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"Reality Quakes"

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NilesCalder

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Despite having enjoyed Robin Simmon's talk on Noah's Ark at Uncon I was more than a bit puzzled. Now I could mention Simmon's weak objectivity, his clandestine faith, reliance on third party evidence and (apparently) remote viewing, but none of this is what has me puzzled.

The photographs of the apparent structure on Arrat caught my imagination, even prior to the "artist's impression" overlays, but only enough for me to make a presumptive leap of thought.

What if the structure is a freestanding 'ship'? Then how in the name of Fort did it get all the way up that mountain? When Hancock spoke of the run off from the melting glaciers from the last ice age he mentioned that it scoured the land beneath it. Can anyone point me to images of such geological 'damage' caused by this run off, especially near Mt. Arrat.

Without such evidence I find it hard to believe that the Arrat 'Ark' was deposited by water, and so I must turn to other explainations. One which has always tickled my fancy is from the mind of professional roleplaying conspracy theorist Kenneth Hite, who's weekly column "Suppressed Transmisions" can be found online in the e-zine Pyramid. This theory, after which I have named this thread, considers the possibility that many anomalous archaeological discoveries are relics, or Pragmaclasts, of lost alternate realities which ours has replaced.

As the changes to reality, caused either by a meddling time traveler or a flaw in reality itself, the chages propagate from the eimicentre of the quake, editing reality both across space and time. The pragmaclasts (like our hypothetical Ark) exist both in our subconcious mythology (which prior to the quake was history) as well as more material evidence. Of ocurse the whole thing is a mind game on a large scale but what's the problem with that?

Unfortunatly the original articles are unavailable to non-subscribers of the e-zine and I'm forbidden to copy and paste em here, so you'll have to make due with my limited grasp of the concept.

Niles "any thoughts?" Calder
 
Sounds a bit too much like a theory that explains everything but predicts nothing testable. Ooparts might be evidence for it, but equally they might be evidence for many other theories too.

(I was almost tempted to mention a certain shaving device there, but that's against my religion!)

"Don't ask me, I live in 'ryn" rynner
 
Its all a bit Michael Moorcock, though, isn't it?

It seems like an idea I am so accustomed to in fiction that it couldn't possibly creep over into reality. Which is odd, when you think about it.
 
As I tried to point out in the first thread; the whole theory is a mind game and not a serious suggestion. I'm just interesting in exploring it and all related concepts with my Fortean Buddies.

I wasn't suggestion it was in anyway real (it just struck me as good an explaination as any others)!

Niles ":rolleyes:" Calder
 
Given that ancient priests were fairly money grubbing could it be that they built a ship on Ararat to attract worshipers/donors?

However back to the thread. such an idea could also explain anomalous artifacts found in mines, David Icke and why geology and archaeology show earth to have a greater age than the Creation.
 
Intaglio: you suggesting that David Icke is a pragmaclast?

Hmm... you may have a point there... like myself, he can hardly be from this reality! :D

Niles "Pragamaclast" Calder
 
Strangely enough, yesterday I finished reading "Red Mars" by Larry Niven (SF, for those who haven't heard of him :) )and it features, amongst other things, lots of time-travel, leading to alternative realities past and present (the 'horse' in the zoo has a horn, the whale is big and white and, when captured, had a dead seaman roped to it, etc. And I tumbled to Jack and the Beanstalk just before it was spelled out for the thickoes.....)

To get back on thread - if, in another reality, horses really did have a single horn, and a few ended up here (for whatever reason) - it's legend time!

Or an alternate Earth developed jet aircraft in pre-Columban times (for us), and one 'crossed over', maybe even temporarily, and it impressed a native goldsmith/jeweller so much that he made a model, which later turned up in Von Daniken's works (having been described as a 'bird-like' object by the local museum).

Or, following the earlier success in banging two rocks together, someone thought that banging two lumps of metal together really fast might make a BIG fire. Then they gave it to us....

And, for those who haven't heard, the Earth really was built in 4004 BC. God buried the fossils. What a sense of humour. :rolleyes:

Anyway, mind game or not, this could be fun......

(Rynner, the shaving device is useful, but a lot of fun can be had by leaving it at home occasionaly - and, of course, sometimes it's just a metaphorical blunt instrument!)
 
Going up on a mountain and building a ship sounds like a bit much. And then you would also expect them to do guided tours, how else would they have earned the money on it.
 
Niles, the word pragmaclast, wonderful! :cool: I hope you invented it so in dictionaries it can have your name attached.

There are times when I wonder if "reality" is quite as immutable as we imagine. I do not mean that the earth was flat once upon a time, more that small changes happen almost unnoticed. There have been other threads about vanishing trees, lost personal items etc.

Xantic, why build a boat-like temple on top of a mountain? Why build Chartres in the middle of a marsh? There are other examples.
 
DerekH said:
And, for those who haven't heard, the Earth really was built in 4004 BC. God buried the fossils. What a sense of humour.
Click to expand...

Sounds a litle like the esteemed Mr Pratchett's "Strata" , where star travelling humans discover strata making machines & begin to construct their own historical "realities" & creations on far planets......
 
intaglio said:
Niles, the word pragmaclast, wonderful! :cool: I hope you invented it so in dictionaries it can have your name attached.
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Actually it was coined by Ken Hite, but everytime it's used elsewhere... :)

Niles "witty quotes wanted" Calder
 
"It seems like an idea I am so accustomed to in fiction that it couldn't possibly creep over into reality."

You should try reading H.P. Lovecraft. Brrrrr....

Is the Larry Niven the one where a time traveller goes back from the future to what he thinks is our time, but discovers humans descended not from apes but from dogs, and using homo erectus as "guard apes"? He then finds himself turning into a "troll" (homo erectus), and huriedly escapes back to his own future time, but the canine-human girl comes with him... and when he gets back he finds he is physically human again, but she has turned into a dog! Weird, but kind of logical...
 
I used to dig as a vounteer, years ago. There was so much guess work and interpretation involved, I began to wonder if there wasn't a sort of quantum event taking place.

Schrodinger cat-like, several different realities, or quantum states, were in existence at the same time. They existed in a cloud of uncertainty which was colapsed in to a stable state by digging and by the expectations of the archaeologist.

People did sometimes find things quite surprisingly close to their original guesses, however unlikely.
 
You should try reading Mr Pratchett's 'The Time Thief', if you haven't done so already.

Sam
 
Ravenbait said:
You should try reading Mr Pratchett's 'The Time Thief', if you haven't done so already.

Sam
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Isn't that "The Thief of Time". Sorry to be pedantic. A great book.

Interesting proposition, Niles. And maybe not as preposterous as it sounds at first. There are plenty of examples of things being found in geological strata which are anachronistic. And let's face it, if our leading physicists can't agree on an acceptable "reality" theory then that leaves lots of scope for conjecture. And to be honest that's what most orthodox scientific theories are based on - scant evidence and heaps of conjecture.
I remember reading years ago about cave paintings of men in suits and trilbys. Can't remember where they were. Maybe they were the executives who commissioned the Ark Temple!
 
Goldstein said:
Is the Larry Niven the one where ......
Click to expand...

No, but part of the same series, I think.

(Sorry, I just noticed your post.....)
 
I have wondered if we live across several realities at once. Perhaps what we experience is a "vector" of several similar universes. This could explain why some times things don't seem to be quite consistant. It could explain an awful lot of supernatural phonomena.
 
Austen, this echoes some of the ideas I was just reading in a link I posted on the EVP thread.

It also included the idea that consciousness can rebuild history, to a certain extent, for its own benefit.

Heavy stuff!
 
I would take anything Hancock say's with a grain of salt. Having read most of his number one debunker Prof. Sidney James's of the University of Strasbourg's learned papers on the subject published in all of the most reputable journals I find it exceedingly difficult to take Tony Hancock's ravings seriously.
 
The Fireclown said:
I would take anything Hancock say's with a grain of salt. Having read most of his number one debunker Prof. Sidney James's of the University of Strasbourg's learned papers on the subject published in all of the most reputable journals I find it exceedingly difficult to take Tony Hancock's ravings seriously.
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I used to love his half hour talks though, and Prof, Sidney James...carry on debunking.
 
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