Proactive Human Population Reduction

Mythopoeika

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It will never happen because it contradicts basic human nature. What we have to do is start working together to solve the problem of interstellar travel so we have new goals. This is not a fantasy, it is a long thought out position. If we remain confined to this planet we will die as a race. And since it is quite possible we are the only sentient beings for many light years that would be something of a shame. .
Yes.
 

kamalktk

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And I can hit a 3 inch spot at 50 yards with an arrow 3 times out of four. if we are in a wall pi**ing contest. The gun people wouldn't hear it coming and I can make arrows when they run out of shells.
Thus explaining the prevalence of arrows and bowmen among modern militaries, or even Somali pirates...

It's not a pi**sing contest. I don't have a gun, I've never even used one. But the idea that arrow or spear wielders will prevail against guns fails the "has happened at any real scale anywhere" test. Worldwide, the arrow and spear people have lost to guns.
 

James_H

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Interesting to look back and see how easily we all swallowed an infowars article 13 years ago.
 

Cochise

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Thus explaining the prevalence of arrows and bowmen among modern militaries, or even Somali pirates...

It's not a pi**sing contest. I don't have a gun, I've never even used one. But the idea that arrow or spear wielders will prevail against guns fails the "has happened at any real scale anywhere" test. Worldwide, the arrow and spear people have lost to guns.
True. I'm not sure how easy it is to make your own ammo though. I was assuming a dystopian situation where ready-made stuff is difficult to come by.

I wonder if anyone thought of using longbowmen in trench warfare? I know it sounds a bit barmy, but a) silent and b) can hit people who haven't stuck their head over the parapet. I don't know how close the trenches typically were, but if they were say 150 yards or less it would work. Wouldn't wipe the enemy out but would be very demoralising to know you can still be killed or wounded and the trench can't help you. A lot cheaper than an artillery barrage as well.
 

Newt

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Can't believe no one has yet menitioned the Georgia Guidestones, and their first 'rule'.

  1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
 

Cochise

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Didn't they try this at Mons?
From Wkipedia.

"Mons gained a myth, a miraculous tale that the Angels of Mons—angelic warriors sometimes described as phantom longbowmen from Agincourt—had saved the British Army by halting the German troops.[67]"

A longbowman needs quite a lot of training, so wouldn't have been an instant answer. If used, I'd say they would best be used as a morale sapping thing like sniper fire. Being silent the enemy need know nothing about it until the first arrows hit. You wouldn't aim at individual soldiers, you'd send a volley of a hundred or more arrow into the trench.
 

PeteS

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From Wkipedia.

"Mons gained a myth, a miraculous tale that the Angels of Mons—angelic warriors sometimes described as phantom longbowmen from Agincourt—had saved the British Army by halting the German troops.[67]"

A longbowman needs quite a lot of training, so wouldn't have been an instant answer. If used, I'd say they would best be used as a morale sapping thing like sniper fire. Being silent the enemy need know nothing about it until the first arrows hit. You wouldn't aim at individual soldiers, you'd send a volley of a hundred or more arrow into the trench.
It was interesting to hear about the Mons angels recently on the tellybox. According to some, the story was a fictional one written by an identified journalist,( who insisted it was fiction) as per the Wiki article but the story and similar ones took on lives of their own. Fascinating though all the same.
 

James_H

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It's not a pi**sing contest. I don't have a gun, I've never even used one. But the idea that arrow or spear wielders will prevail against guns fails the "has happened at any real scale anywhere" test. Worldwide, the arrow and spear people have lost to guns.
They did pretty well in North Vietnam against the US. Sure, they had guns and bombs, but a surprising amount of the weaponry was homemade and pretty mediaeval.
 

EnolaGaia

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... I wonder if anyone thought of using longbowmen in trench warfare? I know it sounds a bit barmy, but a) silent and b) can hit people who haven't stuck their head over the parapet. I don't know how close the trenches typically were, but if they were say 150 yards or less it would work. Wouldn't wipe the enemy out but would be very demoralising to know you can still be killed or wounded and the trench can't help you. A lot cheaper than an artillery barrage as well.
There are some factors that reduce the possible effectiveness of archery in trench warfare.

Trenches are typically narrow extended ditches and / or semi-enclosed hiding places. Because the enemy is clustered within such small spaces, accuracy is critical. At a range of (e.g.) 100 to 150 yards how many arrows from a massive volley will come down precisely within the target trenches / pits?

One might also argue that because longbows are held vertically it would be difficult to hide a mass of longbowmen preparing to shoot from an opposing trench.

An arrow only hurts what it hits. An explosive shell hurts anyone / everyone within a certain blast radius. Shells are therefore more likely to harm the most adversaries when lobbed into their hidden positions. On a related note - you can't collapse trenches or dugout bunkers with arrows.
 
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It was interesting to hear about the Mons angels recently on the tellybox. According to some, the story was a fictional one written by an identified journalist,( who insisted it was fiction) as per the Wiki article but the story and similar ones took on lives of their own. Fascinating though all the same.
Welsh mystic and author of supernatural stories, Arthur Machen.

He gets mentioned quite a lot in our various threads on literature.
 

maximus otter

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They did pretty well in North Vietnam against the US. Sure, they had guns and bombs, but a surprising amount of the weaponry was homemade and pretty mediaeval.
l have read dozens of books about the Vietnam war, and l don’t recollect a single incident where a US soldier was injured by an arrow or spear.

maximus otter
 

Yithian

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l have read dozens of books about the Vietnam war, and l don’t recollect a single incident where a US soldier was injured by an arrow or spear.

maximus otter
At the risk of pedantry, punji-stick and bamboo-whip traps both featured bamboo spears as elements.
 

Cochise

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There are some factors that reduce the possible effectiveness of archery in trench warfare.

Trenches are typically narrow extended ditches and / or semi-enclosed hiding places. Because the enemy is clustered within such small spaces, accuracy is critical. At a range of (e.g.) 100 to 150 yards how many arrows from a massive volley will come down precisely within the target trenches / pits?

One might also argue that because longbows are held vertically it would be difficult to hide a mass of longbowmen preparing to shoot from an opposing trench.

An arrow only hurts what it hits. An explosive shell hurts anyone / everyone within a certain blast radius. Shells are therefore more likely to harm the most adversaries when lobbed into their hidden positions. On a related note - you can't collapse trenches or dugout bunkers with arrows.
Most of what you say is true. But the strength of the longbowman was that they were used as artillery, not at all like Robin Hood. You can calibrate a longbow such that you can lay down cover within maybe a 6ftx6ft area at 100 yards.

This is exactly how they were used in the Hundred Years War. If you are using them in this way no need to appear above the top of the trench - just dig say 3 yards further back so there is room to clear the front rampart of the trench. For maximum range at which you could be approximately accurate you would be shooting up at something like 35 degrees. You'd also need a fairly still day.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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The first priority should be to achieve a sustainable level of population. The sharp increase, particularly in England, since around the year 2000, has caused a great many problems.
 
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Ogdred Weary

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The first priority should be to achieve a sustainable level of population. The sharp increase, particularly in England, since around the year 2000, has caused a great many problems.
I'd say "sustainable" population levels where pre-industrial revolution, possibly pre-agricultural revolution. Personally I'd welcome a cull on that scale, if you have any bright ideas let me know and I'll muck in.
 
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Floyd1

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I'd say "sustainable" population levels where pre-industrial revolution, possibly pre-agricultural revolution. Personally I'd welcome a cull on that scale, if you have any bright ideas let me know and I'll muck in.
I have some ideas on how to do it.
 

Ogdred Weary

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Financial incentives for couples to have no more than 2 children and better controlled immigration ought to do the trick.
Um, the pre-industrial population of Earth is estimated to be somewhere around 1bn, the pre-agricultural would be well below that. There are currently somewhere between 7.7 and 7.8bn people extant. Yo math be crazy.
 

Ogdred Weary

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We ... need fewer old people.

Actually fewer people and no old people ideally.
 
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Frasier Buddolph

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We ... need fewer old people.

Actually fewer people and no old people ideally.
Just a few questions, please, Ogdred.

1. What is your age?
2. At what age do people become "old"?
3. At what age do you plan to snuff it, just to set the right example, mind?
4. What method of suicide do you recommend?
5. How are the "old" to be incentivised to eliminate themselves from the gene pool?
6 If incentives, fail, how is the cull to be carried out?

Please tell us more, do.
 
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Ogdred Weary

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Just a few questions, please, Ogdred.

1. What is your age?
2. At what age do people become "old"?
3. At what age do you plan to snuff it, just to set the right example, mind?
4. What method of suicide do you recommend?
5. How are the "old" to be incentivised to eliminate themselves from the gene pool?
6 If incentives, fail, how is the cull to be carried out?

Please tell us more, do.
1. Early 40s.
2. 60
3. Before 60, possibly before 50.
4. Have been researching that, massive overdose at the moment, though I'm open to suggestions.
5. Free access to a heavy sedative and a poison, available to anyone 18 or above.
6. Anyway you like,most of them won't be able to put up much of a fight.

Is this going to be implemented? Some of it to a limited extent in the next few decades. People are nice-ish when the going is good, when facing resource constraint they soon change. We live in interesting times.
 
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