Population Growth: The Real Apocalypse

blessmycottonsocks

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I am glad I read that article, but I am inclined to think it is very wrong about the effects of the variables it discusses. For example, female education does provide a brake on population growth to some degree, but what about women who are just naturally stupid and fecund and won't keep their legs crossed? We've all met them, and they keep chugging out babies, and their kids grow up and the girls get pregnant in highschool... hakuna matata. All we are going to do is stop smart people breeding. Don't get me started about religion on this subject either. There are LOADS of avenues for criticism of this idea; I have not yet begun to argue.
Exactly.
Pretty well all of the problems facing us today - pollution, climate change, regular flooding, housing shortage, gridlocked roads, a health service creaking at the seams, antibiotic resistance, dwindling natural resources, habitat loss, extinction of entire species and even antisocial behaviour can be attributed to far too many humans crammed into too small a space.
 

EnolaGaia

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But what if the received wisdom about population growth is wrong?

That’s the conclusion Canadian journalist John Ibbitson and political scientist Darrell Bricker come to in their newest book, Empty Planet, due out February 5th. After painstakingly breaking down the numbers for themselves, the pair arrived at a drastically different prediction for the future of the human species. “In roughly three decades, the global population will begin to decline,” they write. “Once that decline begins, it will never end.” ...
I wonder which faction / contingent will react first, and in which direction, based on the memetic foci one can ascribe to this new book ...

Positive: Yay! Women's worldwide progress will save the entire human race as well as Mother Earth herself!

Negative: WTF?!? How dare you foist all responsibility for averting apocalypse onto disadvantaged and oppressed women?!

Cynical: It was written by two men - who gives a flying f**k what they think? TL/DR ...
 

Min Bannister

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Why should a story about a possible reduction in the human population turn into a series of creepy rants against Wimmin? :thought:They are not getting pregnant entirely by themselves you know. If they were, that would be of definite interest to this forum.
 

Mythopoeika

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Why should a story about a possible reduction in the human population turn into a series of creepy rants against Wimmin? :thought:They are not getting pregnant entirely by themselves you know. If they were, that would be of definite interest to this forum.
It's because, in 3rd world countries in particular, women don't have equality. Educate them about their life choices and they may not have so many babies. There would be some form of rebellion against being baby making machines. At least, that's the idea.
 

INT21

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..But what if the received wisdom about population growth is wrong?..

It isn't.
 

Min Bannister

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It's because, in 3rd world countries in particular, women don't have equality. Educate them about their life choices and they may not have so many babies. There would be some form of rebellion against being baby making machines. At least, that's the idea.
And what do women in third world countries have to do with constant asexual reproduction as Alcopwn suggests or with ARGH FEMINAZIS as Enola Gaia suggests? o_O
 

INT21

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Min is making the point that men are as much involved the production of children as the women are. But the men in many high population countries have all the power. The women could not refuse to have sex even if they wished. An the men in these places are only interested in a shag, to put it directly. They can have no responsible outlook or they would think things like 'how the hell am I going to feed all these'.

BUT, God will provide; keep up the breeding.

Back in the past many of these people would be killed in wars. The teenagers upward used as cannon fodder while the younger ones die as victims to the war or through disease and starvation.

This method of population control is becoming increasingly unpopular. So the numbers are not being regulated.

Until men learn to use condoms or keep their dicks in their pants nothing will change.

This applies to many first world countries as well as the third.

INT21
 

EnolaGaia

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And what do women in third world countries have to do with ... ARGH FEMINAZIS as Enola Gaia suggests? o_O
You're jumping to an unwarranted conclusion in suggesting I was specifically referring to women as the ones who'd be reacting - either generally or with particular regard to any 'feminazi' extremists.

Certainly, one would expect the initial shots to come from those most vociferous about women's issues.

However, none of the three positions I enumerated are, or should be taken as, the exclusive province of women. People of both genders with an activist bent (SJW's; pundits; followers of all relevant and irrelevant camps, etc.) will almost certainly be all over this book in the coming weeks and months.

I've consistently witnessed these exact three vectors in publicly espoused reactions on reproductive and gender issues, dating back to the sometimes riotous contraception debates in the 1960's. Some take an innovation, opinion, or proposal to be 'liberating' for women, some take it to be foisting responsibility onto women, and some simply blow it off based on face value appearances - e.g., who's associated with it.

In the currently charged climate surrounding such matters I have no doubt this book will be discussed - and most probably slammed - from the three distinct orientations I outlined.

These two Canadian academics have set themselves up for incoming fire from all three directions. They've no one to blame but themselves after distilling a topic of global scope into a matter for which resolution depends largely or wholly upon the female portion of the population.
 

INT21

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....Sperm counts are declining though, which might change it. ..

Possibly, but I doubt it. It only takes one sperm to make it all the way.

INT21.
 

INT21

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Mungoman,

Interesting statistics. Particularly if you look at the distribution of the higher ratios.

INT21.
 

AlchoPwn

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See the fine documentary, 'Idiocracy'.
Every time I go into university engineering departments these days I worry that we are already living in idiocracy. Millennials can't fix anything, and their understanding of out society's critical systems is terrifyingly spotty.
 

AlchoPwn

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Do we need to educate women or do we just need to give them crippling student debts?
Educating women means they will be less likely to breed. Dumping student debt on them improves that outcome by obliging them to work. I am going to crawl back into my barrel now, you keep blocking the sunlight.
 

eburacum

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The population of every continent will be in decline by 2100 - except for Africa. We have basically solved the problem of population everywhere else. Solving the problem of population growth in the continent of Africa will be the biggest challenge of the 21st century. But there is a trend in the West to abandon Africa to its fate, and to build barriers and walls to reduce our interaction with countries with continued growth.

That might work, from our point of view, but I doubt it. We can't bury our heads in the sand.

In any case, the influence of China in those countries will be growing. By 2200, nearly everyone in the world will be Chinese, Indian or African, and the influence of the West in the world will be minimal. Hopefully, by 2200 every country in the world will have passed the demographic transition and will have a declining population- but of course by that time our median age will be about 60.
pop.png
 

INT21

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Eburacum,

That chart is very depressing; though possibly accurate.

As for, metaphorically building a wall around Africa and leaving them to it, many, if not most of the people coming into Europe via the various back doors are Africans. If we can't stop them now, what chance in the future ?
 

brownmane

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This may have already been mentioned, but in past (before industrial revolution) families were large due to reality of high infant mortality and families needing hands to work to maintain survival.

Third world countries are still scrabbling to survive and have few resources for much else.
 

INT21

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Brownmane,

There was an interesting documentary a while back in which the commentator followed a woman in Africa who was an onion farmer. She was having trouble selling her onions because the country was importing them from China and selling them for less than she could. Also the same problem for chicken portions.

If the African states are used in this way, simply as a market place for other countries surplus goods, or as a means of barter for oil etc, then the local population will not be able to prosper.
 

Mythopoeika

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Brownmane,

There was an interesting documentary a while back in which the commentator followed a woman in Africa who was an onion farmer. She was having trouble selling her onions because the country was importing them from China and selling them for less than she could. Also the same problem for chicken portions.

If the African states are used in this way, simply as a market place for other countries surplus goods, or as a means of barter for oil etc, then the local population will not be able to prosper.
The Chinese have bought up vast swathes of some African countries and are employing locals to grow crops at a really cheap price. Those crops are sent to China and the locals can't buy them (unless they are prepared to pay more money).
 

brownmane

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The Chinese have bought up vast swathes of some African countries and are employing locals to grow crops at a really cheap price. Those crops are sent to China and the locals can't buy them (unless they are prepared to pay more money).
Unfortunately this seems to be the way of the world in general.
 

brownmane

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Brownmane,

There was an interesting documentary a while back in which the commentator followed a woman in Africa who was an onion farmer. She was having trouble selling her onions because the country was importing them from China and selling them for less than she could. Also the same problem for chicken portions.

If the African states are used in this way, simply as a market place for other countries surplus goods, or as a means of barter for oil etc, then the local population will not be able to prosper.
Do you remember the name of the documentary? I saw one about Walmart working the same way, and one farmer who gave an example that if it cost him $1.00 to produce a cabbage, Walmart would only give him $0.50 per, leaving him with the problem of leaving the produce to rot or selling it for less than it cost to produce. This farmer was from Britain.
 

INT21

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Sorry, can't help. It was a while ago and was only a short docu' that I happened to accidentally see; I tend to record the longer ones.
There are many similar cases. The cost of producing dairy being more than the farmers are paid.

It's all a mess.
 

Mythopoeika

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Do you remember the name of the documentary? I saw one about Walmart working the same way, and one farmer who gave an example that if it cost him $1.00 to produce a cabbage, Walmart would only give him $0.50 per, leaving him with the problem of leaving the produce to rot or selling it for less than it cost to produce. This farmer was from Britain.
Tesco does similar things here in the UK. That's got to change at some point.
 

Mungoman

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Unfortunately this seems to be the way of the world in general.

It is happening in Australia too Brownmane.

Chinese ownership of Australian land - be it private or directly connected to the Government of the PRC, totals an area of 91,000 square kilometres - approximately one and a half Tasmania's...

And, the Australian Government have leased every major shipping Port to China for 99 years.

It seems that Australia IS for sale.
 
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