Public Health Efforts (Education; Sanitation; Etc.)

[Mythopoeika]

l see your point, but “Let’s put government in charge, that’ll make it more efficient!” is a sentence l don’t predict myself using frequently.

maximus otter

The top 9 most terrifying words in the English Language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help.

 

[Floyd1]

With great restraint, I am going to gently point out that some of the UK members in this thread are criticizing other countries (Canada and the US): the decisions the governments make, living conditions, costs, etc. This is an international forum, not a UK forum. Please be mindful of those of us who do not live in the UK nor share their worldview. It is very different to read criticism of one's country from a fellow citizen compared to an outsider. And I haven't once mentioned insularity.

I am now going to medically treat my unnatural restraint with cognac.

You can say that Britain is s**t if you like. I won't disagree with you.

 

[brownmane]

l see your point, but “Let’s put government in charge, that’ll make it more efficient!” is a sentence l don’t predict myself using frequently.

maximus otter

At least it is "ahem" accountable to the public. And I do believe that things that are a necessity for all of society should be public. And telecommunications, internet et al have now become necessities. Everywhere you go, you are now forced to use internet, including government services regardless if you have access or funds to pay for it. Again, telecomms in Canada charge some of the highest rates.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

The original post was a query about how water, sewage, and trash was handled in America, and the assumption was that this was NOT handled or not handled well: “My assumption was that all this must apply in America too. Seems I was wrong.”

Escargot, could you please share with us why you assumed that? And did you mean at a national level? Or state level? Did you read this somewhere? Could you give us a source for this? Etc.

Size of problem: about 2 million Americans do not have access to safe drinking water or to safe sewage treatment at their homes.

So, this works out to 6/10 of 1% of the population. Of course poor people are over-represented. However, this means that almost everyone – 99.5% - has access.
Closing the Water Access Gap in the United States_DIGITAL.pdf (uswateralliance.org)

Background of governmental intervention:

The US is a geographically large country of 330 million citizens with a legal mandate – the US Constitution – directing a hands-off government of its citizens. The individual states and the many Indian reservations all have the power to make their own rules about many things. Millions of our citizens choose to live in small, ethnic/cultural communities, often in isolated, rural areas, and choose to not move to an urban or even small town area with established utilities.

The Navajo Reservation, the largest in the country, is self-governing and has a culture of living in geographic isolation. Their nation is divided into and governed by local chapter houses. The chapter houses have never been able to mandate sewage control – or the control of overpopulations of feral horses, too many cattle and sheep, and the livestock wandering loose on the roads. (The US Federal government typically gives $3-5 billion/year in aid to native Americans. In 2019, there were 2.8 million native Americans.) I stay on this reservation a few times a year and am aware of how these things actually play out in real life.

Laws:

The laws for water, sewer, and trash utilities are split between the Federal government, which establishes goals and minimum degree of safety, and the states which have the right to establish utilities following the Federal guidelines. The smaller governments, at the county, city, and township level, are responsible for their part as well. All new homes in the US which are built for others to live in are strictly inspected for proper codes regarding water, sewer, electric, etc.

Illegal homes are often built in isolated rural areas which do not follow codes. Dealing with the types of people who live in them is an ongoing public expense and frequently requires police intervention. Repeatedly.

For the Rancho Vista, Texas, residents with intestinal worms: the children do not wear shoes and play in yards with animal feces. I personally see this within 5 miles of my home in Arizona in Mexican-American communities (dogs, chickens, goats).

US population density: 36 persons/square KM; UK population density: 281 persons/square KM

The UK is almost 8 times as densely populated as the US. I have looked at the UK on google earth and the entire country is mostly either housing for people or farms (71%) to feed them. The geographic proximity of the population means that the cost of installing utilities is much less per household than in the US, because the homes are much closer together in the UK.

United States Population (2023) - Worldometer (worldometers.info)
U.K. Population (2023) - Worldometer (worldometers.info)
Agriculture in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

I would guess, but don’t know, that the situation in Canada is similar to that of the US. Many semi-autonomous native settlements, many ethnic/cultural communities of immigrants, etc.

I pay $100/month for internet connection and $60/month for cell phone.

So, fellow Forteans, how much would you be willing to have your taxes raised to ameliorate such situations for strangers?

 

[Kondoru]

Im sorry if you feel we are Anti-American.

(Im going to write you a PM as you requested but I am busy with assignments at the moment).

You can say what you like about Britain, our strange obsession with Royalty, and more to the point, what the US is up to.

 

[brownmane]

I do think, as @Endlessly Amazed has kind of mentioned, that the expanse of US and Canada does pose different problems re: accessibility vs cost in water, sanitation, utilities etc. We are both much larger geographically than Britain. Canada is much smaller in population than the US.

And, though we are close, both geographically and in political dealings, our government structures are quite different.

 

[ramonmercado]

Legionnaires’ disease is terrible. Even if it doesn't kill you, there's a long recovery time.

When I worked on the wards I came across several patients with it. One was a coach driver who'd contracted it at work.
He was prostrate and being tube-fed when I met him. Over a few weeks he improved to the stage of sitting up though he was still so weak he couldn't feed himself.

Eventually I was sent to tell him that he could have some solid food at last! Toast!
I had to cut it into tiny cubes and soak it in soup, and feed it to him in tiny amounts at a time, but he sportingly declared it was the best lunch he'd ever had.

Luckily he was only 40 and normally in excellent health so had a good start on it, and eventually went home and back to work.

Legionnaires' disease discovered on Bibby Stockholm barge. Obviously not properly deep cleaned beforehand,

Asylum seekers are being removed from the Bibby Stockholm barge in Dorset after Legionella bacteria was found in the water.

All of those on board are likely to be taken to new accommodation as a precautionary measure.

Immigration minister Robert Jenrick is understood to be chairing meetings about the situation.

Legionella bacteria, which is commonly found in water, can cause a serious type of lung infection known as Legionnaires' disease. None of those on the barge have shown signs of having the disease.

Routine testing of the water supply was initially carried out on 25 July but Sky News understands the results did not come back until 7 August, the same day that asylum seekers began to board the barge.

Further tests have been carried out and the government is awaiting the results - but questions have been raised as to what the government knew and when.

A Home Office spokesperson said the health and welfare those on board the vessel "is our utmost priority".

https://news.sky.com/story/asylum-s...arge-after-legionella-bacteria-found-12937904

 

[maximus otter]

Canada has agreed to pay C$2.8bn ($2.9bn; £1.68bn) to settle a class-action lawsuit seeking compensation for the loss of language and culture caused by its residential school system.


In recent years, Indigenous communities have found evidence of hundreds of mass unmarked graves on the grounds of former residential schools.

No human remains found 2 years after claims of ‘mass graves’ in Canada​

After two years of horror stories about the alleged mass graves of Indigenous children at residential schools across Canada, a series of recent excavations at suspected sites has turned up no human remains.

Some academics and politicians say it’s further evidence that the stories are unproven.

Minegoziibe Anishinabe, a group of indigenous people also known as Pine Creek First Nation, excavated 14 sites in the basement of Our Lady of Seven Sorrows Catholic Church near the Pine Creek Residential School in Manitoba during four weeks this summer.

The so-called “anomalies” were first detected using ground-penetrating radar, but on Aug. 18, Chief Derek Nepinak of remote Pine Creek Indian Reserve said no remains were found.

https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/

maximus otter

 

[escargot]

questions have been raised as to what the government knew and when.

I can smell the the buck singeing as it's passed at lightning speed.

 

[Kondoru]

The name `Pine creek` implies conifers which possibly means acid soil.

How long might a body survive in acid soil?

 

[Tunn11]

The name `Pine creek` implies conifers which possibly means acid soil.

How long might a body survive in acid soil?

I think acid soil generally delays decomposition. Certainly some damp acid conditions do, like peat bogs. However local conditions could vary in a small area. It seems the excavations were in a basement so dificult to know what the conditions were.

They seem to have found burials in cemeteries offering no proof of cause of death. Frankly what better way to dispose of bodies and easier if you don't have to provide proper documentation.

This sending of kids out to be"re educated" or settled elsewhere seems to have happened a lot. Didn't the same happen in Australia and weren't some British kids sent to Canada for adoption? Whatever misguided motivation prompted it, a barbaric idea

 

[Tigerhawk]

Legionnaires' disease discovered on Bibby Stockholm barge. Obviously not properly deep cleaned beforehand,

Asylum seekers are being removed from the Bibby Stockholm barge in Dorset after Legionella bacteria was found in the water.

All of those on board are likely to be taken to new accommodation as a precautionary measure.

Immigration minister Robert Jenrick is understood to be chairing meetings about the situation.

Legionella bacteria, which is commonly found in water, can cause a serious type of lung infection known as Legionnaires' disease. None of those on the barge have shown signs of having the disease.

Routine testing of the water supply was initially carried out on 25 July but Sky News understands the results did not come back until 7 August, the same day that asylum seekers began to board the barge.

Further tests have been carried out and the government is awaiting the results - but questions have been raised as to what the government knew and when.

A Home Office spokesperson said the health and welfare those on board the vessel "is our utmost priority".

https://news.sky.com/story/asylum-s...arge-after-legionella-bacteria-found-12937904

Britain should stop putting people they don't want to deal with onto boats and sending them elsewhere....

 

[Tunn11]

Britain should stop putting people they don't want to deal with onto boats and sending them elsewhere....

I think the Canadian and Australian examples (and it happened in the US as well) were attempts to "educate" the native population's children into the colonial religion and lifestyle, e.g. farming, English language, Christianity, etc. often whether they liked it or not; a sort of forced integration and also ignoring their own culture and language.

The British children were sent out IIRC to Australia and Canada as at the time those countries were looking to encourage immigration so "orphaned" children were sent out for "a better life". Again IIRC they were often children of unmarried mothers who didn't know what happened to their kids and like the Magdelaine girls in Ireland some ended up as little more than slaves. There have been a few films books etc. about their searches to find lost mothers/children.

Whether further abuses happened I don't know but they seem to be situations that would make it easier for abusers.

Asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and trafficked people are IMO different issues albeit with origins perhaps related to past history but which we'd better stay off of because as well as involving a lot of human misery we're also going to get into issues around organised crime and inevitably politics. Also, my fault, we're rather straying from public health

 

[escargot]

Here's a thing: was chatting with a pharmacist last night and she told me that threadworms are currently rife among both children and adults.
Thee's a public health issue we can get behind.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Here's a thing: was chatting with a pharmacist last night and she told me that threadworms are currently rife among both children and adults.
Thee's a public health issue we can get behind.

There's a public itch to do something, but whatever we do will barely scratch the surface.

 

[AnonyJ]

I'm guessing that modern sanitation, vaccinations and road markings+ 'cats eyes' have probably saved more human lives than modern medicine. Clean water and flushing toilets are (IMO) an amazing thing. Not very glamorous but there ya go!

 

[Tigerhawk]

Here's a thing: was chatting with a pharmacist last night and she told me that threadworms are currently rife among both children and adults.
There's a public health issue we can get behind.

Your posts are a cracking good read! No bottom of the barrel stuff from you!