Poltergeists

FrKadash

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Hadn't heard of this 1906 case before, it's quite interesting,

Wärndorfer and the Poltergeist of Lerchenfelderstrasse 158
Thursday 07 December 2017

Zimmerl employed only two apprentices and all were alarmed by the flying about of tools and pieces of iron which occasionally struck and hurt them. The smith was at first suspicious of the boys and watched them, but found that things still flew about in various directions even when they were outside the shop. On one occasion the smith’s pipe was taken from his mouth, and was seen to flutter to the lathe (Holms, 1927, p246-247).
One of the references:
''Barrett, W.F. “The Vienna Poltergeist”. Society for Psychical Research (Great Britain). Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research v25. London: Trübner and Co., 1911.''

https://esoterx.com/2017/12/07/warndorfer-and-the-poltergeist-of-lerchenfelderstrasse-158/

Another article on the case, https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/vienna-workshop-poltergeist
 

AlchoPwn

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Poltergeists are fascinating. Unfortunately I am no longer a sexually neurotic teen, so I may have missed my window to develop telekinesis.

:fetish:
 

Chris Warr

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Hi all,
A couple of random thoughts on Polts,
Despite the obvious fraud in some cases, I do believe Polt activity is real, as I experienced some, very mild, activity in my teens.
I've always thought the unconscious telekinesis explanation the most likely. A bit like a person suffering from multiple personality disorder, where each personality is unaware of the others, but one has TK abilities?
But then how to explain the cases where no obvious TK subject is present, IE previously empty buildings?
Maybe the TK ability develops a sort of semi life of it's own? Drawing power from the building / current observers / somewhere?
May explain the repeated door knocking / sounds etc repeated over and over again with no real intelligence behind it?
Your thoughts would be welcome?
CW.
 

EnolaGaia

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Maybe it's something akin to a more ephemeral Stone Tape scenario - 'vibes' somehow being 'recorded' in a place or setting and somehow being triggered into 'playback' when someone's present or nearby.

Is this the sort of thing you were suggesting?
 

Chris Warr

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Yeah, or drawing down energy from somewhere.
The thing that strikes me is that Polts with a human agent are very actively intense, and varied in their activities, but last only a relatively short period, of weeks, or months.
But, Polts without an agent can go on for years / decades, but only repeating a limited range of activities.
I was thinking more of the Tulpa that breaks free of it's creator, but has no real intelligence from that point.
CW
 

AlchoPwn

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Hi all,
A couple of random thoughts on Polts,
Despite the obvious fraud in some cases, I do believe Polt activity is real, as I experienced some, very mild, activity in my teens.
I've always thought the unconscious telekinesis explanation the most likely. A bit like a person suffering from multiple personality disorder, where each personality is unaware of the others, but one has TK abilities?
But then how to explain the cases where no obvious TK subject is present, IE previously empty buildings?
Maybe the TK ability develops a sort of semi life of it's own? Drawing power from the building / current observers / somewhere?
May explain the repeated door knocking / sounds etc repeated over and over again with no real intelligence behind it?
Your thoughts would be welcome?
CW.
There is a well documented connection between adolescents and poltergeist activity. Some have said that they are an expression of sexual frustration boiling over. It that is true, then they might be a form of very kinetic Tulpa/Egregore/Artificial Elemental. Here is an interesting article about Philip the invented ghost who seems to be midway between a tulpa and a polt:

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-create-a-ghost-2594058
 

macc

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Thanks for the link lordmongrove , quite enjoyed that
 

Tempest63

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I was standing in the Witham branch of Morrison’s yesterday looking for a bottle of squash without any of the sweeteners in it, Mrs T63 hates sweeteners, says they leave a nasty aftertaste. A young couple rocked up pushing a pram and whilst examining the best that Morrison’s had to offer a bottle of what looked like lemon barley water somehow jumped up and off the top shelf immediately in front of them, turned 180° on the horizontal axis, hit the pram that was clearly two to three feet from the shelf causing the lid to fall off and spill over the pram before landing on the floor spewing the rest of its contents. Another couple arrived just at the moment that the bottle went airborne stating “how did that happen?”. We all made funny little comments about poltergeists and haunting, apart from the lady pushing the pram. She looked mightily pissed off about the stain on her new pram. Definite weirdness but I’m sure it is explainable.
 

JamesWhitehead

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There are a lot of shop-based poltergeist videos online, many of them taken from surveillance camera footage and horribly fuzzy.

The more spectacular ones seem to originate in earthquake zones, though there is seldom much detail about the location.

The turning of the bottle in the air is hard to account for. Did you check if that product contained sweeteners or not?

If not, it may be the prototype of a new generation of self-selecting products, throwing itself at you but getting its
trajectory a little bit wrong! :actw:
 

Tempest63

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It attacked the couple with the pram. I never looked in the pram following the incident, I saw the Omen and Rosemarys baby first time round and was gravely concerned at what might be lurking in there...(cue music from the twilight zone).

And everything contained sweeteners except the most expensive organic ones. Sod the bloody sugar tax!
 

Eponastill

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That's really interesting, Lordmongrove - I'm just reading A R George Owen's book 'Can we explain the poltergeist?" (the title of the documentary) - and there he is! So a bit of a tie-in with the book (published the year before the documentary). Thank you for that. Poltergeists are definitely my favourite fortean thing! A R George Owen was also the chap in charge of the 'Philip experiment' btw.

It's so refreshing to watch something that isn't a hammed-up 'paranormal extravaganza'. People just recount their stories while sitting in their living rooms. There are no silly reconstructions. ARG Owen stays overnight in one of the houses and nothing happens. Really excellent and so nice to see the man that wrote the book. Thank you for the pointer!

[edit - I see the same channel has a video on the Philip Experiment too, so that's my afternoon's viewing sorted :) ]
 
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McAvennie

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We moved into a new apartment in an old Art Deco building in March, a few odd things have happened. Things being moved etc.

Couple of nights ago it peaked. Sitting on the sofa early evening I noticed that I had heard several times a clack noise, like cutlery moving against a plate. I listened, and there it was again. My first thought was a rat in my kitchen... There was signs up in the basement about deratisation so wondered if maybe something had fled up a drain. Nothing, no sign of anything having moved, nothing that could obviously be causing the noise.

I went back to the sofa. A few minutes later. Clack. I rushed back to the kitchen, again, nothing. I wondered if maybe the tap was leaking and causing a spoon to be moving, but no, tested a dripping tap and it had no impact.

So back to the sofa, and again it came clack clack. I decided it had to have a rational explanation so set up my camera phone and tripod at the sink and left it running. Five minutes passed no clack. So I shut down the camera phone and went back to the sofa. A minute later, clack.

At that point a chill went down my spine. It was mocking my efforts to catch it out. My wife came in the kitchen to investigate, she doesn't get freaked out by these things, moved any plates in the sink about but saw nothing. I set the camera phone up again and then we went to the dining room to have dinner. I kept my ear out but no noise. We decided it must have been solved by moving the dishes in the sink.

About 15 minutes had passed, no noise, so I took my camera phone down and went back to the sofa. Almost immediately as I sat down three clacks in a row. Even my wife froze and looked at me with a WTF expression. Again, it had taunted me, mocking my efforts to catch it on camera.

I went back to the kitchen and twice more it made its clack noise, right behind me on the top of the dishwasher where a plate with a knife and fork sat. With new resolve I set the camera phone up again, pointed directly at the plate on the dishwasher and decided to leave it for as long as it took.

About fifteen minutes later we heard the clack. All the while inbetween I'd been racking my brain to remember what I knew about polts, don't give them attention, talk to them and tell them you know they are there, what is it you are meant to do?

I checked the video and there it was, the clack I heard but nothing to see. No moving cutlery. Then as I studied the video the clack came again right by me. I looked at the plate again, I noticed it was touching the kettle so went to move the kettle away... Red hot! I then noticed the button you press down to turn on the kettle. It had sat just under the rim of the plate. A quick test putting it back where it was and letting it go... Clack.

Mystery solved. The button had been accidentally pushed down and when the kettle boiled the button was hitting the plate when it went off and couldn't complete it's boil cycle. Thus cooling down then reheating, reaching boiling point, trying to end it's cycle, being blocked and repeat.

Somewhat relieved to have found the rational answer, it made me consider, how many phantom raps, taps and knockings must have a rational but not always obvious answer.

Doesn't solve the mystery of how a full pack of toilet roll fell off a shelf into the toilet during the night though. Or the tap that we woke up to one morning running full blast... :/
 

Mythopoeika

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We moved into a new apartment in an old Art Deco building in March, a few odd things have happened. Things being moved etc.

Couple of nights ago it peaked. Sitting on the sofa early evening I noticed that I had heard several times a clack noise, like cutlery moving against a plate. I listened, and there it was again. My first thought was a rat in my kitchen... There was signs up in the basement about deratisation so wondered if maybe something had fled up a drain. Nothing, no sign of anything having moved, nothing that could obviously be causing the noise.

I went back to the sofa. A few minutes later. Clack. I rushed back to the kitchen, again, nothing. I wondered if maybe the tap was leaking and causing a spoon to be moving, but no, tested a dripping tap and it had no impact.

So back to the sofa, and again it came clack clack. I decided it had to have a rational explanation so set up my camera phone and tripod at the sink and left it running. Five minutes passed no clack. So I shut down the camera phone and went back to the sofa. A minute later, clack.

At that point a chill went down my spine. It was mocking my efforts to catch it out. My wife came in the kitchen to investigate, she doesn't get freaked out by these things, moved any plates in the sink about but saw nothing. I set the camera phone up again and then we went to the dining room to have dinner. I kept my ear out but no noise. We decided it must have been solved by moving the dishes in the sink.

About 15 minutes had passed, no noise, so I took my camera phone down and went back to the sofa. Almost immediately as I sat down three clacks in a row. Even my wife froze and looked at me with a WTF expression. Again, it had taunted me, mocking my efforts to catch it on camera.

I went back to the kitchen and twice more it made its clack noise, right behind me on the top of the dishwasher where a plate with a knife and fork sat. With new resolve I set the camera phone up again, pointed directly at the plate on the dishwasher and decided to leave it for as long as it took.

About fifteen minutes later we heard the clack. All the while inbetween I'd been racking my brain to remember what I knew about polts, don't give them attention, talk to them and tell them you know they are there, what is it you are meant to do?

I checked the video and there it was, the clack I heard but nothing to see. No moving cutlery. Then as I studied the video the clack came again right by me. I looked at the plate again, I noticed it was touching the kettle so went to move the kettle away... Red hot! I then noticed the button you press down to turn on the kettle. It had sat just under the rim of the plate. A quick test putting it back where it was and letting it go... Clack.

Mystery solved. The button had been accidentally pushed down and when the kettle boiled the button was hitting the plate when it went off and couldn't complete it's boil cycle. Thus cooling down then reheating, reaching boiling point, trying to end it's cycle, being blocked and repeat.

Somewhat relieved to have found the rational answer, it made me consider, how many phantom raps, taps and knockings must have a rational but not always obvious answer.

Doesn't solve the mystery of how a full pack of toilet roll fell off a shelf into the toilet during the night though. Or the tap that we woke up to one morning running full blast... :/
I enjoyed that!
Since the lockdown, I have noticed more noises around the house, mostly the kitchen and the conservatory. I don't think the house is haunted, but there are some recurring weirdnesses.
 

AlchoPwn

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Mystery solved. The button had been accidentally pushed down and when the kettle boiled the button was hitting the plate when it went off and couldn't complete it's boil cycle. Thus cooling down then reheating, reaching boiling point, trying to end it's cycle, being blocked and repeat. Somewhat relieved to have found the rational answer, it made me consider, how many phantom raps, taps and knockings must have a rational but not always obvious answer. Doesn't solve the mystery of how a full pack of toilet roll fell off a shelf into the toilet during the night though. Or the tap that we woke up to one morning running full blast... :/
I enjoyed that! Since the lockdown, I have noticed more noises around the house, mostly the kitchen and the conservatory. I don't think the house is haunted, but there are some recurring weirdnesses.
Temperature differentials cause a lot of strange things to happen, and a fair amount of movement in things that "should" remain static by our reasoning.

Remember the Death Valley Stones?

One wonders how many other slightly paranormal matters might be explained this way?
 

Mythopoeika

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Temperature differentials cause a lot of strange things to happen, and a fair amount of movement in things that "should" remain static by our reasoning.

Remember the Death Valley Stones?

One wonders how many other slightly paranormal matters might be explained this way?
Yeah, that is probably it, but it can cause a 'freak out' moment occasionally.
 

AlchoPwn

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Yeah, that is probably it, but it can cause a 'freak out' moment occasionally.
Let's face facts, we don't like things moving when the reason isn't clear. That isn't a bad thing. It's sensible, as it warns us about potential ambush. Of course the longer we stay on alert, the more stressed our body becomes. It's bad for us. That is why it is good to unravel these little conundrums; so we can safely relax.
 

Krepostnoi

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Somewhat relieved to have found the rational answer, it made me consider, how many phantom raps, taps and knockings must have a rational but not always obvious answer.
Do either you or your wife remember putting the plate in that position where it would affect the kettle switch in that way, though?
 

Tempest63

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We moved into a new apartment in an old Art Deco building in March, a few odd things have happened. Things being moved etc.

Couple of nights ago it peaked. Sitting on the sofa early evening I noticed that I had heard several times a clack noise, like cutlery moving against a plate. I listened, and there it was again. My first thought was a rat in my kitchen... There was signs up in the basement about deratisation so wondered if maybe something had fled up a drain. Nothing, no sign of anything having moved, nothing that could obviously be causing the noise.

I went back to the sofa. A few minutes later. Clack. I rushed back to the kitchen, again, nothing. I wondered if maybe the tap was leaking and causing a spoon to be moving, but no, tested a dripping tap and it had no impact.

So back to the sofa, and again it came clack clack. I decided it had to have a rational explanation so set up my camera phone and tripod at the sink and left it running. Five minutes passed no clack. So I shut down the camera phone and went back to the sofa. A minute later, clack.

At that point a chill went down my spine. It was mocking my efforts to catch it out. My wife came in the kitchen to investigate, she doesn't get freaked out by these things, moved any plates in the sink about but saw nothing. I set the camera phone up again and then we went to the dining room to have dinner. I kept my ear out but no noise. We decided it must have been solved by moving the dishes in the sink.

About 15 minutes had passed, no noise, so I took my camera phone down and went back to the sofa. Almost immediately as I sat down three clacks in a row. Even my wife froze and looked at me with a WTF expression. Again, it had taunted me, mocking my efforts to catch it on camera.

I went back to the kitchen and twice more it made its clack noise, right behind me on the top of the dishwasher where a plate with a knife and fork sat. With new resolve I set the camera phone up again, pointed directly at the plate on the dishwasher and decided to leave it for as long as it took.

About fifteen minutes later we heard the clack. All the while inbetween I'd been racking my brain to remember what I knew about polts, don't give them attention, talk to them and tell them you know they are there, what is it you are meant to do?

I checked the video and there it was, the clack I heard but nothing to see. No moving cutlery. Then as I studied the video the clack came again right by me. I looked at the plate again, I noticed it was touching the kettle so went to move the kettle away... Red hot! I then noticed the button you press down to turn on the kettle. It had sat just under the rim of the plate. A quick test putting it back where it was and letting it go... Clack.

Mystery solved. The button had been accidentally pushed down and when the kettle boiled the button was hitting the plate when it went off and couldn't complete it's boil cycle. Thus cooling down then reheating, reaching boiling point, trying to end it's cycle, being blocked and repeat.

Somewhat relieved to have found the rational answer, it made me consider, how many phantom raps, taps and knockings must have a rational but not always obvious answer.

Doesn't solve the mystery of how a full pack of toilet roll fell off a shelf into the toilet during the night though. Or the tap that we woke up to one morning running full blast... :/
Brilliant summary. When I first started reading this I thought you were going to say it was the flap on your cooker hood extract which shuts if a draft tries going the wrong way thru the vent. Only because I had a similar experience once and that was the cause.
Enjoyed this very much, thank you.
 

McAvennie

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An update on my 'hauntings', while the above was solved as I alluded to there have been numerous things that are just a little bit odd in my new place.

We put a picture up on the wall when we moved in using double-sided fixing tape. We used the same process on this picture in our old apartment and it held up for six years. Here, it fell off the wall within two days. I've only just got around to looking into reinstalling the picture today, with this on my mind while I was in the bathroom I looked at a metal sign we have on the door which I had put up using the same tape. It has been up since we came in and is firmly fixed. I absentmindedly though to myself "Strange how this one has remained secure but the other didn't".

An hour or so ago I heard a crashing noise, not unusual, I'm kind of used now to hearing noises from the kitchen and then investigating to find no sign of anything having moved. Just now I went back to the bathroom and there on the floor, the metal sign that had been so firmly stuck for the past two months.

Of course, coincidence, just happened that the tape on the metal sign gave out the exact afternoon I thought how firmly it was holding...

:oops:
 

Frideswide

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maybe a contraction or expansion noise? nothing would seem out of place...
 
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