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Poisoned: Spy Who Quit Russia For Britain (Aleksander Litvinenko)

ted_bloody_maul

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SCOTLAND YARD is investigating a suspected plot to assassinate a former Russian spy in Britain by poisoning him with thallium, the deadly metal.
Aleksander Litvinenko, who defected to Britain six years ago, is fighting for his life in a London hospital. A toxicology test at Guy’s hospital last Thursday confirmed the presence of the odourless, tasteless poison.

A medical report obtained by The Sunday Times shows that he has three times the maximum limit in his body, a potentially fatal dose. It is as yet unclear how the poison was administered, but on the day he became ill his family say he had a meal with a mysterious Italian contact.

Friends of Litvinenko, a former lieutenant-colonel in Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB), are convinced that he is the victim of a murder attempt by former colleagues. They regard it as similar to the plot in which Georgi Markov, the Bulgarian dissident, was killed in 1978 with a poison-tipped umbrella on Waterloo Bridge in London.

Scotland Yard detectives have been liaising with consultants at Barnet hospital, north London, who have been treating Litvinenko since the poisoning on November 1, the anniversary of his defection.

A police spokesman confirmed an inquiry had been launched last week: “The Specialist Crime Directorate are investigating a suspicious poisoning.”

Supplies of thallium in Britain are highly restricted and cases of poisoning are extremely rare. One gram is enough to kill even the fittest of men and Litvinenko, 43, has all the symptoms of the poison, which can be diagnosed only after at least two weeks.

He has kidney damage, is constantly vomiting and has lost all his hair. He has also suffered severe damage to his bone marrow and an almost total loss of white blood cells which are vital to the immune system.

Doctors say these latter symptoms could suggest the presence of a second unknown agent in a potentially lethal “cocktail”.

In an interview last week at his bedside in the cancer ward of Barnet hospital, where he was being treated under a different name, Litvinenko said he believed it was a murder plot to avenge his defection.

“They probably thought I would be dead from heart failure by the third day,” he said. “I do feel very bad. I’ve never felt like this before — like my life is hanging on the ropes.”

Litvinenko claimed political asylum in 2000 and was granted British citizenship last month. One of the highest profile defectors from the FSB, he is on the wanted list in Moscow where he has made powerful enemies with his criticism of President Vladimir Putin.

Last month Litvinenko received an unexpected e-mail from a man he knew as Mario, an acquaintance he had made in Italy. The Italian said he wanted to meet him in London because he had some important information about the murder of Anna Politkovskaya,( http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27920 ) a Russian investigative journalist who was killed in the lift of her Moscow apartment block.

Litvinenko was a friend of Politkovskaya, one of the Kremlin’s most powerful critics, particularly over the war in Chechnya.
“We met at Piccadilly Circus,” said Litvinenko. “Mario said he wanted to sit down to talk to me, so I suggested we go to a Japanese restaurant nearby.

“I ordered lunch but he ate nothing. He appeared to be very nervous. He handed me a four-page document which he said he wanted me to read right away. It contained a list of names of people, including FSB officers, who were purported to be connected with the journalist’s murder.

“The document was an e-mail but it was not an official document. I couldn’t understand why he had to come all the way to London to give it to me. He could have e-mailed it to me.”

After the meeting the Italian had simply “disappeared”, although Litvinenko emphasised that he was not in a position to accuse him of involvement in his poisoning.



That night Litvinenko became violently ill. His wife Marina, 44, said: “At first I thought it was just a bug but then he started vomiting. But it wasn’t normal vomiting.”

She said her husband is a fit man who often runs three miles a day. He had no previous record of medical problems. He was admitted to Barnet hospital on the third day. Nine days ago, his condition suddenly deteriorated and he lost all his hair. Doctors say Litvinenko has not eaten for 18 days and is receiving what little nourishment he can take via an intravenous drip.

Russian and East European agents have a history of using poisons to attack their enemies. Markov was poisoned with ricin and died three days later.
More recently Victor Yuschenko suffered facial disfigurement after being poisoned with suspected dioxin as he campaigned for the presidency of Ukraine.

Litvinenko, a specialist in fighting organised crime, came to prominence in 1998 after he accused the Russian authorities of trying to kill Boris Berezovsky, a tycoon close to Boris Yeltsin, who was then president.

He claims he was drummed out of the spy agency and subjected to harassment to punish him for speaking out. He was arrested twice on what he says were trumped up charges. Although he was acquitted, he spent months in Moscow prisons.

In 2000 he was arrested for a third time on charges of faking evidence in an investigation. Friends told him he was unlikely to escape lightly under the Putin regime.

Litvinenko decided to flee before he was arrested. Stripped by the authorities of his passport, he ended up in Turkey where he joined Marina and their son Anatoly, who had flown from Moscow on tourist visas. They came to Britain and claimed asylum. He has been a thorn in Moscow’s side ever since.

Marina said she was hoping to find a bone marrow donor to save her husband’s life.

Doctors have moved him to another hospital offering more specialised treatment and police have taken his family into protective custody.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... _1,00.html
 
So, if it really was the Russian Intelligence, why is the guy still alive and why did they use something as easily traceable as thallium?
 
Therein lies the real mystery.

What if it was some cack handed amateur the Russian Mafia had indirectly hired through an administrative error?

Why Russian Mafia?

Well that leads into another conspiracy theory that Putin is in fact their lackey.
 
Agatha Christie uses thallium as a poison in The Pale Horse.

I've heard that AC is quite popular in Russia.

I wondered about the Russian Mafia as well.
 
coldelephant said:
Therein lies the real mystery.

What if it was some cack handed amateur the Russian Mafia had indirectly hired through an administrative error?

Why Russian Mafia?

Well that leads into another conspiracy theory that Putin is in fact their lackey.

well he does business with some pretty dodgy people apparently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j ... bram02.xml
 
Didn't somebody try to bump off Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko with Thallium? I wonder if it's the same people behind both plots, or is this a popular way of assassination in Eastern Europe?
 
Timble2 said:
Agatha Christie uses thallium as a poison in The Pale Horse.
.

But wasn't young Mr. Graham Young the first Briton to actually carry out a murder by thallium?
 
gncxx said:
Didn't somebody try to bump off Ukrainian president Viktor Yushchenko with Thallium? I wonder if it's the same people behind both plots, or is this a popular way of assassination in Eastern Europe?
Dioxins.

...

More news. Apparently who ever had a go at the ex-KGB man used radioactive thallium.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6167728.stm

Radioactive poison fear over spy
Tuesday, 21 November 2006

The Russian dissident ill in a London hospital may have been poisoned with a radioactive substance, an expert toxicologist has said.

Professor John Henry said Alexander Litvinenko, 41, had symptoms consistent with thallium poisoning but other symptoms linked to other substances.

"It's not 100% thallium," Dr Henry said outside University College Hospital.

He said the poison may have been radioactive thallium, which would now be difficult to trace.

He said: "It may be too late. If it's a radioactive poison with a short half-life it may have gone.

"Radioactive thallium degrades very rapidly so that by now we've missed the chance [to trace the poison]."

Radioactive thallium is used in hospitals but Dr Henry said it was not used in massive doses consistent with Mr Litvinenko's condition.

The critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin fell ill on 1 November after a meeting at a London sushi bar.

'Sheer nonsense'

Scotland Yard anti-terrorist officers have taken charge of the investigation into the poisoning by thallium of a former KGB colonel living in the UK.

The hospital said his condition was unchanged overnight.

The Kremlin has dismissed as "sheer nonsense" claims it was involved.

...
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Timble2 said:
Agatha Christie uses thallium as a poison in The Pale Horse.
.

But wasn't young Mr. Graham Young the first Briton to actually carry out a murder by thallium?

He definitely used it - I'm not entirely sure as to whether he was the first to do so, however.

Meanwhile, doctors aren't now so sure that Mr. Litvinenko was poisoned with thallium: -

Poisoned spy 'had death threats'

A friend of a former Russian spy seriously ill in a London hospital said both had received e-mail threats days before his poisoning.


Italian Mario Scaramella told a Rome press conference that he met Alexander Litvinenko the day he fell ill.

Scotland Yard anti-terrorist officers have taken charge of the investigation.

Meanwhile, doubts persist over whether the substance responsible for Mr Litvinenko's illness was the toxic metal thallium, or some other poison.

Toxicologist Professor John Henry said at University College Hospital that the poison may have been a radioactive form of thallium, which would now be difficult to trace, but that some other substance was also involved.

Meanwhile, officers are treating the case as a suspected "deliberate poisoning" and say it could have taken place in the last two weeks.

Police have not yet identified the 'time window' in which the poisoning was administered.

The doctor treating the former spy said in the hospital's first official statement that the cause may never be found.

Dr Amit Nathwani said it was possible he may not have been poisoned by thallium, adding that he could not be sure because of the time he presented himself to University College Hospital.

The consultant said his patient was seriously ill but stable - a situation which had not deteriorated substantially in the last day.

He added that moving him into intensive care had been a precautionary measure.

Dr Nathwani also complained that media interest in the case had become "somewhat intrusive".

BBC Rome correspondent Christian Fraser said Mr Scaramella, who is involved in an Italian parliamentary inquiry into KGB activity, was sufficiently worried by the contents of an e-mail to ask for advice from Mr Litvinenko.

He said he met the Russian in a London sushi bar on 1 November for 35 minutes to discuss the e-mail.

He said Mr Litvinenko had promised to look into the message but when Mr Scaramella called him later that night the Russian was already falling ill.

Meanwhile, detectives are planning to travel to Italy to interview Mr Scaramella and are also investigating whether Mr Litvinenko was being followed.

Dr Henry said Mr Litvinenko, 43, had symptoms consistent with thallium poisoning but other symptoms linked to other substances.

He said Mr Litvinenko's bone marrow was not functioning and his white cell count has dropped to zero.

"Something other than thallium is involved," he said.

Radioactive thallium is used in hospitals, but Dr Henry said it was not used in massive doses consistent with Mr Litvinenko's condition.

"Poisons can be taken by mouth, they can be injected, they can be inhaled," he said.

"In this case his symptoms are gastro-intestinal so the probability is that he has swallowed something that is poisoned.

Friends of Mr Litvinenko have alleged he was poisoned because he was critical of the Russian government.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said they did not want to comment about the accusations, which they called "sheer nonsense".

Russia's foreign intelligence service also denied involvement.

Mr Litvinenko had been investigating the murder of Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, an outspoken critic of Mr Putin and Russian policy in Chechnya, who was shot dead at her Moscow apartment building last month.

Story from BBC NEWS:

Published: 2006/11/22 10:02:31 GMT

© BBC MMVI
 
The KGB has used radioactive Thallium in the past to try and murder a former agent who defected to the West Nicolai Khokhlov.

In the 1950s, Georgi Okolovich was a prominent dissident Russian emigre. He was an official in the Popular Labor Alliance of Russian Solidarists, an anti-Soviet group based in West Germany. The KGB marked him for death.

In 1954, Soviet assassin Nicolai Khokhlov was sent to West Germany to kill him. But the plot hit an unusual snag: before accomplishing his mission, the assassin converted to Christianity and rejected his murderous profession. Upon his arrival in West Germany he defected and warned Okolovich about the plots against him.

By saving Okolovich's life, however, Khokhlov became a marked man himself: in 1957 the KGB poisoned him with radioactive thallium. Hospitalized and given massive blood transfusions and a variety of antitoxins, he survived.

Radioactive Thallium is used as a radioactive tracer in medicine and has a half life of about 3 days so it would be difficult to trace after a few weeks. One of the treatments for it is Prussian Blue, not the creepy child singers but the drug.
 
Ex-Russian spy dies in hospital

Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko has died in hospital three weeks after apparently being poisoned in London.
University College Hospital, London, said Mr Litvinenko had died at 2121 GMT on Thursday and the cause of his condition was still being investigated.

Friends have said the 43-year-old was poisoned because of his criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin - Russia has denied any involvement.

Scotland Yard said they were now investigating "an unexplained death".

Defector

A hospital spokesman said: "Every avenue was explored to establish the cause of [Mr Litvinenko's] condition and the matter is now an ongoing investigation being dealt with by detectives from New Scotland Yard.

"Because of this we will not be commenting any further on this matter. Our thoughts are with Mr Litvinenko's family."

Mr Litvinenko, who defected to the UK in 2000 and was later granted asylum and citizenship, was apparently poisoned on November 1.

Thallium theory

He was admitted to University College Hospital on 17 November. His condition deteriorated after he suffered a heart attack overnight on Wednesday.

Initial reports from the hospital said Mr Litvinenko had been poisoned with the heavy metal thallium, but later it was suggested that some form of radioactive material may have been used.

Head of critical care at the hospital, Dr Geoff Bellingan, has subsequently dismissed both of these explanations.

Reports of three objects found on X-rays of the patient were "misleading" and were almost certainly shadows caused by Prussian Blue, used to treat thallium or caesium poisoning, he said.

Asylum

Before Mr Litvinenko's death, police said they suspected "deliberate poisoning".

Investigations are examining two meetings, one at a London hotel with a former KGB agent and another man, and a later rendezvous with Italian security consultant Mario Scaramella at a sushi restaurant in London's West End.

Mr Litvinenko fled to the UK in 2000, claiming persecution in Russia, and was granted asylum. He is understood to have taken British citizenship this year.

He had been investigating the murder of Russian investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya.

Both the Kremlin and Russia's foreign intelligence service, the SVR, have denied any part in poisoning Mr Litvinenko, who is a former security agent with Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6178890.stm
 
This morning's R4 News at 8am led with a scoop that his intestines had three unidentified packages in them.

Was it 8am or 7am? I'd hate to be wrong. Later news was not exactly detailed. RIP. :(
 
Must have been 7.00 am, as I heard it on Today as well and I left the house at 7.45 yesterday.

See if the post mortem sheds any light :(.
 
The three packages was in yesterday's news as well. The death was on the news right from the start of R4 this morning...
 
Re: Ex-Russian spy dies in hospital

So is that over and above this part of the article?

Rarebird said:
Reports of three objects found on X-rays of the patient were "misleading" and were almost certainly shadows caused by Prussian Blue, used to treat thallium or caesium poisoning, he said.

What I mean is, are they now saying the items are suspicious again after having said they are not?

Poor chap.
 
This case gets stranger and stranger, it's not surprising they couldn't figure out what the toxin was.

Radiation tests after spy death
Mr Litvinenko's condition deteriorated rapidly in hospital
Litvinenko statement


Police and health experts probing the death of the Russian ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko are searching various locations for radioactive material.
Mr Litvinenko's death, in a London hospital on Thursday, has been linked to the presence of a "major dose" of radioactive polonium 210 in his body.

Tests have taken place at two hospitals he had been at but the risk to anyone else is said to be "insignificant".

The Kremlin has denied Mr Litvinenko's claims that it was involved.

Professor Pat Troop from the Health Protection Agency told a news conference Mr Litvinenko would have had to either eaten, inhaled or been given the dose of polonium 210 though a wound.

A post mortem examination on Mr Litvinenko has not been held yet.

POLONIUM 210 radioactive substance that occurs naturally
present in foods in low doses
created naturally in the body
can be manufactured using the bombardment of neutrons
has industrial uses such as in anti-static devices


The delay is believed to concerns over the health implications for those present at the examination.

Medical experts had previously expressed differing opinions over substances that could have possibly led to his death.

Initial reports that he was given the heavy metal thallium gave way to other theories including radiation poisoning.

Meanwhile, the government's civil contingencies committee Cobra has met twice to discuss the case.

The Home Office said anybody concerned should contact NHS Direct on 0845 4647, who have been briefed about this issue.

'Sheer nonsense'

Friends have said Mr Litvinenko was poisoned because of his criticism of Russia.


LITVINENKO TIMELINE
1 Nov - Alexander Litvinenko meets two Russian men at a London hotel and then meets Italian academic Mario Scaramella at a sushi bar in Piccadilly. Hours later he falls ill and is admitted to Barnet General Hospital
17 Nov - Mr Litvinenko is transferred to UCH
19 Nov - Reports say Mr Litvinenko is poisoned with thallium
21 Nov - A toxicologist says he may have been poisoned with "radioactive thallium"
22 Nov - Mr Litvinenko's condition deteriorates overnight. Thallium and radiation ruled out
23 Nov - The ex-spy dies in intensive care


Police searches are taking place at Mr Litvinenko's house in north London and other places he has been.

In a statement dictated before he died, the 43-year-old accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of involvement in his death.

Mr Litvinenko had recently been investigating the murder of his friend, Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, another critic of the Putin government.

Mr Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov reiterated the Kremlin's earlier dismissal of allegations of involvement in the poisoning as "sheer nonsense".

Mr Putin himself has said the was a tragedy, but saw no "definitive proof" it was a "violent death".

Meetings probed

Before Mr Litvinenko's death, police said they suspected "deliberate poisoning" was behind his illness.

Investigators have been examining two meetings he had on 1 November - one at a London hotel with a former KGB agent and another man, and a later rendezvous with Italian security consultant Mario Scaramella, at a sushi restaurant in London's West End.

Mr Litvinenko, who was granted asylum in the UK in 2000 after complaining of persecution in Russia, fell ill later that day.

In an interview with Friday's Telegraph newspaper, former KGB bodyguard Andrei Lugovoi said he had met Mr Litvinenko at the Millennium Hotel in Grosvenor Square but vigorously denied any involvement in the poisoning.

Mr Scaramella, who is involved in an Italian parliamentary inquiry into Russian secret service activity, said they met because he wanted to discuss an e-mail he had received.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/6180682.stm

Published: 2006/11/24 15:29:51 GMT

© BBC MMVI
 
Must admit, my first reaction on reading the above was to wonder why either Russian intelligence or organised crime would go to such extraordinary lengths as to poison someone with Polonium? The former have access to all manner of completely untraceable means of killing people, and the latter usually just make them vanish on the quiet (or if they're making a point, a double tap to the head.)

Unless it's some kind of bizarre double bluff, but again, why bother, especially if it could cause diplomatic tension - unless that's the idea. Oh, I don't bloody know. See what happens.
 
Maybe somebody needs a political crowbar to put pressure on Putin regarding OIL.

Just a thought ;)
 
A thought which occured to myself: A rather botched British Intel operation to do their buds in Russia a favor? ;)
 
The mysterious death of a former Russian spy living in exile in London turned into an unprecedented public health scare yesterday when it emerged that he had been deliberately poisoned by a major dose of radioactive material.

Further traces of the substance were found at a sushi restaurant and at a central London hotel where Alexander Litvinenko met a number of people before falling ill, and at his home in the city.

Article continues
He was killed by polonium 210, a rare radioactive isotope which is so toxic that there may never be a postmortem examination of Mr Litvinenko's body, for fear of causing further deaths.

Police and security sources said they had never encountered such an extraordinary death. "Nothing like this has ever happened before," said one Whitehall source. "It is unprecedented, we are in uncharted territory." One priority last night was to establish who has access to polonium 210 anywhere in the world.

Government ministers meanwhile, are said to be "dreading" the possible repercussions of a public inquest into Mr Litvinenko's death, at which they expect his associates to make damning accusations against the Russian government.

Last night health officials were contacting up to 100 people - hospital staff and relatives - who came into contact with the former spy during his three weeks at two London hospitals, so they can be screened for contamination. The home secretary, John Reid, also convened Cobra, the government's emergency planning committee, to discuss the situation.

The Health Protection Agency (HPA) said the risk to hospital staff was extremely low, as alpha radiation from the ex-agent's body would need to be inhaled, swallowed, or enter an open wound before causing harm. Normal hospital practices should have prevented this. Nor would anybody be at risk just because they had been close to Mr Litvinenko.

But the agency said it could not assess the level of risk to the public who had visited locations which had been contaminated with the substance. Professor Roger Cox, director of the HPA's centre for radiological, chemical and environmental hazards, said there was insufficient information to make such an assessment. Last night police were refusing to say how much of the substance was found at the hotel and restaurant, or at Mr Litvinenko's house in Muswell Hill, north London.

Radiation from the polonium was first detected in Mr Litvinenko's urine hours before he died on Thursday night. There is no antidote to the substance and the HPA said that such a large dose would always kill once ingested. Scientists are trying to use computer models, based on analysis of Mr Litvinenko's urine, and the apparent damage to his organs over the last three weeks, to work out when he may have been poisoned.

While Scotland Yard say they are treating his death as suspicious, they are not describing their investigation as a murder inquiry. One possibility being considered is that Mr Litvinenko poisoned himself.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command, which is conducting the investigation, said: "We continue to carry out a thorough investigation. There will also be an extensive examination of CCTV footage."

Enemies of the Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, blamed him - insisting the poisoning bore the hallmarks of an assassination by Mr Litvinenko's former colleagues from the FSB, a successor to the KGB. Mr Litvinenko fled to Britain six years ago after revealing an alleged plot to murder Boris Berezovsky, a multimillionaire businessman also in exile in the UK.

On November 1, he met Mario Scaramella, an Italian academic, at a sushi restaurant. Mr Scaramella showed him two emails, obtained by the Guardian, which warned "Russian intelligence officers speak more and more about necessity to use force" against critics of Russia including Mr Berezovsky and Mr Litvinenko.

Yesterday Mr Litvinenko's associates, many of them employees of Mr Berezovsky, produced a statement which they said was made by Mr Litvinenko last Tuesday, in which he blamed Mr Putin for his impending death.

"The howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life," he is said to have declared. "May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people."

Mr Putin brushed aside such claims yesterday, telling a press conference: "There is no ground for speculation of this kind. A death of a man is always a tragedy and I deplore this and send my condolences to the family."

Some of Mr Putin's aides went further, hinting at an expatriate plot to discredit the Russian government. "I am far from being a champion of conspiracy theory," said Sergei Yastrzhembsky, Mr Putin's chief envoy to the EU. "But it looks like we are facing a well-orchestrated campaign or a plan to consistently discredit Russia and its leader."

The Foreign Office confirmed last night that officials had discussed Mr Litvinenko's death with the Russian ambassador at a meeting yesterday afternoon, and had asked Moscow for any information which would assist Scotland Yard with their inquiries.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,1956680,00.html

The bit about him possibly poisoning himself caught my eye, thats doublethink with a vengeance...
 
It certainly is. Particularly as it killed him so slowly and painfully. I wouldn't kill myself with that!

stuneville said:
Must admit, my first reaction on reading the above was to wonder why either Russian intelligence or organised crime would go to such extraordinary lengths as to poison someone with Polonium? The former have access to all manner of completely untraceable means of killing people, and the latter usually just make them vanish on the quiet (or if they're making a point, a double tap to the head.)

What would be the point in that though? Better to poison someone horribly with something that will make them die a lingering death and make sure everyone knows about it. After all, do you now fancy investigating the death of Anna Politkovskaya? :shock:
 
Litvinenko murdered for outing Putin as pedophile?

Look what Litvinenko had to say about Putin in July (only available through google cache):

www.chechenpress.co.uk
July, 05, 2006

The Kremlin Pedophile

By Alexander Litvinenko

A few days ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin walked from the Big Kremlin Palace to his Residence. At one of the Kremlin squares, the president stopped to chat with the tourists. Among them was a boy aged 4 or 5.

'What is your name?' Putin asked.

'Nikita,' the boy replied.

Putin kneed, lifted the boy's T-shirt and kissed his stomach.

The world public is shocked. Nobody can understand why the Russian president did such a strange thing as kissing the stomach of an unfamiliar small boy.

The explanation may be found if we look carefully at the so-called "blank spots" in Putin's biography.

After graduating from the Andropov Institute, which prepares officers for the KGB intelligence service, Putin was not accepted into the foreign intelligence. Instead, he was sent to a junior position in KGB Leningrad Directorate. This was a very unusual twist for a career of an Andropov Institute's graduate with fluent German. Why did that happen with Putin?

Because, shortly before his graduation, his bosses learned that Putin was a pedophile. So say some people who knew Putin as a student at the Institute.

The Institute officials feared to report this to their own superiors, which would cause an unpleasant investigation. They decided it was easier just to avoid sending Putin abroad under some pretext. Such a solution is not unusual for the secret services.

Many years later, when Putin became the FSB director and was preparing for presidency, he began to seek and destroy any compromising materials collected against him by the secret services over earlier years. It was not difficult, provided he himself was the FSB director. Among other things, Putin found videotapes in the FSB Internal Security Directorate, which showed him making sex with some underage boys.

Interestingly, the video was recorded in the same conspiratorial flat in Polyanka Street in Moscow where Russian Prosecutor-General Yuri Skuratov was secretly video-taped with two prostitutes. Later, in the famous scandal, Putin (on Roman Abramovich's instructions) blackmailed Skuratov with these tapes and tried to persuade the Prosecutor-General to resign. In that conversation, Putin mentioned to Skuratov that he himself was also secretly video-taped making sex at the same bed. (But of course, he did not tell it was pedophilia rather than normal sex.) Later, Skuratov wrote about this in his book Variant Drakona (p.p. 153-154).
 
Re: Litvinenko murdered for outing Putin as pedophile?

Oh crap..
liger7 said:
Look what Litvinenko had to say about Putin in July (only available through google cache):

.....
The Kremlin Pedophile....

ALLEGEDLY.

Threads merged.
 
techybloke666 said:
Maybe somebody needs a political crowbar to put pressure on Putin regarding OIL.

Just a thought ;)

it may just be a thought but it wouldn't really explain much. if it was a british job then the russians will know this. that means the risk of exposure or reprisal would be very high. and in what way would it help WITH oil then ? i can see how, if the kremlin is guilty, it can be used as a bargaining chip over the bombing of iran, for example, but i can't see what pressure they'll be able to put on if the kremlin can wriggle its way out of this.

morningstar667 said:
A thought which occured to myself: A rather botched British Intel operation to do their buds in Russia a favor? ;)

in which case why not just trump up a charge and deport him?
 
Surely drink or drugs and a high window or fast car would be a better way to have killed him rather than a very slow talkative death in hospital ? I wonder if he was involved in any shady nuke deals or had pissed off someone a little less powerful than the Kremlin, perhaps some ex colleagues who regarded his treachery as personal and took freelance revenge.
 
it may well be that whilst we in britain are disgusted by it that those critics in russia are scared by it. perhaps they see the risk of international condemnation being offset by internal criticism being silenced, a sort of "this is what you get when you mess with us".
 
do you now fancy investigating the death of Anna Politkovskaya?

Yep sure do ;)

Ted who do you think is behind his death ?

Putin is putting as lot of pressure on Bush and Co at the moment, and Bush would gladly see some of his own world stage limelight deflected onto Mr Putin.

And yep I,m only thinking out loud I have no proof of any involvement of anyone in the tragic affair.

One does have to wonder however how the assisin came to have substance in his possession.

Thalium can be bought on ebay.

I think this cannot be purchased in such a manner.
 
ted_bloody_maul said:
techybloke666 said:
Maybe somebody needs a political crowbar to put pressure on Putin regarding OIL.

Just a thought ;)

it may just be a thought but it wouldn't really explain much. if it was a british job then the russians will know this. that means the risk of exposure or reprisal would be very high. and in what way would it help WITH oil then ? i can see how, if the kremlin is guilty, it can be used as a bargaining chip over the bombing of iran, for example, but i can't see what pressure they'll be able to put on if the kremlin can wriggle its way out of this.

morningstar667 said:
A thought which occured to myself: A rather botched British Intel operation to do their buds in Russia a favor? ;)

in which case why not just trump up a charge and deport him?
There is absolutely no way that this assassination, if that's what it was, could put a "political crowbar on Putin regarding OIL", because OIL and GAS are Putin's political crowbars and that's a lot of leverage.

Why would the Brits go to so much trouble? After all, it's much more likely for someone to be run over by a bus, or a taxicab, than it is to die of radiation poisoning, especially in London.
 
Russian ire

But such speculation has raised the ire of Russian contributors to Have Your Say.

"Russia is no longer a wild country and we don't need to kill anyone, especially the 'enemies' of this country," says Nora from St. Petersburg.

I was really puzzled at the way the British media covered this and at how people have reacted.

Larissa Sazolonova
Many see an anti-Russian agenda in the reporting of the affair and ignorance on the part of message board posters from around the world. So they have flocked to the forums to launch their corrective.

Ivan Obzherin in Russia is eager to point out what he sees as a cruel irony of the situation.

" People accusing someone else without proof, trusting in everything that is written in newspapers - isn't that from Russian history, from the times of Stalin? Oh, no! That now happens in modern Western countries. I was very surprised to see that..."

Larissa Sazolonova wanted to talk at greater length about her comments on the Have Your Say message board.

"I was really puzzled at the way the British media covered this and at how people have reacted.

"I read message board comments and it looks as if people really believe that Putin personally sent some evil agent to poison the guy!

'What reason?'

What perplexes most of the Russian contributors is why people believe the Russian regime would want Alexander Litvinenko dead. They believe he was simply not important enough.

"Believe me, high Russian politicians, especially Vladimir Putin, have more important things to do than chase ex-KGB agents around the world," writes Marco from Moscow.

HAVE YOUR SAY
Why did it take so long to establish that Mr Litvinenko was poisoned with a radioactive substance?

Amanda, London


Send us your comments

Others say that nobody in the Russian establishment would carry out an act so certain to tarnish its reputation.

"What reason could they have? For me it is quite obvious that the death of Litvinenko has no immediate benefit for the Russian government," said Alexander Korotkevich, a scientific researcher from Moscow.

"A lot of people are using the old stereotypes of the almighty KGB and the ideology of the Cold War. The Russian government may not be good people, but they are pragmatic.

"For them, Litvinenko was a paper tiger."

These online dissenters do have support from elsewhere. The most recommended comment on the Have Your Say debate is from Harry in Farnham in the UK.

He asks: "Is the media trying to stir up animosity towards Russia in the same way that it did during the cold war?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6183704.stm

A few Russian comments on the affair.

I disagree if this can be pinned on Putin it puts his intention regarding OIL etc under international pressure, possibly for him to resign.

and Mr Bush would certainly welcome that happening.

What reason could they have? For me it is quite obvious that the death of Litvinenko has no immediate benefit for the Russian government," said Alexander Korotkevich, a scientific researcher from Moscow

My thoughts exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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