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Prof. Brian Cox On Ghosts

eburacum said:
I think Cox may have fallen prey to something we might call the 'Ghostbusters Fallacy'. In that (comedy) fantasy movie, ghosts could be captured by using advanced quantum physics and nuclear-powered containment facilities. There is no reason to suspect that ghosts have any effect on the quantum realm, or that they can be affected by physical technology in any way.

If (as I suspect) ghosts are an entirely psychological phenomenon, we may be able to detect them using some kind of brain/computer interface, but they may be too subtle for that. In any case the LHC would be no use at that level of investigation.
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You make a good point, how much research has Brian Cox put into studying hauntings, amnaifestations, poltergeists etc? My guess would be very little, he is simply drawing on snippets he has watched, read or heard about over time.

One of my favourite cases is from the UK and involves two Police officers on patrol. They pick up on the radio that a stolen car is being pursued and race off in an attempt to get ahead of it and intercept it. They arrive only to see the stolen car smash head on into a tree* with other police cars on its tail. They then both witness a well known local petty criminal emerge from the wreck and run from the scene. They jump out of their car and shout to the other Police officers that he is fleeing on foot but are met with puzzlement as that very petty criminal is actually visibly deceased in the wreckage of the car (Source: 'Credible Witness' by Andy Gilbert).

So what was it they actually saw and how could that be measured by Mr Cox's Large Hardon [sic] Collider...? Both officers were clear about what they saw and indeed one of them had a difficult time accepting it. It would be easy to dismiss their experience as police canteen gossip, however both revealed their identities to Andy Gilbert and did not seek either fame, fortune or both from their experience.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
You make a good point, how much research has Brian Cox put into studying hauntings, amnaifestations, poltergeists etc? My guess would be very little, he is simply drawing on snippets he has watched, read or heard about over time.

One of my favourite cases is from the UK and involves two Police officers on patrol. They pick up on the radio that a stolen car is being pursued and race off in an attempt to get ahead of it and intercept it. They arrive only to see the stolen car smash head on into a tree* with other police cars on its tail. They then both witness a well known local petty criminal emerge from the wreck and run from the scene. They jump out of their car and shout to the other Police officers that he is fleeing on foot but are met with puzzlement as that very petty criminal is actually visibly deceased in the wreckage of the car (Source: 'Credible Witness' by Andy Gilbert).

So what was it they actually saw and how could that be measured by Mr Cox's Large Hardon [sic] Collider...? Both officers were clear about what they saw and indeed one of them had a difficult time accepting it. It would be easy to dismiss their experience as police canteen gossip, however both revealed their identities to Andy Gilbert and did not seek either fame, fortune or both from their experience.
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Those 2 Andy Gilbert books are my favourite ever on Ghost reports.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
You make a good point, how much research has Brian Cox put into studying hauntings, manifestations, poltergeists etc? My guess would be very little, he is simply drawing on snippets he has watched, read or heard about over time.
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...unless, the full context is that someone claimed ghosts were operating as a function the type of fields and particles the LHC is there to study. I don't know that, but if it was the case that would make his observation valid to some degree.
 
Coal said:
...unless, the full context is that someone claimed ghosts were operating as a function the type of fields and particles the LHC is there to study. I don't know that, but if it was the case that would make his observation valid to some degree.
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That's a bit like saying that, because chlorophyll processes light into usable energy, you can use an optical microscope to find trees.
 
Since I’m across the pond my only exposure to BC is YouTube.
But it seems to me he suffers from the same condition as many science popularizers who become celebrities.
They can get a bit too far up there own ass.
A condition not restricted to science types, but an affliction common to celebrities in general.
 
Given that there seems to be no stated definition, or even a general agreed consensus on what ghosts are, I think Prof Cox should be allowed to express his opinion on his own podcast (Feb 2017). If (conditional) ghosts can walk through walls, vanish into thin air etc then it is not unreasonable to assume they are made of energy rather than solid particles. If ghosts are pure energy then that energy will dissipate over time and the ghosts would disappear - unless that energy can be self-renewed. Prof Cox (a physicist) does not know what type of energy that would be. An unknown energy not fitting into the Standard Model would have been found by the LHC by now - ergo ghosts don't exist because "there just isn't any room for them" (Guardian subtitle). So a logical conclusion to a supposition that started with a conditional. I don't think you can hang a man for that, no matter how irritating you personally find him.
I for one have toyed with the idea that cold-spots in reputedly haunted buildings could be a result of energy (heat) being drawn out of the atmosphere to enable a manifestation. I've no proof, just an opinion.
If (conditional) ghosts are not materialistic but psychological then they wouldn't be detected by the LHC, but no-one as far as I know is using the LHC to determine if they are physical or mental manifestations.

For that you need a Gloriette 80, a crucifix, a lighted candle and a map of Cornwall.

 
Coal said:
...unless, the full context is that someone claimed ghosts were operating as a function the type of fields and particles the LHC is there to study. I don't know that, but if it was the case that would make his observation valid to some degree.
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But also, operating as a function... in the place where the LHC is making the observations. You can use binoculars to observe and identify a distant ship, but only if you are within sight of the water. Most popular conceptions of ghosts closely link them to a place relevant to the life or death of the individual. The LHC is some distance underground.

If there were a credible hypothesis that involved ghosts being detectable by a hadron collider, they would then have to find a way of building a hadron collider at some medieval castle, or stately home, or rectory. The planning application alone would be the stuff of nightmares.
 
The quest for a consistent theory of ghosts:

"The idea of ghosts and hauntings has been a part of human culture for centuries, and reports of ghos... Read more at https://www.higgypop.com/news/the-quest-for-a-consistent-theory-of-ghosts/

Not a bad read from Steve but it lacks references to actual reported ghost sightings and poltergeists to illustrate the points being made
 
MorningAngel said:
But we could well not have them fully grasped anyway. What about nothing goes faster than the speed of light idea (The one Cox thing I watched at Christmas with Noel Fielding on a bicycle as Einstein -liked it 'cos they took the pee) , I believe CERN had something that didn't play along with that.

View attachment 4117
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Ah now I know this one and have posted about it before. ;)

Here's the Wiki page on it -
Faster-than-light neutrino anomaly

In 2011, the OPERA experiment mistakenly observed neutrinos appearing to travel faster than light. Even before the source of the error was discovered, the result was considered anomalous because speeds higher than that of light in vacuum are generally thought to violate special relativity, a cornerstone of the modern understanding of physics for over a century.[1][2]

OPERA scientists announced the results of the experiment in September 2011 with the stated intent of promoting further inquiry and debate.
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It was all down to a faulty cable connection. :rolleyes:

Escet, our own Snailet of Physics, was doing his postdoc at CERN when this incident occurred. It fell to him to communicate the experiment's findings to the collaborating institutions and through them, to the world.

So he had to compose an email that was technically explicit but easily understandable to a non-English reader, in a tactful enough style to prevent the recipients having major panic or hyperventilation attacks. Great fun.

(Escet was chosen for various jobs like this at CERN because of his engaging manner. For example, he'd be asked to ring the engineers to order them to start the Beam.
In the past the engineers, who were French, had objected to the peremptory manner in which certain others physicists had addressed them.

Escet would ring them and say plummily (think Terry-Thomas) 'Oh hellooo, is that the Beam Engineers' Office? How lovely to speak to you. I hope you are well.
What very nice weather we're having! Yes, and here we all are, indoors, WHAT a shame!
While you're here, I was wondering if you'd like to start the beam for us, please? Whenever you're ready, we're all set up here!
You would? Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you SO much. That's very kind. Bye, see you later!'

His colleagues would be listening on Speaker, stifling their giggles and nearly peeing themselves.

Got the job done though. :nods: )
 
escargot said:
Escet would ring them and say plummily (think Terry-Thomas) 'Oh hellooo, is that the Beam Engineers' Office? How lovely to speak to you. I hope you are well.
What very nice weather we're having! Yes, and here we all are, indoors, WHAT a shame!
While you're here, I was wondering if you'd like to start the beam for us, please? Whenever you're ready, we're all set up here!
You would? Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you SO much. That's very kind. Bye, see you later!'
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Ahem, I'm not sure I appreciate the humour. That's exactly how we talk in west Surrey all the time.
 
Paul_Exeter said:
You make a good point, how much research has Brian Cox put into studying hauntings, amnaifestations, poltergeists etc? My guess would be very little, he is simply drawing on snippets he has watched, read or heard about over time.

One of my favourite cases is from the UK and involves two Police officers on patrol. They pick up on the radio that a stolen car is being pursued and race off in an attempt to get ahead of it and intercept it. They arrive only to see the stolen car smash head on into a tree* with other police cars on its tail. They then both witness a well known local petty criminal emerge from the wreck and run from the scene. They jump out of their car and shout to the other Police officers that he is fleeing on foot but are met with puzzlement as that very petty criminal is actually visibly deceased in the wreckage of the car (Source: 'Credible Witness' by Andy Gilbert).

So what was it they actually saw and how could that be measured by Mr Cox's Large Hardon [sic] Collider...? Both officers were clear about what they saw and indeed one of them had a difficult time accepting it. It would be easy to dismiss their experience as police canteen gossip, however both revealed their identities to Andy Gilbert and did not seek either fame, fortune or both from their experience.
Click to expand...
I am going to read that book now, thanks for the reference

But the case quoted raises loads of questions about the whole mechanics of survival after death
 
Paul_Exeter said:
One of my favourite cases is from the UK and involves two Police officers on patrol. They pick up on the radio that a stolen car is being pursued and race off in an attempt to get ahead of it and intercept it. They arrive only to see the stolen car smash head on into a tree* with other police cars on its tail. They then both witness a well known local petty criminal emerge from the wreck and run from the scene. They jump out of their car and shout to the other Police officers that he is fleeing on foot but are met with puzzlement as that very petty criminal is actually visibly deceased in the wreckage of the car
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This sounds so much like a scene from the fillum Ghost. :)

Not to cast doubt on the officers' account, far from it.
A folk belief about hauntings is that if a person dies unexpectedly, their ghost or spirit or whatever might try to carry on whatever they'd been doing beforehand.

So the spirit of a car thief killed in a sudden crash might certainly expect to jump out of the wreck and do one.

Wonder where he'd go after that? Will he spend Eternity running fearfully through the streets of the Midlands?
Whoever's car he'd totalled might be happy with that.
 
Robbrent said:
I am going to read that book now, thanks for the reference

But the case quoted raises loads of questions about the whole mechanics of survival after death
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That's a great book. Did you read it?

I have it on t'Kindle to read as a treat in quiet times at work. :bthumbup:
It starts strongly -
The schoolboy who runs STRAIGHT THROUGH a patrolling policeman. :omg:
Which rather puzzled officer then discovers that the body of a boy possibly resembling the ghost was found nearby.
 
escargot said:
That's a great book. Did you read it?

I have it on t'Kindle to read as a treat in quiet times at work. :bthumbup:
It starts strongly -
The schoolboy who runs STRAIGHT THROUGH a patrolling policeman. :omg:
Which rather puzzled officer then discovers that the body of a boy possibly resembling the ghost was found nearby.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was entertaining, a short read very light (as these books tend to be) on serious research, some of the tales do read like urban legends, but it does what it says on the tin, but a nice Fortean Filler when your head hurts from reading serious research
 
Robbrent said:
Yes, it was entertaining, a short read very light (as these books tend to be) on serious research, some of the tales do read like urban legends, but it does what it says on the tin, but a nice Fortean Filler when your head hurts from reading serious research
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Fortean anecdotes are among my favourite reads. :)

I also love hearing about strangers' weird experiences and am skilled at beating them out of unsuspecting acquaintances. Said stories are then posted on'ere. :nods:

Lots of people might have just the one episode to share and want to be careful about how they share it for her of being thought odd or mad.
The police stories ring true for this reason.
 
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