• We have updated the guidelines regarding posting political content: please see the stickied thread on Website Issues.

Religious Beliefs About Reincarnation / Resurrection

HappyGlades

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
106
On the subject of reincarnation, there is also the ancient Celtic theory of the 'Otherworld'. Basically, when you died in this world, you were supposed to be reborn in a sort of parallel universe (the Otherworld). When you had lived your life and died in the Otherworld, you were reincarnated again in this world, so your soul or whatever was supposed to shuttle between the two universes.
 
Interestingly a mention of reincarnation appears in the Bible. I think Jesus says "Do you not recognise that John (the baptist) is Moses returned?"

Someone will correct me on this soon I expect.
 
Some also say it was a normal thing in the Bible, but was one of the things that got edited out later.
 
Fingers, Toes, and Counting Souls

Where reincarnation is generally accepted, say in India, it's noticed much more and confirmed much more frequently. Some blame wishful thinking and self-fulfilling perceptions, but others admit it could simply be that being hostile or blind to it makes it much harder to spot. Also, in India it's not taboo for a child to discuss such things ...

The notion that it was editied out of the xtian bible is interesting to me. Why would this have been done? Could it be another control device? If you get only one chance, you're much more likely to be panicked into toe-ing the line, whereas if you know it's a nearly endless cycle of learning, you might be much more forgiving of your own mistakes and those of others. ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am a devout Buddist and believe in reincarnation & I don't see why anyone should tell me that my beliefs are wrong. There is no scientific proof of the Christian/Muslim/Jewish afterlife beliefs either but no one is asking them to prove it.

I don't see how you can prove that reincarnation exists anyway. ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lecky Mouse - I've taken your cue and have begun a thread on What's Been Edited from the Xtian bible.

https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/whats-edited-from-the-xtian-bible.3159/

Zoe - Beliefs are neither right nor wrong. Some can be mistaken, as for example if you think you have gossamer wings and can fly, while others are a personal and private choice of philosophy, religion, or ethics, such as Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory.

However, some beliefs, such as reincarnation or, say, transubstantiation, are actually statements of alleged fact, observations about how reality works, and as such can and should be tested and figured out. Transubstantiation, for instance, is the idea that, during holy communion, the wafer becomes the actual flesh of Jesus and the wine his blood. True believers actually think they are eating "of" their "lord".

This can be tested. Scientists can ascertain whether there is any change brought about -- which would, incidentally, rearrange if not demolish all of the physics that has held together and proven itself over centuries and throughout observable reality.

When we see that no magical change comes about, it does nothing to alter the faith of the faithful in this miracle. It does, however, say something about belief and it being unrelated to reality per se.

Same with reincarnation. There is no way to disprove it, as one cannot prove a negative, but if one could PROVE it, think what an interesting array of changes would flow through the world. ...

It's the doubt that makes the faith. ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you get stuck as a ghost. . .

It's hard for me to reconcile (some) ghosts and reincarnation. The ghosts of those who died and still haunt a house, area or person seem to be in a very boring situation. Hardly anyone can see you, hardly anyone can hear you, and communication is only possible to those few who can see and hear you, but don't have a clue to who you are. (usually). Most people just glance sideways at you, and then tell themselves that they just saw a shadow out of the corner of their eye. ...

The way I reconcile ghosts to reincarnation is that ghosts are "stuck" and "need to move on". ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Buddhism accepts the existence of ghosts (pretas) being 'dead people' - it's just one of many different forms of existence alongside humans, demi-gods, gods, animals and hell-beings.

It's not a very nice state to be reborn in.
 
Just because the early church fathers removed all mention of reincarnation from the Bible at the Second Council of Constantinople, there is no reason to disbelieve this fact. As truth cannot be beat down and stifled, reincarnation will come up again and again and challenge you to disprove it- even if the bishops scream out till they are hoarse in the voice that there is no such thing as reincarnation. Wake up people!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
... You have to re-live your life over and over, until you finally get it "right".
Whatever "right" may be. I might need a few more goes....

That is basically what hinduism and buddhism says. You keep being stuck in the cycle of life and death, untill you finally get it right and ascend to nirvana instead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I come at the issue of Reincarnation as a gentle skeptic. As far as I am concerned, people having detailed memories of things and places they have never seen before is something I have experienced myself, and it is both odd and pretty cool. On the other hand, I would be loathed to suggest that a single answer such as Reincarnation covered all possible reasons for such a thing. Consider genetic memory with some sort of olfactory triggered response, or deja vu in reverse, or dream precognition posing as a lived experience. It's a license to riot. Any half-baked idea is as good as any other without reproducible results.

I note however that nobody has made a case for the Buddhist version of Reincarnation.

The Buddhist version of reincarnation differs substantially from the Hindu version in that it contains the doctrine of Annata. This is the notion that there is no permanent and underlying soul behind the experience. The notion is that with each life you take on "Karmic accretions of experience" that change who you are. Consider the following quote from "John Dies at the End":

"Let’s say you have an ax. Just a cheap one, from Home Depot. On one bitter winter day, you use said ax to behead a man. Don’t worry, the man was already dead. Or maybe you should worry, because you’re the one who shot him.
He had been a big, twitchy guy with veiny skin stretched over swollen biceps, a tattoo of a swastika on his tongue. Teeth filed into razor-sharp fangs, you know the type. And you’re chopping off his head because, even with eight bullet holes in him, you’re pretty sure he’s about to spring back to his feet and eat the look of terror right off your face. On the fol ow-through of the last swing, though, the handle of the ax snaps in a spray of splinters. You now have a broken ax. So, after a long night of looking for a place to dump the man and his head, you take a trip into town with your ax. You go to the hardware store, explaining away the dark reddish stains on the broken handle as barbecue sauce. You walk out with a brand new handle for your ax. The repaired ax sits undisturbed in your garage until the next spring when, on one rainy morning, you find in your kitchen a creature that appears to be a foot-long slug with a bulging egg sac on its tail. Its jaws bite one of your forks in half with what seems like very little effort. You grab your trusty ax and chop the thing into several pieces. On the last blow, however, the ax strikes a metal leg of the overturned kitchen table and chips out a notch right in the middle of the blade. Of course, a chipped head means yet another trip to the hardware store. They sell you a brand new head for your ax. As soon as you get home with your newly-headed ax, though, you meet the reanimated body of the guy you beheaded last year. He’s also got a new head, stitched on with what looks like plastic weed trimmer line, and it’s wearing that unique expression of “you’re the man who kil ed me last winter” resentment that one so rarely encounters in everyday life. You brandish your ax. The guy takes a long look at the weapon with his squishy, rotting eyes and in a gargly voice he screams, “That’s the same ax that slayed me!” Is he right?"

If you are a Buddhist, the answer is "yes" due to the doctrine of Annata. The idea being that if you have a bundle of sticks, and you take some away, and add others, it is the same pile, but if you remove all the sticks, then the pile ceases to exist. The same goes for your soul. Each lifetime you maintain certain appetites from former lives, but lose memories unless they are encoded into your appetites or environment in a way that allows their recall. Buddhas get the perk of enlightenment of recalling their past lives apparently btw. Any RPGer would regard that as a dump-load of free XP IRL if Buddhist Enlightenment is real...all those skills! I guess that makes me a spiritual materialist to covet that huh?

Where this idea gets interesting... really interesting for parapsychology... is that Buddhist reincarnation answers that nagging problem about ghosts that goes "So ghosts have no physical eyes, no retinas, no visual cortex, and no senses that we can physically identify, so how is it that they apparently can see people and interact with them?" Well, Annata tells us that they will have the Karmic accretion of a physical memory of vision that stays with them after death, and these Karmic sense accretions are why people probably reincarnate as people not insects most of the time. The more consumed you are by your appetites, and the more primitive your outlook, the more likely you are to have an animal rebirth. Just remember that a sense of humor is the main Karmic accretion that stops animal incarnations... that is not a joke btw... its Buddha's official statement on the matter.

Anyhow I think that is pretty accurate as a summary of Annata and Buddhist reincarnation, but please do your own research on the matter. I'm no expert.
 
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned before, this topic goes back a bit. But it’s interesting that Christianity does seem to believe in reincarnation way back before it was deemed inconvenient.
Hidden Beliefs Covered by the Church? Resurrection and Reincarnation in Early Christianity

Is it possible that early Christians believed in reincarnation? Although some may find this idea unbelievable, several Christian sources (including the Bible) suggest that many centuries ago, it was common to believe that one does not come to Earth just once, but various times. ...

In 1945, researchers discovered some early Judeo-Christian writings. Two years later, the world heard about the Dead Sea Scrolls, the discovery which changed biblical history. The early Christians and Jews followed the teachings of Jesus - including the concept of resurrection. There are several examples of this found in ancient resources. ...

According to the first important father of the early Orthodox Church, Origen (185 – 254 AD), the soul exists before birth. He suggested that pre-existence was found in the Hebrew scriptures and the teachings of Jesus. ...

In the early medieval period, the doctrines of pre-existence and reincarnation only existed as Jesus’ secret teachings. In 553 AD this information was declared heresy at the Second Council of Constantinople. The Roman Church decided to destroy all the teachings which talked about it. The Catholic doctrine and the priests’ source of wealth could have been in danger if people believed that they would come back to life many times. The old knowledge faced the same fate as many ancient books by pre-Christian writers. The bishops were afraid of the knowledge which could prove that the institution of the Church wasn't the only option to bring “eternal life” to people. ...
https://www.ancient-origins.net/his...n-and-reincarnation-early-christianity-006320
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned before, this topic goes back a bit. But it’s interesting that Christianity does seem to believe in reincarnation way back before it was deemed inconvenient.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/his...n-and-reincarnation-early-christianity-006320
Long time since I heard that, often forgotten. I have a feeling Lethbridge mentions it.

If you take a cynical view, it's much easier to control people if they believe they only get 'one go' to avoid eternal damnation.
 
Someone close to me died suddenly some years ago, causing me, my family and our friends huge grief. A couple of years ago I had a very vivid dream about him.

He walked in, looking well; seemed to be about the age'd he'd be then, rather than his age when he died.

I greeted him warmly and asked if he was staying. He didn't speak but smiled and I felt he would like to stay but couldn't.

I said, 'So if you can't stay now, can you come back? As a baby? You could do that, couldn't you?'

He indicated a screen, like a TV or computer, which was showing a very simple black and white line-animation of a pond. There was a waterlily on it.

A fish swam across the pond and a small animal jumped in, like a frog or newt. I saw the ripples and heard 'The next baby born into the family will be me.'

I thought, 'I'm dreaming this but it's OK!' and drifted happily awake.


The lily pond reminded me of a nephew who has a child called Lily. He has several sons too, and I thought his family was probably complete.

Wrong! His wife must have conceived around the time I had the dream. They are wonderful parents and their latest son has now just turned one.

I haven't met him yet. When I do, maybe he'll recognise me. Just thinking he's come back is a comfort even if it IS woo rubbish. Who knows anyway?

In the various Heathen religions there's a belief in reincarnation in the family line
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the various Heathen religions there's a belief in reincarnation in the family line

Not just Heathens. I've known perfectly conventional Protestants who've believed that.

My old dear's former boss Margaret lost a son in a road accident, aged about 5. When her daughter grew up and had a son of her own some psychic told her that this boy was actually her late son reborn. She completely believed it.

As I say, who knows?
 
Not just Heathens. I've known perfectly conventional Protestants who've believed that.

My old dear's former boss Margaret lost a son in a road accident, aged about 5. When her daughter grew up and had a son of her own some psychic told her that this boy was actually her late son reborn. She completely believed it.

As I say, who knows?

Ah I didn't know that! Funny how the belief has been around for millennia and across different religions
 
check this out an interesting read , reincarnation - SATAN'S SECOND BIGGEST LIE https://godonthe.net/evidence/manylife.htm :pitch:

An interesting read? Hardly! That was merely one-sided propaganda. ...

Given that Christianity is schismatic to the point of schizophrenia, is it any wonder that some miniscule branches of ridiculous American micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity fail to acknowledge that some other branches of ridiculous US micro-sectarian-tax-dodge-Christianity accept the doctrine of reincarnation?

In fact reincarnation was an important tenet of many of the sects that have since been declared the "gnostic heretics", but you wouldn't expect some ignoramus like Rick Reinckens to have a clue about that, given his pseudo-Catholicism (more conspiracy theory than actual Catholicism). ...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
check this out an interesting read , reincarnation...
Is there not an inherent issue though....

How can you be reincarnated and still be resurrected from your grave. Would that not be confusing?
 
Reading on the internet, it seems people can go through several reincarnations until they resolve their unfinished business.

My problem with reincarnation is what you are going to come back as ?

Are you coming back as human or animal, or male or female, or plant?

I always can use money so I am hoping for a rich person.

Money is not evil but useful !
Reincarnation in the main comes from the Vedas. A huge library of books written 5000 years ago in India in Sanskrit.

In one book in particular, the Bhagavad Gita, it states that a persons consciousness at the time of death determines the next body. So if a man during his life time was completely obsessed with women and sex, the next life time he will probably be born as a woman so as he can enjoy a womans body as a woman.

Likewise if a person is obsessed with, for example, cats, then that person will get reborn as a cat. Sometime you can almost see this process at work with old people. They can start to look like their cherished dog or cat. As I understand it, the subtle body is starting to form the next body they will be born into.

A really degraded person can have their next body awarded to them by how they lived this lifetime. They can end up in the lower life forms or even in the insect or plant form of life.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In my faith (Judaism) we have a fair amount of writing about reincarnation.

A main theme is being reincarnated in order to finish tasks that were not completed in a previous lifetime, or to help someone else complete tasks they are meant to do.
 
same can be said of other faiths . millions have died in the faiths of islam , hinduism , buddhism , etc , etc ....... jesus says in john 14:2 " in my father's house are many mansion's : if it were not so , i would have told you . i go to prepare a place for you " . some people have claimed that it's a verse that proves god accepts people of all religions , if so ..... why would jesus then proclaim " i am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me " . i personally believe that the only way to eternal life is through jesus christ & none other .
Well, you, yourself quoted two bible quotes with disparate meanings. Don't you experience some cognitive dissoance with that? Cherry picking is the only way to make "sense" of any of the bible, you can't take a whole book or verse (complete sentence) and get what you want out of it, you have to cherry pick phrases and that can be done to claim anything you want.

There is even evidence of reincarnation in the bible "You knew me as..." was attributed to Jesus saying something about being here before as someone else. I can look it up or you can. Just to get back on topic.
 
Jesus , the son of God says

Hebrews 9:27 : " and as it is appointed unto men to ONCE die , but after this the judgment " .

reincarnation is a demonic lie , you get one-go around in life & that's it ..... no IF's , AND's or BUT's
 
Possibly the oldest known well documented religion - that of ancient Egypt, believed that humans only had one life on Earth and would then face judgement. Whether you were a slave or a pharaoh, your "ka" or soul would then either be reborn into a blessed afterlife, or would face utter annihilation.
The ancient Mesopotamian religion also preached that we only had one go at life.
 
Possibly the oldest known well documented religion - that of ancient Egypt, believed that humans only had one life on Earth and would then face judgement. Whether you were a slave or a pharaoh, your "ka" or soul would then either be reborn into a blessed afterlife, or would face utter annihilation.
The ancient Mesopotamian religion also preached that we only had one go at life.
That doesn't sound right to me. I seem to recall Egyptian belief in rebirth... I'll have to head back to my book pit when I get spare time.
 
That doesn't sound right to me. I seem to recall Egyptian belief in rebirth... I'll have to head back to my book pit when a get spare time.

Maybe it's an oversimplification, but my understanding was that, when a person died, the ancient Egyptians believed their soul would enter the underworld (Duat) and be weighed by Anubis. Based on kindly acts the person did whilst on Earth and their devotion to the gods, they would either achieve immortality in the afterworld, or be thrown to the crocodile-headed god to be devoured and erased from existence.

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/ex...s' attitude towards,after their life on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge...e entered the,order, truth, and righteousness.
 
Maybe it's an oversimplification, but my understanding was that, when a person died, the ancient Egyptians believed their soul would enter the underworld (Duat) and be weighed by Anubis. Based on kindly acts the person did whilst on Earth and their devotion to the gods, they would either achieve immortality in the afterworld, or be thrown to the crocodile-headed god to be devoured and erased from existence.

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/civil/egypt/egcr04e.html#:~:text=The ancient Egyptians' attitude towards,after their life on earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgement_(afterlife)#:~:text=Ancient Egypt,-A section of&text=Upon death, one entered the,order, truth, and righteousness.
I haven't yet commended my soul to God and dived into my book labyrinth yet, but a quick Google produced this:

Ancient Egyptian Afterlife Beliefs (Wikipedia)

The Egyptian concept of 'eternal life' was often seen as being reborn indefinitely. Therefore, the souls who had lived their life elegantly were guided to Osiris to be born again.
Cited to: Mojsov, Bojana (2001). "The Ancient Egyptian Underworld in the Tomb of Sety I: Sacred Books of Eternal Life". The Massachusetts Review. 42 (4): 489–506. JSTOR 25091798
 
Jesus , the son of God says

Hebrews 9:27 : " and as it is appointed unto men to ONCE die , but after this the judgment " .

reincarnation is a demonic lie , you get one-go around in life & that's it ..... no IF's , AND's or BUT's
Or are they the Grey Aliens ?
 
Jesus , the son of God says

Hebrews 9:27 : " and as it is appointed unto men to ONCE die , but after this the judgment " .

reincarnation is a demonic lie , you get one-go around in life & that's it ..... no IF's , AND's or BUT's
I read that differently to you. I read it as we die once, then are judged. In other words, after we die, we are judged.
 
I read that differently to you. I read it as we die once, then are judged. In other words, after we die, we are judged.
YES , we are judged after death

wether were judged immediately after death I just don't know ?
maybe we're " asleep " in the grave awaiting resurrection & judgment .
 
Back
Top