Perpetual Stew (Pottage; Pot-Au-Feu)

[Paul_Exeter]

Tell that to people who end up in hospital on drips, or the families of those who die of it!

Here's a recent example, from the Daily Mirror -

Pub chef's shepherd's pie kills woman, 92, and leaves 31 others ill

The chef, John Croucher, rushed the preparation of the meat and used it partly-cooked next day in the shepherd's pie.
Only the vegetarian customers escaped unscathed.

The lady who died, Elizabeth Neuman, was killed by a gastrointestinal haemorrhage caused by vomiting.
How traumatic that must have been, for all concerned.
Other sufferers must have been nearly as badly affected.

The pub's hygiene procedures were poor at the time. That's all been tightened up now.

I used to look after food poisoning patients in hospitals and saw how pitiful their condition could be. It's a sobering experience.

Was thinking this morning: if I made, say, a meat casserole and left some to cool, then forgot about it overnight, I'd bin it rather than risk food poisoning.
While I might be throwing away £5-worth of food that might be OK, it's worth £5 not to be ill.

If you were ill in bed with galloping D&V, how much would you pay for a cure? £1,000? £500? Whatever's in your purse?
How about a fiver?
Chuck that casserole away.

I agree with you, however I am always astonished by how many people I've known who would leave an unfinished Chinese or Indian takeaway in a cold oven/other unrefrigerated place overnight and then polish it off the next day

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

This reminds me of when I was a student. Two Nigerian students I knew separately would each do a '1-week stew', which they'd heat up every day and add ingredients, then let it cool down overnight. After a week, they'd clean the pan.
They reckoned that on each successive day, somehow the flavour had improved and it was the food of the gods by the end of the week.
I never tried any of it.

It sounds horrifying...........eeks!

 

[escargot]

I agree with you, however I am always astonished by how many people I've known who would leave an unfinished Chinese or Indian takeaway in a cold oven/other unrefrigerated place overnight and then polish it off the next day

Yup, if they're lucky they get away with it. Unlucky though...

As you may know, rice is particularly dangerous in this respect.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Several years back, we ordered the same thing as we always did from the Chinese take-away: I had shrimp and broccoli, my husband had pepper steak and onions.
A few hours later, I felt deathly ill - yes, it was food poisoning from the shrimp, hubby was fine.
The odd thing was that we ate there quite often for a number of years, but never again after that, and I have not eaten shrimp since that day.
Later on, I found out that several others also fell ill.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Did they really used to keep porridge going for 9 days, as in that old poem??
What a dangerous thing to do!

 

[escargot]

Did they really used to keep porridge going for 9 days, as in that old poem??
What a dangerous thing to do!

You mean 'pease pudding'?
We're back to mushy peas.

 

[catseye]

You mean 'pease pudding'?
We're back to mushy peas.

Horrible stuff!

And I fully agree about the food poisoning. I would never risk it!

 

[Floyd]

I'm of the opinion that if you've never heard of food poisoning, you don't get it.

I know SO MANY people with very questionable food hygiene practices, who just never seem to get ill from it. My mother used to make a pudding full of whipped cream and then leave it kicking around out of the fridge (apparently there 'wasn't room') on a hot day. We would eat some when it was fresh, but there would be left overs for days, often unrefrigerated. She'd eat it with relish.

And Old John, who told me his idea of opening a restaurant serving just a couple of dishes that were kept on a hot plate, and you served yourself your choice. I asked what he'd do with the stuff left over, and he was just going to keep re-heating it until it was all gone. He was ASTONISHED when I told him that you should really only reheat food once after cooking, and told me he'd been reheating stuff over and over again his whole life*!

*His whole life being 'when there wasn't an available woman to cook for him.'

If you can drink Cairo tap-water and survive, you can survive anything. - I left a lasagne (second attempt recently) in the oven last night. Had some cold this morn and have put it in the fridge now. I'll probably re-heatit for tonight, but if not, I have no problem finishing it of Monday/Tuesday.

 

[Floyd]

The chef, John Croucher, rushed the preparation of the meat and used it partly-cooked next day in the shepherd's pie.


The pub's hygiene procedures were poor at the time. That's all been tightened up now.

That's what caused it, not the re-heating of the food.

 

[Mythopoeika]

It sounds horrifying...........eeks!

It smelt something awful, to be honest. And they never refrigerated it!

 

[escargot]

That's what caused it, not the re-heating of the food.

No, it was inadequately re-heated. 'Food hygiene' doesn't cover just cleaning procedures, it's about the safe preparation of food.

The chef undercooked the meat in a rush the day before and put it in the fridge for use the next day.
Next day the meat was covered with mashed potato and reheated. The temperature of the meat was not checked before it was served. Had it been hot enough it might have been safe.

Undercooked, reheated meat. Dangerous.

 

[Floyd]

No, it was inadequately re-heated. 'Food hygiene' doesn't cover just cleaning procedures, it's about the safe preparation of food.

The chef undercooked the meat in a rush the day before and put it in the fridge for use the next day.
Next day the meat was covered with mashed potato and reheated. The temperature of the meat was not checked before it was served. Had it been hot enough it might have been safe.

Undercooked, reheated meat. Dangerous.

Yes, that's my point. (Especially with pork). I've always re-heated stuff though and been perfectly fine- cough,cough. When we used to have roast chicken regularly, I/we would usually eat it cold over the next day or two, but sometimes re-fried it up.
As for rice, I have heard this, but as Ken Hom says, as long as you keep it in the fridge then take it out straight into a hot wok you'll be fine. Look how well he looks.

 

[escargot]

Yes, that's my point. (Especially with pork). I've always re-heated stuff though and been perfectly fine- cough,cough. When we used to have roast chicken regularly, I/we would usually eat it cold over the next day or two, but sometimes re-fried it up.
As for rice, I have heard this, but as Ken Hom says, as long as you keep it in the fridge then take it out straight into a hot wok you'll be fine. Look how well he looks.

Yup, it's food hygiene we're discussing here. Rice is OK if it's chilled right away and then reheated throughly.

The danger from rice is the Bacillus cereus, present in spores that can survive cooking. You have to get mediaeval on its ass.
If I reheat cooked rice it's normally fried up to make it as hot as possible, if possible with egg, peas, sweetcorn and chopped spring onion.

 

[Fluttermoth]

In a pleasing coincidence, the most excellent YouTuber Atomic Shrimp has just posted a video about batch soup making which mentions the perpetual stock pot

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

Reminded me of my Mum's wonderful Shepherd's Pie, never had it since, surprisingly excellent!

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

You mean 'pease pudding'?

That old saying:
'Pease porridge hot,
pease porridge cold,
pease porridge in the pot,
nine days old!'

Have no idea what 'pease porridge' is, just remember the poem!

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

If you can drink Cairo tap-water and survive, you can survive anything. - I left a lasagne (second attempt recently) in the oven last night. Had some cold this morn and have put it in the fridge now. I'll probably re-heatit for tonight, but if not, I have no problem finishing it of Monday/Tuesday.

What's wrong with Cairo tap water??
Lasagna, my favorite! I have cooked many versions of it, using cottage cheese instead of ricotta cheese (too thick), and Rao's sauce (vegetables only), different spices (sometimes throw in a bay leaf or two), and a bit of fried sausage thrown in for flavor, with ground beef.
Always better the next day! But I refrigerate it always.
If I make extra, it goes in the freezer, and tastes great when heated in the oven from its frozen state.

 

[Floyd]

IWhat's wrong with Cairo tap water??
Lasagna, my favorite! I have cooked many versions of it, using cottage cheese instead of ricotta cheese (too thick), and Rao's sauce (vegetables only), different spices (sometimes throw in a bay leaf or two), and a bit of fried sausage thrown in for flavor, with ground beef.
Always better the next day! But I refrigerate it always.
If I make extra, it goes in the freezer, and tastes great when heated in the oven from its frozen state.

It's full of all sorts of metals and various crap that you shouldn't really be drinking. Mind you, it was always said that even if you don't smoke, you breathe in the equivalent of a pack or two a day from the unregulated car exhaust fumes. Whether it's been cleaned up a bit now I don't know, but knowing Egypt, probably not. The billions of dollars from Suez canal revenues don't tend to find their way down to the 'common' people.

 

[Ronnie Jersey]

All this reminds me of 'Creme De La Mer', which is the only thing I use on my face and neck - invented by Max Huber, who was facially burned in a lab accident. He was determined to find something to heal his skin, and 6,000 experiments and 12 years later, he invented the perfect cream using sea kelp as a basis, sea kelp having healing properties.
That was the 1960's, and he started selling this cream, it caught on to become one of the world's best-selling face and body creams. Huber died in 1991, but Estee Lauder purchased the brand - they had no idea that he had been using sound-waves, fermentation processes for months at a clip, and all kinds of odd procedures to make this fabulous cream.
It is enormously expensive, however the point I am getting to is that each batch is infused with a bit of the previous fermented batch, so it is an ongoing part of the original cream, which is part of the perpetual process.
Whoever hasn't tried Creme De La Mer doesn't know what they're missing!

 

[Lb8535]

Here the science is that food must be kept either at a certain cold or a certain hot temperature, otherwise the growth of bacteria that may have been present in the ingredients is significant enough to cause illness. Restaurants can only leave food on the counter after cooking for a limited amount of time. Meat is the most dangerous, veggies harbor less bacteria to start with . A pot au feu that is kept simmering would be legal, but the food put into it must be safe to start with. If the meat is undercooked to start with and any bacteria are not killed then not a good idea to toss it in the pot. I can't see a restaurant taking the risk. Anything however could be cooked properly and the portion not served refrigerated and re-heated and served promptly. The issue with serial re-heating is that each time it's at room temperature for a while and the bacteria multiply some more. I wouldn't risk it at a restaurant. At home another matter.

 

[bugmum]

If I'm making a meat casserole for weekdays, when I don't have time to do a long slow cook, I'll quite often cook it the day before for 2-3 hours, then turn the oven off and leave the pot undisturbed until the following day, when I put the oven back on and give it another 40-60 minutes. Makes the meat delightfully tender and improves the flavour no end. No-one's been ill so far.

This is not to say I haven't given anybody food poisoning in my time. There was a memorable occasion when my parents came to visit, and had to lengthen their visit by a day because they were unable to drive home due to D&V. The In House GP also suffered, but the small boys and I were fine. It was initially blamed on a roast chicken, but on reflection I wonder if it was dodgy cream in a shop-bought Pavlova...

 

[escargot]

That old saying:
'Pease porridge hot,
pease porridge cold,
pease porridge in the pot,
nine days old!'

Have no idea what 'pease porridge' is, just remember the poem!

I know, but the version I learned (northwest UK) was 'pease pudding', which people make and you can even buy in tins, as already mentioned.

 

[Lb8535]

I know, but the version I learned (northwest UK) was 'pease pudding', which people make and you can even buy in tins, as already mentioned.

Aha so it's not actually oatmeal? Its very overcooked peas?

 

[Krepostnoi]

Aha so it's not actually oatmeal? Its very overcooked peas?

Yellow split peas, to be precise. So it's a kind of traditional British dhal.

 

[Fluttermoth]

A 'pudding' was originally anything boiled or baked in a cloth, container, or 'skin' of some kind, hence black pudding, hog's pudding etc. Pease pudding was dried peas boiled in a cloth in the water along with a ham or gammon joint. It could be served separately or alongside, to make the meat go further, kind of like a Yorkshire pudding with roast beef

I've made it, and it's very nice, I don't fancy it nine days old though!

 

[Lb8535]

A 'pudding' was originally anything boiled or baked in a cloth, container, or 'skin' of some kind, hence black pudding, hog's pudding etc. Pease pudding was dried peas boiled in a cloth in the water along with a ham or gammon joint. It could be served separately or alongside, to make the meat go further, kind of like a Yorkshire pudding with roast beef

I've made it, and it's very nice, I don't fancy it nine days old though!

That sound great except for the meat. Thanks.

 

[Fluttermoth]

In a pleasing coincidence, the most excellent YouTuber Atomic Shrimp has just posted a video about batch soup making which mentions the perpetual stock pot

These coincidences are seriously following me around this weekend

 

[CarlosTheDJ]

Reading this thread has made me glad that I am not a fan of stews. And I DESPISE soup of any kind.

 

[hunck]

Reading this thread has made me glad that I am not a fan of stews. And I DESPISE soup of any kind.

Wait 'til you get older, you young whippersnapper. You’ll get to love ‘em.

I used to hate squeeze boxes when I was younger.

 

[Fluttermoth]

Reading this thread has made me glad that I am not a fan of stews. And I DESPISE soup of any kind.

I mean, chili and curries are just spicy stews, you don't like those?

And there's nothing better than hot soup on a cold day, it warms your very cockles, it does And there's so many flavours of soup, there's got to be one you like, my mind is reeling!