Perpetual Motion & Perpetual Motion Machines

[Floyd]

This was solved recently by Yith;

 

[Cochise]

so... solar power?

well... yes. but I deliberately didn't use that term because it's associated too tightly with solar panels as if that's the only way it can be used.

I, as I described, was thinking of a device that directly converts light to motion as the light meter does. Within the device, as it were.

Just trying to think outside the box - seems the box was bigger than i thought

 

[gordonrutter]

well... yes. but I deliberately didn't use that term because it's associated too tightly with solar panels as if that's the only way it can be used.

I, as I described, was thinking of a device that directly converts light to motion as the light meter does. Within the device, as it were.

Just trying to think outside the box - seems the box was bigger than i thought

A selenium light meter converts the light energy into electrical energy which is then converted into movement energy.

 

[Cochise]

A selenium light meter converts the light energy into electrical energy which is then converted into movement energy.

I think what my addled brain was trying to get at is that there are no transmission losses. A simple selenium cell powered turbine kind of thing with an output shaft that would run more-or-less continually.

The whole grid approach to electricity seems somewhat counter productive now we have all these small scale generators.

Anyway, we are wandering off topic. I'll stop now

 

[Matt Quinn]

It's not exactly perpetual motion but does anyone remember the old Selenium light meters? I still have a fully functional Weston Euromaster (made 1973) which I use (admittedly very rarely) with my 35mm manual Pentax SV. From 1963.

I have several of them... small collection of Weston Masters; the later examples of which I still use (I have Mamiya 645 and RB kits). The power source is the photons falling on the cell; simply it's a photovoltaic cell... You see roofs plastered with their descendants these days.

 

[Xanatic*]

You could do a Sterling engine with one part simply being heated by the sun. Then you avoid the electrical part.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

In the late 1920s electronics expert Lester Hendershot was working on a magnetised aviation compass, when he allegedly discovered what he described as a fuel less generator, supposedly tapping into the Earth's magnetic field to derive an energy source.
The strange tale is told by his son, Mark and features plenty of Fortean intrigue, including a mega-corporation trying to pay Hendershot off, contact by "subversive groups and/or foreign powers" and cumulates with his somewhat mysterious death:

http://www.rexresearch.com/hendershot2/hendershot.htm

 

[Stormkhan]

Recently spotted a TikTok video of a "AMAZING discovery - perpetual motion!"
It was the usual idiocy of an axis with spokes, ending in half-filled 2 ltr plastic bottles. You spin it, y'see, and the water just keeps it going.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Recently spotted a TikTok video of a "AMAZING discovery - perpetual motion!"
It was the usual idiocy of an axis with spokes, ending in half-filled 2 ltr plastic bottles. You spin it, y'see, and the water just keeps it going.

Yeah, that ol' gravity and friction thing - it's all imaginary!

 

[Robin]

In the late 1920s electronics expert Lester Hendershot was working on a magnetised aviation compass, when he allegedly discovered what he described as a fuel less generator, supposedly tapping into the Earth's magnetic field to derive an energy source.
The strange tale is told by his son, Mark and features plenty of Fortean intrigue, including a mega-corporation trying to pay Hendershot off, contact by "subversive groups and/or foreign powers" and cumulates with his somewhat mysterious death:

View attachment 72610

http://www.rexresearch.com/hendershot2/hendershot.htm

I'm no expert but as I understand it the Earth's magnetic field is actually a relatively weak force. Sure, it does a great job deflecting solar radiation and it can (just about) move a very light metal compass needle (like magic)... but I can't see it powering my TV or washing machine somehow!

The world of 'free energy' is full of tales of heroic individuals who've succeeded at inventing a free energy device against all the odds only to end up being disbelieved and then persecuted (or worse). Classic conspiracy stuff... but sadly, mostly apocryphal (with a capital A!).

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I'm no expert but as I understand it the Earth's magnetic field is actually a relatively weak force. Sure, it does a great job deflecting solar radiation and it can (just about) move a very light metal compass needle (like magic)... but I can't see it powering my TV or washing machine somehow!

The world of 'free energy' is full of tales of heroic individuals who've succeeded at inventing a free energy device against all the odds only to end up being disbelieved and then persecuted (or worse). Classic conspiracy stuff... but sadly, mostly apocryphal (with a capital A!).

Yes. That's my understanding too.
Hendershot sr. made quite modest claims for his device - like powering a lightbulb and with the most powerful device being an electric sewing machine. His son, who wrote the lengthy article I linked to above, claims to have improved on his father's device and I would love to hear something positive about his results, but remain sceptical.
It's more the Fortean additions to his story - MIBs and all, which hooked me in.

 

[Robin]

Yes. That's my understanding too.
Hendershot sr. made quite modest claims for his device - like powering a lightbulb and with the most powerful device being an electric sewing machine. His son, who wrote the lengthy article I linked to above, claims to have improved on his father's device and I would love to hear something positive about his results, but remain sceptical.
It's more the Fortean additions to his story - MIBs and all, which hooked me in.

Yeah I know it was the Fortean side of it that caught your eye, I was just having a rant at these stories you hear about miracle devices and all the conspiracy nonsense that usually builds up around them.

Mind you, I must admit I am one of those annoying people who has an open mind about the possibility of creating energy from (more powerful) natural forces like permanent magnets and gravity, despite the fact that it's (supposedly) totally contrary to the fundamental axioms (or 'laws') of physics. Those 'laws' have (so far) stood the test of time but who knows maybe someday someone will demonstrate otherwise.

Years ago I remember reading about Johann Bessler (aka Orffyreus) who claimed to have built a perpetual motion machine back in 1712, and then more recently I came across the book on it by John Collins called 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?'. I was very sceptical but I'm really glad I read it because it's an extraordinary story and really makes you think whether he could have actually succeded. We'll never know.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Years ago I remember reading about Johann Bessler (aka Orffyreus) who claimed to have built a perpetual motion machine back in 1712, and then more recently I came across the book on it by John Collins called 'Perpetual Motion; An Ancient Mystery Solved?'. I was very sceptical but I'm really glad I read it because it's an extraordinary story and really makes you think whether he could have actually succeded. We'll never know.

Wouldn't it still be running and in a museum somewhere if it lived up to the claims?

 

[Stormkhan]

I think that there's a difference between 'free energy' devices and the 'most efficient' devices.

 

[Robin]

Wouldn't it still be running and in a museum somewhere if it lived up to the claims?

You would think so, but the book still makes a good case for it having been genuine. Basically he was determined that no one would get to know the secret until he had got his money for it.

It's often said that if someone invented a free energy device then they would instantly become rich, but in reality it's not necessarily as simple as that (especially in those days). There was no Patent (intellectual property) Office then, and there would be nothing to stop anyone just coping his idea as soon as it was out and he wouldn't see any reward whatsoever.

Even these days, there would be no guarantees, patents can be circumvented by modifying and improving on a device. That's what happened to the chap who invented that windup radio, an unscrupulous company (allegedly) took his idea from him, made some improvements/changes and patented and marketed that instead of his version. Patents have to be water tight these days with every eventuality covered (by an experienced patent attorney) or someone will find a loophole and copy your basic idea. The more simple the idea (such as Orffyreus's device, which he said was so simple anyone could build it) the easier it is for rivals to pinch it. Imagine spending years on achieving the impossible (free energy) and then seeing others get rich on it instead of you!

Orffyreus apparently made numerous demonstrations of his invention with just the main workings covered over. Apart from actually showing people how it worked he complied with all their requests for demonstration of what it could do, including hauling up a weight and running for days in a sealed room. He even showed them the actual weights that powered the device, but at the end of the day none of it would convince anyone to part with the large amount of money he was asking. When he realized it wasn't going to be that easy he agreed to revel how it worked to a trusted friend and mentor (Prince Karl, of Hesse-Kassel). The prince confirmed to everyone that it was genuine and that is was a very simple device.

But still there was that basic problem that no one would part with any money until they'd seen how it worked (and then of course there would be nothing to stop them just copying it). So the situation reached stalemate. Orffyreus was taking no chances of the secret getting out and he would take his device apart completely after each demonstration, and sometimes just destroy it and then rebuild again as and when he needed to. He was still trying to get his money right up to when he died.

So the reason why there is no version of it in any museum maybe because there was no working version existing when he died and he'd taken the secret with him.

I'm not saying I necessarily believe it was genuine but it certainly made me wonder.

 

[Robin]

I think that there's a difference between 'free energy' devices and the 'most efficient' devices.

I think if a device were made that was more than 100% efficient (if that were possible), then that would be giving out more energy than has gone into it and it would then technically be creating ('free') energy and would be a 'free energy' device (or an 'over unity' device).