Felid

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I was just about to post the BBC link when Bigphoot beat me to it.

I assume that with the three years that have elapsed since he disappeared his family wouldn't have been expecting a happy outcome. Maybe it might come as some relief to them that his body has actually been found. :(

He lived just two miles from me, so it's a case that I've been wondering about ever since he went missing.



In a way, if I was going to cycle it (which I wouldn't, as basically I'm a lazy b****r), I think I'd prefer to do so as night. The road would be a lot quieter and conditions cooler. Provided that I had great lights, hi-viz, etc. I think that It'd feel safer than doing it in daylight when there's going to be more cars, lorries, caravans, etc. on the road.

As a kid when my extended family went on holiday to the north of Scotland (Tongue/Thurso/Wick) we'd travel up overnight. In Summer the Highland roads are a lot more pleasant then than during the day.

I wonder if, in the case of Tony Parsons, whether it's a trip that he'd maybe made in the past (i.e. many years ago) and he believed that he would still be capable of it despite the passage of time. If one is an inexperienced cyclist I don't imagine that a 100+ mile, overnight journey is what you'd choose as your inaugural trip.

Puts me in mind of an episode of the 70s comedy series The Likely Lads where the two protagonists find that a cycle ride that they'd casually done as young men is a lot more challenging in middle age:

From IMDb:
Having done a fair few night rides the thing you really have to watch is body temperature drop if you have to stop for any reason.
 
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