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Proxy Warfare Using Robots; Drones; Etc.

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
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Anyone else remember reading this in the Beano. :p

Who would have thought, that one day, we would seriously be talking about remote-controlled, miniature armies... (or suchlike!)

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Robot dog with machine gun hints of a dystopian future

Much like their flesh-made cousins, robot dogs do not lack attention on the internet. Many have seen the footage of Spot, a high-tech quadruped developed by the US-based company Boston Dynamics, flaunting its dance moves.

However, the latest addition to the robot dog content stream looks like something out of a science fiction movie. Twitter user Sean Chiplock shared a video of someone in Russia firing a gun from a quadruped robot.


Even though the post’s author discusses robots Boston Dynamics make, the one seen in the video is not made by the American company. As Sean Gallagher, a Senior Threat Researcher at Sophos points out, the robot dog is of Chinese origin.

The design of the robot looks a lot like Go1 robot dog Unitree Robotics makes. For example, the back side of the device in the video exhibits a distinct pattern on a plastic covering between its hind legs. A similar design is visible on devices in Unitree’s promotional material.

The Hangzhou-based company is selling the Go1 model of the robot for $2,700 on its website, a fraction of over $75k that American-made Spot would cost its owner.

While the robot doesn’t seem to handle recoil very well with the gun on ‘burst fire’ mode, switching to a ‘semi-automatic’ setting allows the robot to hit targets without moving around too much.

The robot in the video has patches on its surfaces with insignia associated with the Russian military: a Russian flag on one side and what seems to be a Wolf, which Russian special forces use.

The original video was posted on Youtube by Moscow-resident Alexander Atamanov.

https://cybernews.com/news/robot-dog-with-machine-gun-hints-of-a-dystopian-future/

The rifle appears to be an AK-74M; the vehicle a Russian BRDM-2.

maximus otter
 
This is scary:
Wall penetrating radar, robot dogs and scout drones coupled with active exoskeletons, the PLA is going full mech-warrior

Hmmm:

“…China ranks relatively low in terms of military spending as a percentage of GDP, at only 1.2% in 2021, half the world average of 2.4%, lower than countries like Germany (1.4%) or Canada (1.3%), and much lower than the United States (3.7%). Military spending as a percentage of government expenditure has also been steadily dropping, from 11.3% in 2000 to only 4.7% in 2020.“

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_China

l rather suspect that the reality is akin to the Russian army: Expensively-produced videos of a few bits of shiny Gucci kit; sullen, skinny conscripts in cardboard boots.

maximus otter
 
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The reason the US deployed nukes to Europe during the Cold War (I have been told), is that it was the only economically feasible way to counter the Soviet's massive advantage in armor and troops.

I wonder how the economics of battlefield drones play out? Could it be cheaper to deploy drones and cyber assets than live troops? Wonder what the war planners are thinking? Could relatively thinly-dispersed drones be used to control large areas of the battlefield, allowing smaller units of troops to be deployed where human capabilities are needed?

On the technological battlefield, have human troops become the weak link?
 
The reason the US deployed nukes to Europe during the Cold War (I have been told), is that it was the only economically feasible way to counter the Soviet's massive advantage in armor and troops.

I wonder how the economics of battlefield drones play out? Could it be cheaper to deploy drones and cyber assets than live troops? Wonder what the war planners are thinking? Could relatively thinly-dispersed drones be used to control large areas of the battlefield, allowing smaller units of troops to be deployed where human capabilities are needed?

On the technological battlefield, have human troops become the weak link?
I have a strong feeling that drones and robots will take over from humans.
The Chinese can certainly build them 'as cheap as chips'.
 
I have a strong feeling that drones and robots will take over from humans.
The Chinese can certainly build them 'as cheap as chips'.
Drones have target controllers operating them. A camera locks in on the target then maybe a laser guides the missile. They aren’t smart enough to select their own targets. Same with armed robots/dogs. Imagine the chaos of several hundred operators working robots on a mission. They’d also be expensive. Far cheaper to use soldiers on low pay & they can select the targets themselves.

Drones have proved their effectiveness but robots - not yet.
 
I wonder how the economics of battlefield drones play out? Could it be cheaper to deploy drones and cyber assets than live troops? Wonder what the war planners are thinking?

Generally speaking - yes, it's cheaper. Trained personnel are more expensive assets than most people realize. Mission-critical personnel (e.g., fighter pilots) are as valuable as many weapons systems. In terms of costs and efforts, dealing with wounded personnel represents a huge drag on battlefield operations. Transporting personnel involves logistical problems, risky exposure of transport vehicles / movements, and slower delivery times than can be obtained with drone (-ish) assets.

Anything that can be done to "deliver throw-weight" on the battlefield with reduced burdens on personnel assets is likely to be economically justified.

Could relatively thinly-dispersed drones be used to control large areas of the battlefield, allowing smaller units of troops to be deployed where human capabilities are needed?

Yes - provided the drone / remote asset operations are supported with intel / surveillance at or exceeding the level of situation awareness obtained by human observers alone.

On the technological battlefield, have human troops become the weak link?

To a certain extent - yes ... For example, it's been recognized for decades that the most troublesome and vulnerable component in strike and fighter aircraft has been the human(s) manning them. In a similar sense, it's been progressively realized that large groups of conventional ground troops are another case of troublesome and vulnerable assets.
 
Drones have target controllers operating them. A camera locks in on the target then maybe a laser guides the missile. They aren’t smart enough to select their own targets. Same with armed robots/dogs. Imagine the chaos of several hundred operators working robots on a mission. They’d also be expensive. Far cheaper to use soldiers on low pay & they can select the targets themselves.

Drones have proved their effectiveness but robots - not yet.
Autonomous drones and robots are not far off.
 
Autonomous drones and robots are not far off.
You reckon?.. How are these autonomous robots going to select their targets? What criteria are they going to use to come to the decision to fire at it? How do they identify an enemy?
 
You reckon?.. How are these autonomous robots going to select their targets? What criteria are they going to use to come to the decision to fire at it? How do they identify an enemy?

Well, maybe you equip your troops and assets with coded transponders, all monitored by a remote surveillance platform which maintains real-time battlefield status awareness. Either anything in the area that doesn't have a transponder is fair game (bad news for any civilians in the area, but there are such things as free-fire zones in combat already), or in an ambiguous situation, the drone calls fire control for permission to engage. I'm sure this question is getting a lot of attention from military planners.
 

Here Comes the Navy's Latest Robo-Ship, Testing Out a ‘Ghost Fleet’ Concept


Last week, the Navy christened a new“Ghost Fleet” ship, an unmanned surface vessel called Mariner. Designed to operate without a human crew, the ship will act as a test vehicle for the service’s manned/unmanned ship program, which envisions manned warships going into battle accompanied by one or more unmanned escorts. The program, known as Ghost Fleet Overlord, is probably the Navy’s best chance at affordably growing the fleet and fleet capabilities.

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The U.S. Navy is betting big on unmanned ships as a way to grow the fleet without busting its budget. The service, which currently has 300 warships, wants to grow to 523 by the year 2045, with 150 of those ships as “ghost ships.” Ghost ships are cheaper to build and, lacking human crews, are cheaper to operate. They can be sent on duller—or more dangerous—missions that don’t require human crews, and can operate autonomously on their own or alongside manned ships.

The first mission for unmanned ships will be as part of a manned/unmanned team of ships, for example as a floating magazine for manned warships. Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruisers are equipped with 122 MK 41 vertical launch missile silos, while Arleigh Burke-class destroyers are equipped with 90 or 96 silos. These silos accommodate a mix of anti-air, anti-ship, anti-submarine, and land attack cruise missiles. In a sustained engagement, ships might run out of certain types of missiles, and the Navy has no way of reloading the silos at sea. A manned warship might be assigned one or more unmanned ships, each bristling with additional missiles, bolstering its firepower in both attack and defense.

In the event that enemy missiles get through the defensive screen, the unmanned ship could even take position and distract enemy missiles away from the manned ship, sacrificing itself and saving lives.

As artificial intelligence advances, a ghost ship could be outfitted with hardware mission payloads that allow it to conduct missions autonomously. A MUSV could be equipped with an anti-submarine warfare module, including a towed sonar array, letting it patrol a patch of ocean for weeks on end. Once the sonar locates a possible enemy submarine, the ship would relay the sonar contact data to a human operator thousands of miles away. After determining there are no friendly submarines in the area, the human operator could then order the ghost ship to launch an MK 54 anti-submarine torpedo at the mystery contact.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...69-nhPglay7InFIofw0FgqCSxyGVNb-rELXX6myPdb3n6

maximus otter
 
Well, maybe you equip your troops and assets with coded transponders, all monitored by a remote surveillance platform which maintains real-time battlefield status awareness. Either anything in the area that doesn't have a transponder is fair game (bad news for any civilians in the area, but there are such things as free-fire zones in combat already), or in an ambiguous situation, the drone calls fire control for permission to engage. I'm sure this question is getting a lot of attention from military planners.
Yes that could be possible, but plenty of scope for things to go wrong there - transponder stops working, gets damaged etc, & as you’ve said, it won’t identify non-combatants/civilians. Transponders could be hacked/copied or possibly disabled. Agree with you that people are doubtless working on it though..
 
You reckon?.. How are these autonomous robots going to select their targets? What criteria are they going to use to come to the decision to fire at it? How do they identify an enemy?
They don't necessarily need to identify an enemy, they just go around shooting anything identified as human, while friendly forces stay out of the battle area.
There'd be no mercy with these killing machines. The prospect is quite chilling.
 
They don't necessarily need to identify an enemy, they just go around shooting anything identified as human, while friendly forces stay out of the battle area.
There'd be no mercy with these killing machines. The prospect is quite chilling.
That’s a bit Skynet. How would they identify a human? By shape, movement, heat signature? A combination of all of these? You could take preventative action against all of them to fool a robot using them as detectors.
 
Armed Robots On Pause With San Francisco Police—But Another Force Just Took Delivery

The issue of armed police robots is a contentious one. And while the U.S. is pulling back from the idea, Nigeria’s national police have just received their first shipment of armed drones from Turkey.

Turkish drone makers Asisgard recently announced the completion of their contract to supply the Nigerian police force with Songar armed drones. The number of drones involved and the value of the contract were not stated.

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The Songar is a small drone with eight rotor blades carrying an automatic rifle on a stabilized mount, which was first delivered to the Turkish military in 2019. The developers claim that the advanced aiming system’s recoil compensation and stabilization allow it to hit a target six inches across from two hundred meters.

The 5.56mm rifle can also carry an underbarrel grenade launcher, or a quad pack of grenade launchers, which can fire a full range of 40mm grenades. These include nonlethal options such as tear gas and smoke to disperse crowds.

Recent news in Nigeria shows just why police would want this type of weaponry, as they are fighting what looks like a literal war against large gangs of heavily armed criminals. In one series of attacks earlier this year, gangsters on motorcycles rode through villages, killing over 200 people. The gangs typically kidnap people for ransom and steal cattle. In 2021, gangs in Nigeria reportedly killed more than 2,600 people. Security forces said they killed 537 ‘armed bandits’ in one region alone 2021.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidh...o-policebut-another-force-just-took-delivery/

maximus otter
 
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