Popular Songs That They Couldn't Write Now

INT21

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She certainly is a very inventive writer.

'Running up That Hill' is interesting if you listen to the words.

INT21.
 

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But does The Turn of the Screw hint quite so blatently at inappropriate sexual attraction ?
It's one of the themes that James has running throughout. You can read it without "seeing" it but many grounded analyses agree it's there. Starting with the main character's crush on her employer, moving through Miss Jessel's downfall and culminating in the description of the eventual death of Miles.

?Miles? it's been a while since I read it.
 

INT21

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I'll have to call in the library tomorrow and see if it is available.

Bush (one of my favourite singer/songwriters) does seem to be attracted to this theme.

Wuthering Heights is another example.

INT21.
 

escargot

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Escargot,

You are quite correct about the dress of my granddaughter eliciting the remark from my collegue.

The point I was making is that it wasn't obvious that she was a minor.
My point would be that however a woman or girl dresses and whether or not she's legally old enough to have sex, she's never 'asking for it'.
 

Swifty

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I doubt Patti Smith - Rock and Roll Nigger will get a cover version anytime soon (although Tamworth band Birdland did a cover of it in the early 90's)

 

JamesWhitehead

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Frankie Howerd and Margaret Rutherford recorded a semi-sung, semi-spoken sketch, "All's Going Well" in 1953, shortly before they were teamed in The Runaway Bus.

Made for the relatively new Philips company, it was coupled with a parody of Purcell's Nymphs & Shepherds, both sides offering them opportunities for extravagant vocal effects. I had the tracks on a comedy LP I owned as a kid. It was played to death, not so much because it was good but because it was there!

I had not realised that "All's Going Well" was an adaptation of a much earlier French routine, "Tout va très bien" attributed to Bach, Laverne & Misraki. [
is performed here on a 1935 Pathé disc by "Ray Ventura et ses Collégiens"[/url]

The French lyrics are translated here. They were considerably toned-down for the Howerd-Rutherford version.

Bach & Laverne were a comedy double-act attributed with the chorus of the song, "Tout va très bien" but the present shape of the piece is documented as the work of a single night in 1935, when song-writer Paul Misraki struggled to find a formula which would "warm up" an unresponsive audience in Nîmes. Ray Ventura and his Collegians found themselves with a hit. It led to a comedy film the following year.

The French-language Wikipedia page on the song is highly informative, tracing the genre back to the Exempla of Pierre Alphonse in the 12th Century:

"In Exemplum of Maimundo servo by Pierre Alphonse, the slave tells the master that the Bispella* bitch died, then she was trampled by the frightened mule who then fell into a well, then the mule was frightened of the death of the master's son, when the mother died of sorrow, and the house burned when a servant left a lighted candle in the room during the mistress's wake, then the maid died while trying to extinguish the fire."

The Purcell abomination on Philips is attributed on the label to Purcell, Jenkins. The song originated in Shadwell's play The Libertine but adaptation started early, the second stanza being the work of William Hayman Cummings. Purcell's setting was not the first, being added some twenty years after the play was first performed. A piece of incidental music from 1695 would seem an abstruse choice of subject for a 1953 parody and it is hard to imagine the record would have been made had it not been for the extraordinary popularity of a choral version made in 1929.

The Manchester Children's Choir was recruited from elementary schools in the area and was about 250-strong at the time of the record. A cynic would say 250 sales were assured, at least, but it went on to sell a million, being awarded a Gold Disc in 1989! It stayed in the catalogue and was converted into microgroove formats, then digital, kept afloat, very likely, by its frequent outings on middle-brow radio request shows. More about the recording here. It is said few of the families could afford copies of the photograph, so much for cynicism!

Which leaves us with a mystery-Jenkins. A choral arrangement of the song was made by Cyril Jenkins, b 1885 and published by Curwen's in or around 1955, a little late for the Philips disc, though he seems to be the intended Jenkins on a version by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. The Children's Choir record does not credit an arranger. But, according to Roger Savage in his 2014 book Masques, Mayings and Music-dramas, the anachronistic arrangement for choir and symphony orchestra was made by the conductor Sir Hamilton Harty.

It seems likely that the banter of Howerd and Rutherford was their own confection. :cooll:

*edit 03.58 pm I wondered what a Bispella bitch looked like and found this longer version of the Mainundus fable. Bispella was the name of the deceased doggie!
 
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Tapeloop

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Tamworth band Birdland did a cover of it in the early 90's
I saw Birdland at a club here in Reading in about 1990. They were definitely very into that whole 1970s NYC Patti Smith & Television scene, except they were nowhere near as good. They played for less than 15 minutes, smashed up some bottles of beer, and allegedly said made some very dubious comments to the bouncers. Top night out...

Going back to Kate Bush, I read somewhere that all the Rolf Harris parts have been airbrushed out on the latest remasters of her work. Probably for the best.
 

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I saw Birdland at a club here in Reading in about 1990. They were definitely very into that whole 1970s NYC Patti Smith & Television scene, except they were nowhere near as good. They played for less than 15 minutes, smashed up some bottles of beer, and allegedly said made some very dubious comments to the bouncers. Top night out...

Going back to Kate Bush, I read somewhere that all the Rolf Harris parts have been airbrushed out on the latest remasters of her work. Probably for the best.
I saw Birdland at a club here in Reading in about 1990. They were definitely very into that whole 1970s NYC Patti Smith & Television scene, except they were nowhere near as good. They played for less than 15 minutes, smashed up some bottles of beer, and allegedly said made some very dubious comments to the bouncers. Top night out...

Going back to Kate Bush, I read somewhere that all the Rolf Harris parts have been airbrushed out on the latest remasters of her work. Probably for the best.
They were tossers when I met them as well.
 

INT21

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I read 'Turn of the screw' (re #332 above), and was mildly disappointed in it.
I can see that there is something going on between her and Miles. But it seems more sinister than sexual. And Miles, who is suppose dto be ten years old, is presented using language that is far in advance of his years.
 

maximus otter

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Going back to Kate Bush, I read somewhere that all the Rolf Harris parts have been airbrushed out on the latest remasters of her work. Probably for the best.
lf we went through all the museums, art galleries, record- and book shops in the world, removing everything produced by or involving someone who had committed an offence, there wouldn’t be much left.

Just to quote one post from the “Wacko Jacko” thread here on FTMB, there is strong evidence that numerous major rock stars have had sexual intercourse with underage girls. Would you be pleased to see everything that they’d been involved in “airbrushed out”?

maximus otter
 

Comfortably Numb

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Maybe, 'Kissin' Cousins', by Elvis Presley, 1964...

"Well I've got a gal, she's as cute as she can be / She's a distant cousin but she's not too distant with me".
 

Tapeloop

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Just to quote one post from the “Wacko Jacko” thread here on FTMB, there is strong evidence that numerous major rock stars have had sexual intercourse with underage girls. Would you be pleased to see everything that they’d been involved in “airbrushed out”?
Well, it's a murky old area for sure. As a lover of Surrealism, I find the work of Hans Bellmer rather disturbing, but also I wouldn't want to censor it. As you rightly point out, finding a rock star without a shady past is a tricky thing. There was a good article yesterday on the music website The Quietus about Michael Jackson's legacy.

https://thequietus.com/articles/26898-michael-jackson-off-the-wall-review-anniversary

I guess for Kate Bush that having a recently convicted sex offender onboard was a step too far. This is an artist who praised Theresa May though, and then had to issue a clarification. Must have been a decision she did't come to lightly. I wonder if she also took off his didgeridoo on The Dreaming too?

It is interesting to look at things like YouTube comments for bands like Pulp or Nick Cave where their songs express things or tell stories which aren't "nice" in the traditional sense. It's almost like today's artists have to be squeaky clean.

So yes, I'm no fan of airbrushing out history but also I might still sell my 7" of Sun Arise.
 

JamesWhitehead

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NSFW. The Castration of the Strawberry Roan is a cowboy song but it isn't Roy Rogers exactly!

The Castration of the Strawberry Roan.

Film buffs and country music specialists will be aware of the Sons of the Pioneers, a male singing group who helped pad out the westerns of Gene Autrey and Roy Rogers. They were hugely popular in the days when radio was king, their style folksy but mainstream enough for them to be a household name.

There was another side of their art which did not have such wide circulation and this record has attained a certain notoriety:

"In 1943, while they were in New York, Dick Foran and the Pioneers (the Dr. Pepper crew) were asked to sing "The Strawberry Roan" for the Dr. Pepper annual stockholders and board of directors' meeting. Someone found the alternate words Curley had written, "Castration of the Strawberry Roan" and the guys recorded it privately as a joke. Dick Foran sings the solo with the Pioneers backup."

This is an underground record, usually found with a white label. There are several versions on Youtube, one uploaded today but I have linked to an earlier upload with the full set of words on the page. It is rude, graphic and not for the squeamish. :dhorse:
 

escargot

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NSFW. The Castration of the Strawberry Roan is a cowboy song but it isn't Roy Rogers exactly!

The Castration of the Strawberry Roan.

Film buffs and country music specialists will be aware of the Sons of the Pioneers, a male singing group who helped pad out the westerns of Gene Autrey and Roy Rogers. They were hugely popular in the days when radio was king, their style folksy but mainstream enough for them to be a household name.

There was another side of their art which did not have such wide circulation and this record has attained a certain notoriety:

"In 1943, while they were in New York, Dick Foran and the Pioneers (the Dr. Pepper crew) were asked to sing "The Strawberry Roan" for the Dr. Pepper annual stockholders and board of directors' meeting. Someone found the alternate words Curley had written, "Castration of the Strawberry Roan" and the guys recorded it privately as a joke. Dick Foran sings the solo with the Pioneers backup."

This is an underground record, usually found with a white label. There are several versions on Youtube, one uploaded today but I have linked to an earlier upload with the full set of words on the page. It is rude, graphic and not for the squeamish. :dhorse:
Excellent, thank you!
 

Lord Lucan

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Walk in the Wild Side - Lou Reed. You've only got to read the lyrics to see why this wouldn't fly today.

Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side.

Candy came from out on the island,
In the backroom she was everybody's darling,
But she never lost her head
Even when she was giving head
She says, hey baby, take a walk on the wild side
Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls go,

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

Little Joe never once gave it away
Everybody had to pay and pay
A hustle here and a hustle there
New York City is the place where they said:
Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said hey Joe, take a walk on the wild side

Sugar Plum Fairy came and hit the streets
Lookin' for soul food and a place to eat
Went to the Apollo
You should have seen him go, go, go
They said, hey Sugar, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side, alright, huh

Jackie is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess she had to crash
Valium would have helped that bash
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls say

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
 

escargot

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Walk in the Wild Side - Lou Reed. You've only got to read the lyrics to see why this wouldn't fly today.

Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side.

Candy came from out on the island,
In the backroom she was everybody's darling,
But she never lost her head
Even when she was giving head
She says, hey baby, take a walk on the wild side
Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls go,

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

Little Joe never once gave it away
Everybody had to pay and pay
A hustle here and a hustle there
New York City is the place where they said:
Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said hey Joe, take a walk on the wild side

Sugar Plum Fairy came and hit the streets
Lookin' for soul food and a place to eat
Went to the Apollo
You should have seen him go, go, go
They said, hey Sugar, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side, alright, huh

Jackie is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess she had to crash
Valium would have helped that bash
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls say

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
It's about sex workers and transsexuals, what's not to like? BANG in fashion.

However, when the song was first popular it was played on TV with Arlene Phillips' dance troupe Hot Gossip performing to it, featuring at least one dancer in a 'sexy schoolgirl' costume. Like a St Trinian's sixth former.

Mary Whitehouse objected strongly to this on the grounds that the dance represented a sexualised child. She didn't kick off about men shaving their legs and plucking their eyebrows to look more like women while travelling across America to a life of prostitution because she probably had no idea what it all meant.

The BBC played it happily enough even with its references to 'giving head' which you'd think would be a big no-no, but again it probably slipped by because of ignorance.
 

Swifty

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It's about sex workers and transsexuals, what's not to like? BANG in fashion.

However, when the song was first popular it was played on TV with Arlene Phillips' dance troupe Hot Gossip performing to it, featuring at least one dancer in a 'sexy schoolgirl' costume. Like a St Trinian's sixth former.

Mary Whitehouse objected strongly to this on the grounds that the dance represented a sexualised child. She didn't kick off about men shaving their legs and plucking their eyebrows to look more like women while travelling across America to a life of prostitution because she probably had no idea what it all meant.

The BBC played it happily enough even with its references to 'giving head' which you'd think would be a big no-no, but again it probably slipped by because of ignorance.
.. and there was Lou's line and the coloured girls go .. that's something that's a contradiction these days .. describing someone with brown skin as 'coloured' has been wrong since the Rosa Parks days. Now people who haven't got brown coloured skin are asked to describe people who have got brown coloured skin as 'people of colour'? .. weird ..
 
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Walk in the Wild Side - Lou Reed. You've only got to read the lyrics to see why this wouldn't fly today.

Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,
Said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side.

Candy came from out on the island,
In the backroom she was everybody's darling,
But she never lost her head
Even when she was giving head
She says, hey baby, take a walk on the wild side
Said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls go,

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

Little Joe never once gave it away
Everybody had to pay and pay
A hustle here and a hustle there
New York City is the place where they said:
Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said hey Joe, take a walk on the wild side

Sugar Plum Fairy came and hit the streets
Lookin' for soul food and a place to eat
Went to the Apollo
You should have seen him go, go, go
They said, hey Sugar, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side, alright, huh

Jackie is just speeding away
Thought she was James Dean for a day
Then I guess she had to crash
Valium would have helped that bash
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side
I said, hey honey, take a walk on the wild side
And the colored girls say

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
TRAs tried to get it banned from the airwaves as being transphobic. It didn't work.

Nor would any attempt to describe it as being racist because of the the phrase coloured girls. It just scans better than girls of colour.#

Lou Reed lived with a Transwoman for years and was actively anti-racist. Only woke morons would try to attack this song and get it banned.
 

Frideswide

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Remember that this isn't a place to host any individual's views on gender politics.

Especially when they are inaccurate, as Mme Snail pointed out.

LISTEN TO THE SNAIL!

Anyone wants to talk about it? by PM please rather than further irritating on thread


Frides
 

JamesWhitehead

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this is being resurrected
I had no idea that whole transcriptions of these shows survived. When you think of all the stuff they wiped!

George Mitchell, who devised the concept, was known in our household as "Uncle Bram's Sergeant." I had vaguely imagined them in the trenches together but it must have been during WWII, when they served in the Royal Army Pay Corps at Finsbury Circus. It was a posting "which enabled him to organise choirs . . . and put on shows . . . " There is a lot to be said for the trenches!

The ultra-annoying lead singer with the Minstrels was a Welsh, ex-miner called Dai Francis. His horrible Al Jolson impersonation was unaccountably popular; he made solo albums, from which his big, blacked-up face leered out. Papa Lazarou is relatively benign.

I see the tv show had up to 16.5 million viewers in 1964! On the back of this, their LPs sold in tens of thousands. They appear never to have been weeded from charity slush-piles, where they seem unlikely to find a secondary market.

In the end, the shows were a sign of how lazily television could appropriate formats, and audiences, from variety, music-hall and the end-of-the-pier shows.

For end-of-the-pier shows now, we have to head for Cromer, I am reliably informed! :omr:
 
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Timble2

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I had no idea that whole transcriptions of these shows survived. When you think of all the stuff they wiped!

George Mitchell, who devised the concept, was known in our household as "Uncle Bram's Sergeant." I had vaguely imagined them in the trenches together but it must have been during WWII, when they served in with the Royal Army Pay Corps in Finsbury Circus. It was a posting "which enabled him to organise choirs . . . and put on shows . . . " There is a lot to be said for the trenches!

The ultra-annoying lead singer with the Minstrels was a Welsh, ex-miner called Dai Francis. His horrible Al Jolson impersonation was unaccountably popular; he made solo albums, from which his big, blacked-up face leered out. Papa Lazarou is relatively benign.

I see the tv show had up to 16.5 million viewers in 1964! On the back of this, their LPs sold in tens of thousands. They appear never to have been weeded from charity slush-piles, where they seem unlikely to find a second market.

In the end, the shows were a sign of how lazily television could appropriate formats, and audiences, from variety, music-hall and the end-of-the-pier shows.

For end-of-the-pier shows now, we have to head for Cromer, I am reliably informed! :omr:
I just remembered that I actually saw the touring stage show in the mid 1960s, in Liverpool, with my Mum and Dad. Totally unaware of the unfortunate implications of the show, at the time...
 
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escargot

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I just remembered that I actually saw the touring stage show in the mid 1960s, in Liverpool, with my Mum and Dad. Totally unaware of the unfortunate implications of the show, at the time...
The former Mr Snail was also treated to that show as a child. I bet he sat next to you.
 

INT21

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. Now people who haven't got brown coloured skin are asked to describe people who have got brown coloured skin as 'people of colour'? .. weird ..
Swifty,

Yes, it pi**es me off as well. Stupid expression.

INT21.
 

Swifty

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Swifty,

Yes, it pi**es me off as well. Stupid expression.

INT21.
My skin's a sort of peach/beige colour .. it's definitely not white and I've also never met anyone with completely black skin, just very dark brown .. people of colour ..
 
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