Reincarnation

Skrymr

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Someone close to me died suddenly some years ago, causing me, my family and our friends huge grief. A couple of years ago I had a very vivid dream about him.

He walked in, looking well; seemed to be about the age'd he'd be then, rather than his age when he died.

I greeted him warmly and asked if he was staying. He didn't speak but smiled and I felt he would like to stay but couldn't.

I said, 'So if you can't stay now, can you come back? As a baby? You could do that, couldn't you?'

He indicated a screen, like a TV or computer, which was showing a very simple black and white line-animation of a pond. There was a waterlily on it.

A fish swam across the pond and a small animal jumped in, like a frog or newt. I saw the ripples and heard 'The next baby born into the family will be me.'

I thought, 'I'm dreaming this but it's OK!' and drifted happily awake.

The lily pond reminded me of a nephew who has a child called Lily. He has several sons too, and I thought his family was probably complete.

Wrong! His wife must have conceived around the time I had the dream. They are wonderful parents and their latest son has now just turned one.

I haven't met him yet. When I do, maybe he'll recognise me. Just thinking he's come back is a comfort even if it IS woo rubbish. Who knows anyway?

In the various Heathen religions there's a belief in reincarnation in the family line
 

escargot

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In the various Heathen religions there's a belief in reincarnation in the family line
Not just Heathens. I've known perfectly conventional Protestants who've believed that.

My old dear's former boss Margaret lost a son in a road accident, aged about 5. When her daughter grew up and had a son of her own some psychic told her that this boy was actually her late son reborn. She completely believed it.

As I say, who knows?
 

Skrymr

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Not just Heathens. I've known perfectly conventional Protestants who've believed that.

My old dear's former boss Margaret lost a son in a road accident, aged about 5. When her daughter grew up and had a son of her own some psychic told her that this boy was actually her late son reborn. She completely believed it.

As I say, who knows?
Ah I didn't know that! Funny how the belief has been around for millennia and across different religions
 

Jacket_Potato

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Several years ago when my boyfriend's niece was little, she was playing with some toys and out of the blue looked at me and said 'when i was your age, i used to take him to school and then go to work' (gesturing to her mother's then husband). It startled me and i asked where she worked & she said matter of fact 'the post office', and then she was off & playing with some other toy. Her use of the past tense through me off ('when i was your age'); i was about 26 and i think she was 5 or 6 or so. I no longer have anything to do with that family, but that in particular stuck in my head & i thought it was very interesting
 

sherbetbizarre

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To kill some time this lunchtime, I popped into the library and, as usual, gravitated towards the Fortean section. I browsed a book, which included the Carl Edon case in some detail.
If the facts of the case are as described, then it certainly is compelling.
The author prefixed the account with some details of experiments into epigenetics (inherited memories), which suggest that the offspring of mice, even two generations removed, can "remember" their grandparents having been trained to associate pain (mild electric shock) with a visual stimulus.
Not sure how relevant this is, given that Carl Edon wasn't (AFAIK) related to the wartime German aircrew.
Fascinating story nonetheless.
Yeah, Interesting story, with a tragic end...

https://paranormalglobe.com/2018/01...he-most-compelling-evidence-of-reincarnation/

 

AlchoPwn

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Doesn't really make any sense. Woman have been treated like crap for centuries, if woman in hiding were at the top surely they would aim to change things from the inside.
The notion that women have been treated like crap for centuries is highly debatable. In what societies? In what ways? For what cultural reasons? Most societies have gravitated to offering women a protected status so they can raise children in a measure of peace, as per the division of labor. The notion that this is treating women like crap is very new, as only western women got bored with the role of domestic goddess and wanted to go to work, and that was only possible because of the introduction of reliable contraceptives. Without contraceptives, the whole domestic goddess deal seems pretty sweet in most cultures.

As to transvestite women hiding at the top of the global hierarchy in male drag, but if that is the case, then they're incompetent, because the world's pretty much the same mess it always has been. I don't think selecting for genitals should be considered a driving force for social change, and to assume that one sex is somehow better than the other on some moral or intellectual level is a recipe for catastrophe.
 

Krepostnoi

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the world's pretty much the same mess it always has been. I don't think selecting for genitals should be considered a driving force for social change, and to assume that one sex is somehow better than the other on some moral or intellectual level is a recipe for catastrophe.
The second half of that first sentence pretty much proves the point in your second sentence, although perhaps it's not quite the one you thought you were making. Personally, I'd be right behind calls to ban men from any and all positions of power. We could hardly end up worse off, and - just whisper it - we even start doing better.
 

AlchoPwn

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The second half of that first sentence pretty much proves the point in your second sentence, although perhaps it's not quite the one you thought you were making. Personally, I'd be right behind calls to ban men from any and all positions of power. We could hardly end up worse off, and - just whisper it - we even start doing better.
On the contrary. You might be prepared to abnegate your responsibility for contributing to the future direction of your species politically on the basis of your sexual characteristics, but surely that just makes you a self loathing invertebrate who has bought into a ideological propaganda offensive that has only the flimsiest basis in evidence once examined. Not everyone is like you. On the other hand, I am glad you are so generously writing yourself out of the picture. That is responsible of you.
 
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Krepostnoi

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On the contrary. You might be prepared to abnegate your responsibility for contributing to the future direction of your species politically on the basis of your sexual characteristics, but surely that just makes you a self loathing invertebrate who has bought into a ideological propaganda offensive that has only the flimsiest basis in evidence once examined. Not everyone is like you. On the other hand, I am glad you are so generously writing yourself out of the picture. That is responsible of you.
Back on-topic, I see, alas, that we are no nearer to proving that Oscar Wilde has been reincarnated.
 

AlchoPwn

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Back on-topic, I see, alas, that we are no nearer to proving that Oscar Wilde has been reincarnated.
Well, as a male who thinks his opinion doesn't matter, why should anybody listen to you when you are so obvioulsy and glaringly correct about yourself? Q.E.D.
 

MorningAngel

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The notion that women have been treated like crap for centuries is highly debatable. In what societies? In what ways? For what cultural reasons? Most societies have gravitated to offering women a protected status so they can raise children in a measure of peace, as per the division of labor. The notion that this is treating women like crap is very new, as only western women got bored with the role of domestic goddess and wanted to go to work, and that was only possible because of the introduction of reliable contraceptives. Without contraceptives, the whole domestic goddess deal seems pretty sweet in most cultures.

As to transvestite women hiding at the top of the global hierarchy in male drag, but if that is the case, then they're incompetent, because the world's pretty much the same mess it always has been. I don't think selecting for genitals should be considered a driving force for social change, and to assume that one sex is somehow better than the other on some moral or intellectual level is a recipe for catastrophe.
Well how about Victorian England where a woman was nothing but a possession of her husband until the married woman’s act. Not to mention wife beating being seen as totally fine during the same time. I saw an interesting programme where it looks highly likely that there were women disciples who got written out of history. Also the matter of Mary Magdalene being made out to be a whore to discredit her. The fact that when it came to monarchs they would try anything not to be saddled with a woman and only settle on a queen as a last resort.

But no woman haven’t been treated like rubbish have they.
 

AlchoPwn

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Well how about Victorian England where a woman was nothing but a possession of her husband until the married woman’s act. Not to mention wife beating being seen as totally fine during the same time. I saw an interesting programme where it looks highly likely that there were women disciples who got written out of history. Also the matter of Mary Magdalene being made out to be a whore to discredit her. The fact that when it came to monarchs they would try anything not to be saddled with a woman and only settle on a queen as a last resort.

But no woman haven’t been treated like rubbish have they.
Victorian England was a single culture, and actually ruled by a woman at the time if I am not mistaken. We can only suspect that the Queen herself saw the need for disciplining women harshly, given that most of her staff would have been female at the time. On the other hand, consider the thousands of male lives wasted in brutal laboring conditions and on battlefronts of the period, because no-one generally does these days. Staying home and raising kids was a doddle by comparison. As for Mary Magdaline, given that Jesus is merely a myth relating to the cult of Serapis, how can I possibly worry about a fictional character's fictional female friend being called a whore? Now as to monarchs not wanting women to inherit their thrones, that was because a monarch was supposed to be able to endure the dangers and hardships of going to war, which women were socially not obliged to do, and certainly weren't trained for, or temperamentally suited to.
 

bob61

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Good Book

While the book The Airmen Who Would Not Die by John G. Fuller is not about reincarnation, it is about the apparent survival of the personality after death, and communication with the living, and it concerns air crashes and information pieced together from many unrelated sources that added up to something no one knew that was then proven.
i might try & pick up a copy , thanks
 

bob61

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i saw the american re-make of " the wicker man " ( 2006 ) with nicolas cage , primarily a remake of the british film of 1973 . the american film received hostile review's from film critics & was a financial flop & it seems the film has a cult following . i'll have to watch the 1973 british version of the film . there is also a 2011 film titled " the wicker tree " which contain's direct parallels & allusion's to the wicker man , the wicker tree is not a sequel or a remake but intended as a companion piece which explores the same themes .
 

bob61

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I come at the issue of Reincarnation as a gentle skeptic. As far as I am concerned, people having detailed memories of things and places they have never seen before is something I have experienced myself, and it is both odd and pretty cool. On the other hand, I would be loathed to suggest that a single answer such as Reincarnation covered all possible reasons for such a thing. Consider genetic memory with some sort of olfactory triggered response, or deja vu in reverse, or dream precognition posing as a lived experience. It's a license to riot. Any half-baked idea is as good as any other without reproducible results.

I note however that nobody has made a case for the Buddhist version of Reincarnation.

The Buddhist version of reincarnation differs substantially from the Hindu version in that it contains the doctrine of Annata. This is the notion that there is no permanent and underlying soul behind the experience. The notion is that with each life you take on "Karmic accretions of experience" that change who you are. Consider the following quote from "John Dies at the End":

"Let’s say you have an ax. Just a cheap one, from Home Depot. On one bitter winter day, you use said ax to behead a man. Don’t worry, the man was already dead. Or maybe you should worry, because you’re the one who shot him.
He had been a big, twitchy guy with veiny skin stretched over swollen biceps, a tattoo of a swastika on his tongue. Teeth filed into razor-sharp fangs, you know the type. And you’re chopping off his head because, even with eight bullet holes in him, you’re pretty sure he’s about to spring back to his feet and eat the look of terror right off your face. On the fol ow-through of the last swing, though, the handle of the ax snaps in a spray of splinters. You now have a broken ax. So, after a long night of looking for a place to dump the man and his head, you take a trip into town with your ax. You go to the hardware store, explaining away the dark reddish stains on the broken handle as barbecue sauce. You walk out with a brand new handle for your ax. The repaired ax sits undisturbed in your garage until the next spring when, on one rainy morning, you find in your kitchen a creature that appears to be a foot-long slug with a bulging egg sac on its tail. Its jaws bite one of your forks in half with what seems like very little effort. You grab your trusty ax and chop the thing into several pieces. On the last blow, however, the ax strikes a metal leg of the overturned kitchen table and chips out a notch right in the middle of the blade. Of course, a chipped head means yet another trip to the hardware store. They sell you a brand new head for your ax. As soon as you get home with your newly-headed ax, though, you meet the reanimated body of the guy you beheaded last year. He’s also got a new head, stitched on with what looks like plastic weed trimmer line, and it’s wearing that unique expression of “you’re the man who kil ed me last winter” resentment that one so rarely encounters in everyday life. You brandish your ax. The guy takes a long look at the weapon with his squishy, rotting eyes and in a gargly voice he screams, “That’s the same ax that slayed me!” Is he right?"


If you are a Buddhist, the answer is "yes" due to the doctrine of Annata. The idea being that if you have a bundle of sticks, and you take some away, and add others, it is the same pile, but if you remove all the sticks, then the pile ceases to exist. The same goes for your soul. Each lifetime you maintain certain appetites from former lives, but lose memories unless they are encoded into your appetites or environment in a way that allows their recall. Buddhas get the perk of enlightenment of recalling their past lives apparently btw. Any RPGer would regard that as a dump-load of free XP IRL if Buddhist Enlightenment is real...all those skills! I guess that makes me a spiritual materialist to covet that huh?

Where this idea gets interesting... really interesting for parapsychology... is that Buddhist reincarnation answers that nagging problem about ghosts that goes "So ghosts have no physical eyes, no retinas, no visual cortex, and no senses that we can physically identify, so how is it that they apparently can see people and interact with them?" Well, Annata tells us that they will have the Karmic accretion of a physical memory of vision that stays with them after death, and these Karmic sense accretions are why people probably reincarnate as people not insects most of the time. The more consumed you are by your appetites, and the more primitive your outlook, the more likely you are to have an animal rebirth. Just remember that a sense of humor is the main Karmic accretion that stops animal incarnations... that is not a joke btw... its Buddha's official statement on the matter.

Anyhow I think that is pretty accurate as a summary of Annata and Buddhist reincarnation, but please do your own research on the matter. I'm no expert.
thanks for the nightmare dude :wtf: , i'll be sleeping with a night light on tonight :axem:
 
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AlchoPwn

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[Mod Edit: This post has been left as a Warning to the Curious, Frideswide]

check this out an interesting read , reincarnation - SATAN'S SECOND BIGGEST LIE https://godonthe.net/evidence/manylife.htm :pitch:
An interesting read? Hardly! That was merely one-sided propaganda. But what can you expect from a hate cult like Christianity I suppose? Grief! Consider if you will as evidence that Christians hate and utterly fail to engage with Judaism, and have made a point of murdering its adherents, even though their whole superstitious belief system is based on Judaism's hand-me-downs. Is it any wonder that Christians are even more ignorant of non-mono religions?

Given that Christianity is schismatic to the point of schizophrenia, is it any wonder that some miniscule branches of ridiculous American micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity fail to acknowledge that some other branches of ridiculous US micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity accept the doctrine of reincarnation?

In fact reincarnation was an important tenet of many of the sects that have since been declared the "gnostic heretics", but you wouldn't expect some ignoramus like Rick Reinckens to have a clue about that, given his pseudo-Catholicism (more conspiracy theory than actual Catholicism). Have a read of the rest of his amateurish website, it's laughable too: ROFLink A true vindication of Darwinism, as it presents unequivocal evidence that primitive proto-humans still walk among us and have even done a basic HTML course.
 
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bob61

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An interesting read? Hardly! That was merely one-sided propaganda. But what can you expect from a hate cult like Christianity I suppose? Grief! Consider if you will as evidence that Christians hate and utterly fail to engage with Judaism, and have made a point of murdering its adherents, even though their whole superstitious belief system is based on Judaism's hand-me-downs. Is it any wonder that Christians are even more ignorant of non-mono religions?

Given that Christianity is schismatic to the point of schizophrenia, is it any wonder that some miniscule branches of ridiculous American micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity fail to acknowledge that some other branches of ridiculous US micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity accept the doctrine of reincarnation?

In fact reincarnation was an important tenet of many of the sects that have since been declared the "gnostic heretics", but you wouldn't expect some ignoramus like Rick Reinckens to have a clue about that, given his pseudo-Catholicism (more conspiracy theory than actual Catholicism). Have a read of the rest of his amateurish website, it's laughable too: ROFLink A true vindication of Darwinism, as it presents unequivocal evidence that primitive proto-humans still walk among us and have even done a basic HTML course.
thanks for the above link . your disdain of christian's & the christian faith is well noted .
 
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AlchoPwn

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[Mod Edit: This post has been left as a Warning to the Curious, Frideswide]

thanks for the above link . your disdain of christian"s & the christian faith is well noted .
Yes indeed. Christianity is a disgustingly hypocritical cult with a sea of blood on its hands. You know a tree by its fruit, and history attests to the fact that Christianity is extremely poisonous.
 
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PeteS

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What I have trouble coming to terms with AP is that hundreds of millions have died having followed the Christian faith. Can't all be wrong- or can they?
 

AlchoPwn

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What I have trouble coming to terms with AP is that hundreds of millions have died having followed the Christian faith. Can't all be wrong- or can they?
Well, certainly there have been hundreds of millions of people who have been Christians who have died, but the number of people who have been in the position to actively die for their faith is far smaller. As for them being wrong or right, I have a better question... The placebo effect is "powerful magic", but is it worth 10% of your income?
 

Comfortably Numb

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that would be ganesh ( hinduism ) & i wouldn't if i were you , otherwise this li'l fella will be waiting for ya :onick:
Well, if that's f*cked as well, what am I supposed to do then?

Your good self, or anyone else, suggest a religion which can beat the scientific facts... regarding origins of the universe for a starter...

Incidentally, still here bud... :)

Reminds myself of an American band... sure you've heard of them...

'You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...:

Que epic guitar... :band:
 
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Frideswide

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Yes indeed. Christianity is a disgustingly hypocritical cult with a sea of blood on its hands. You know a tree by its fruit, and history attests to the fact that Christianity is extremely poisonous.
@AlchoPwn

Reminder that you don't over generalise here - you can't say that about "christianity" any more than you can say it about Atheism, Wicca or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Your biases and intolerances are well know, express them in a way that follows the rules of the place!
 

AlchoPwn

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[Mod Edit: This post has been left as a Warning to the Curious, Frideswide]

@AlchoPwn Reminder that you don't over generalise here - you can't say that about "christianity" any more than you can say it about Atheism, Wicca or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Your biases and intolerances are well know, express them in a way that follows the rules of the place!
But hang on... the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to this day has no blood on its hands, as despite its claims of including ninjas and pirates, I don't think many actual ninjas or pirates have ever been actual members. As to Wicca, you would be hard pressed to find an example of a mass murder on any scale associated with that religion. Now Atheism is a bit more sticky, as for a start, it is not a religion, but as a belief it has been linked to Communism, which is indeed a very murderous belief system, but there have always been a large number of atheists who completely disavow Communism, and point to the cult of personality in Communism as proof that it is a form of erzatz religion but without a belief in transcendence, instead favoring materialism. In short, of those beliefs, atheism has the most to answer for, and atheism isn't a religion. I am only interested in being fair here.

If a religion has repeatedly and flagrantly allowed its teachings to be flouted and broken in the service of lust for power, and killed loads of people in the process, why can't we speak about it? Don't we have something of a public duty to do just that? As an atheist I am quite happy for people to criticise atheism, and I'm happy to defend it.

When people only pretend to hold values but do not practice the values that they state they believe in, the proper term for that is hypocrisy. Now most monotheist religions claim they are peaceful, but they have actually been anything but. So is the problem that every time I need to take issue with the rampant hypocrisy of any religious institution I need to litter the page with exact references to who murdered whom and when, running up a wall of text of the actual names of the human victims like a memorial wall? Should I include pictures of them too, where present?

At some point, given that history is completely clear on the point that monotheists have been on a murder spree for centuries, we should be able to generalize. Are you seriously going to tell me that I have somehow misused the term? Or are you going to tell me that a religious ideoilogy which has been the basis for around 150 million deaths over the course of its existence is somehow blameless and doesn't have a sea of blood on its hands, because factually speaking, there are 5.5 liters of blood in the human body and that means that Christianity has spilled approximately 217,941,900 gallons of blood. The Caspian sea at present is under or around 198 million gallons due to resource mismanagement, ergo, what I have said is factually correct to the best of my knowledge and the information I have been able to find. Now in Christianity's defense, they have been in existence since the beginning of what became known as the Docetist Sect in around 150 B.C., so those deaths have been racked up over about 2170 years, which means they have really only been responsible for a bit under 70,000 deaths per year since their beginnings, which is higher than the US gun related deaths for 2018 (40,000), and of course these figures would include the early Christian penchant for "suicide by Romans" or "martyrdom" as it was also known, as well as Christian on Christian killings over knotty theological issues like the now ignored question "what is the substance of God ?"

Shouldn't the truth form some sort of a defense? How can providing factual information be against the rules? Is freedom of speech really that dead in Britain that you fear to speak the truth? If so it is a disgrace and you should feel completely ashamed of your country.
 
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